Philosophy...thats whats missing!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfaninsatx. Show patsfaninsatx's posts

    Philosophy...thats whats missing!

    OK, here is a link to some comments from D.Woody on how the philosophy has changed in NE.

    http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/index.php/2010/01/21/one-jet-says-new-england-used-to-be-what-we%e2%80%99re-like-and-links/

    I am no way saying that this Jests team compares to the early Pats, but what Im saying is that this team has gone so far from thier core its ridiculous.  BB whole career has been built off his defensive genius and ever since the AFC championship in 2006 this team hasnt been the same. 

    I will say that those 3 SB teams were a combination of Parcells Carroll's and BB draft choices and BB defensive genius.  Since then BB has yet to address his strenth.  Defense.  I will not go as far to say that he is being outmatched defensively, but I will say he has been outmatched personel wise.  I'm sure his guys are prepared every week for thier opponents, but they are just not good enough to get thier to make the plays.

    When he got to NE he had a great supporting cast and great players. Now until he is able to assemble and keep a staff together longer than 1yr then NE will continue to be what we have seen this year.

    I have been reading his book "The Education of a Coach" and I'm really starting to have a little more understanding how things are unfolding.  Now I can be completely off, but its just my observation.

    BB is known for defense and over the past few years this team has lived and died on the offense. 

    Thats gotta change!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Philosophy...thats whats missing!

    Nothing has changed philosophically.

    It's called talent.  The team got old and new guys have been and are being brought in.  This thing is down for the next two years.  It happens.  We'll still have a chance for the playoffs even though this is a rebuilding period for us.  Few teams can say that.

    Surprisingly, not many have picked up on the changes on defense from this year from last.  A new defensive backfield, new LBs and the trade of Seymour should have said something other than panic.  The old regime' has retired and it's time to move on and get young and bring in new talent.  It takes time to do this.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: Philosophy...thats whats missing!

    Gary how can you say nothing has changed in terms of philosophy? This team went from winning games becase of great D and great coaching to relying on the O to win games. Nothing has changed in terms of philosophy you say, we run a spread O, are you kidding me? You need to take another look cause your wwaaaayyy off!!! Yea the talent isnt there for our two-gap system, but thats because BB has suckd in terms of the draft and F/A. I love him as a coach, hes the best coach in terms of preparation and game day, but Ive been hammering these points for a long time now. He came into this job with most of the guys in place and did a great job at utilizing their skills, coming up with great game plans, and executing them. The move to the spread is a wonderful example of change in philosophy, and staying on the offensive side of the ball this team depends way too much on 12 and 81 putting points on the board. Thats another point Ive been killing this team about, we have ONE GUY, MOSS that puts 6 on the board. Compare that with our SB years and letting guys like Smith, Reddmond, and Dillion carry the load. Again, sorry man, but you cant say this team hasnt had a change in philosophy. And your point about talent is an obvi. one, but that still goes back to BB. Just look at the last couple of years in terms of the draft, look at the guys we could have had and how much they would have helped us. J-Charles at RB, he run, catch, block, return kicks, we couldnt have used him? How about getting Matthews and Maualuga/Laurinaitis, and thats just off the top of my head. Now imagine Charles in our backfield, this O looks alot better and how much pressure is off 12 and 81, not to mention our oline. And then you have two huge holes on D filled at ILB and OLB. We have more help stopping the run and our pass rush isnt a rumor. I argee with PATSFANINTX, I would take it a little farther though, as I did in this post. Philosophy and drafting and F/A are hurting this team, and one more thing I think the jest look alot like us from 2-2004. And something they have done recently that we should look at is trading up for a couple of studs. Take away Revis, Harris and Sanchez and this team is fishing just like us. Those are 3 of the 7-8 corp group of guys that make that team go. Sometimes their are guys worth the risk and money.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Philosophy...thats whats missing!

    Pasfaninsatx and ALL:

    ~Agreed with your assessment patsfaninsax...  In Belichick's defense (no pun), I believe his overall game strategy has been contingent on and as a result of league-wide-changes.  The phanton-PIs, no touch rule for QBs, 15 yard no touch for WRs, etc., etc., benefits a high-potent offensive strategy.  It makes for faster play, less defensive smash-mouth, and even smaller, yet quicker players at certain positions on the football field.  And I trully believe your critique here in it's purest form, Defense Wins Championships...and N.E. HAS gotten away from that mantra.  But I too believe, There are 2 core fallouts in BB's philosophy: 

    One, Bill Belichick is and has been experimenting defensively in order to counter and use these League changes... Certain things, like smaller, quicker CBs have imho NOT worked out well.  The end result being, Wasted Draft Picks, Time, and obviously the Diminished Results that come with toying with new things that do not pan out.  Two, Bill Belichick plays to his teams and players strengths, which is obviously a great talent.  Yet, again imho, Perhaps Belichick in noting these league-changes and recognizing the potency of his future h.o.f. QB, has been more singular in amassing receiving weapons (for instance) alone for Brady (or an equal team talent)...the fallout being within this example, something like Defense for instance can be forsaken, or perhaps that the running game can be forsaken.  It becomes hard to sense otherwise that a coach would NOT have some sort of at least nominal attitude of, "Brady can and always does come through in the end, So I just might be able to gamble just a little more on NOT drafting a stud talent, but taking a gamble on a prospect that could pay out larger dividends in the end or a lesser known prospect but one that better fits a new way I'm experimenting with some offensive or defensive schematic," OR at the very least perhaps have a, "Brady has the best pocket prescence in the NFL, so I don't trully need to overpay for an unbelievable but high-priced left tackle."  I know this sounds like heresy, but we expect more things from persons with greater abilities...the end result becomes that it's very natural to over-count and have over-expectations on the ones that have always yielded more.  Don't buy into that?  Well, What about a potential fallout being a more optimistic one...a, "Brady is a great QB, so let's cultivate this, and thus more surround our overall game-philosophy with getting and giving Brady more weapons for this offense (and subsequently therefore, end up somewhat short-changing the defensive side of the ball in FA or the Draft).  

    Again, RE: part of this theory, I'm certainly not saying BB doesn't do his very best for the team, But I question whether Brady's great skills give Belichick a free-ER reign to be able to try different systems and players that might not pan out, BUT could pan out very big if they DO work, OR IF Brady's great abilities allows Belichick free-ER reign to choose to let an overpriced but sorely needed player fall by the wayside just a tad more often, since N.E. will still manage, OR at the very least, Whether someone like Brady's skill-set gets counted on, allowing Belichick free-ER reign to forsake a certain player or positional spot for another player or spot we need elsewhere. 

    Thoughts ANYONE?


    AMENDMENT:
    ~
    In all, whether it be some large philosophical shift in his approach to winning games, a counter to the new and/or amended rules within the NFL, or some extended reflection of the several thoughts I made in my post from above-greater and/or lesser expectations on certain players, positions, defense or offense...The Key Aspect to ALL of this imho, and the summation we're searching for is BALANCE.  I trully believe that The Patriots during their Superbowl Runs, and for future SB Wins, NEED The Balance that they once were hallmarks of.  The Pats might not have blown people out ala 2007, BUT I liked the early years far better.  The finalty and end result to having this Balance was showcased in all aspects of The Patriots game...ball control offense, stingy tough defense, mistake free plays, NO overcompensation for certain Players, Strategies, Sides of the ball-defense, special teams, and/or offense, OVER and ABOVE another part, person, personell or stratagem. 

    ~AND The final tally of This Balance were things like Team-mentality; Wearing down of your opponents and ALWAYS being in an upperhanded position to win the game at the end (NO prevent D when ahead, NO huge deficits because no weak links); Not having to rely critically on a certain player-cog or a stringent game-system within your team (and then dying when the player's hurt or when someone counters your system very well); And FINALLY-Overall better abilities and versatility for playing and planning for opponents's strengths and weaknesses rather than playing, planning and therefore being a subject of your own strengths, weaknesses.

    ...There was ZERO great aspect or approach to these championship teams...and there was ZERO weak links.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Philosophy...thats whats missing!

    It's possible he has been trying to improve the defense, he just hasn't been able to do it. 

    I think the Defense peaked in 03 and since then they were getting older.  By 2006 they were starting to get slow but I don't think BB is as cold as people think.  He wanted to keep the players even though they were getting slower.  I think he planned to keep a few leaders around like Harrison, Bruschi, Seymour, Vrabel and then bring in younger guys to learn from them.  Then once he had Meriweather, Mayo and Wilfork to build for the future he filled the roster with youth.  That's where they're at now.  I don't think everything went as planned, he probably wanted a few more pieces in place but some picks and free agents didn't work out.  Personally, I think he planned to keep Seymour until his contract was up but when he got a offer for a 1st pick he had to take it.  Then I think he was left with a hole and wasn't able to get Jason Taylor, or anyone else to fill in and ended up with a weakness in that area.  The defense has some talent but they are not good enough to win a SB right now. 

    IMO, The good thing is the defense isn't just getting older, they are young and should get better from experience but there are some weaknesses on the line and CB that need to see improvement by next year for them to be a legitimate contender again.  We'll see what his philosophy is by what he does this offseason.  Both the offense and defense need work but I think he will focus on the defense in the draft.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: Philosophy...thats whats missing!

    The natural progression for a QB like 12 is to try and surround him with weapons, but with WHAT weapons? Moss is and has been my fav. player since he came in the league for many reasons, so I agree with addition of "the freak". The problem I have is, for such a smart guy and he is a genius, he failed to recognize this oline just isnt built to pass block as the key component to victory. As I said b4, I love adding Moss, but in 07' we had a dynamic O with multilple weapons, thus giving us multilple ways and guys to move and score. Now we have no respectable running game, so opposing teams are just teeing off on 12 and we only can put 6 on the board via 81. This year the play calling was horrendous, but even if we had Weis, Walsh, or Turner calling plays, we only have one guy that can consistently score. Teams were far to content with letting us have those bubble screens and short slants all day. Good news is their are guys out there that can help us today, Marshell and Denver are done, give up our first or second 2nd round pick and maybe a 4. Then spend the money, give him a 5 year deal and you have the best duo in the league for at least 2, I would say 4 more years. Why not spend the money on a 26 year old stud who was showed he can carry the load on O and produce like a top 5 rec. If your planning on keeping 12 your gonna need a real #1 after 81. Moss/Marshell/Edelman and Tate, grab a back with one of the 2 second rounders and go D in the first round. If your going to continue to try and win through the air then you will need a rec corp like that to reach the ultimate goal..SB.  And a tight end that actually performs the duties of a ...TIGHT END wouldnt hurt either, if its my call Watson has ran his last seem route for us. Philosophy has "mosdef" change, but as I said in the previous post above, BB had many of guys who brought us a couple SB titles and has done a poor job of restocking the talent and hasnt hit to many out of the park in F/A  / trade either.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: Philosophy...thats whats missing!

    One more thing that cannot be stated enough is the fact that we need another stud at the 5 tech. Without a stud or at least a very good player at DEND are backers will be running uphill all day long. I really think we need to address one side of the ball in the draft and the other in F/A. Maybe target Spikes and Odrick as our first two picks and try and get Marshell via trade. I dont think its a reach to try and get Spikes and Odrick in 1 and 2. Our pass rush is putrid, but teams made no secret that they were going to run and run on Sey's side. And when they did it looked like Mayo needed alot more help than what he got, no Tedy, Harrison, Vrabel and Sey is killing this D. Plus I dont not believe drafting a Hughes, Kindle etc in the first is smart at all and could hurt us for the next 5 years. This team needs so much help that the "best available" play can do nothing but help us. Guys like Spikes, Thomas and Odrick are guys that can come in today and help us at fs/ss Thomas is a ballhawk that can/will come up in tackle and likes doing so. Spikes can be plugged in at ILB, hes a monster ILB at 6 3' 255 that loves to hit, is always around the ball and can really diagnose a play, something Mayo needs help with. The importance of linebackers cant be overstated, their the most crucial part to a good/great D IMHO. I know everyone likes to reapeat the company line "it all starts up front" and its true to an extent, but backers make or break or D. Just look at the Saints success this year, it was all developed on manipulating linebackers, causing one minute of confusion for them and they had you beat. Thats something Ive heard very little of this year, Im curious if anyone else picked up or noticed something similar?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Philosophy...thats whats missing!

    Yep, Belichick has lost his philosophical approach to the game.  Sounds stupid doesn't it?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Philosophy...thats whats missing!

    Talented, physical and smart players with a win or die trying attitude is what's missing.

    I think the philosophy has to change as the game changes. N.E. has done the right thing loading offensive players around Brady.

    Three of the remaining playoff teams are similar to N.E. with high powered offenses. The difference is their defenses are a little better.

    I've said it before that N.E. is not that far behind the 'elite' teams. N.O. is the only team to really embarrass the Pats this season.

    The playoff game against the Ravens was a real head scratcher. Hopefully, that game was just an aberration, not the norm.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: Philosophy...thats whats missing!

    what's missing is talent and someone who knows how to evaluate talent. why can't BB draft a kid like reavis, or WRs like Gracon or Collie?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: Philosophy...thats whats missing!

    Obiv. the talent isnt there, but your a fool if you dont think we've got away from the running game that was critical throughout our SB run. Guys like Dill, Smith and even J.R. Reddmond who was a very underrated part of our success in one of those runs. As I said before its a natural progression to want to surround 12 with as many weapons as possible, but that doesnt just mean rec's. This team is in real need of a stud back for a couple reasons. 12 cant continue to take the pounding he has been of late and despite 07' this o-line just isnt built to pass block as much as they've been asked to. Having a guy like Jones from NYJETS would be perfect for this team and area. Im sorry, but if you really have been watching this team your kidding yourself if you dont think philosophy is a part of our problems. I agree with changing with the times, but only to an extent, running the football and stopping the run has and will always work, something you cant deny either. Look at the jets and saints this year, jets are built on that philosophy and the saints success is on O is IMHO soley based their running attack. They have always had the weapons on the outside, but their running game has opened that up more for everyone, S's need to be aware of their 3 headed monster not allowing them to cheat back and in the middle of the field. That running game also helps in killing the opposing backer which IMHO is the biggest reason they are where they are. The Saints have done a masterful job of manipulating and keeping backers guessing for a spilt second, just enough time for Brees to work in magic. One more thing, yes our talent isnt there, especially on D, we just didnt have the athletes and playmakers for our two-gap system this year. Same deal on the other side on the ball, but that still goes back to BB, drafting/F/A havent been close to what this team needs.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: Philosophy...thats whats missing!

    We need to hold this organization, front office, BB etc accountable in terms of the draft and F/A. Alot of our problems would have been filled or at least one couldnt help but think that. We could have had Charles in the second or thrid round two years ago, granted Im a fan, but the guy looks like an absolute stud. He can run up the middle and get the edge, I think he'll have at 2-3 years where he'll have 5-700 yards through the air and he can return some kicks, although I'd scrap that in a hurry if he's your featured back. Another area that hes getting better in is pass blocking, which isnt easy to do for a guy like Cassell,  who will sit back there all day and move around alot. And last year we could have filled holes at ILB/OLB in Matthews and either Maualuga and or Laurinaitis. All 3 have performed well this year, with Matthews standing out. Maualuga I thought played very good, but was hurt at times and Laurinaitis IMHO played very well and will be a great player maybe as early as next year. IMHO he has a little Zach Thomas and Bruschi in him. All 3 are just always around the ball no matter a dram, screen, etc that something that kills me about some I/MLB, or job doesnt end outside of 10-15 yards. Hey Ill admit when Im wrong, but I was screaming at Grady Little DURNING the game, not after. When things started to fall into place last draft I was hoping we would solidify huge holes in our D at O/ILB. We might get lucky and have another chance this year if Spikes and Odrick are there when we do pick.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfaninsatx. Show patsfaninsatx's posts

    Re: Philosophy...thats whats missing!

    yeah,  Indy has done a great job in the draft.  Thier Wr's and DB's are full of rookies and 2nd year players.  They look like they havnt skipped a beat.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from krismk. Show krismk's posts

    Re: Philosophy...thats whats missing!

    Not Philosophy, they are missing Continuity. Put the same guys on the field for 5 years, with the same coaches...whoa, they get it!

    That means they have to spend some money on THEIR OWN veterans, not bring in the shiny outside free-agent to solve their problems.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tcal2. Show Tcal2's posts

    Re: Philosophy...thats whats missing!

    There missing Play Makers.  Not one on Defense.
     

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