Pioli says; " You can thank Tom"

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    Re: Pioli says;

    Brady did throw that post season pick against the Colts but it truly was a monumental defensive collapse that was the major factor in that loss IMO.

     
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    Re: Pioli says;

    Thank you Tom!

     
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    Re: Pioli says;

    Okay Russ...once again, we go from a thatta boy Brady post to Brady bashing.

    Lets ask a question Russ...yes, Brady and the offense should have scored more points in the last few playoff games...even without their number 1 weapon in Gronk. But, who is responsible for losing the game when the game comes down to the last series? The pats had the lead in several occasions, and, it only took a stop by the d to seal it. Whose fault is that? 

     
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    Re: Pioli says;

    Players have to take a little less to win, this isn't just true of Tom Brady, even though he has been the model employee for the Patriots and it's another reason he is the greatest. 

     
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    Re: Pioli says;

    If you are using that pick in 2006 to illustrate why we lost, it doesn't work. How big of a lead did we have going into halftime, and how many points did Gomer pile up in the 2nd half?

    you are right, the team wins and loses. I think so many point to the d partially to respond to your constant Brady bashing. And, because we seemingly haven't finished the rebuilding which goes back 5 years and has cost us tons of wasted draft picks and cap money to address and we still have glaring holes.

     
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    Re: Pioli says;

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    Have you seen one article talking about how poor Brady's last 3 AFC title games have been or his postseasons in general? No, you haven't. A little odd, isn't it? 

    I am the one who has brought that to the table to show that it absolutely is not just all on the D.

     



    Actually I have.  It's called Google search and it's found on the interwebs.

    I will continue to state that I really believe a lot of it has to do with two major factors..

    Coaching/Game planning and talent.

    The Patriots open up the offense all regular season long, they play to win.  When they hit the post season they get conservative with their game plans which seem to be geared more around playing to not lose.  And that isn't going to work when you play the better, more talented teams who are in the post season.  Did TFB make some mistakes... yes, but it's all on his shoulders.  The Pats coaching isn't giving him a lot to work with in those post season games, imo.

    If you take the past Patriots teams and sub Montana for TFB do you think Montana could have won those games with the team and game plans the Pats had?  I don't believe so.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Pioli says;

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    If you are using that pick in 2006 to illustrate why we lost, it doesn't work. How big of a lead did we have going into halftime, and how many points did Gomer pile up in the 2nd half?

    you are right, the team wins and loses. I think so many point to the d partially to respond to your constant Brady bashing. And, because we seemingly haven't finished the rebuilding which goes back 5 years and has cost us tons of wasted draft picks and cap money to address and we still have glaring holes.

     




    It was 21-6 at the half, so a 15 points lead which is 2 TDs.

     

    That lead wasn't as big as the media claimed.  Also, there were 2 calls that totally aided Indy in that game, so it's hard to go on the road and be against the refs, too.

    The "faceguarding" call on Hobbs was so bad, the NFL sent a letter to the Pats saying they called it wrong.

    The other was the phantom PI call on Troy Brown before half. There wasn't a replay shown.  That's how made up the call was. That's also a call they never, ever call.  NE punted, it allowed Indy to get a FG before half, where it was going to be at worst 24-3 before half, vs 21-6.

    Anyway, Indy's D adjusted to defendign the run from the shotgun, but our offense simply did nothing in that second half.

    The whole reason they scored their only TD/moved the ball into Indy's red zone? An Ellis Hobbs 80 yard kick off return.

    Go look at the drive charts.  One drive was 57 seconds!

    I referenced this game as one game of where our root problem lies in Elephant in the Room debates.

    This problem goes way back. It's like, if the shotgun gameplan doesn't work, he struggles.  I don't even think the shotgun base should be an option as the base offense anymore.

    I would only go it if trailing by a couple of scores or in the 2 minute or as a wrinkle. That's how failed it has become against good Ds.

    Not saying Indy's D was good in the 2006 season, but once our offense didn't adjust after INdy's D did, it sputtered for the entire 2nd half.




    Allowing 32 points in one half is 10 more points than most D's allow in a whole game.

    Hate to tell you but ST scores count as points (ask Flacco) as do pick 6's.

    It's called a TEAM effort which requires all three phases of the game.  IE:  Offenses score, ST's score and or contribute to good field position, Defenses make stops and can also score.

    2 out of three did their job in that game.

    Defensive fail for 7 years now!

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dreighver. Show dreighver's posts

    Re: Pioli says;

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    Have you seen one article talking about how poor Brady's last 3 AFC title games have been or his postseasons in general? No, you haven't. A little odd, isn't it? 

    I am the one who has brought that to the table to show that it absolutely is not just all on the D.

     



    Actually I have.  It's called Google search and it's found on the interwebs.

     

    I will continue to state that I really believe a lot of it has to do with two major factors..

    Coaching/Game planning and talent.

    The Patriots open up the offense all regular season long, they play to win.  When they hit the post season they get conservative with their game plans which seem to be geared more around playing to not lose.  And that isn't going to work when you play the better, more talented teams who are in the post season.  Did TFB make some mistakes... yes, but it's all on his shoulders.  The Pats coaching isn't giving him a lot to work with in those post season games, imo.

    If you take the past Patriots teams and sub Montana for TFB do you think Montana could have won those games with the team and game plans the Pats had?  I don't believe so.

     


    Yes, but why hasn't Mike Reiss, Felgie, Tony Mazz, etc, ANY person who follows the NFL and gets paid to analyze, not brought up this subpar Brady postseason problem and the fact it all happens in the shotgun spread base?

    Why is that I know the problems, but they don't?


    Dude, Brady is in on the gameplanning. His suggestions, wants, opinions, etc, are taken into account.

     

    Same with Gomer Manning. 

    These QBs basically run their own offenses and don't have to have OCs!  How do you not get this by now?  The coaches don't walk into the room to gameplan and act like Hitler. It's a reciprocal relationship.   BB, McDaniels and Brady all convene and put thoughts on a table, VERY LIKELY, all the thoughts meshing together in a similar fashion.

    9/10 times it works, but it's that 1 time where it doesn't where the QB still has to be held accountable.

    I hold BB, McDaniels and Brady accountable, but the execution is on Brady, not BB or McDaniels.  BB is nothing more than overseer of the offense.  I am not going to bash him exlusively because it's completely irrational to expect him to be nitpicking and micromanaging McDaniels and Brady all game long.

    All it takes is one INT, bad decision to flip  game in this era. It's not 1985, where you have 10 Haves and 20 Have Not franchises with no cap. So, that one INT that is so stupid and unnecessary is HUGE! Huge!

    That's not on BB! That's on Brady.

    If you seriously want to blame Tony Dungy for Gomer's meltdowns or now John Fox or BB every single time these QBs fail or play under the expected level, that's your perogative, but the intelligent fans know the score.

     




    No one is blaming Belichick everytime Brady throws an INT, but your year-long+ narrative that the offense is fundamentally broken, and that Belichick, who you yourself say is an "overseer" of the offense, chooses to do nothing at all to change this, is incredibly difficult to believe.

    Brady's ability to make adjustments at the L.O.S. has nothing to do with an offensive mindset. If Belichick does oversee the offense as you claim, and he has allowed this fundamentally flawed experiment to go on as long as it has, that's on Belichick; not Brady, not McDaniels.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Pioli says;

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    [quote]

    Yes, but why hasn't Mike Reiss, Felgie, Tony Mazz, etc, ANY person who follows the NFL and gets paid to analyze, not brought up this subpar Brady postseason problem and the fact it all happens in the shotgun spread base?

    Why is that I know the problems, but they don't?


    Dude, Brady is in on the gameplanning. His suggestions, wants, opinions, etc, are taken into account.

     

    Same with Gomer Manning. 

    These QBs basically run their own offenses and don't have to have OCs!  How do you not get this by now?  The coaches don't walk into the room to gameplan and act like Hitler. It's a reciprocal relationship.   BB, McDaniels and Brady all convene and put thoughts on a table, VERY LIKELY, all the thoughts meshing together in a similar fashion.

    9/10 times it works, but it's that 1 time where it doesn't where the QB still has to be held accountable.

    I hold BB, McDaniels and Brady accountable, but the execution is on Brady, not BB or McDaniels.  BB is nothing more than overseer of the offense.  I am not going to bash him exlusively because it's completely irrational to expect him to be nitpicking and micromanaging McDaniels and Brady all game long.

    All it takes is one INT, bad decision to flip  game in this era. It's not 1985, where you have 10 Haves and 20 Have Not franchises with no cap. So, that one INT that is so stupid and unnecessary is HUGE! Huge!

    That's not on BB! That's on Brady.

    If you seriously want to blame Tony Dungy for Gomer's meltdowns or now John Fox or BB every single time these QBs fail or play under the expected level, that's your perogative, but the intelligent fans know the score.

     

     

    [/quote]

     

    Dude, there are many reporters, analyists and retired players who have had negative columns, words about TFB's play in the playoffs. Are you living under a rock?? 

    But you or even them can't put it all on TFB.  THis article by Greg Bedard is pretty good..

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/01/27/tom-brady-isn-one-blame-for-patriots-loss/4EFlWCBszZCaUWOKVXke5M/story.html

    Also, I think John Fox made a really bad error against the Ravens.  With Manning playing QB, you go for the win and don't even take the game into OT.  Manning did come out and say he agreed with the call but really, he isn't going to throw his head coach under the bus on that one.

    I'm pretty sure BB has more input on the offense then just giving McD free rein over the offense or as you like to put it.. overseeing it.  Matter of fact I have seen BB get involved in the offense during the game, more then just overseeing it.

    It's BB responsibility to field a team that has the talent to win the big games.  Last I checked TFB tried to get involved with it by redoing his contract so he could, but as you see they are still lacking at some pretty important positions.

    This offense requires TFB to carry it on his shoulders, season after season.  It requires him to have a perfect game during the post season to win.  He needs more healthy, talented players.  He good, very good, even great but he isn't perfect.  No QB is or should be expected to be perfect to win time and time again. 

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dreighver. Show dreighver's posts

    Re: Pioli says;

    People seem to forget that if Talib doesn't get injured in the AFCCG, we probably win that going away. We've added offensive versatility by replacing Welker with Amendola, and replacing Lloyd with Jones and Jenkins, the first red-zone threat we've had in some time.

    Also, let's not forget that if Gronk was healthy, we probably win the AFCCG as well. With Ballard coming back, Hernandez can be moved around more and be more of a threat. Throw in the veteran presence of Adrian Wilson, and Arrington stictly playing in the slot, along with the second-year development of Jones, Hightower, and Dennard, and McCourty having a training-camp at FS, and this team will be one of the best in the league coming out of the gates.

    Add some quality throughout the draft, especially to the interior defensive-line, and there's no reason that this team shouldn't win the Super Bowl.

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Pioli says;

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    If you are using that pick in 2006 to illustrate why we lost, it doesn't work. How big of a lead did we have going into halftime, and how many points did Gomer pile up in the 2nd half?

    you are right, the team wins and loses. I think so many point to the d partially to respond to your constant Brady bashing. And, because we seemingly haven't finished the rebuilding which goes back 5 years and has cost us tons of wasted draft picks and cap money to address and we still have glaring holes.

     




    It was 21-6 at the half, so a 15 points lead which is 2 TDs.

     

    That lead wasn't as big as the media claimed.  Also, there were 2 calls that totally aided Indy in that game, so it's hard to go on the road and be against the refs, too.

    The "faceguarding" call on Hobbs was so bad, the NFL sent a letter to the Pats saying they called it wrong.

    The other was the phantom PI call on Troy Brown before half. There wasn't a replay shown.  That's how made up the call was. That's also a call they never, ever call.  NE punted, it allowed Indy to get a FG before half, where it was going to be at worst 24-3 before half, vs 21-6.

    Anyway, Indy's D adjusted to defendign the run from the shotgun, but our offense simply did nothing in that second half.

    The whole reason they scored their only TD/moved the ball into Indy's red zone? An Ellis Hobbs 80 yard kick off return.

    Go look at the drive charts.  One drive was 57 seconds!

    I referenced this game as one game of where our root problem lies in Elephant in the Room debates.

    This problem goes way back. It's like, if the shotgun gameplan doesn't work, he struggles.  I don't even think the shotgun base should be an option as the base offense anymore.

    I would only go it if trailing by a couple of scores or in the 2 minute or as a wrinkle. That's how failed it has become against good Ds.

    Not saying Indy's D was good in the 2006 season, but once our offense didn't adjust after INdy's D did, it sputtered for the entire 2nd half.

     




    Allowing 32 points in one half is 10 more points than most D's allow in a whole game.

     

    Hate to tell you but ST scores count as points (ask Flacco) as do pick 6's.

    It's called a TEAM effort which requires all three phases of the game.  IE:  Offenses score, ST's score and or contribute to good field position, Defenses make stops and can also score.

    2 out of three did their job in that game.

    Defensive fail for 7 years now!

     




    Stay out of this conversation. Your interjections ruin otherwise what is solid discussion.

     

    The D (and Troy Brown) bailed out Brady (3 INTs) the week before in San Diego.

     




    Stay out of the discussion that I started? 

    Tell you what.  You stay out of my threads with your constant TB bashing and BBBW.

    In fact you should probably abondon all threads with your agenda.

    Did the jets forum ban you?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Pioli says;

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:


    Yeah, BB does get involved. He calls timeouts and overrules. Yes. I never said anything otherwise, but you can't just put all the blame at the feet of BB in that area. That's ridiculous.

     

    BB is like a Major who is back off the front lines. He can see things from afar, but it's the lieutenants and seageants in the battle that are the first to execute and act.

    McDaniels is the lieutenant, Brady a sargeant.

    Make sense?  BB is on one leg talking to the D as McDaneils is calling in plays and Brady chooses to audible or go into a shotgun.

    BB is responsible for it all.  I get it. The buck stops with him, but to be fair, it's about the players too.

     



    I have seen BB get more involved then that on offense.  I have seen him tell OC to do different things.  I have seen him coach up both sides of the ball.  Have you not seen TFB standing talking with BB?  I don't think they are talking about what they did the night before.  And he should be more involved, the buck does stop with him. 

    Yes, of course the players are responsible too.  But they gotta have all the tools available to them.  They need solid game plans.  They need solid backup plans.  They need solid play calling.  They need solid talent beside them to help them execute.  It's a team sport, rememeber??

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Pioli says;

    I'm going to go out on a limb here Rusty and assume that the fact that this "problem" on offense has persisted for many years with multiple offensive staffs means that BB has given it his stamp of approval.

     
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    Re: Pioli says;

    In response to dreighver's comment:

    We've added offensive versatility by replacing Welker with Amendola, and replacing Lloyd with Jones and Jenkins, the first red-zone threat we've had in some time.



    What? Are you serious? Please show me where this is true.  Jenkins is a red-zone threat?  Says who?  He is a possession receiver and hasn't scored 4 or more TD's in a season since 2007.  I would take Lloyd over him any day.  Matter of fact, Jones and Jenkins might not even be on the roster opening day.  And to say this new receiving core is more versatily without even playing a single down for the Patriots??  Please show me the numbers that would even begin to show this.

     

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