Please jump of the wagon...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    Bruschi, Seymour, Mayo, Sanders, Ty Warren and Vince were all starters on our 2008 D.

    We weren't drafting to replace so many players at once overnight. 

    2009 was a transition year. He sold off Seymour and Vrabel.

    Committed rebuild via draft started in 2010.   2010-2012. He had 2 picks in the first 2 rounds of the 2010 and 2011 drafts alone.  

    Utter genius internal rebuild. Dealing Seymour for a new LT was one of the many genius decisions. If he had caved to Seymour, we would never had kept Wilfork and we'd never have gone 14-2 in 2010 and certainly never would have been in the 2011 SB.

    BB's GM mastery in 2010 was the stuff of legend. Legend.

    But, Brady choked a year later with Welkie as they saw pina coladas and sunshine in Costa Rica.

     




    Ya, so were Delta O'neil, Wilhite and Wheatly.  LMAO@U

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

     

     

     

     

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    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

     

    Why didn't you say 10% then?  You chose it to frame it the way you did to make it appear smaller to the people reading it.

    "1.8 point" sounds miniscule to the average reader, when the rate increase is not that way at all, especially with it trending up over THREE YEARS in a row.

    That's why. Babe did the same thing because it appeared minimal, or you two are as stupid as I thought.

    One more thing:

    I have a source for the cap for 2014 and players under contract with the numbers...

    Let's see what yours is and what mine is and compare. Let's see if you have the balls to cite your source.

     

     




    I already posted my source, go find it.

     

    Post yours, liar.  You didn't do it the other day when I told you to.

    1.8 points is 1.8 points.  It's less than a freaken FG.   It's less than a SAFETY!

    You find that significant?

    In a passing league where the O has a huge advantage?  Really?

    Shows how SMALL you think!  LMFAO@U

     

     



    No. YOU said what you said about "49 players under contract at 122 million in 2014", so the initiator should post his source.

     

    You started this, Mr. Insecure. Back your premise simply with a source/link and show confidence in your premise. You said it, so show the board.

    You have to post yours first or it will look like you are scared beyond belief and I've got you again.

     

     

     

     




    Already posted it.   You saw it and commented, ignorantly, of course. 

     

     

     

     

    Never saw yours after asking you to come up with one.

    So, where is it.  Are you afraid to post a link?

    BB in cap hell!  FACT!  How can that be?  Isn't he the greatest GM of all time, even though he's never won , one single award for it?

    BB would have been in CAP HELL several times already, if not for BRADY.  Fact!

       Prove he isn't or shut it.

     

     

     

     

     



    He's not listed as the GM officially so that is why. Are you claiming BB is not our GM? LOL!

     

     

     

    Why can't you just post the link?  How about type where I can find it?  Is that too much to ask?

    Or, did you not post it at all and just said you did? Hmmm.

    Considering you never post supporting sources which corrborate your idiocy, I would say the board will side with me on this one and not you.

    I gave you a chance to cite your info unless it's your own and you are refusing. That tells anyone with a brain that you're lying.

     

     




    I guess your photographic memory is failing.  Maybe you should take the lens cover off?

     

     

    Or stop drinking.  One of the two.

    You saw it.  You responded to it!  Blind azz, drunk!

    What is corrborate.  I don't recall that word in the English language.

     



    In what thread? If I did, can't you go find it and post it?  The fact you don't and keep deflecting is becoming more and more suspicious.

     

    Keep it up.

    We are not at "122 million with 49 players in 2014".  That;s a lie by you.

    FACT




    Show me where I'm lying, troll.  Go ahead and post that link.

    You called me a liar, now prove it.  You can't and that's a fact!

    I already did!  It's easy.  Just type in Pats cap 2014.  Go ahead, do it.  It won't bite.

    Cap HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL in 2014!

    Need a GM.  No more TB bailing out BB's cap hell.  NEVER MORE!  NEVER MORE!

    Time for the fake, GM to retire.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    I can't see into the future, don't pretend to be an expert on all things Patriots, but if the Patriots offense turns it around and the defense continues it's dominant ways than I hope the moaners who have been calling BB a bad GM, who have been screaming about Brady's best years being passed by either apologize or F off.

    Sorry, that's the way it is.  Without BB's draft picks and free agent picks this team wouldn't be as good as it is now, Chandler Jones, Mayo, Spikes, Kelly, Talib is about as good as it gets.  Feel free to bite me if you disagree...

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

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    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

     

    Why didn't you say 10% then?  You chose it to frame it the way you did to make it appear smaller to the people reading it.

    "1.8 point" sounds miniscule to the average reader, when the rate increase is not that way at all, especially with it trending up over THREE YEARS in a row.

    That's why. Babe did the same thing because it appeared minimal, or you two are as stupid as I thought.

    One more thing:

    I have a source for the cap for 2014 and players under contract with the numbers...

    Let's see what yours is and what mine is and compare. Let's see if you have the balls to cite your source.

     

     




    I already posted my source, go find it.

     

    Post yours, liar.  You didn't do it the other day when I told you to.

    1.8 points is 1.8 points.  It's less than a freaken FG.   It's less than a SAFETY!

    You find that significant?

    In a passing league where the O has a huge advantage?  Really?

    Shows how SMALL you think!  LMFAO@U

     

     



    No. YOU said what you said about "49 players under contract at 122 million in 2014", so the initiator should post his source.

     

    You started this, Mr. Insecure. Back your premise simply with a source/link and show confidence in your premise. You said it, so show the board.

    You have to post yours first or it will look like you are scared beyond belief and I've got you again.

     

     

     

     




    Already posted it.   You saw it and commented, ignorantly, of course. 

     

     

     

     

    Never saw yours after asking you to come up with one.

    So, where is it.  Are you afraid to post a link?

    BB in cap hell!  FACT!  How can that be?  Isn't he the greatest GM of all time, even though he's never won , one single award for it?

    BB would have been in CAP HELL several times already, if not for BRADY.  Fact!

       Prove he isn't or shut it.

     

     

     

     

     



    He's not listed as the GM officially so that is why. Are you claiming BB is not our GM? LOL!

     

     

     

    Why can't you just post the link?  How about type where I can find it?  Is that too much to ask?

    Or, did you not post it at all and just said you did? Hmmm.

    Considering you never post supporting sources which corrborate your idiocy, I would say the board will side with me on this one and not you.

    I gave you a chance to cite your info unless it's your own and you are refusing. That tells anyone with a brain that you're lying.

     

     




    I guess your photographic memory is failing.  Maybe you should take the lens cover off?

     

     

    Or stop drinking.  One of the two.

    You saw it.  You responded to it!  Blind azz, drunk!

    What is corrborate.  I don't recall that word in the English language.

     



    In what thread? If I did, can't you go find it and post it?  The fact you don't and keep deflecting is becoming more and more suspicious.

     

    Keep it up.

    We are not at "122 million with 49 players in 2014".  That;s a lie by you.

    FACT

     

     




    Show me where I'm lying, troll.  Go ahead and post that link.

     

     

    You called me a liar, now prove it.  You can't and that's a fact!

    I already did!  It's easy.  Just type in Pats cap 2014.  Go ahead, do it.  It won't bite.

    Cap HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL in 2014!

    Need a GM.  No more TB bailing out BB's cap hell.  NEVER MORE!  NEVER MORE!

    Time for the fake, GM to retire.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Why is it so hard for you to simply type the site you are so confident in or post the link?

     

    See, I caught RKrap in this same predicament when our bet was going on. He sourced a Jets homer dork who was clueless, which is why he lost our bet.

    Why can't you just type to tell me or post the link? What is the problem?

    If you are so confident, this is your chance to win your first ever debate with me. lol

    [/QUOTE]


    How many times do I have to say, "I already did."

    You responded to it.  You saw it,  You cried about it, you lied about it.

    You also claim to have different numbers.  That is your claim

    Prove it wrong.  Post your numbers.

    Even if I totally made up those numbers, which I didn't, you can't prove them wrong.

    Can you, liar?

    Man, time for you to delete this account.  Lies, lies and more lies.

    Get rid of the evidence, NOW!  LMAO@U

    How many times has TB bailed BB out of cap hell, now?  Where did that 7.5 MILL in cap savings go this year?    That guy DEAD MONEY again?   Well, he sucks!  NEVER MORE!

    Fake GM, needs to go! How much of Kraft's money has he wasted in DEAD MONEY over the years?   150- 200 MILLION?  WOW!  What a waste. 

    Hope Kraft could write that off, on his taxes

    Heads need to roll!

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

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    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

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    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

     

    Why didn't you say 10% then?  You chose it to frame it the way you did to make it appear smaller to the people reading it.

    "1.8 point" sounds miniscule to the average reader, when the rate increase is not that way at all, especially with it trending up over THREE YEARS in a row.

    That's why. Babe did the same thing because it appeared minimal, or you two are as stupid as I thought.

    One more thing:

    I have a source for the cap for 2014 and players under contract with the numbers...

    Let's see what yours is and what mine is and compare. Let's see if you have the balls to cite your source.

     

     




    I already posted my source, go find it.

     

    Post yours, liar.  You didn't do it the other day when I told you to.

    1.8 points is 1.8 points.  It's less than a freaken FG.   It's less than a SAFETY!

    You find that significant?

    In a passing league where the O has a huge advantage?  Really?

    Shows how SMALL you think!  LMFAO@U

     

     



    No. YOU said what you said about "49 players under contract at 122 million in 2014", so the initiator should post his source.

     

    You started this, Mr. Insecure. Back your premise simply with a source/link and show confidence in your premise. You said it, so show the board.

    You have to post yours first or it will look like you are scared beyond belief and I've got you again.

     

     

     

     




    Already posted it.   You saw it and commented, ignorantly, of course. 

     

     

     

     

    Never saw yours after asking you to come up with one.

    So, where is it.  Are you afraid to post a link?

    BB in cap hell!  FACT!  How can that be?  Isn't he the greatest GM of all time, even though he's never won , one single award for it?

    BB would have been in CAP HELL several times already, if not for BRADY.  Fact!

       Prove he isn't or shut it.

     

     

     

     

     



    He's not listed as the GM officially so that is why. Are you claiming BB is not our GM? LOL!

     

     

     

    Why can't you just post the link?  How about type where I can find it?  Is that too much to ask?

    Or, did you not post it at all and just said you did? Hmmm.

    Considering you never post supporting sources which corrborate your idiocy, I would say the board will side with me on this one and not you.

    I gave you a chance to cite your info unless it's your own and you are refusing. That tells anyone with a brain that you're lying.

     

     




    I guess your photographic memory is failing.  Maybe you should take the lens cover off?

     

     

    Or stop drinking.  One of the two.

    You saw it.  You responded to it!  Blind azz, drunk!

    What is corrborate.  I don't recall that word in the English language.

     



    In what thread? If I did, can't you go find it and post it?  The fact you don't and keep deflecting is becoming more and more suspicious.

     

    Keep it up.

    We are not at "122 million with 49 players in 2014".  That;s a lie by you.

    FACT

     

     

     

     




    Show me where I'm lying, troll.  Go ahead and post that link.

     

     

     

     

    You called me a liar, now prove it.  You can't and that's a fact!

    I already did!  It's easy.  Just type in Pats cap 2014.  Go ahead, do it.  It won't bite.

    Cap HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL in 2014!

    Need a GM.  No more TB bailing out BB's cap hell.  NEVER MORE!  NEVER MORE!

    Time for the fake, GM to retire.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Why is it so hard for you to simply type the site you are so confident in or post the link?

     

     

     

    See, I caught RKrap in this same predicament when our bet was going on. He sourced a Jets homer dork who was clueless, which is why he lost our bet.

    Why can't you just type to tell me or post the link? What is the problem?

    If you are so confident, this is your chance to win your first ever debate with me. lol

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    How many times do I have to say, "I already did."

     

     

    You responded to it.  You saw it,  You cried about it, you lied about it.

    You also claim to have different numbers.  That is your claim

    Prove it wrong.  Post your numbers.

    Even if I totally made up those numbers, which I didn't, you can't prove them wrong.

    Can you, liar?

    Man, time for you to delete this account.  Lies, lies and more lies.

    Get rid of the evidence, NOW!  LMAO@U

    How many times has TB bailed BB out of cap hell, now?  Where did that 7.5 MILL in cap savings go this year?    That guy DEAD MONEY again?   Well, he sucks!  NEVER MORE!

    Fake GM, needs to go! How much of Kraft's money has he wasted in DEAD MONEY over the years?   150- 200 MILLION?  WOW!  What a waste. 

    Hope Kraft could write that off, on his taxes

    Heads need to roll!

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Can you point me to where I responded to it, please? Wouldn't it be easier for you to show me up and link me to the thread where you supposedly posted your source? lol

     

    The more and more you continue to avoid simply telling me or showing me where you supposed link is, the board will become more and more suspicious.

    [/QUOTE]


    All the board has to do, if they are suspicious, is google Pats cap 2014.

    Now where is the link for the mystery numbers you claim are different?

    Funny, I can't find it. 

    The only other one is the Jets cap sight which was posted before all the FA signings, Rookies, extensions, recovered cap and DEAD MONEY APPLIED!

    That was at 106MM for 38 players signed, and things changed considerably since then.

    Is THAT why you won't post your contradicting numbers?   Because you will certainly prove the fool that you are, if you do?   LOL  Have another swig on me. EH?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    Wow. Why won't you post the link? What is it?  Afraid to be caught again?




    Wow.  Why don't you look it up and better yet, post your link?  Afraid to be caught, AGAIN?

    Give it up, troll boy.  You lose.

    I'm tired of playing with you, now.   TOODLES!

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    "Will you still be a Pats fan in the next few weeks?  "

    yup - 

    would you like to win a post-Spygate Super Bowl? 

    Because I would. So would Belichick and Brady. 

    That's the bar they have set. 

    So, I'm rooting for them - but the window is closing, so yeah, folks get a little bent out of shape sometimes.

    Plus I wouldn't mind beating a decent team if that's ok by you. 

    I always love the "are you are you a card carrying member of the Pats fan base" posts...let's hold a hearing in Boston and get this sorted out once and for all. 

         
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

     

     I am somewhat interested in the Pats' cap situation next year, but it's hard to figure out if there's any information in this thread underneath all the arguing.

     

    I did look up the info that Pezz posted earlier on "overthecap.com."  Not sure how accurate any of that data is, but here's what it seems to show:

     

    • The dead money for 2014 that the Pats have already accrued (and will have to account against the cap) is over $8 million, but most of it (over $7 million) is due to the Hernandez cut, which is an abberation and which the Pats I'm sure hope they can get relief for. 
    • The site does show the Pats with roughly $112 million in contracts for the top 51 players.  It isn't completely clear whether those contracts all extend into 2014, but I assume that's what the data is showing (it is presented as the information for 2014).  This seems like a reasonable amount.  
    • It also shows for each player under contract, the "dead money" that would have to be accounted for if the player were cut. Note that this dead money only comes into play if the player is cut.  If the player stays under contract, there is no dead money.  Most of the guys on that list that would cause large dead money hits are probably not going to be cut (Brady, Gronk, Mayo, etc.). And some of the guys have such large base salaries that a cut would result in net cap savings even with the dead money.  Assuming the data is correct, cutting Wilfork would create $3.6 million in dead money, but would eliminate $8 million in salary and workout bonus, resulting in a reduction of the cap hit for Wilfork from $11.6 million (if he's on the roster) to $3.6 million in dead money (if he's cut). 

    When I look at the data cursorily I don't see either a huge cap problem or a huge underspend.  Basically, the Pats could bring back 45+ of their current players and still have more than $10 million to play with to get the roster to 53.  A few select cuts will increase that cap room by several million (even while creating some dead money in some cases).  This isn't a huge amount of room, but it's also not "cap hell."  

    None of this, however, addresses the quality of the players on the roster.  The Pats do a good job of managing their spend and cap.  The only debate is whether they end up with the best possible roster.  I think that debate is a lot harder to resolve, and I have seen good arguments both ways. On the pro side, you have a team that continues to be highly competitive year after year, that has an extraordinary regular season record, and that has acquired some very nice players despite having low draft picks every year.  On the con side, you have a team that has lacked great talent at certain positions, has struggled in big games in the playoffs, and has had a number of busts at some positions.  Both arguments are reasonable--the problem is gathering enough objective data to make a conclusive determination.  There are too many variables and too much information missing to do this.  So it never gets beyond argument . . . 

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

     

     One other thing to consider in this never-ending debate is the question of whether or not you can build a true championship calibre team without running into cap problems.  People who defend Belichick's approach will argue that winning the chamionship requires a lot of things to go right and so the best thing you can do is stay competitive every year and maximize your chances by getting into the playoffs every year.  Critics of Belichick's approach will say it's better to worry less about being competitive every year and instead cash in all your chips to get a truly top team in one or two years, even if it means some cap issues and a weaker team the following years. I'm not sure the answer is clear.  Again lots of variables to consider. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    No wagon fan would be on these boards as much as I am. I have nearly 7,000 posts in a couple of years (that's more than I've spoken to my grandmother). Pats fan till I die, but yes, interesting football is coming up and we have a shot at seeing some dynamic game changing players in Gronk and Armstead return to help the team.

     

    Though Armstead's production won't see it's peak until after the bye. He's well versed in the system, but he hasn't been practicing and would have to get in football shape for New England fans to see why team fought over him.



    49 I think you might be putting too high expectations on Armstead. The kid hasn't even taken a single snap in pads on an NFL level and has had a single practice with the Pats in pads but he's a dynamic game changing player and well versed in the system? Who knows maybe he'll come out and you'll be right but I wouldn't set expectations too high for a CFL rook

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    ??????????

    Jumping off a 4-1 team? Talk about selling high.

    Last season NE was what? 3-2 at this point? Everyone was crowing about how they would cruise to a SB win. 

    To be honest, this is something most people expected. Even after their 30 point showing, I posted the offense would come along in fits and starts. Two steps forward, one step back ... and a lot of that has to do with health.

    Cincy has a great defense. NE has not had the same starting offense in any week this season. Every single game it's a new set of tools. 

    Outside of that ... the defense has been amazing. 

    Now this week, a huge test for both sides of the ball. 

    Let's see if the "D" can keep it up against a truly elite offense, and whether the offense can bounce back against a very good and surging defense. 

    Even if they drop that one, they very well could btw, NE wil still be dominant once thes young players round into form, the injured players come back, and the whole unit can develop a rhythm together. 

    Outside of any further injuries ... I have zero concerns. 

    The fundamentals of the talent spread on this team, special teams, defense, and offense is better than it has been in 9 years. 

    They just need to get healthy, get experienced, and get some rhythm on offense. 

     

     
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    Pro, there is no such thing as "cap hell", as I explained back in March when I bludgeoned Rusty in our Jets/salary bet..

    Rusty, I didnt realize Spotrac was a "Jets dork"

    Pro is on the money, according to Spotrac, the Pats have their top 51 players on the books for 2014 at $112.2M and dead money of $8.5M...to total $120.7M against the 2014 cap

    This does not account for free agents Talib, Spikes, Svitek, Washington, Edelman, Blount, Fletcher, Aiken, Cole, Mulligan

    There are some salaries that could be redone. Vince is on the books at $11.6, and if cut, the team takes on $3.6M in dead money. Mankins on the books at $10.5M and if cut the team takes on $8M in dead money. Ghots $3.8/$800K. Gregory $3.1M/$800K. On the flip side, some one like Mayo is on the books at $7.6M, but if cut, the team takes a cap hit of $9.6M.

    I dont recall the PAts being this tight against the cap in recent memory....

    Just to compare, because Rusty loves to discuss his favorite team, the Jets, who he has labeled in "salary cap hell" maybe 500 times in the past 6 months, they have a 2014 cap number of $99M (inluding only 16K in dead money)...the figure of $99M does INCLUDE Sanchez and Holmes...assuming both are cut, the team creates another $16.5M in salary cap space....

    The Jets could be looking at $40M in cap space in 2014

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    The pats have been in 4 of 5 close games. We won 3 of those. I don't count Atlanta as a close game. The bengals game was a good game.  We were never out of that game. They had us by 3 at the half, and it took a penalty and 4 plays to get it in the ez. The D held and got the O the ball back at the end. 

    I knew leaving the game this board would blow what the d is good enough to compete ith the Saints. This will be an exciting year being a pats fan. 

     

     

    Now you got the easy part done telling me about it.

    Does that handshaped bruise on your back hurt?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    They just need to get healthy, get experienced, and get some rhythm on offense. 




    Yep....this ^^^^

    Nice ruined thread I see from the board jester.....2-3 pages of blanks....what a dub!!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    Pro, there is no such thing as "cap hell", as I explained back in March when I bludgeoned Rusty in our Jets/salary bet..

    Rusty, I didnt realize Spotrac was a "Jets dork"

    Pro is on the money, according to Spotrac, the Pats have their top 51 players on the books for 2014 at $112.2M and dead money of $8.5M...to total $120.7M against the 2014 cap

    This does not account for free agents Talib, Spikes, Svitek, Washington, Edelman, Blount, Fletcher, Aiken, Cole, Mulligan

    There are some salaries that could be redone. Vince is on the books at $11.6, and if cut, the team takes on $3.6M in dead money. Mankins on the books at $10.5M and if cut the team takes on $8M in dead money. Ghots $3.8/$800K. Gregory $3.1M/$800K. On the flip side, some one like Mayo is on the books at $7.6M, but if cut, the team takes a cap hit of $9.6M.

    I dont recall the PAts being this tight against the cap in recent memory....

    Just to compare, because Rusty loves to discuss his favorite team, the Jets, who he has labeled in "salary cap hell" maybe 500 times in the past 6 months, they have a 2014 cap number of $99M (inluding only 16K in dead money)...the figure of $99M does INCLUDE Sanchez and Holmes...assuming both are cut, the team creates another $16.5M in salary cap space....

    The Jets could be looking at $40M in cap space in 2014



    I don't know rkarp, I think there is such a thing as cap hell but only the worst run teams ever fall into it and usually it only lasts a year or two at most. For example Jets and Pit were in it bad last offseason. Heck they barely could keep Sanders and if the Pats really wanted the player over the deal I think they could have made a reasonable offer that Pit wouldn't have wanted to try to match.

    However there are always ways to work your way around the cap if you need extra room. Wilfork is a prime example where they could extend him, guarantee a good portion of his base next year and spread it out over the extension effectively dropping his cap hit next year by enormous chunks.

    A. Wilson would save a little over a mil in cap space if cut, Gregory a little under a mil, Connolly a little over 2 mil I think.

    Arringtons contract sux, no getting out from it next year same with Amendola.

    Mankins would be a tough one to get out from this next year.

    I have a feeling they are going to go soft in FA next year because of limited cap space but in 15' when the cap expands they have a large number of higher end contracts that can come off the books and create a good amount of room. However, next year looks like another year of having to rely on rooks and UDFA's. No team should have to rely on 12+ rooks every year let alone 3 years running

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     I am somewhat interested in the Pats' cap situation next year, but it's hard to figure out if there's any information in this thread underneath all the arguing.

     

    I did look up the info that Pezz posted earlier on "overthecap.com."  Not sure how accurate any of that data is, but here's what it seems to show:

     

    • The dead money for 2014 that the Pats have already accrued (and will have to account against the cap) is over $8 million, but most of it (over $7 million) is due to the Hernandez cut, which is an abberation and which the Pats I'm sure hope they can get relief for. 
    • The site does show the Pats with roughly $112 million in contracts for the top 51 players.  It isn't completely clear whether those contracts all extend into 2014, but I assume that's what the data is showing (it is presented as the information for 2014).  This seems like a reasonable amount.  
    • It also shows for each player under contract, the "dead money" that would have to be accounted for if the player were cut. Note that this dead money only comes into play if the player is cut.  If the player stays under contract, there is no dead money.  Most of the guys on that list that would cause large dead money hits are probably not going to be cut (Brady, Gronk, Mayo, etc.). And some of the guys have such large base salaries that a cut would result in net cap savings even with the dead money.  Assuming the data is correct, cutting Wilfork would create $3.6 million in dead money, but would eliminate $8 million in salary and workout bonus, resulting in a reduction of the cap hit for Wilfork from $11.6 million (if he's on the roster) to $3.6 million in dead money (if he's cut). 

    When I look at the data cursorily I don't see either a huge cap problem or a huge underspend.  Basically, the Pats could bring back 45+ of their current players and still have more than $10 million to play with to get the roster to 53.  A few select cuts will increase that cap room by several million (even while creating some dead money in some cases).  This isn't a huge amount of room, but it's also not "cap hell."  

    None of this, however, addresses the quality of the players on the roster.  The Pats do a good job of managing their spend and cap.  The only debate is whether they end up with the best possible roster.  I think that debate is a lot harder to resolve, and I have seen good arguments both ways. On the pro side, you have a team that continues to be highly competitive year after year, that has an extraordinary regular season record, and that has acquired some very nice players despite having low draft picks every year.  On the con side, you have a team that has lacked great talent at certain positions, has struggled in big games in the playoffs, and has had a number of busts at some positions.  Both arguments are reasonable--the problem is gathering enough objective data to make a conclusive determination.  There are too many variables and too much information missing to do this.  So it never gets beyond argument . . . 

     




    Pro

    The Salaries listed do cover the top 51 but there are only 49 players listed as that is the total # of players under contract,   So, that's 121+ (with dead money) for 49 players.

    They would have to cut some serious talent (or players with + 2M in cap, ea)  ( or 1 biggie, ie Wilfork) to come up with that extra 8m. to keep 45.  It would also create 4 more slots they would have to fill on top of the FA's already not under contract.

    They would also create more dead money with those cuts.

    They could always trade and restructure/extend some of the existing contracts for some savings but cutting players looks ominous and they would have to be replaced with lessor contracts.

    They are also looking at replacing players like Talib  and the other 15(not under contract) to get back up to 61 with PS.  Some of that will be draft picks who will also eat 4-5M in cap, assuming they even take a first round pick. HA!

    They will likely have to carry over the 5M from this year, assuming they can, to get some relief.

    That means they have no or little money to spend this year.  Cap HELL!

    They could also use it to extend Talib or others, this year, but I wouldn't count Talib as an option.  More likely replaced with another rookie.

    They also have to have some $$$ in reserve for operating costs as Rusty puts it. LOL

    So," operating "cost and new rookies could easily eat up 10M. + More dead money + replacing  the remaining FA slots.

    Sorry, looks like hell to me.

    Damn shame all Brady's cap savings went to dead money. Damn shame!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    In response to DontQuestionBB's comment:

     

    I still remember when the Pats drafted Eugene Chung and Hart Lee Dykes.  So I don't plan on jumping off the Wagon during the Brady years.

     



         Wow! That Eugene Chung pick makes the Tavon Wilson pick look like a stroke of genius. LOL!!! Hart Lee Dykes might have turned out to be a very good receiver, but for suffering  career ending injuries:

    Hart Lee Dykes (born September 2, 1966 in Bay City, Texas) is a former professional American football player who played wide receiver for two seasons for the New England Patriots. He was awarded the Dial Award as the national high school scholar-athlete of the year in 1984. He played two seasons, with his career being cut short when he fractured his kneecap [1] and because of an eye injury which occurred during a bar room fight with teammate Irving Fryar in 1990.[2] He was also drafted into the Chicago White Sox minor league system in 1989.[3] As of 2002[update], Dykes was the owner of a trucking company in Sugar Land, Texas.[4]

    He is perhaps best remembered for his involvement in NCAA recruiting corruption. Voluntarily dealing with an investigation, he was eventually granted immunity and detailed a bidding war that went on for his services between Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Illinois and Oklahoma State (all of whom ended up on probation). OSU paid him at least $23,000.[5] Once he finally got to OSU, he was a member of a talented offense with Mike Gundy at quarterback, Thurman Thomas and later, Barry Sanders at running back.

    Dykes was selected in the first round (16th pick) of the 1989 NFL Draft In two seasons with the Patriots, Dykes caught 83 passes for 1,344 yards and seven touchdowns.[6]

         For those of you who don't know anything about Chung:

    Eugene Yon Chung (born June 14, 1969 in Prince George's County, Maryland) is a former American football offensive lineman, who played in the National Football League from 1992 to 1997. He is currently the Offensive Line Assistant of the Kansas City Chiefs. Chung was brought over by Andy Reid after serving three seasons with him in Philadelphia Eagles in the same capacity.

    The New England Patriots drafted him 13th overall out of Virginia Tech in the 1992 NFL Draft. He would go on to play three seasons with New England. Chung was selected by the Jacksonville Jaguars in the 1995 NFL Expansion Draft. He played one season with the Jaguars and one with the Indianapolis Colts before retiring.

    Chung is Korean American, and was the first Asian American player to be drafted in the first round since Roman Gabriel in 1962.

     

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    Core fans aren't jumping.  It is the "what have you done for me lately" ones that are crying right now.  Unless the team plays every game and win in a way they envision, something is wrong with the team.  Last Sunday, the team played about as horrible as we have seen in years and yet only lost 13 - 6 on the road.  A few bounces of the ball the other way and it could have been a win.

    AGCSBill, just a fan havin' fun!!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from HelmetofLeather. Show HelmetofLeather's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    The only jumpers arrived with the 1st Sb win in 01.....let em go...........the rats usually abandon ship first !!!

    "Don't touch my Leatherhelmet!!"

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    Helmet..  remember the euphoria when the Pats scored first against the Bears in the SB way back when.. then the bubble burst!!!!

    AGCSBill, just a fan havin' fun!!

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


    It's going to be an up and down year, no one is going to tell me how to root for the team, when to complain, when to rejoice, or when to lower my expectations. I don't think there is one single person on this board who is a fair weather fan.

     



    Look in the mirror.  YOu thought BB was all in for the 2009 and 2010 seasons and had no idea he was transitioning into a rebuild on the fly into a Lockout.

     

     



    But mental case, YOU told us the D rebuild on the fly was complete in 2009, nearly 4 years ago. It's hilarious how you prove what a stooge you are by constantly date changing the rebuild. LMAO@U

    Another day, another bludgeoning of the village imbecile.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    I've seen this team lose 336 times and I'm still a fan. How many "core fans" here can claim the same?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Please jump of the wagon...

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    I've seen this team lose 336 times and I'm still a fan. How many "core fans" here can claim the same?




    Pretty much every loss since 1975. i am guessing it's not 336 times but enough to understand where this orginization has come from.

     

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