1. You have chosen to ignore posts from beastplant. Show beastplant's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 2:40 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats:
    In Response to Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats :         
    Posted by TexasPat3


    why do you fail to cite this in your rebuttle.....


    texas pat on chung pick after draft....
    From the Mike Reiss reports we're getting, the Pats' 2009 recruits certainly sound promising. It appears that Patrick Chung has the tools to develop into a solid SS.

    texas pat on chung now.....
    5.) Passing on ILB Rey Maualuga: Sure, there were some off field incidents. But the Pats needed LBs...and had a guy with a first round rating fall to them. Maualuga is starting for the 4-1 Bengals. Instead, the Pats chose safety Patrick Chung...who is a reserve...and looked terrible in coverage throughout the preseason. 

    hey tex, much respect, i've known you on this board for years now as a true pat fan and well informed poster, but this time you let your lesser reasoning prevail in posting a revisionist, knee jerk piece consisting of nothing more than hypocritical, 20-20 hindsight garbage.   we all do it sometimes, don't take it personal being called out.  it's always been your weakness.
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 3:04 PM EDT

    Wow.  that hindsight is 20/20

     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from CherokeeChief. Show CherokeeChief's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 3:11 PM EDT

    Hey guys, haven't you noted that this is all nothing but the same: BB prides himself on being able to "do it on the cheap". He "don't need no high priced stars on HIS team", especially at WR. The prime years of Tom Brady, who is quite possibly the greatest QB in modern football history, are being wasted because of BB's preceived legacy. Too bad the Kraft family can't see the big picture, but then again maybe they do, but they like winning on the cheap too. Where's the spirit of Jerry Jones when you need it? The majority of the Pat's roster is now comprised of "rookies" and "wanna-be" re-treads at almost every position; some have worked out, but most haven't. Like all things novel, I fear that BB's time and success has come and gone. For the present, I'd like to see a blue chip asset added to the Tom Brady, Randy Moss and Wes Welker portfolio. Any investors?
     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 3:50 PM EDT

    I dont think most of what you say is valid.  Gaffney dropped alot of passes last year, I thought we should get someone else.  I also thought Galloway was a good pickup.  Linebackers look pretty good to me.  Springs is ok, and the pickup of Bodden is incredible.  Morris, Faulk, and BJGE are enough to get by, obviously Bill carried 5 of them because he thought one may drop.  So that decision was good.  The biggest problem we have, we lost to 2 very good teams in their home stadiums by what, less than 10 points?  Not too bad.  Stop freaking out, its a long season, and I like where we are headed.  I trust in Bill because TIME AND TIME again, he has shown me his way works.  Not all the time, not perfectly, but better than sports pundits, and most if not all of the people who write here on the message boards.  We are good enough to get better, and lucky enough to still have the chance. 
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 3:57 PM EDT

    Who says the Patriots are hurt at all. They finished 11-5 last year and didn't make the playoffs. I see a team right now that is still building toward the end of the year.If they finish 11-5 this year and make the playoffs it is safe to say that they weren't hurt at all by the moves they made. Should I assume that if the patriots didn't make any of those moves that they would be 5-0 or 4-1 right now. I doubt it.Why don't we wait until at least week 10 before we start making judgement calls on the off season moves. Judging from what I've seen to this point in the season the biggest disappointment has been Brady's consistency which I suspect will be inproved by the last quarter of the season.
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 3:57 PM EDT

    Cherokee--- WHAT?!?! you invoke Jerry Jones? You must be kidding.  Why not city Dan Snyder while you are at it? How about we model Al Davis?  You imply we are "wasting" Bradys best years?  Ummm he was throwing to Troy Brown, Deion Branch, and David Givens in his best years.  Its not about being "cheap" which by implication it trying to save money, it is about not BANKRUPTING the team in future years to win one today.  It's why we are still competitive now.  The problem with Brady is he is still throwing too low, not his receivers.  Now he is throwing low and off target, and its too much for them to make up for.  Brady gets fixed, all the rest of this is fixed too.
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 3:58 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats:
    In Response to Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats : Tropical Colts fan???  Is that what you meant.  Don't I wish.  Its 40 and rainy here today. 
    Posted by underdogg


    It is funny, I don't recall posting that.....typical Mods changing posts.....
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 4:01 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats:
    In Response to Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats : Canada is close to N.E. Underdogg do you hate Canadian Maple syrup as well?
    Posted by TrueChamp


    Canadian Syrup is the same as NE Syrup.....it comes from the same kind of trees...
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 4:03 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats:
    I think loosing Gaffney was huge, but i also wouldnt underestimate the loss of both Heath Evans and Russ Hochstein, they were both true patriots, versatile and tough football players, both vital to our running game.
    Posted by Patsfan24-7


    LOSING the Gaff master was not huge...trust me....
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from CherokeeChief. Show CherokeeChief's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 4:43 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats:
    Cherokee--- WHAT?!?! you invoke Jerry Jones? You must be kidding.  Why not city Dan Snyder while you are at it? How about we model Al Davis?  You imply we are "wasting" Bradys best years?  Ummm he was throwing to Troy Brown, Deion Branch, and David Givens in his best years.  Its not about being "cheap" which by implication it trying to save money, it is about not BANKRUPTING the team in future years to win one today.  It's why we are still competitive now.  The problem with Brady is he is still throwing too low, not his receivers.  Now he is throwing low and off target, and its too much for them to make up for.  Brady gets fixed, all the rest of this is fixed too.
    Posted by Davedsone

     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 5:10 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats:
    Galloway was a terrible move, dumb on the surface, proven dumb in substance. Made no sense. I don't understand anything about the Greg Lewis saga, that is completely confusing from beginning to end. Gaffney? He dropped some big time important passes, and will continue to, so I think to question that move is a big reach. Who would have honestly traded Maroney at the beginning of the season? Some, but not many. Don't even talk about wrong draft picks, its 5 GAMES into the season! Talk about Patrick Chung in 3 years Pats are losing because Brady is not back to par and Pees sux again as DC.
    Posted by Achainsaw


    Completely agree.

    Gaffney dropped some key passes in 2006 and 2007 post-season losses.  He was great in one game, bad in another, a' la Rex Grossman. And he got too much money.

    Galloway and Lewis didn't work. there had to be somebody better than either them or Gaffney.  I can't believe that was the best they could do.

    I liked Taylor.  I don't think he was a mistake.  The way I see it, hhe helped the pats in all three wins and almost helped them win in a loss. He is not on I/R, so maybe he will help them later IF they can make the play-offs.

    As for Maroney, they could simply convert him into a WR and solve some problems.  Good hands, good cuts, breakaway speed.  Turns a negative into a positive.  At least use him more like Faulk, who seems to finally be showing his age.

    Two other off-season mistakes? Losing both Heath Evans and then Russ Hochstein.  Evans could do it all w/o flash.  Hochstein was similarly flexible and could have been a good, bruising FB in place of a departed Evans.  They effectively used him that way in the past. They never made up for those losses and I think they are just two more reasons among many that the O looks its weakest since 2000.
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from CherokeeChief. Show CherokeeChief's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 5:36 PM EDT

    Davedsone - you miss the point: the present WR's can't get open. That's why Brady is off. After Moss & Welker, where's the beef? However, you do make my point by citing Branch and Givens. How they doing these days? Why not cite all the rest of the no names, the projects and the chopped liver BB has run through Foxboro season after season and called them WR's? There's been so many, I can't recall ALL their names. But for the extrodinary talents of Brady, we wouldn't have known they were alive anyway. Even Moss and Welker came on the cheap. But this indictment doesn't stop with just the WR's, it's at all positions throughout the entire team. Brady suffers behind an O line that is anchored by the likes of M. Light, now that's scary stuff. Hey, how about those DB's and those RB's too? They're really lighting it up.  Yeah, old BB has really opened the wallet there too. This is not about bankrupting a team, as you have warned, it's about aquiring and surrrounding your best assets with talent and a genuine opportunity to win before they're too old or too damaged to do so. I think this what BB requires of his players; "best opportunity to win"? Yes, I meant the SPIRIT of Jerry Jones, now there's a guy who's not afraid to open his wallet for good or for bad.
     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 5:56 PM EDT

    Cherokee.  AND HOW BOUT THEM COWBOYS?  Point about Jerry, it doesnt work.  We are not under cap by alot.  so the money is getting spent. And my point about receivers is none of them can catch what isnt thrown in the area they are in, and this has been a BRADY problem for what....4 years now?  On this very web site is still posted an examination of Brady's throwing motion.  It was put there because he was missing low.  All the time.  Now is just the same.  I would like a second reciever.  I would also like Randy Moss to elevate a bit more often.  I would like the D to stop failing AFTER they get a team in 3rd and long.  But i watch the dvd's from 2001, 2003 and 2004, much the same.  Difference is the D not making those big plays once in a while, and Brady not hitting the throws.
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 6:23 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats:
    The D is doing just fine so how exactly does Pees s uck? I hate Dean Pees but give credit where credit is due. He has a lot of young players and back up playing on D this year and he is doing a fine job with them. Not to mention that his star MLB Mayo went down in game one and he was able to get great production out of Gary Guyton while morons on this forum were screaming for Derek Brooks signing. He was able to get Guyton to play some good football. Pees is not the problem Tom Brady is.
    Posted by MVPKilla2009


    Pees is not the problem? His defense allowed about nearly 6 yards average gain by the broncos and something like 6 for 6 converting 3rd downs in the 4th quarter. That's with Mayo. We're near the botton of the league in getting off the field on third down.

    Letting a journeyman nobody like orton pick them apart with 90 and 98 yard drives to win the game? (Merriweather should be benched for the next game for his unbelievably stupid taunting penalty, but I'd be very surprised if he is.)

    I like to see guys like guyton making a contribution but you can hardly credit pees for that. he had no-one else to put in the middle.

    You consider this a "fine job"? I'd hate to see what you'd consider a crappy job. 
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 6:31 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats:
    In Response to Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats : Canadian Syrup is the same as NE Syrup.....it comes from the same kind of trees...
    Posted by m1020us


    In that case I'm sure he hates it.
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jaacee. Show jaacee's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 6:39 PM EDT

    90% of all the above is true. This team is has problems all over th place. Bottom line-- not fun to watch anymore. Big doubts they make the playoffs.  
     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 6:39 PM EDT

    Talking about poor offseason decisions how about some of the guys we passed on to take chung. Does he have one tackle yet this year? Does butler have one?
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RCH84. Show RCH84's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 7:15 PM EDT

    I was at the Jets loss and can safely say that Galloway was the worst player on the field by far.  Gafney had his moments but with even a replacement level receiver the Pats might have beaten the Jets.

    Its ridiculous to grade Chung now...what would people have said about Merriweather 5 games in, while now in year 3 he may be playing at a Pro Bowl level.
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from CherokeeChief. Show CherokeeChief's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 8:01 PM EDT

    Davedsone- I hate to tell you, but the KBOY's are 3 & 2, just like the Pat's (not that there's anything wrong with that) thus far. So, let's not go overboard on this Jerry Jones, devil thing. By the way, 2007 was a great year for Brady, his WR's, and the Pat's. He wasn't throwing low that year and I guess Moss was "elevating" more. Could it have been that he had an actual third receiver and could afford to keep his TE in for help at the tackle spot (Light) to keep himelf upright? I guess my main point is that I am finding it more and more annoying that BB and the Krafts won't take the extra step (or $) to assure Brady of a genuine opportunity to perform at the level that he is capable (and deserving) of. That's not even taking into consideration of what we the fans are entitled to. Since your invoking the names of past Pat's players, how about Ted Johnson? Why Ted Johnson?  I don't want to see Tom Brady become the poster boy for football "brain" damage like Ted while having his "brainy" boss BB waltz away reknown as a genius while showing no more than a paper cut for the bad choice's and bad decision's he's made as a GM and Coach. Hey, can we have a little love and cash for the team here? 

     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 8:02 PM EDT

    In Its ridiculous to grade Chung now...what would people have said about Merriweather 5 games in, while now in year 3 he may be playing at a Pro Bowl level.
    Posted by RCH84[/QUOTE]

    I didn't grade him, I said he hasn't done anything thus far to impress and he hasn't. 

    Several guys who we passed on before picking chung have had immediate impacts; e.g. brandon pettigrew, michael oher, percy harvin, clay mathews,  rey maueluga.

    alphonso smith has played 5 games at CB so far for the broncos.
     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from thetrinity12. Show thetrinity12's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 8:23 PM EDT

    Rey Maualuga would have been an expensive backup. Not to mention he doesn't have the football IQ of a guy who Belichick would bite on.
     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 8:33 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats:
    Davedsone - you miss the point: the present WR's can't get open. That's why Brady is off. After Moss & Welker, where's the beef? However, you do make my point by citing Branch and Givens. How they doing these days? Why not cite all the rest of the no names, the projects and the chopped liver BB has run through Foxboro season after season and called them WR's? There's been so many, I can't recall ALL their names. But for the extrodinary talents of Brady, we wouldn't have known they were alive anyway. Even Moss and Welker came on the cheap. But this indictment doesn't stop with just the WR's, it's at all positions throughout the entire team. Brady suffers behind an O line that is anchored by the likes of M. Light, now that's scary stuff. Hey, how about those DB's and those RB's too? They're really lighting it up.  Yeah, old BB has really opened the wallet there too. This is not about bankrupting a team, as you have warned, it's about aquiring and surrrounding your best assets with talent and a genuine opportunity to win before they're too old or too damaged to do so. I think this what BB requires of his players; "best opportunity to win"? Yes, I meant the SPIRIT of Jerry Jones, now there's a guy who's not afraid to open his wallet for good or for bad.
    Posted by CherokeeChief


         While I can accept some of what you say...the rest is completely bogus. The Pats' system of favoring the acquisition of quality depth over a handful of stars has resulted in the team going to 4 SBs in this decade. Jerry Jones?? Why do you think that the Dallas Cowboys are a mess right now? Hows' that Roy Williams trade working out for Jerry? In case you don't remember, Jerry traded a first, third and sixth round pick for Williams and a 7th rounder. Hows' the overrated, overpaid primadonna, Tony Romo, doing?

         For that matter, Danny Snyder, the owner of the Washington Redskins, has never been "afraid to open his wallet". Hows' that worked out in Washington?

         The Patriots are trying to model themselves after the Steelers and Cowboys of yore. They want to build themselves, and rebuild themselves...so the team continues to win for the next 5-10 years. The Pats' strategy is to build a contending team every year...rather than blow everything up for just one or two good seasons.   
     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BigPapi61. Show BigPapi61's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 9:04 PM EDT

    Yeah it's possible to build a really strong house gathering all the right materials. Problem is, it's probably going to have wheels sitting underneath it. That is today's NFL.

    I think the days of winning and being proud left with "Get Paid" Samuel. Don't believe me? Ask Dunta Robinson and Michael Crabtree, hell probably long before them but I'm too tired to quote sources.

    At least the Patriots have one of the old school guys back on the roster. Seau will have the coffee made and be on his second cup before most of the team walks through the front door for practice.

    That's the kick in the a55 they need.


    -Mike in Katy, TX  

     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from JDonalds75. Show JDonalds75's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 9:07 PM EDT

    I cannot agree more on Gaffney and Maualuga (sp).  I think that if they took Maualuga at or near, and in place of, Ron Brace, our draft could have, possibly, otherwise been identical.  Maualuga is a stud, plain and simple.  I think Chung will produce well by year 3; look how "slowly" Merriweather, who turned a big corner last season, developed. 

    It doesn't make sense to compare Galloway with Harrison, because teams have passed on Harrison in large part due to his off-field issues, which, like Matt Jones, must be serious because so many of the 0-5 or 1-4 teams could use their talent.  Also, Galloway is barely getting hit by DBs - he is a problem of timing and route-running, which they can hopefully work through.  Hell, Moss only knew a go-route until he got to New England.

    Fragile Fred lived up to his reputation and you get what you expect with him.
     

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from CherokeeChief. Show CherokeeChief's posts

    Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats

    posted at 10/15/2009 9:18 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Poor Offseason Decisions Hurt Pats:
    Yeah it's possible to build a really strong house gathering all the right materials. Problem is, it's probably going to have wheels sitting underneath it. That is today's NFL. I think the days of winning and being proud left with "Get Paid" Samuel. Don't believe me? Ask Dunta Robinson and Michael Crabtree, hell probably long before them but I'm too tired to quote sources. At least the Patriots have one of the old school guys back on the roster. Seau will have the coffee made and be on his second cup before most of the team walks through the front door for practice. That's the kick in the a55 they need. -Mike in Katy, TX  
    Posted by BigPapi61