Peyton Manning Leaving the Colts, Part Deux

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    Re: Peyton Manning Leaving the Colts, Part Deux

    TP - Are you willing to say you will be surprised if Manning re-signs with the Colts?

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    Re: Peyton Manning Leaving the Colts, Part Deux

    What does Tom Condon have to do with Manning not signing with the Colts?

    If the colts were to make Manning the highest paid, what do you figure they will pay him per year?

    What makes you think Manning is prepared to leave beyond the fact that he hasn't signed? 

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    Re: Peyton Manning Leaving the Colts, Part Deux

    TP -

    But I don't see how being a hard nosed negotiator and leaving the colts are related?  Can't Condon be a tough negotiator and Manning stays with the colts?  And if you think Manning holds so much control, don't you ultimately think he also controls his agent?  Your point about Condon meaningless to the discussion in my opinion. 

    Some are suggesting (and I think you included) are suggesting that Manning will tie up too much cap space, but is 20 mill (your suggestion) really that much more than 18 mill in the grand scheme?  If the cap is 120 mill and annually rising, does 2 mill really hamstring the colts significantly more than 18 mill does the pats?

    As for turning down a contract during the season, maybe Manning was being sincere?  Maybe he really didn't want the distraction?  Maybe Manning understands that he already has more money than he is ever going to need, so the risk of injury wasn't of concern to him.  Manning was currently under contract.  The only thing a new contract would have done is extend his current deal and pay him a large signing bonus (like Brady).  So maybe Mannning could have gotten 30 million more this year than he was already being paid (assuming a 50 mill signing bonus).  If Manning had a career ending injury, then the colts would have cut him anyway and Manning would have been paid that additional bonus. 

    If Manning had been injured and it was a season ending injury, does anyone think with the way Brady came back that Manning wouldn't have accomplished the same?  So would a season ending injury really have hampered Manning's negotiating leverage all that much?  Its just my opinion, but I don't think so.  I believe Manning only had a signing bonus to risk (assuming a career ending injury).  He still would have had all of his leverage under a season ending injury.
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    Re: Peyton Manning Leaving the Colts, Part Deux

    RESPONSE: In previous posts, you stated that there was a chance that Manning wouldn't go for every red cent he could get...and that he might give the Colts a "hometown discount". That's a lot less likely to happen when Condon is involved in negotiations. Condon will demand top dollar, as well as a say in personnel and management decisions. If you can't see how a hard nosed guy like Condon will make getting a deal done far more difficult, it's because you're choosing to hide out in the corn fields.  
    I think what I said (and I could be wrong) that the colts asked for a little less so that they could go out and get FA's.  I then said that maybe Manning would be willing for a little influence.  As far as Condon is concerned, I think he will do whatever this particular client wants. 

    RESPONSE: Again, as I have stated on several occasions in previous posts, there's a reason why Manning chose not to accept a blank check extension offer during the season. He wants out of Hooterville.
    That's not an answer to my question.  Don't you think Manning controls his agent?  Beyond that, where did you ever get that Manning was written a blank check?  What is Hooterville?

    RESPONSE: Don't know about the cap ramifications. But, I do know that manning is a year older, and unhappy in Indy. The Pats were able to gget a deal done with Brady. But, the Colts couldn't with first using the excuse that the labor uncertainty prevented them from structuring a mega Manning deal. Yet, later they offer Peyton a blank check. What's up with that? Don't you think that Manning was peeved about that? I'm not sure that the Colts can win a SB as currently constructed...even assuming that Manning stays. So, why pay him $20mil. per season...and cede him power?
         As you know, NFL contracts are all about guaranteed money. The Pats guaranteed $48mil. of Brady's $72mil. extension. Let's say that Indy offers a 5 year, $100mil. extension. How much should be guaranteed? Two-thirds of Brady's money  was guaranteed. So...assuming that Manning seeks two-thirds of his money to be guaranteed, that would tie up approximately $67mil. over the next 5 years...whether Manning plays or not. Furthermore, do you think that Manning at age 37-40 will be worth $20mil. per season? 

    You know Manning is unhappy in Indy?  Where did he ever say that?  The pats did a deal with Brady before the season was done because he held their feet to the fire and created a public brouha through the media.  As I see it, Brady's hometown discount from the prior contract bought him nothing and he wasn't going to allow it again.  Add to that a season ending injury and Tom was going to get his money, or else.  Manning is in a significantly different and better position than Brady.  He has leverage.  He's demonstrated more success in the last contract.  He's healthy.  He's the face of the league. 

    As for getting a deal done, I'd say the colts, a small market team, are in a more difficult position than the pats, especially concerning the CBA.  the pats are one of the highest revenue producing teams in the league and they are a part of a group who wants less revenue sharing.  Should that actually happen (and it may), the colts will be put in an even tighter financial position.  Operating from a position of caution is wise for the colts.  I think Manning understands this.   

    As for turning down a contract during the season, maybe Manning was being sincere?  Maybe he really didn't want the distraction? 
    RESPONSE: If you believe this...I have some swamp land in Florida that I'd like to show you.
    Really?  I guess then you are 100% sold on the fact that Manning is leaving.  There is no other alternative, which also means if you are wrong, you just don't have much foresight.   

    RESPONSE: $30mil. buys a ton of corn...don't you think?
    Sure it does, but if you don't think Manning is set for life then you'll be the one buying that swampland. 

    RESPONSE: Surely you jest. Do you really believe that such a serious injury would have no affect on the Manning negotiation? Who would risk $20mil. per season, plus a huge amount of guaranteed money, on a gimp? Look what happened to Carson Palmer after his injury. Has he ever been the same? 
    Not jesting at all.  As I said, Manning is more than set for life.  Was being paid 20 mill in 2010, and didn't want the distraction of a contract negotiation amidst an historic season of injuries with his team.  Carson Palmer plays for a significantly worse franchise than either the colts or pats.  How would we ever know whether Palmer was the same given all of the changes that team makes every year.  I'd more likely compare Manning and Brady, two HOF QB's in stable successful franchises and multiple MVP winners.  Why would there be any reason to think otherwise?

    RESPONSE: Peyton wouldn't have anywhere near the leverage that he has now.
    Why not?  Brady proved he could come back.  Manning won an MVP the year he had 2 knee surgeries - one bursa, one infection.  Many other players have come back from injury and a QB doesn't need to be as mobile as other players.  And finally, what other QB options do the colts have?
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    Re: Peyton Manning Leaving the Colts, Part Deux

    Scratch the Panthers off the list of possible landing places. lol
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    Re: Peyton Manning Leaving the Colts, Part Deux

    RESPONSE: He's paid to advise...not to just do what Peyton wants. 
    In your own words - what a croc.  Please tell me and the board that you believe that if Manning told Condon to do an 18 mill/yr deal vs. a 20 mill/yr deal and Condon disagreed that Condon would put Manning in his place or walk away from the deal.  Tell us all you believe that. 

    RESPONSE: Again, Condon is paid to advise...not just to negotiate.
    I didn't ask that, and you've already said this, see above.  I asked, Do you think Manning controls his agent.  Please answer the question.

    RESPONSE: From Colt's management, who basically said that they'll do whatever it takes to sign him.
    "Basically" is not actually. You are being a little loose with your language TP.  They never said they would "basically" do whatever it takes to sign Manning.  They said they would make him the highest paid.  That is very different from your interpretation.     

    RESPONSE: a/k/a Indianapolis.
    You've got some weird language in that basement of yours.  Wasn't their a hooterville in Dr. Seuss? 

    RESPONSE: An observation. Judging by his failing to cut a deal, his apparent displeasure with coaching/management decisions,  and his willingness to risk injury to secure maximum leverage on the franchise...yes.
    Maybe you should qualify your comments when you first write them instead of having to backpedal so frequently. 

    RESPONSE: Come now, Dog(ggg). Is this the best you can do?...LOL!!! 
    Simple question TP - Do you know that he said he is unhappy in Indy?  Got a problem answering simple questions?  Just admit you are full of only speculation and sh*t and speculation.  

    RESPONSE: Nonsense. The media tried to make a big deal out of it...but Brady didn't.
    You are calling me out for nonsense??? TP, I have been waiting for anything but nonsense from you on this thread.  Someone in the Tom Brady posse went to Michael Silver.  The stir was created through Tom Brady's camp. 

    RESPONSE: Where's your proof on that? If that was the case, why didn't Brady choose to do what Manning did...and play out the season without an extension? Had he done that, he would have had maximum leverage on the Pats, and likely could have gotten even more money than he did. But...he didn't. Why? 
    Proof?  proof that his discount bought him nothing?  How many championships did the pats win on that discount?  Brady and Manning are 2 different people.  Brady's motivations are likely different than Manning's, but I figure that Brady was a little more desparate than Manning.  Brady took less money than manning which earned him nothing.  Brady had a season ending injury, was due only 6.5 mill in 2010 and wasn't about to go into his final season without a long term deal.  Manning's had no such issues and was being paid 20 million this year.  Very different situation

    RESPONSE: Now he is. Why do you think that he felt it was so important to gain maximum leverage on the Colts? Doesn't it increase his monetary of power demands? Plus...he'll be able to force his way out of Indy, if he wants to.
    He was before, too.  Since the beginning of their last contract Manning has accomplished more, has more money, is physically healthier (better knee).  I don't think Manning was interested in gaining maximum leverage.  I take him at his word. 

    RESPONSE: What difference does that make? He's still playing hard ball.
    He's doing no such thing.  The pats gave Brady a contract by the beginning of the season that he was willing to accept.  As far as I know, the colts did not offer one to Manning until his bye week.  If correct, by that time, Manning was focusing on football.  That has nothing to do with playing hardball.  Your speculations are outlandish at a minimum.

    RESPONSE: Can you be really sure of that? He's also past his prime.
    When did that occur?  Was it his 09 MVP season and Super Bowl appearance? 

    RESPONSE: That's arguable. Even if he is, what difference does that make? The league doesn't have to pay him. The Colts do.
    The league has a stake in Manning being on the football field.  They care about Manning just as they do Brady.  The difference is that Brady is under contract while Manning is not.  Manning's position is one of concern for the league right now. 

    RESPONSE: These are some of the reasons why it would be in the best interests of the franchise to trade him...not try to pay him. 
    That could be speculated, but the same could be said about Brady.  If Brady goes down again next year and can't come back, that contract is money down the drain. 

    RESPONSE: Indeed he does. It's one of the reasons why he wants out.
    BS - you wouldn't have thought of that in a million years.  As long as a reasonable CBA gets done, everything will be fine.

    RESPONSE: LOL!! You refuse to face the facts. The thought of your lover-boy leaving understandably frightens you. I'd say it's better than 50-50 he goes.
    The only facts that exist are that a deal wasn't done before the season and when offered one during the season, Manning said he didn't want the distraction.  Another fact is you are backpedaling again.  50/50?  If you believe 50/50 then you have to at least accept that when he said he didn't want the distraction he may have been sincere. 

    RESPONSE: Where's your evidence to show that he's such a philanthropist? He didn't give a home town discount last time...and he's given no indication of giving one now. Quite the opposite.
    Where did I say anything about philanthropy?  Are you stoned?  I said his being set for life (as well as the 2010 $20 mill payday) might have played a part in turning down the offer during the season.  As for giving a discount.  He's never said he would.  The club asked him to consider a reasonable contract so that they may sign players.  We've already been through this. 

    RESPONSE: Yeah...umm...yeah...uh huh, uh huh...LOL!!!
    Do you have evidence to the contrary?  I have Manning's own words. 

    RESPONSE: He's never seemed to fully recover, physically or psychologically, from his knee injury.
    That's your opinion.  The fact is Manning has not had either Brady or Palmer's injury.  By that alone, he is healthier than both. 

    I'd more likely compare Manning and Brady, two HOF QB's in stable successful franchises and multiple MVP winners.  Why would there be any reason to think otherwise?
    RESPONSE: No comparison here. Manning hasn't suffered the devastating knee injuries that both Brady and Palmer have. Brady showed he's back. Palmer never has.
    And yet as noted above Manning's had neither but your willing to speculate wildly that if he did, he'd be more like Palmer than Brady.  I predict the Dow will hit 20,000 in 2 years.  Our speculations have about the same merit. 

    RESPONSE: Brady's surgery was successful...and he was able to overcome his injury, both physically and psychologically. How would the Colts know if Peyton could, had he been hurt last year? They would be foolish to risk big money without knowing that he could return to form. Wouldn't you agree?
    If you were a GM, would you do anyone's contract based on a speculation of a season ending injury when no such thing had occurred in 11 years?  NFL contracts aren't fully guaranteed which is the protection teams have. 
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    Re: Peyton Manning Leaving the Colts, Part Deux

    With all the speculation, Manning will remain a Colt and retire as a Colt.
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    Re: Peyton Manning Leaving the Colts, Part Deux

    timmy - only time will tell, but while most think Manning will stay with Indy, T-Pat seems not to care that the boat he's riding in has more holes than a slice of swiss cheese.  LOL!!!!
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    Re: Peyton Manning Leaving the Colts, Part Deux

    As interesting as UD6 and TexasPat3 make this out to be, Condon does have a vested interest to how much money Manning receives. Mannign makes mroe Money = Condon making more money.

    This also helps Condon obtain and retain clients!

    So as much as the original offer was better than Brady's the key question here is not if Manning will be the highest paid, but when.

    The second key question may be which team signs Manning's check.

    The Colts could have presented a contract as highest paid, but also put in items that would not interest Manning to stay in Indy (coaches, playcalling, support players be darmned!). A big risk as Indy does not have a starting caliber back up.

    Then this could be an out for the Colts to say they gave him the best 'offer' he refuses, then he is 'franchised' and sold off to the highest bidder in draft pikcs, players, coaches... whatever

    The interesting point here is now much non-attention this is getting in the national media.
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    Re: Peyton Manning Leaving the Colts, Part Deux

    RESPONSE: Manning has already rejected such an offer. The Colts offered to make him the highest paid player in the game during the season. Yet, Peyton rejected it...choosing instead to play out the season without an extension...and risking injury. Surely he sought Condon's advice before doing so. That's what lawyers do, Dog(gggg). Their paid to advise, as well as represent.
    Do you think contracts just "happen".  They are complicated and must be reviewed and understood completely before accepting.  I am willing to believe that Manning gets significantly involved with his own contracts and a bye week is not really enough time to complete one.  Further, Manning is the consumate player who spends considerable time preparing.  Pats fans praise Belichick for not letting outside issues distract his work during the season.  Why not praise Manning in the same way for not wanting to be distracted during the season in the same way?  Must be those pats colored glasses you wear.  LOL. 

      RESPONSE: Again, Condon is paid to advise...not just to negotiate. I didn't ask that, and you've already said this, see above.  I asked, Do you think Manning controls his agent.  Please answer the question.
     RESPONSE: I have answered your question. Unfortunately, you didn't like my answer. Again, lawyers are paid to advise. Condon has obviously strategised with Peyton over his worth. If Peyton knew what he wanted from the get go, and how to get it...why pay Condon?
    Nonsense, You didn't answer it at all.  Do you think Manning controls his agent?  Its an easy answer.  yes or no?  Advising is one thing, but who controls the business relationship?  Is it Manning or Condon?  Who pays Condon? 

    RESPONSE: From Colt's management, who basically said that they'll do whatever it takes to sign him. "Basically" is not actually. You are being a little loose with your language TP.  They never said they would "basically" do whatever it takes to sign Manning.  They said they would make him the highest paid.  That is very different from your interpretation.
    RESPONSE: 1.) Irsay has indicated that the Colts will "break the bank" to keep Manning:;
    2.) Jim Irsay says that the Colts will keep Manning, regardless of the cost:
    3.) Colts have already made an offer which tops Brady's deal:">
    How does it feel to be proven wrong so often?
    LOL - you've got some problem there with making assumptions from things not said.  Nowhere did your articles say Manning was going to be given a blank check.  Nowhere did your articles say the colts would do "basically whatever it takes to sign him".  The colts said they would make Manning the highest paid player in the league.  Doing that doesn't come close to meaning the colts would do "whatever it takes" or give him a "blank check".  List TP, when you prove me wrong, we'll have a party.

    RESPONSE: Green Acres. Unlike you, I no longer read Dr. Suess books. 
    You must not have kids.  You are missing out, my friend.  Funny, the NFL thought enough of Indy (your Hooterville) to play a superbowl here.  How's that working out in Boston.  LOL!!!

    RESPONSE: Who's backpedaling? I'm not going to say that anything is 100% certain. But, I'd venture that Peyton going is better than 50/50. If he stays, it will only be because the Colts grossly overpaid him...and gave him the power that he seeks.
    You have been backpedaling since I challenged you.  You make big bold absolute statements until you are called on them, and then you use words like "observation and basically and phrases like 50/50."  Clearly you are not quite as certain as your big mouth would like you to be. 

    RESPONSE: Do you personally know Peyton...or would you just like to? Every opinion piece is based on educated guess based on the facts known. Why do you think that Peyton chose to risk injury, and pass on a better deal Brady got? How does that fit in with your whines about him "wishing to remain a Colt...give the team a home town discount...and that he's happy in Indy?
    So you really don't know whether or not Manning is happy?  Just stop trying to present your speculation as fact, and we'll be just fine. 

    RESPONSE: "Someone in the Brady posse"? Who is this "someone"? Where is it mentioned in Silver's article that "someone from Brady's posse" went to Silver?:  Or, is this another of your exaggerations, lies, and misrepresentations that you are famous for? 
         Silver is a media hack, who is biased against the Pats...judging from his "spygate" coverage. Why hasn't Silver penned a similar article on Peyton's situation? Why hasn't anyone in the media done so?  

    Here - try these  Read the mailbag pieces from silver.  or here: or here:

    RESPONSE: Here we go now, misdirecting the discussion. Answer my question, please. Why didn't Brady do what Manning has done, despite the alleged "growing disconnect" between he and the Pats? It would appear that there's a "growing disconnect" between Peyton and Colts' management?
    And you've had my answer a number of times: 
    1) Brady gave a discount before and it netted him nothing in terms of championships.
    2) Brady was only due 6.5 mill in 2010 vs. Manning's 20 mill.  Brady wanted to be paid.
    3) Brady was not going to play a final season without an extension given his season ending injury in 08. 
    4) not stated before - Brady knows the pats way of doing business.  No one is sacred.  If Brady were injured in 10 he could have been expected to get a cheap deal from the pats. 
    5) Manning on the other hand, made more money on his current deal, was due to be paid 20 mill in 2010, earned a championship on the contract, and had an assurance from the owner that he would be a colt and would be paid.  Very different motivations. 

    RESPONSE: The Pats had one stolen from them in 2006 by the refs in Indy. The officiating was so bad that the league felt it necessary to issue a "letter of apology". In 2007, the Pats went to the SB. In 2010, they finished with the league's best record. Their success was based in part on Brady giving a home town discount to help the team...unlike a certain prima-donna in Indy. 
    This is why pats fans get the spygate treatment.  Their wins were stolen.  LOL.  Still whining.  As for that letter, no one has seen it.  did you know that?  It was only reported by hobbs that he received a letter.  Why would the NFL send a letter only to a player and not the team?  The team never said they received a letter.  You know what I believe?  I believe there was no letter.  Doesn't pass the smell test.  Championships TPat.  Championships.  What championships did the pats win?  Funny how in the wake of 2 one and dones that pats fans have now begun to temper the grandstanding that previously came so easy and now find success in winning regular seasons. 

    RESPONSE: What? Where are you getting this from? Brady won three SBs in four years, between 2001-2004. Peyton won none...yet Peyton took every red cent he could get, while Brady worked with management. Brady's unselfishness and dedication to the team is the reason why he's been more successful that his horse-faced contemporary. Brady is more concerned with championships than individual stats, or MVP titles.
    See above and see below.  Since taking a discount Brady has won nothing whereas Manning didn't take a discount and won a championship and has been to 2 SB.  Stay on point here Tpat. 

    RESPONSE: What's your point? This thread, and this post, centered around the real possibility that Manning will walk. Stay on subject, please.
    You were the one bringing up Brady, LOL!!!!!!!!  I am only responding.  If you want the subject centered on Manning only, then keep it there.  TPat - Have you had your coffee yet?   LOL!!!!!!!!

    RESPONSE: Again...misdirecting the conversation. Why? Where's your proof that "Manning has done better than Brady"? If not for considerable help from the zebras in 2006, Manning would be without a championship. 
         You don't think that Manning was interested in gaining maximum leverage? Then, why did he pass on a better deal than Brady got, and risk being derailed by injury?
         Take him at his word? buy that BS that Peyton didn't want the distraction during the season? I still have that Florida swamp land to show you, pal. 

    How am I misdirecting?  You made an unprovable assumption that Manning wanted to gain Maximum leverage.  I disagreed with that assumption and said I take him at his word (which was that he didn't want a distraction during the season).  Since their last contracts, Manning has been to 2 SB's, won one, won an SB MVP, and 2 MVP's.  Brady has been to one SB, lost, and won 2 MVP's.  That tells me that Manning has been more successful.    I don't think Manning's reason for not doing a contract during the season was about gaining maximum leverage.  I've told you multiple times why I think Manning chose not to do a contract during the season.  Your problem is you've got a case of amnesia.  You keep asking the same question over and over and over and over again.  Do you have any other information from Manning or the colts that suggests or proves that his Manning's motivations for not doing a contract during the season are different than the reasons he gave?

    RESPONSE: Yeah, umm, yeah...uh huh. uh huh...LOL!!!
    Excellent response when you really have nothing better to say. LOL!!!!!

    RESPONSE: Several writers and former pro players thought that Manning had slipped some in 2010.
    I know Reggie Wayne said he found out that Manning was mortal.  Other than that, the colts fielded their worst oline (which was already suspect) in years and had to deal with injuries of every skill player including those that played.  Given a little better health and hopefully a little better line play, I think you'll see Manning back to his MVP form next year. 

    RESPONSE: And your point is?? What do you expect the league to do...have the Rules Committee ordain that Peyton remain a Colt for life? Set aside a league fund to help the Colts pay him whatever he seeks? LOL!!!  
    No, simply put, the league understands that there are players that transcend the league Manning and Brady are a couple of them.  Not having Manning under contract does not help the league's bargaining position, imo. 

    RESPONSE: The Pats chose to sign him. The Colts have also chosen to pay Peyton, and assume such risks. But, Peyton is playing hard he's already rejected an offer greater than what Brady got.  Why?
    As I noted, I believe the team did not make Manning an offer until the season and manning said he didn't want to be distracted by a complicated contract negotiation.  Timing is important if not everything.  As I noted in a previous post, I believe the colts did not make an offer during the offseason due to them being more financially concerned about the CBA issues than the pats. 

    RESPONSE: In your dreams. Wherever he signs, Peyton will be paid more than Brady. There's a reason why Peyton has chosen his course. He wants to squeeze management, and/or be able to force a trade.
    In my dreams?  LOL.  In my dreams, I could not have come up with the outlandish scenarios you have tpat.  maybe lay off the acid and your mind will work its way back to more reasonable and logical thinking.  Yes, Manning will be paid more than brady.  Do you have any proof that Manning chose not to sign during the season because, as you say, he wants to squeeze mgmt and/or force a trade? 

    RESPONSE: Only idiots like you deal in absolutes...such as "the Colts have had more injuries to more key players than any other team in NFL history"...LOL!! 
    LOL, In this thread, you only write in absolutes until you are called on it.  Guess your memory is selective LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

    If you believe 50/50 then you have to at least accept that when he said he didn't want the distraction he may have been sincere.
    RESPONSE: No, I do not. I maintain that he wanted maximum leverage on Indy to get the money he wants, and the power within the organization that he seeks. It's possible that the Colts would be foolish enough to bow to his demands. If they don't, Peyton will force his way out of Hooterville.  
    Sure you do.  You can "maintain" all you like, but again it is just speculation on your part that you have admitted is only 50/50.  At the very least you have to accept that its possible Manning was sincere and didn't want to be distracted with complicated contract negotiations during a very difficult season. 

    RESPONSE: What nonsense! LOL!!! Following your warped logic, if he's set for life and cares nothing about the money, why doesn't he take less money than Brady, to help the team? 
    Nonsense, how?  Who said he didn't care about Money.  I said he was already in the midst of earning 20 mill.  that's alot of money. He had assurances from the team that he would be paid.  he didn't want to be distracted.  he said so.  TP, no matter how you spin it.  no matter what you acid infused, caffeineless brain may conjur up, there is no way for you to dispute that Manning said he didn't want to be distracted during the season.  You can speculate all you like about the whys, but in the end you are left only his own comment.  That must really gnaw at you.  You so badly want trash Manning and the colts on this subject, but there are no facts to support your desire, so you wildly and irresponsibly speculate.  Shame on you TP. 

    RESPONSE: Indeed we have. Obviously, Peyton has no interest in taking this route. Don't you agree?
    I don't know what route Manning will take, but I think the contract the colts offer will be the highest.  I think the colts desire is to structure it favorably so that other players may be signed.  That may mean a back-loaded or level contract. 

    RESPONSE: How simplistic you are. That's like a defense attorney arguing to a jury to forget about the evidence produced, and find his client not guilty, because his client said he didn't do it! 
    But TP, you don't have any evidence.  You only have speculation.  I have Manning's words which are irrefutable and have yet to be contradicted.  an opposing attorney would never let a jury forget that very very very simple fact.  Simple is always better than complex when simple does its intended job. 

    RESPONSE: No...that's my opinion based on his lack of production. 
    I'd say that has something to do with his team as well.  Regardless, I'd still compare Manning and Brady vs. Manning and Palmer.  Of course, most of this discussion has been about Manning and Brady, but since Brady came back successfully from his surgery you really can't use him in this arguement so you bring a 3rd party.  pathetic. 

    RESPONSE: Again, misdirecting the conversation. What's your point? Is it that because Manning has never been seriously hurt before, that he can't possibly take a shot to his shoulder, or knee...that would end his career? Again, how simplistic you are!
    Not at all.  You brought in palmer from outer space because you could not use Brady as an example.  Who's misdirecting?  People die every day in cars.  Does that mean you should never drive.  Why speculate about the injury that hasn't happened?  Did the pats do their deal with Brady based his possibility of getting seriously hurt again?  I doubt it our he would not be an 18 mill per year player. 

    RESPONSE: What are you babbling about now?
    About your stupid comparison and speculations?  You suck on this thread TP. 

    RESPONSE: Where one sees a better economy and increase investment in the market, then it'sd reasonable to assume that the Dow will go up...isn't it?  Where Peyton has acted as he has, it's like-wise reasonable to assume that he wants to leave Indy, or play hardball to gain his demands...don't you think? It's called deductive reasoning.  
    Acted?  he said he didn't want the distraction of a complicated contract negotiation.  Have you lost your mind TP?  Reasonableness and your thoughts couldn't be further apart on this thread. 

    RESPONSE: If you were negotiating Peyton's deal, and had an offer making him the games' highest paid player, why would you turn it down...and risk an injury? Obviously...because you seek more in money and/or power, or want to force a trade. Wouldn't you agree?
    Oh jeez - contracts are complicated.  Now who's being simplistic?  You are probably one of those that believes a 5 year 100 million contract is good and should be signed without consideration.  What if the contract paid Manning 5 million per year for 4 years then 80 million in the last year and no signing bonus?  Is that a good deal for Manning?  No.  NFL contracts are not guaranteed.  Enough of the nonsense.
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Peyton Manning Leaving the Colts, Part Deux

    I expect him to remain a Colt.

    That said, he has to be at least a little tempted to test the waters, right? Not because of the money, because at this point he doesn't need it and any contract he signs with any team, including Indy, will fall within the same range, give or take a million or two per year.
    No, he has to be tempted to test the waters because: A)--Reggie Wayne is getting old and, even if ALL of his other targets are healthy in 2011, it's still not the Wayne-Harrison-Stokely-Clark-Edgerrin James galaxy of weapons he was surrounded with during his best years; B)--the Indy defense is the same old story, same old song and dance, every single year (they can't stop the run, they're OK against the pass, they rely heavily on Freeney and Mathis to pressure the QB in order to make things work and, come playoff time, that formula usually fails them); and C)--I agree with the Caldwell comments here (there's no way that Manning has the same confidence in Caldwell and his staff that he had in Dungy and the previous staff).

    Again, I do expect him to remain a Colt, however, he's getting old and his window for another championship is closing; and while some media and fans around here like to point out how "bad" Belichick's personnel decisions and drafting has been since 2005, Polian hasn't exactly been hitting too many high draft picks or other personnel moves out of the park recently either (maybe age is starting to catch up to him, too?).

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Peyton Manning Leaving the Colts, Part Deux

    hard right - pretty reasonable comments. 

    I don't think Manning will test the waters.  More than players, the structure of the org is set for manning and the offense is by and large his.  Why go somewhere else where you have to learn something new as well as the idiosyncracies of new players?

    As with the players specifically, the current crop of colts were expected to be good.  Gonzalez - 1st, Brown - 1st - Addai - 1st.  Injuries hurt the team badly last year.

    I agree with the caldwell comment.  Colts have kind of stuck themselves like IU did with Mike Davis - first year in they go to the championship and virtually hamstring themselves. 

    As a colts fan, I agree Polian has not hit well recently. 
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from brady-is-clutch. Show brady-is-clutch's posts

    Re: Peyton Manning Leaving the Colts, Part Deux

    you know where im from robbie, sorry but i do not have all day to blog because some of us have to work in the real world, god i wish a bus, car, truck, train, motorcycle would hit this tool bag-go to and you and your clot lovers can lick mannings *ut sack together, no one cares about manning here, get it you tool bag-now why dont you try getting a JOB and support your family instead of blogging all day about nothing no one knows about except the clot org and playtex himself, FYI NO ONE LIKES YOU HERE, get off the computer and try to get a job "slob knob" and just remember 3 RINGS (thats super bowl rings) is GREATER than 1 and tommy boy does not have a losing record in the $$$$$ games like your incest retarded hero does, hey i heard today that eli's syndrome is finally down, now maybe playtex will get his down next you pick 6 putz lover
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from brady-is-clutch. Show brady-is-clutch's posts

    Re: Peyton Manning Leaving the Colts, Part Deux

    and if manning was so great.............HE WOULD BE WEARING BRADYS RINGS!!

    if manning was so great...........HE WOULD HAVE MONTANA'S RINGS!!!

    right now he is just in trent dilfers class, or warner's, or mcmahon's, theisman's, doug williams, joe namath's, mark rypiens, you get it dont ya, THEY ONLY HAVE 1 RING!!
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