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Post Draft Blues

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to newenglanderinexile's comment:

     

    In response to Brady2Welker47's comment:

     

    I will answer that question for you.

     

    BC most of us are tired of NE and BB trading down for solid players and not going for the can't miss type of player...We are all well aware of Brady's window closing and.we would prefer going all in..quality over Quantity...I love what BB has done and I understand that BC of him the Pats have continued excellence but the Brady window is closing and we would like impact players..just an opinion ..go Pats!!!

    So who are these can't miss impact players available at the very end of the first round, where the Patriots usually pick?  If the draft is such an easy matter, how come some NFL teams have never even been in a Super Bowl?   

     RESPONSE:
         You may find this portion of the following article of interest:

    New England Patriots – Yeah, yeah, Bill Belichick is the smartest coach who has ever lived and I am nothing but a bumbling sports writer who should bow to his greatness. … Got any other good ones, Pats fans? Look, I'm one of Belichick's biggest fans in the media and one of the few who has defended many of his moves. At the same time, I'm perplexed by some of the things he does in the draft. From drafting too many guys to moving out of the draft at key moments, Belichick oftentimes is a guy who is too smart for his own good. The Pats traded out of the No. 29 spot even though safety Matt Elam was there and Elam fits the profile (hence, Baltimore took him three spots later). The Pats, who are entering the winter of Tom Brady's glorious career, need guys who can help NOW, not in three years. Sure, the Pats picked up a couple smart-guy receivers in second-rounder Aaron Dobson and Josh Boyce, but they would have gotten Dobson anyway and could have easily gotten Boyce with a lesser trade later. In other words, they bypassed Elam for no great reason. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--2013-nfl-draft-winners-losers--sam-bradford-fully-equipped--bill-belichick-thinking-too-hard-233525109.html

         Apparently, the Pats still thought that they were hurting at safety, even after signing Adrian Wilson, and spending the 48th overall pick in last years' draft on Tavon Wilson...so much so that they spent the 91st overall pick to reach for more help at safety, in Harmon. At #29, they could have solidified the SS position by drafting the highly rated Matt Elam of Florida. Elam was eventually taken 32nd overall by the Ravens, and is projected to start for them. Is Harmon a projected starter? How many more draft choices are the Patriots going to squander on their secondary?

         Lets' see now...they spent their 24th overal pick in 2007 on safety Brandon Meriweather, their 62nd overall pick in 2008 on Terrence Wheatley, their 34th and 41st overall picks on Patrick Chung and Darius Butler in 2009, their 33rd overall pick on Ras-I Dowling in 2011, their 48th overall selection on Tavon Wilson in 2012, and their 91st overall pick on Harmon this year.

         The Pats used their 48th overall pick last year on Tavon Wilson, and signed free agent Adrian Wilson...yet BB still thought that he had such a problem there, that he felt inclined to reach for Harmon at #91. Cole's point is if the team felt a need to use such a high choice to reach for yet another safety...why not just solidify the position with Elam...who can step in and play immediately? WR Dobson could have been had at #59. 

          What Cole doesn't consider is that Collins likely would not have lasted to pick #91. But, his point is that the Pats needed to draft impact players, since the Pats window of opportunity is closing. 

        

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to tanbass's comment:

    The bottom line is that Mr know it all TP gets all upset about 1 pick that wasn't on anyone's radar. He cried for months after we drafted Tavon last year, and here we go again.

    Here's a couple of reality check for you Mr know it all.... The Pats draft unknowns EVERY YEAR....get over it.

    Just because most rational fans aren't crying like you doesn't mean that BB is God in our eyes. We do however know that there is not a better person in the NFL at the position to have in our corner. Apparently, year after year, you feel that your picks would have been better. Perhaps you should apply for Nick's job?

    So go brush your teeth big boy, and kiss the poster of yourself good night....



         What a hopeless homer...LOL!!!     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    Maybe I'm the lost guy here, but though  I had no idea who Harmon was  I had heard of Brandon Jones and Logan Ryan as they had distinguished themselves very well while at Rutgers,Harmon played in the box and made the tackles while Jones and Ryan ballhawked. So you have to look at all aspects of the draft and UDFA's and then include FA signings along with returning players before you can evaluate the make up of the team. Last year when they drafted T.Wilson everyone lost it...

    RESPONSE: WHAT??? According to Tanass and the other homers, I thought that I was the only one who lost it...because "The rational people" understand that BB always picks unknowns, and accepts that"...LOL!!!

    but what they didn't get was they may have reached for Tavon but the got Dennard for a 7th round pk! So flip the two guys and you have the proper position of The acquisition. The same thing holds true again this year, they take the unknown Harmon in the 3rd round  and pick up Jones as a UDFA reverse the two guys would you be happy?

    RESPONSE: Come on, Sports...your better than that. Just because a team gets lucky in round 7 doesn't excuse a horrible reach in the earlier rounds.

    By the way Jones signed as an undrafted FA, here's a little of what his 2012 stats looked like 5 int's,9 passes defended,I don't have his tackle stats but that alone is an outstanding season. So it's not the where you are taken that counts, it's what you do with the opportunity!

    RESPONSE: If Jones is so great, then why didn't BB pick him at #91...and why wasn't he drafted?




     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to tanbass's comment:

     

    The bottom line is that Mr know it all TP gets all upset about 1 pick that wasn't on anyone's radar. He cried for months after we drafted Tavon last year, and here we go again.

    Here's a couple of reality check for you Mr know it all.... The Pats draft unknowns EVERY YEAR....get over it.

    Just because most rational fans aren't crying like you doesn't mean that BB is God in our eyes. We do however know that there is not a better person in the NFL at the position to have in our corner. Apparently, year after year, you feel that your picks would have been better. Perhaps you should apply for Nick's job?

    So go brush your teeth big boy, and kiss the poster of yourself good night....

     



         What a hopeless homer...LOL!!!     

     



    So not freaking out and crying about one questionable pick makes me a hopeless homer huh?

    Billiant TP!! Simply brilliant.

    Should we all buy stock in Kleenex this month since you will be crying about 1 pick for the next 2-3 months? I guess I'd rather be a homer than a whiney little school girl who didn't get his way....

    Keep enjoying the misery train.....I see how we have it so bad here in NE!! Moron!!

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    Probably just another Rusty account.

     




    Hardly....just very tired of all the crying & whining here.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:


    Big deal. Some are scrutinizing a guy who has a checkered draft history. Don't squeeze out a kitten over it.

     



    You mean like all you fools that are crying their eyes out over 1 questionable pick? Spare me.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsiefan. Show pumpsiefan's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    It was an underwhelming draft at best, though it is possible to talk yourself into believing in the upside of Collins and Dobson.

    Personally, I was disappointed in not getting Carredine because I thought he had the most upside of any player outside the top 15. We'll see.

    It was interesting to see some of the players who were loved on this board - specifically Jesse Williams and Da'Rick Rogers fall so far.

    Do I wish we could switch drafts with the 49ers - you bet I do. But we have to live with this so time to swallow it and move on.

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    .....

    You have NEVER won an argument with me here. NEVER. Not a single one. I own you. I always have. I always will. And your goofy little fake accounts can't change that.

     

    You're starting to sound like a Taylor Swift song.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from IrishMob7. Show IrishMob7's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    How I see it:

    LOVE Ryan (top 60 value at 83, tough, fits scheme, GREAT #4 CB), Boyce (SMART, fast and tough in the 4th rd) and Beauharnais (4th-5th rd talent in rd 7, a leader, hitter and tackle machine) and the Blount trade (better than Bolden, adds nastiness)

    LIKE Dobson (is he smart enough?), Collins (does he have the motor and desire?) and Buchanan (will he revert to 2011 form? although gotta love 7th rd value)

    HATE Harmon

    The Pats could have traded down from 91 into the 100-115 range and picked up Barrett Jones or Alex Okafor as well as a 6th rd pick. A pass rush specialist or interior O-line depth was much more important than a 5th safety.

    Harmon would have been available in rd 6 around pick 175.

    same thing with Tavon Wilson last year. Nobody cares that he looked ok, or BB had him rated thatb high. He 99.99% would have been there in rd 4. you take Kendell Reyes and pick Wilson later on every day of the week and twice on Sunday.



    Good post but I really disagree with your Harmon assessment.  I think it's rather silly for fans, who have no inside connections whatsoever, to lecture and say that we could have traded down and still got the player BB wanted.  You do not know that.  Nobody here knows how other team's draft boards are ordered.  For all we know, Harmon could have been taken at the 92nd pick.  Same thing with Tavon last year.  Just because Moron Kiper and McShay had him listed as a lower round choice doesn't mean other NFL GM's and coaches had him pegged there as well.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    As I stated in the draft thread (go and look) my guess was that BB targeted three or four players in the 1st (Trufant, Rhodes, Reid, good DT with depth at position) and when those players were gone (and they were) I knew BB was going to trade down. I wanted DE, but frankly there may have been depth  at the position but I don't think there was a single DE with as much upside as Chandler last year so why not trade down. Also I said the Bills trade back into 1st to get a QB. Ideally the Bills 2nd was higher than the Vikes, but no way is a divisional opponent going to trade with BB (even though Manuel would have been there at 29). Part of trading down is finding value later in the draft and not wasting a 1st on a marginal player you can get late in the 2nd or 3rd.

    The media circus that surrounds the draft is always ready to annoint a draft winner(s) and a draft day loser(s). The simple truth is you can't properly evaluate a draft until approxiamately three years later. The media also plays a large role in determining the "impact" players. I like Kiper as much as the next guy, but do you rate his knowledge ahead of people like Ted Thompson, Belichick, Jerry Reese, and Ozzie (eg; people that have won SBs). I hope not.

    Now the Pats draft. People complained incessantly last year about the secondary and how the whole NFL was racking up yardage against the Pats pass D; and all belichick did was re-sign Talib, sign Adrian Wilson (2 yrs), sign Armstead (pass rush?), drafted LB/S hybrid (Collins) and draft 3 DBs in the first 5 rounds. It's pretty clear that BB is doing all he can to improve the secondary; if you thought he was going to sign Ronnie Lott and draft Deion, well, that was never going to happen and when the Pats trade down there is almost always a chorus jeers on this board. Even though some trades down have netted decent players.  For me the acquistions on D were about improving the pass rush and improving the 3rd down, nickel and dime defenses. BB is about situational football and a sub package coverage LB who can cover TEs or RBs is valuable even if he doesn't get 10+ sacks or 4+ INTs. Ryan might be the only DB drafted who can start in the near future, but that does not mean that you can't still acquire/draft players who are capable of playing well in certain situations (3rd and long). I want to reiterate that the higher the pick the greater the impact is  a concept often posited by draftniks and the media; the Pats (with their record) are seldom in a position to draft a top 5 impact player; that obviously does not preclude a player from being great all it does is slightly increase the expectation; high pick=high expectations (see Vikings this year). Belichick tried to improve his secondary and only time well tell if he did. Personally I see Ryan and Collins as potential starters and the other defensive players as sub-package or ST players. If BB wants to trade up for player he will (Jones, Mayo), if he doesn't then he can't find a partner or believes the value is in the later rounds.

    If the secondary was complaint #1 then WR depth (loss of Welker) was board complaint #2 or 3 (see pass rush). Dobson with sub 4.5 and great hands looks like he could be good, but good in this offense could mean catching 40-50 balls (is he going to take touches away from Amendola, healthy Gronk, and Hernandez I doubt it). If anything WR depth means Brady could easily have more options or at least different options in the pass game. In this respect you can complain that Belichick did not draft the WR you wanted, but he did draft and acquire WRs to improve the team. Calvin Johnson (or his caliber) was not in this draft and the Pats don't usually draft so high that they can grab the best WR (also high bust rate). It's a copycat league and now more teams are trying to grab a speed TE (Hern) and power TE (Gronk) to alter their sets. BB often makes the playoffs; he does not necessarily need impact players, but players he can use in different roles (spread, 3WR sets etc....).

    The 7th round guys often end up on the practice squad. Dennard appears is the exception rather than the norm.

    Overall I see this a depth draft. Depth for the secondary and depth at WR with good LB. I would have liked to see a OLineman, but BB has done an okay job, and ,as aforementioned, this draft will withstand better evaluation in two or three years. At best could yeild three starters; at worst some solid contributers, but no superstars.

    Sorry about the length guys.

     
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