Pioli is overrated

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Pioli is overrated

    It cracks me up when I see player personell guys getting famous and getting large contracts, along with the power that comes with them. There was a time around here when Bobby Greir was thought of as a genious after the Terry Glen draft and Kraft gave him all the power the following year.

    Almost every life saving GM that has been hired the last 10 years has crashed and burned, because they didn't have the 2 things a GM needs, a QB and top of the line coach. This is what Pioli had and it's why he will fail like the rest in KC.

    In my opinion these guys are a dime a dozen. The draft is a total crap shoot. Look at some of the players this team has drafted over the years. Maroney,  Jackson, Bethel Johnson, and I could go on. Truth is you can do this with any team in the league. The only GM's I can think of that truly pick very well year in and year out is dare I say Bill Polian (and he has the QB). The Steelers organization and Bobby Beathard (Chargers 90's) 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    Curious... why are you dumping on Pioli?  Were you expecting the Chiefs, in one season, to win the SB?  Since they didn't, Pioli is now overrated?  Seems to me you are a disgruntled KC fan.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    In Response to Pioli is overrated:
    [QUOTE]This is what Pioli had and it's why he will fail like the rest in KC. In my opinion these guys are a dime a dozen. Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    Not if he's using the patriots model

    they went out and got some decent coordinators and once casselll has a line and some decent revievers they'llbe alright. they already have a better running back than the pats
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macrawn. Show Macrawn's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    I like the moves he has made in KC. I think he has put a lot in place to turn that organization around for the longer term. The offensive and defensive coordinators should have been signed by us. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    Watch what happens in KC. The Pats won here because of Brady and Bellicheck. It's about coaching and QB play. Pioli will be as right and wrong as anyone else when it comes to picking players. My point is, the GM doesn't have as much of an impact as they're given credit for. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    I'll bet if you gave Brady recievers like Bowe, and Chambers they would be league leaders. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    In Response to Re: Pioli is overrated:
    [QUOTE]Watch what happens in KC. The Pats won here because of Brady and Bellicheck. It's about coaching and QB play. Pioli will be as right and wrong as anyone else when it comes to picking players. My point is, the GM doesn't have as much of an impact as they're given credit for. 
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    The right personnel in place is the starting point. Understanding the coaching philosophy is part of that and then finding the players with the right skills and attributes that fit into the schemes follows. You can only coach-up players t a certain degree - if they aren't capable of handling what you need, then technique and execution can only go so far. 

    Look at Vinny Cerratto ex-GM of the Redskins. Great at finding and over-paying talented players, but horrible at finding players needed to do the job the coach wants.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated


    Look at Vinny Cerratto ex-GM of the Redskins. Great at finding and over-paying talented players, but horrible at finding players needed to do the job the coach wants.
     
    You make some good points, but lets say Vinny wasn't picking players for Steve Spurrier, Zorn, Schotenheimer, orJoe Gibbs. And lets say they actually had a QB that could cover up some of their mistakes. Would they be better?

    Ozzie Newsome is a guy I forgot to mention as a GM that has won consistently without top QB play and great coaching. The guy hits on just about all of his higher picks year in and year out.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    One of the big changes in the time frame that you are using is FA.  Most people failed to get a grab on it.  Jimmy Johnson is a great example.  Now that FA has been around a while a few have a handle it.  The Pats were one of the first ones.  You have to build through the draft.  FAs are fillers.   The Colts, Pats and Steelers got it early. 

    With ex-Pat front office scattered around the league more teams are getting it.  Rather than be held hostage by a key player they will let him walk even though they might have to wait a year or two to fix it.  They run the cap.  The cap doesn't run them. 

    Pioli will be successful because he has done this his whole career as a GM.  Guys like Pioli are not a dime a dozen and are precious and few still. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    Well, I guess if you're saying that Pioli didn't build an empire by himself....then, I'd say you were right.

    It take a mix of things; good: schemes, coaching, drafts, free agent signings, and luck.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfaninsatx. Show patsfaninsatx's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    Who do you think pushed the button for Tommy boy?

    Pioli...BB wanted whats his name???? exactly!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from alcondragon. Show alcondragon's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    In Response to Pioli is overrated:
    [QUOTE]It cracks me up when I see player personell guys getting famous and getting large contracts, along with the power that comes with them. There was a time around here when Bobby Greir was thought of as a genious after the Terry Glen draft and Kraft gave him all the power the following year. Almost every life saving GM that has been hired the last 10 years has crashed and burned, because they didn't have the 2 things a GM needs, a QB and top of the line coach. This is what Pioli had and it's why he will fail like the rest in KC. In my opinion these guys are a dime a dozen. The draft is a total crap shoot. Look at some of the players this team has drafted over the years. Maroney,  Jackson, Bethel Johnson, and I could go on. Truth is you can do this with any team in the league. The only GM's I can think of that truly pick very well year in and year out is dare I say Bill Polian (and he has the QB). The Steelers organization and Bobby Beathard (Chargers 90's) 
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]
    I definately disagree with you here.
    He is using a model that proved to be a winner, he has brought in people that are realated to a winning team system, and I say this to all, If Matt Cassel is given a good O-line, he will flourish. Not only is he a good pocket passer as proven with the Patriots, he can also scramble. This guy can and will be an all star if given the right people.
    Not only that but Pioli has the structure of the Big TUna and BB to fall back on. I give him 3 years and KC will be in the winning bracket once again.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    In Response to Re: Pioli is overrated:
    [QUOTE]Look at Vinny Cerratto ex-GM of the Redskins. Great at finding and over-paying talented players, but horrible at finding players needed to do the job the coach wants.   You make some good points, but lets say Vinny wasn't picking players for Steve Spurrier, Zorn, Schotenheimer, orJoe Gibbs. And lets say they actually had a QB that could cover up some of their mistakes. Would they be better? Ozzie Newsome is a guy I forgot to mention as a GM that has won consistently without top QB play and great coaching. The guy hits on just about all of his higher picks year in and year out.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    Jason Campbell is, to me, still unproven either way. He has not had a team around him, a consistent coaching staff or an offensive line. He has shown some flashes of being above a journeyman QB, but without the rest, I can't expect much from him. Cerrato (and lets be honest - he was mainly doing Danny's bidding) didn't even address the offensive line in the draft and brought in some broken FAs. I was OK with Kendall, but he only had a year or two left when they brought him in anyway.

    I just think Cerrato failed the team by getting personnel that looked good on paper, but had nothing to do with what they wanted to do as a team.


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    I thought Campbell showed promise initially but he realy hasn't improved. He was a first round pick and has all the skills you look for. I'm not a skins fan, but I think if I remember he's got a nice H-back (cooley) and a very underated runner in Portis. The reciever Moss I think has gone to a pro bowl. Unfortunatly these guys don't get alot of time to establish themselves, it's a win now league.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    I'm sorry, I can't look at the last 5 drafts he had here in NE and the one he had in KC and say that he is not over rated. In fact if you take away Brady we're not even talking about the guy. And if you say he drafted Brady then you would be disputing that deceased QB couch O'Brien scouted and pulled for him (in the 6th round no less).

    The players that panned out in the draft outside of top ten picks ( Mayo, Seymore) are to few in my opinion. I'll give you Mankins and Samual, but not Watson, Jackson, Maroney, Bethel Johnson, or Merriweather. I think you have to do better than that picking in the first or second round. Don't say that Merriweather was a hit either besause this guy misses more tackles and takes poor angles at least as many times a game as he does something good.
      
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tcal2. Show Tcal2's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    He certianly isn't thinking outside the box.

    "It's like deja vu all over again."

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    So if I look at 90% of the other teams drafts over the last five years I'll find that many teams have done about as poorly as he has? If this is true and I suspect your right, that means that 90% of the GM's in the league are as good as Pioli is. This would mean based on his salary and reputation that he is overrated. His last 5 drafts have produced almost no quality, look at his drafts going back to 04. There were some drafts in those years where you won't find one single player in the nfl, not one. If he had been even average the past 5 years I guarantee you we would not be trying to fill positions all across our roster. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    This is what Pioli did for KC last off season. Draft Tyson Jackson 3rd overall, 31 million guaranteed. Last season he had 29 tackles and no sacks, none. The third overall pick in the draft that weighs 290 lbs can't get one sack, most 300 pounders can trip over a doughnut once a year and fall on the QB. Gave up a high second rounder for a old linebacker and a QB that was threatend to be benched all season.

    His free agent additions were LB Monty Beisel (I'm serious) wr Terrance cooper, Te Tony Curtis (much better than Tony Gonzalez I'm sure) CB Travis DAniels, WR Bobby Engram (Maybe older than Pioli) C Eric Ghiaciuc, OG Mke Goff, LB Corey Mays, TE Sean Ryan ( Maybe he figured they might miss Gonzalez), LB Zach THomas (Because with age he'll fit into the 34 better than when he was younger). Even Belicheck couldn't get anything out of these guys and now we know who was behind the Monty Beisel experiment.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    In Response to Re: Pioli is overrated:
    [QUOTE]This is what Pioli did for KC last off season. Draft Tyson Jackson 3rd overall, 31 million guaranteed. Last season he had 29 tackles and no sacks, none. The third overall pick in the draft that weighs 290 lbs can't get one sack, most 300 pounders can trip over a doughnut once a year and fall on the QB. Gave up a high second rounder for a old linebacker and a QB that was threatend to be benched all season. His free agent additions were LB Monty Beisel (I'm serious) wr Terrance cooper, Te Tony Curtis (much better than Tony Gonzalez I'm sure) CB Travis DAniels, WR Bobby Engram (Maybe older than Pioli) C Eric Ghiaciuc, OG Mke Goff, LB Corey Mays, TE Sean Ryan ( Maybe he figured they might miss Gonzalez), LB Zach THomas (Because with age he'll fit into the 34 better than when he was younger). Even Belicheck couldn't get anything out of these guys and now we know who was behind the Monty Beisel experiment.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    Was Tyson Jackson that guy who projected as a great 3-4 end?  I heard he was supposed to be the next Seymour.  He's not doing too well?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    Tyson is the guy who maybe was supposed to be their Seymour, problem is he was a reach and it will cost this team financialy for years. No wonder why teams don't like drafting in the top 5 anymore.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    Pioli is a solid guy as far as I am concerned and as good as Polian is he has just one Superbowl Championship to show for a lot of good but not good enough efforts. Bobby Beathard did have some monster drafts didn't he?! 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patriothead22. Show Patriothead22's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    Pioli is building the cheifs up from ground zero up.

    He knows that you must start with the offensive and defensive line to have any success.  Matt Cassel is just a placeholder QB in my opinion.  Why get a great QB, but have him massacred by DEs?

    I see the Cheifs as a playoff contender in 2 years.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    - mthyrl

    You base your arguement on just the draft?.  Being a GM is so much more than that.  Building a team is getting a coaching staff together, scouting staff, FA, contract work and other things.  The GM brings in a philosophy on how to build a team and keep it competitive.  Very few do what Pioli did in NE.

    Not only has the coaching staff been picked clean but the front office has too.  This means something. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    I'm going to bow out on this one, all I'm saying is that he along with many of the GM's in the league get to much credit. In my opinion it's the coach that is the important piece and if you don't get lucky and have the franchise QB your toast. I'm not saying the guy is dog crap, he's made some good trades and decisions. I just don't think without Belicheck and Brady he  will make it. In my opinion he will fall by the wayside like so many of these guys. 
    Anyway it's been fun talking football with all of you this weekend, I don't get a chance to do it at work and the wife and kids aren't into it either.  
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBRULES23. Show BBRULES23's posts

    Re: Pioli is overrated

    I hate the Colts, but Polian is one of the best GM's at player talent evaluation in the history of the NFL.  Besides the Colts, he also built a Bills team with Jim Kelly and Co. that went to 4 Superbowls.  Until Pioli can build a championship team without Brady and BB, he isn't in the same league as Polian. 
     

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