Pitt can't match...unless

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Pitt can't match...unless

    The Pats offered Emmanuel Sanders a 1 year 2.5 million dollar contract to steal him from AFC rival Pittsburgh Steelers, but the ball is in Pittsburgh's court as they now have a chance to match the Pats offer. To retain Sanders, Pitt has to be willing to pay that 2.5 mill...

     

    Here's where the genius of Bill Belichick sets in, Pitt only has 1.9 million in free cap space. We'll know if Pitt wants Samuel or not, they'll have to cut someone or restructure someone's contract. 

     

    In other words...BB > Pitt...as usual.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Pitt can't match...unless

    In response to 49Patriots's comment:

    The Pats offered Emmanuel Sanders a 1 year 2.5 million dollar contract to steal him from AFC rival Pittsburgh Steelers, but the ball is in Pittsburgh's court as they now have a chance to match the Pats offer. To retain Sanders, Pitt has to be willing to pay that 2.5 mill...

     

    Here's where the genius of Bill Belichick sets in, Pitt only has 1.9 million in free cap space. We'll know if Pitt wants Samuel or not, they'll have to cut someone or restructure someone's contract. 

     

    In other words...BB > Pitt...as usual.



    this makes him a genius? sounds like simple math

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Pitt can't match...unless

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

    Pitt will not match. if they weren't willing to give Sanders a 2nd round tender at $2.025M they certainly won't be willing to match the Pats tender and pay him $2.5M. They will take the 3rd rounder and move on. The Patriots low ball tender going unmatched would give NE negotiating leverage on a long term deal. 

    I expect BB to trade his first pick in this month's draft atleast once. if team's begin jockying for those 2nd round QB's NE may be able to move the pick more than once. 

    BB can only trade out once. The Patriots draft at #29 they are already sitting in the cat bird seat. They could easily trade the #29 for a high 2nd round pick and maybe an additional pick maybe two if they get the right buyer. We can hope they have a deal in place for either this scenario or we can hope they have a deal in place for Mallett which would get them at least a 2nd round pick.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Pitt can't match...unless

    correct me if I am wrong, but because Pitt tendered Sanders isnt he currently on their cap count at $1.8, meaning if the did resign him, the cost would be an extra $700k, not $2.5M?

    I thought Werder was curious as to the Pats offer being that Pitt only had to extend another $700.

    Now, if I am Pitts, I let him walk and take the draft choice....

    I am curious as to the Pats desire for Sanders at $2.5 with Edelman signed and the numerous WR's available in rds 2 and 3...reading Bedard, Sanders doesnt seem worth the money or the draft choice imo.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pitt can't match...unless

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    correct me if I am wrong, but because Pitt tendered Sanders isnt he currently on their cap count at $1.8, meaning if the did resign him, the cost would be an extra $700k, not $2.5M?

    I thought Werder was curious as to the Pats offer being that Pitt only had to extend another $700.

    Now, if I am Pitts, I let him walk and take the draft choice....

    I am curious as to the Pats desire for Sanders at $2.5 with Edelman signed and the numerous WR's available in rds 2 and 3...reading Bedard, Sanders doesnt seem worth the money or the draft choice imo.



    You are right rkarp. Because they already tendered him the tender is already counted against the cap. But, you have to figure that they need space to sign draft picks. If they let Sanders walk they essentially double their cap space to a level where they can sign draft picks and get an extra 3rd where most draft experts agree the depth of the draft is between the 2nd and 3rd. Additionally their cap doesn't look great next year either so they could run into the problem they could lose him next year and get nothing back. Letting Sanders walk to the Pats gets them a valuable pick this year and gives them cap space relief to sign draft picks.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Pitt can't match...unless

    I am understanding they are in contract talks with BenR on an extension to lock him up for the next 7-8 years. I would also think Polamalo is an obvious restructure.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Pitt can't match...unless

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    correct me if I am wrong, but because Pitt tendered Sanders isnt he currently on their cap count at $1.8, meaning if the did resign him, the cost would be an extra $700k, not $2.5M?

    I thought Werder was curious as to the Pats offer being that Pitt only had to extend another $700.

    Now, if I am Pitts, I let him walk and take the draft choice....

    I am curious as to the Pats desire for Sanders at $2.5 with Edelman signed and the numerous WR's available in rds 2 and 3...reading Bedard, Sanders doesnt seem worth the money or the draft choice imo.



    Then why sign him to an offer sheet? They probably knew they would resign Edelman.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Pitt can't match...unless

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    correct me if I am wrong, but because Pitt tendered Sanders isnt he currently on their cap count at $1.8, meaning if the did resign him, the cost would be an extra $700k, not $2.5M?

    I thought Werder was curious as to the Pats offer being that Pitt only had to extend another $700.

    Now, if I am Pitts, I let him walk and take the draft choice....

    I am curious as to the Pats desire for Sanders at $2.5 with Edelman signed and the numerous WR's available in rds 2 and 3...reading Bedard, Sanders doesnt seem worth the money or the draft choice imo.

     



    You are right rkarp. Because they already tendered him the tender is already counted against the cap. But, you have to figure that they need space to sign draft picks. If they let Sanders walk they essentially double their cap space to a level where they can sign draft picks and get an extra 3rd where most draft experts agree the depth of the draft is between the 2nd and 3rd. Additionally their cap doesn't look great next year either so they could run into the problem they could lose him next year and get nothing back. Letting Sanders walk to the Pats gets them a valuable pick this year and gives them cap space relief to sign draft picks.

     



    +1

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pitt can't match...unless

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    I am understanding they are in contract talks with BenR on an extension to lock him up for the next 7-8 years. I would also think Polamalo is an obvious restructure.



    yep but they have until Monday to get them done which isn't a ton of time, esp if Polamalo and Big Ben are on vaca. Is it possible, yeah they could but the real question is do they want to? There's a reason they only put the 3rd tender on him and imo it's because his ceiling is a solid #2 which might make it hard to justify for Pit to match and not take the pick

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Pitt can't match...unless

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the rookis salaries dont have to be dealt with till something like june or July? Thats a lot of time to restructure or cut someone. Its not like we have them over a barrel in reality. The extra $700K will just keep them from signing anyone else till they get their checkbook in order. I wonder if we know someone their looking at signing, that would explain the minimal money extra on the tender.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pitt can't match...unless

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the rookis salaries dont have to be dealt with till something like june or July? Thats a lot of time to restructure or cut someone. Its not like we have them over a barrel in reality. The extra $700K will just keep them from signing anyone else till they get their checkbook in order. I wonder if we know someone their looking at signing, that would explain the minimal money extra on the tender.



    Sort of. Once drafted a rook min value is placed on the cap for the team until the rook signs. So, there is a little bit of a cap concern depending on the amount of picks you have but the full amount of ay contract doesn't take into effect until they are signed. Since rook mins are usually right around the top 51 contracts there really isn't much cap space needed for that place holder. However, you are greatly playing with fire if you don't have enough cap space saved before drafting players. There is no guarantee any player will restructure just so his money can be given to a rook and once the rook is drafted the team has to get the cap space or risk losing the player. So, this puts all the leverage into the agents/players hands. They could restructure of course but at that point they could demand more guaranteed money in an extension of a much bigger cap hit right down the road in that restructure which is very damaging in the follow up years. Additionally if a player decides not to restructure then the team is forced to cut whatever they can to get the cap space. Most of the time that means cutting starters as most teams cut the fat right before FA starts. It's kind of like putting money down on a new car expecting a bonus from your work then a week after you were suppose to get your bonus you are still waiting to hear from your boss about what's going on. Drafting players before having the cap space to sign them is extremely risky and could end up costing you huge in the end

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Pitt can't match...unless

    it alkso begs the question is Pitts making only a financial decision? Why arent the Pats looking at the WR's on the market and seeing for half the Sanders money they could get a stud in the draft. Is this an admission that they do not do a good job scouting/rating college WR's much prefering an NFL resume on WR's?

    I find it odd, the Pats of all teams, going after URFA for a 3rd rounder in such a deep WR draft...seems so un-Patriotic.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Pitt can't match...unless

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

     

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the rookis salaries dont have to be dealt with till something like june or July? Thats a lot of time to restructure or cut someone. Its not like we have them over a barrel in reality. The extra $700K will just keep them from signing anyone else till they get their checkbook in order. I wonder if we know someone their looking at signing, that would explain the minimal money extra on the tender.

     



    Sort of. Once drafted a rook min value is placed on the cap for the team until the rook signs. So, there is a little bit of a cap concern depending on the amount of picks you have but the full amount of ay contract doesn't take into effect until they are signed. Since rook mins are usually right around the top 51 contracts there really isn't much cap space needed for that place holder. However, you are greatly playing with fire if you don't have enough cap space saved before drafting players. There is no guarantee any player will restructure just so his money can be given to a rook and once the rook is drafted the team has to get the cap space or risk losing the player. So, this puts all the leverage into the agents/players hands. They could restructure of course but at that point they could demand more guaranteed money in an extension of a much bigger cap hit right down the road in that restructure which is very damaging in the follow up years. Additionally if a player decides not to restructure then the team is forced to cut whatever they can to get the cap space. Most of the time that means cutting starters as most teams cut the fat right before FA starts. It's kind of like putting money down on a new car expecting a bonus from your work then a week after you were suppose to get your bonus you are still waiting to hear from your boss about what's going on. Drafting players before having the cap space to sign them is extremely risky and could end up costing you huge in the end

     



    I thought they don't count against the cap until they sign, and not until.  Thanks

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Pitt can't match...unless

    We'll know by midnight Sunday.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pitt can't match...unless

    In response to Philskiw1's comment:

     


    I thought they don't count against the cap until they sign, and not until.  Thanks

     



    The place holder is really there to prevent teams from spending right to the cap and drafting picks then not having the funds to sign the picks later. Might sound completely silly that it could happen but imagine how embarrassing it would be for the league if say a team like the Jets went into the draft with $30k in cap space and no wiggle room to restructure players later. Then having draft the players imagine the lawsuits from the NFLPA once they couldn't sign those players and the players have to waste a year doing nothing until the next draft and the money it costs them. At least with a rook min counting against the team the moment they draft a player there is enough ability to structure a deal that it would only count as the rook min deal for that initial year.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Pitt can't match...unless

    There are three possibilities on Pitt's side:

    • They wanted to keep Sanders, but didn't think he was worth the $2+ million for a second-round tender
    • They wanted to keep Sanders, thought he was worth more than the third-round tender, but couldn't afford to offer him more 
    • They really didn't want Sanders, but wanted the draft pick, so they set the tender a bit low to encourage bidders

    Two of these possibilities (1 and 3) suggest Pitt won't match the Pats' offer.  The middle one opens the possibility they'll try to make whatever cap moves are open to them with other players' salaries to be able to match the offer for Sanders.

    Given where the Pats came in (above a second-round tender), I think they want Sanders.  My guess is the Steelers take the pick and we get Sanders.  Question for the Pats will be whether Sanders really is worth the loss of the third-round pick plus the 2.5 million cap hit.  Given the dearth of receivers we have, I think getting him at that cost is a good move.  I think he (and Jones) are both better than Salas/Branch were last year, and I suspect we still try to get a rookie higher in the draft.  We started the season last year with four WRs (excluding Slater): Lloyd, Welker, Salas (later replaced by Branch), and Edelman.  This season, my guess is we are more likely to start with five who might be: Rookie (outside receiver), Amendola, Sanders, Jones, and Edelman.  If the rookie is a good one, that's a better-rounded, better-balanced group, I think, than last year's, which was basically Lloyd and three slots. 

     

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Pitt can't match...unless

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    There are three possibilities on Pitt's side:

    • They wanted to keep Sanders, but didn't think he was worth the $2+ million for a second-round tender
    • They wanted to keep Sanders, thought he was worth more than the third-round tender, but couldn't afford to offer him more 
    • They really didn't want Sanders, but wanted the draft pick, so they set the tender a bit low to encourage bidders

    Two of these possibilities (1 and 3) suggest Pitt won't match the Pats' offer.  The middle one opens the possibility they'll try to make whatever cap moves are open to them with other players' salaries to be able to match the offer for Sanders.

    Given where the Pats came in (above a second-round tender), I think they want Sanders.  My guess is the Steelers take the pick and we get Sanders.  Question for the Pats will be whether Sanders really is worth the loss of the third-round pick plus the 2.5 million cap hit.  Given the dearth of receivers we have, I think getting him at that cost is a good move.  I think he (and Jones) are both better than Salas/Branch were last year, and I suspect we still try to get a rookie higher in the draft.  We started the season last year with four WRs (excluding Slater): Lloyd, Welker, Salas (later replaced by Branch), and Edelman.  This season, my guess is we are more likely to start with five who might be: Rookie (outside receiver), Amendola, Sanders, Jones, and Edelman.  If the rookie is a good one, that's a better-rounded, better-balanced group, I think, than last year's, which was basically Lloyd and three slots. 

     

     




    4. They would prefer to give him a new deal, but don't have the cap space and shot themselves in the foot.

     

    They couldn't afford a 2nd rd tender price. 

    It's that simple. They were probably cringing the day FA opened. 

     



    That was my second bullet, no?  They wanted him but couldn't afford him . . .  

     

    I'm not sure which of the three it is.  Given their need at receiver I think they likely would have ponied up the extra $700K (assuming that's the right number) for the second round tender and tried to save the cap space elsewhere.  My guess is they really wanted the draft pick, actually, and feel they can pull in another receiver with longer-term potential at a better price. They've had good luck drafting receivers in the lower rounds and maybe feel confident they can get one at least as good as Sanders this year and have him on a rookie deal.  

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Pitt can't match...unless

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    it alkso begs the question is Pitts making only a financial decision? Why arent the Pats looking at the WR's on the market and seeing for half the Sanders money they could get a stud in the draft. Is this an admission that they do not do a good job scouting/rating college WR's much prefering an NFL resume on WR's?

    I find it odd, the Pats of all teams, going after URFA for a 3rd rounder in such a deep WR draft...seems so un-Patriotic.




    I dont see how this is unlike BB: he likes concrete value not football fantasy value - meaning he thinks that because he feels safer about the value of Sanders he is worth more than the gamble of a totally raw rookie who could flop. You or I may differ with BB on evaluation but it is very like BB to want to be on solid ground and for a reasonable cost.

     

     
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