Post Draft Blues

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    What matters, is that you realize you lost the elephant in the room debates.   That and you leaving the board so the real fans can have discussions in peace without you and your clique crapping on them, left and right.

     

     



    You live in a depraved fantasy world. They ban you over and over, but back you come. You infest the place with fake accounts to try to pretend your demented agenda has support.

    The only peace that will ever be found here is when they offer signups based only on ISP e-mails and ban by IP as well. Then when you and your fake accounts are eventually rooted out like an infection, the real fans can talk in relative peace.

    You have NEVER won an argument with me here. NEVER. Not a single one. I own you. I always have. I always will. And your goofy little fake accounts can't change that.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    .....

    You have NEVER won an argument with me here. NEVER. Not a single one. I own you. I always have. I always will. And your goofy little fake accounts can't change that.

     

    You're starting to sound like a Taylor Swift song.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from IrishMob7. Show IrishMob7's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    How I see it:

    LOVE Ryan (top 60 value at 83, tough, fits scheme, GREAT #4 CB), Boyce (SMART, fast and tough in the 4th rd) and Beauharnais (4th-5th rd talent in rd 7, a leader, hitter and tackle machine) and the Blount trade (better than Bolden, adds nastiness)

    LIKE Dobson (is he smart enough?), Collins (does he have the motor and desire?) and Buchanan (will he revert to 2011 form? although gotta love 7th rd value)

    HATE Harmon

    The Pats could have traded down from 91 into the 100-115 range and picked up Barrett Jones or Alex Okafor as well as a 6th rd pick. A pass rush specialist or interior O-line depth was much more important than a 5th safety.

    Harmon would have been available in rd 6 around pick 175.

    same thing with Tavon Wilson last year. Nobody cares that he looked ok, or BB had him rated thatb high. He 99.99% would have been there in rd 4. you take Kendell Reyes and pick Wilson later on every day of the week and twice on Sunday.



    Good post but I really disagree with your Harmon assessment.  I think it's rather silly for fans, who have no inside connections whatsoever, to lecture and say that we could have traded down and still got the player BB wanted.  You do not know that.  Nobody here knows how other team's draft boards are ordered.  For all we know, Harmon could have been taken at the 92nd pick.  Same thing with Tavon last year.  Just because Moron Kiper and McShay had him listed as a lower round choice doesn't mean other NFL GM's and coaches had him pegged there as well.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    As I stated in the draft thread (go and look) my guess was that BB targeted three or four players in the 1st (Trufant, Rhodes, Reid, good DT with depth at position) and when those players were gone (and they were) I knew BB was going to trade down. I wanted DE, but frankly there may have been depth  at the position but I don't think there was a single DE with as much upside as Chandler last year so why not trade down. Also I said the Bills trade back into 1st to get a QB. Ideally the Bills 2nd was higher than the Vikes, but no way is a divisional opponent going to trade with BB (even though Manuel would have been there at 29). Part of trading down is finding value later in the draft and not wasting a 1st on a marginal player you can get late in the 2nd or 3rd.

    The media circus that surrounds the draft is always ready to annoint a draft winner(s) and a draft day loser(s). The simple truth is you can't properly evaluate a draft until approxiamately three years later. The media also plays a large role in determining the "impact" players. I like Kiper as much as the next guy, but do you rate his knowledge ahead of people like Ted Thompson, Belichick, Jerry Reese, and Ozzie (eg; people that have won SBs). I hope not.

    Now the Pats draft. People complained incessantly last year about the secondary and how the whole NFL was racking up yardage against the Pats pass D; and all belichick did was re-sign Talib, sign Adrian Wilson (2 yrs), sign Armstead (pass rush?), drafted LB/S hybrid (Collins) and draft 3 DBs in the first 5 rounds. It's pretty clear that BB is doing all he can to improve the secondary; if you thought he was going to sign Ronnie Lott and draft Deion, well, that was never going to happen and when the Pats trade down there is almost always a chorus jeers on this board. Even though some trades down have netted decent players.  For me the acquistions on D were about improving the pass rush and improving the 3rd down, nickel and dime defenses. BB is about situational football and a sub package coverage LB who can cover TEs or RBs is valuable even if he doesn't get 10+ sacks or 4+ INTs. Ryan might be the only DB drafted who can start in the near future, but that does not mean that you can't still acquire/draft players who are capable of playing well in certain situations (3rd and long). I want to reiterate that the higher the pick the greater the impact is  a concept often posited by draftniks and the media; the Pats (with their record) are seldom in a position to draft a top 5 impact player; that obviously does not preclude a player from being great all it does is slightly increase the expectation; high pick=high expectations (see Vikings this year). Belichick tried to improve his secondary and only time well tell if he did. Personally I see Ryan and Collins as potential starters and the other defensive players as sub-package or ST players. If BB wants to trade up for player he will (Jones, Mayo), if he doesn't then he can't find a partner or believes the value is in the later rounds.

    If the secondary was complaint #1 then WR depth (loss of Welker) was board complaint #2 or 3 (see pass rush). Dobson with sub 4.5 and great hands looks like he could be good, but good in this offense could mean catching 40-50 balls (is he going to take touches away from Amendola, healthy Gronk, and Hernandez I doubt it). If anything WR depth means Brady could easily have more options or at least different options in the pass game. In this respect you can complain that Belichick did not draft the WR you wanted, but he did draft and acquire WRs to improve the team. Calvin Johnson (or his caliber) was not in this draft and the Pats don't usually draft so high that they can grab the best WR (also high bust rate). It's a copycat league and now more teams are trying to grab a speed TE (Hern) and power TE (Gronk) to alter their sets. BB often makes the playoffs; he does not necessarily need impact players, but players he can use in different roles (spread, 3WR sets etc....).

    The 7th round guys often end up on the practice squad. Dennard appears is the exception rather than the norm.

    Overall I see this a depth draft. Depth for the secondary and depth at WR with good LB. I would have liked to see a OLineman, but BB has done an okay job, and ,as aforementioned, this draft will withstand better evaluation in two or three years. At best could yeild three starters; at worst some solid contributers, but no superstars.

    Sorry about the length guys.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    .....

    You have NEVER won an argument with me here. NEVER. Not a single one. I own you. I always have. I always will. And your goofy little fake accounts can't change that.

     

     

     

    You're starting to sound like a Taylor Swift song.




    What position does he play?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to JohnHannahrulz's comment:

    As I stated in the draft thread (go and look) my guess was that BB targeted three or four players in the 1st (Trufant, Rhodes, Reid, good DT with depth at position) and when those players were gone (and they were) I knew BB was going to trade down. I wanted DE, but frankly there may have been depth  at the position but I don't think there was a single DE with as much upside as Chandler last year so why not trade down. Also I said the Bills trade back into 1st to get a QB. Ideally the Bills 2nd was higher than the Vikes, but no way is a divisional opponent going to trade with BB (even though Manuel would have been there at 29). Part of trading down is finding value later in the draft and not wasting a 1st on a marginal player you can get late in the 2nd or 3rd.

    The media circus that surrounds the draft is always ready to annoint a draft winner(s) and a draft day loser(s). The simple truth is you can't properly evaluate a draft until approxiamately three years later. The media also plays a large role in determining the "impact" players. I like Kiper as much as the next guy, but do you rate his knowledge ahead of people like Ted Thompson, Belichick, Jerry Reese, and Ozzie (eg; people that have won SBs). I hope not.

    Now the Pats draft. People complained incessantly last year about the secondary and how the whole NFL was racking up yardage against the Pats pass D; and all belichick did was re-sign Talib, sign Adrian Wilson (2 yrs), sign Armstead (pass rush?), drafted LB/S hybrid (Collins) and draft 3 DBs in the first 5 rounds. It's pretty clear that BB is doing all he can to improve the secondary; if you thought he was going to sign Ronnie Lott and draft Deion, well, that was never going to happen and when the Pats trade down there is almost always a chorus jeers on this board. Even though some trades down have netted decent players.  For me the acquistions on D were about improving the pass rush and improving the 3rd down, nickel and dime defenses. BB is about situational football and a sub package coverage LB who can cover TEs or RBs is valuable even if he doesn't get 10+ sacks or 4+ INTs. Ryan might be the only DB drafted who can start in the near future, but that does not mean that you can't still acquire/draft players who are capable of playing well in certain situations (3rd and long). I want to reiterate that the higher the pick the greater the impact is  a concept often posited by draftniks and the media; the Pats (with their record) are seldom in a position to draft a top 5 impact player; that obviously does not preclude a player from being great all it does is slightly increase the expectation; high pick=high expectations (see Vikings this year). Belichick tried to improve his secondary and only time well tell if he did. Personally I see Ryan and Collins as potential starters and the other defensive players as sub-package or ST players. If BB wants to trade up for player he will (Jones, Mayo), if he doesn't then he can't find a partner or believes the value is in the later rounds.

    If the secondary was complaint #1 then WR depth (loss of Welker) was board complaint #2 or 3 (see pass rush). Dobson with sub 4.5 and great hands looks like he could be good, but good in this offense could mean catching 40-50 balls (is he going to take touches away from Amendola, healthy Gronk, and Hernandez I doubt it). If anything WR depth means Brady could easily have more options or at least different options in the pass game. In this respect you can complain that Belichick did not draft the WR you wanted, but he did draft and acquire WRs to improve the team. Calvin Johnson (or his caliber) was not in this draft and the Pats don't usually draft so high that they can grab the best WR (also high bust rate). It's a copycat league and now more teams are trying to grab a speed TE (Hern) and power TE (Gronk) to alter their sets. BB often makes the playoffs; he does not necessarily need impact players, but players he can use in different roles (spread, 3WR sets etc....).

    The 7th round guys often end up on the practice squad. Dennard appears is the exception rather than the norm.

    Overall I see this a depth draft. Depth for the secondary and depth at WR with good LB. I would have liked to see a OLineman, but BB has done an okay job, and ,as aforementioned, this draft will withstand better evaluation in two or three years. At best could yeild three starters; at worst some solid contributers, but no superstars.

    Sorry about the length guys.




    Good job. Hard to argue with this take on things. We will see.

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    Let the guy have his opinion, challenge it respectfully with facts, move on.



    I would normally not even care, but just like last year, TP comes on here crying & moaning about 1 questionable pick. Last year he cried for months over Tavon....this year, same old thing. What is the point of freaking out over picks that NOBODY can say for sure whether they will work out or not?

    The "Fact" is that it's impossible to pass judgement on a rookie just because they didn't show up the "big names" list. It's is a "Fact" that it takes at least a year, or two to really make a judgement if a rookie is a bust or not. But pointing these facts out just results in being called a homer of whatever sort.....so I call these people out for the ridiculousness....nothing more. Looks like one more for the ignore button.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    What matters, is that you realize you lost the elephant in the room debates.   That and you leaving the board so the real fans can have discussions in peace without you and your clique crapping on them, left and right.

     

     

     



    You live in a depraved fantasy world. They ban you over and over, but back you come. You infest the place with fake accounts to try to pretend your demented agenda has support.

     

    The only peace that will ever be found here is when they offer signups based only on ISP e-mails and ban by IP as well. Then when you and your fake accounts are eventually rooted out like an infection, the real fans can talk in relative peace.

    You have NEVER won an argument with me here. NEVER. Not a single one. I own you. I always have. I always will. And your goofy little fake accounts can't change that.

     

     



    I've won many vs you and it goes back to 2011.  I said the D woudl be ready for the postseason, would Brady be?

     

    He wasn't. He was awful in the AFC title game and medicofe in the SB, melting down completely when the chips were on the table.

    It was my fear then, it's still my fear now and beyond until he changes it.

    So, that's one example as it is supported by his losses led by the shotgun spread addiction. which is an obvious clear failure.

     




    You call 0 for 4 in the red zone ready?    BWAHAAAA what a tool!

    Oh, and you can blame the lack of points on your gf Ridley who single handedly cost them 14 with his fumble and inability to get 1 yard in the ez and the 50/50 pass/run ratio that resulted in squat.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to JohnHannahrulz's comment:

    As I stated in the draft thread (go and look) my guess was that BB targeted three or four players in the 1st (Trufant, Rhodes, Reid, good DT with depth at position) and when those players were gone (and they were) I knew BB was going to trade down. I wanted DE, but frankly there may have been depth  at the position but I don't think there was a single DE with as much upside as Chandler last year so why not trade down. Also I said the Bills trade back into 1st to get a QB. Ideally the Bills 2nd was higher than the Vikes, but no way is a divisional opponent going to trade with BB (even though Manuel would have been there at 29). Part of trading down is finding value later in the draft and not wasting a 1st on a marginal player you can get late in the 2nd or 3rd.

    The media circus that surrounds the draft is always ready to annoint a draft winner(s) and a draft day loser(s). The simple truth is you can't properly evaluate a draft until approxiamately three years later. The media also plays a large role in determining the "impact" players. I like Kiper as much as the next guy, but do you rate his knowledge ahead of people like Ted Thompson, Belichick, Jerry Reese, and Ozzie (eg; people that have won SBs). I hope not.

    Now the Pats draft. People complained incessantly last year about the secondary and how the whole NFL was racking up yardage against the Pats pass D; and all belichick did was re-sign Talib, sign Adrian Wilson (2 yrs), sign Armstead (pass rush?), drafted LB/S hybrid (Collins) and draft 3 DBs in the first 5 rounds. It's pretty clear that BB is doing all he can to improve the secondary; if you thought he was going to sign Ronnie Lott and draft Deion, well, that was never going to happen and when the Pats trade down there is almost always a chorus jeers on this board. Even though some trades down have netted decent players.  For me the acquistions on D were about improving the pass rush and improving the 3rd down, nickel and dime defenses. BB is about situational football and a sub package coverage LB who can cover TEs or RBs is valuable even if he doesn't get 10+ sacks or 4+ INTs. Ryan might be the only DB drafted who can start in the near future, but that does not mean that you can't still acquire/draft players who are capable of playing well in certain situations (3rd and long). I want to reiterate that the higher the pick the greater the impact is  a concept often posited by draftniks and the media; the Pats (with their record) are seldom in a position to draft a top 5 impact player; that obviously does not preclude a player from being great all it does is slightly increase the expectation; high pick=high expectations (see Vikings this year). Belichick tried to improve his secondary and only time well tell if he did. Personally I see Ryan and Collins as potential starters and the other defensive players as sub-package or ST players. If BB wants to trade up for player he will (Jones, Mayo), if he doesn't then he can't find a partner or believes the value is in the later rounds.

    If the secondary was complaint #1 then WR depth (loss of Welker) was board complaint #2 or 3 (see pass rush). Dobson with sub 4.5 and great hands looks like he could be good, but good in this offense could mean catching 40-50 balls (is he going to take touches away from Amendola, healthy Gronk, and Hernandez I doubt it). If anything WR depth means Brady could easily have more options or at least different options in the pass game. In this respect you can complain that Belichick did not draft the WR you wanted, but he did draft and acquire WRs to improve the team. Calvin Johnson (or his caliber) was not in this draft and the Pats don't usually draft so high that they can grab the best WR (also high bust rate). It's a copycat league and now more teams are trying to grab a speed TE (Hern) and power TE (Gronk) to alter their sets. BB often makes the playoffs; he does not necessarily need impact players, but players he can use in different roles (spread, 3WR sets etc....).

    The 7th round guys often end up on the practice squad. Dennard appears is the exception rather than the norm.

    Overall I see this a depth draft. Depth for the secondary and depth at WR with good LB. I would have liked to see a OLineman, but BB has done an okay job, and ,as aforementioned, this draft will withstand better evaluation in two or three years. At best could yeild three starters; at worst some solid contributers, but no superstars.

    Sorry about the length guys.



    Hannah - I agree with pretty much everything. I do think that while Dobson's upside is HUGE we might end up seeing more of Boyce in their first 1-2 years.

    Also - a point which is lost on fast food minds is that good teams are good and so they do not start rookies so much except where the player is exceptional or they are otherwise not strong in that spot. The Pats let their players work up to being competent in the systems and roles....

    This is a solid team and now even more solid. But there is ALSO some huge upside in many areas (like Dobson as well as a number of others... who will be trumpeting how they always loved Hightower as he fills out and grows into a very big part of this improving D?)

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:


    I've won many vs you and it goes back to 2011.  I said the D woudl be ready for the postseason, would Brady be?

     

    He wasn't. He was awful in the AFC title game and medicofe in the SB, melting down completely when the chips were on the table.

     


    Idiotic nonsense, as usual.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    This draft was nothing to write home about. We picked up middle tier players who have potential to become better. I lke the big WR, but wonder why BB went small again.

    There may be some diamonds in the rough, we'll have to wait and see.

    Looks like BB likes Rutgers.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to portfolio1's comment:

    In response to JohnHannahrulz's comment:

     

    As I stated in the draft thread (go and look) my guess was that BB targeted three or four players in the 1st (Trufant, Rhodes, Reid, good DT with depth at position) and when those players were gone (and they were) I knew BB was going to trade down. I wanted DE, but frankly there may have been depth  at the position but I don't think there was a single DE with as much upside as Chandler last year so why not trade down. Also I said the Bills trade back into 1st to get a QB. Ideally the Bills 2nd was higher than the Vikes, but no way is a divisional opponent going to trade with BB (even though Manuel would have been there at 29). Part of trading down is finding value later in the draft and not wasting a 1st on a marginal player you can get late in the 2nd or 3rd.

    The media circus that surrounds the draft is always ready to annoint a draft winner(s) and a draft day loser(s). The simple truth is you can't properly evaluate a draft until approxiamately three years later. The media also plays a large role in determining the "impact" players. I like Kiper as much as the next guy, but do you rate his knowledge ahead of people like Ted Thompson, Belichick, Jerry Reese, and Ozzie (eg; people that have won SBs). I hope not.

    Now the Pats draft. People complained incessantly last year about the secondary and how the whole NFL was racking up yardage against the Pats pass D; and all belichick did was re-sign Talib, sign Adrian Wilson (2 yrs), sign Armstead (pass rush?), drafted LB/S hybrid (Collins) and draft 3 DBs in the first 5 rounds. It's pretty clear that BB is doing all he can to improve the secondary; if you thought he was going to sign Ronnie Lott and draft Deion, well, that was never going to happen and when the Pats trade down there is almost always a chorus jeers on this board. Even though some trades down have netted decent players.  For me the acquistions on D were about improving the pass rush and improving the 3rd down, nickel and dime defenses. BB is about situational football and a sub package coverage LB who can cover TEs or RBs is valuable even if he doesn't get 10+ sacks or 4+ INTs. Ryan might be the only DB drafted who can start in the near future, but that does not mean that you can't still acquire/draft players who are capable of playing well in certain situations (3rd and long). I want to reiterate that the higher the pick the greater the impact is  a concept often posited by draftniks and the media; the Pats (with their record) are seldom in a position to draft a top 5 impact player; that obviously does not preclude a player from being great all it does is slightly increase the expectation; high pick=high expectations (see Vikings this year). Belichick tried to improve his secondary and only time well tell if he did. Personally I see Ryan and Collins as potential starters and the other defensive players as sub-package or ST players. If BB wants to trade up for player he will (Jones, Mayo), if he doesn't then he can't find a partner or believes the value is in the later rounds.

    If the secondary was complaint #1 then WR depth (loss of Welker) was board complaint #2 or 3 (see pass rush). Dobson with sub 4.5 and great hands looks like he could be good, but good in this offense could mean catching 40-50 balls (is he going to take touches away from Amendola, healthy Gronk, and Hernandez I doubt it). If anything WR depth means Brady could easily have more options or at least different options in the pass game. In this respect you can complain that Belichick did not draft the WR you wanted, but he did draft and acquire WRs to improve the team. Calvin Johnson (or his caliber) was not in this draft and the Pats don't usually draft so high that they can grab the best WR (also high bust rate). It's a copycat league and now more teams are trying to grab a speed TE (Hern) and power TE (Gronk) to alter their sets. BB often makes the playoffs; he does not necessarily need impact players, but players he can use in different roles (spread, 3WR sets etc....).

    The 7th round guys often end up on the practice squad. Dennard appears is the exception rather than the norm.

    Overall I see this a depth draft. Depth for the secondary and depth at WR with good LB. I would have liked to see a OLineman, but BB has done an okay job, and ,as aforementioned, this draft will withstand better evaluation in two or three years. At best could yeild three starters; at worst some solid contributers, but no superstars.

    Sorry about the length guys.

     



    Hannah - I agree with pretty much everything. I do think that while Dobson's upside is HUGE we might end up seeing more of Boyce in their first 1-2 years.

     

    Also - a point which is lost on fast food minds is that good teams are good and so they do not start rookies so much except where the player is exceptional or they are otherwise not strong in that spot. The Pats let their players work up to being competent in the systems and roles....

    This is a solid team and now even more solid. But there is ALSO some huge upside in many areas (like Dobson as well as a number of others... who will be trumpeting how they always loved Hightower as he fills out and grows into a very big part of this improving D?)

     




    Agree. If you have a great veteran defense it will be hard to crack the starting line-up (see Oscar Lua in 4th? in 06/07). I really don't expect the Pats to draft an ILB that is going to supplant Mayo his rookie year....totally an unrealistic expectation. Hightower can play both OLB/ILB and can be used in blitz packages and is a good run defender. The defense is still relatively young (compare to Ravens or Steelers 2012 roster) and learning IMHO.

     

    Agree on the WRs. I was at wedding pretty much the whole weekend and got draft updates on my iPhone (not the best way) Collins is clearly an LB not a DB. And there were only 2 drafted.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

     

    Hi there TP! i respect ur draft breakdwns so...how did my jints do in ur opinion?

     



         Hey Jints! Here's are the guys that the Giants selected:

     

    1 (19) - Justin Pugh, OL, Syracuse; 2 (49) - Johnathan Hankins, DT, Ohio State; 3 (81) - Damontre Moore, DE, Texas A&M; 4 (110) - Ryan Nassib, QB, Syracuse; 5 (152) - Cooper Taylor, S, Richmond; 7 (225) - Eric Herman, OG, Ohio; 7 (253) - Michael Cox, RB, UMass

         Here's my take on their picks:

    1.) OT/OG Justin Pugh: I don't believe that a team should draft for need...but should always take the best player available, unless the value difference between a player in a position of need and the best available player is not that great. The Giants chose to draft for need, as they bypassed more talented players, such as DT Sharrif Floyd, TE Tyler Eifert, CB Xavier Rhodes, and LB Alec Ogletree, to select Pugh. The early run on offensive lineman may have led G/M Jerry Reese to panic somewhat, and select Pugh with the 19th overall pick. Thus, a second round talent went mid-way in the first round. He is projected to play OG in the league. Here are some reviews on him: OurLads Scouting: Smart, athletic and tough...but short arms and marginal size for a pro OT prohibit him from playing LT in the NFL; ProFootballWeekly cited Pugh as an offensive lineman with athleticism and quick feet...but one who is hampered by his extremely short arms, and average power base. These physical shortcomings lead them to believe that he'll have a hard time succeeding as an OT...and that he'll probably will end up being moved inside to OG; Mel Kiper: was high on Pugh, giving him a 2nd or late first round grade. But, as reflected in the aforementioned publications, his short arms are a concern, and the reason why most see him as a better candidate for an OG...but also believed that Pugh could manage at RT. BOTTOM LINE: Pugh was not a bad pick. Job One with the G-men is to protect Eli Manning. Look for the Giants to start Pugh at RT initially. 

    2.) DT Johnathan Hankins: G/M Jerry Reese addressed the need on the middle of the DL in round two, tabbing Hankins. The problem here is that Hankins is best suited as a 3-4 NT, than a 4-3 DT. He appears to be a two down run stuffer, with limited pass rushing skills. But, OurLads Scouting and Kiper were optimistic about him being capable of being more than just a run stuffer...pointing out that he was constantly being double-teamed, which limited his production. Time will tell on this guy. He appears to be a boom or bust type;

    3.) DE/OLB Damontre Moore: Fairly high risk, but sky-high reward pick, with their 81st overall selection. Moore has the ability to become an elite pass-rusher. But, maturity issues have limited him...and must be overcome. OurLads listed him as a second-third round, boom or bust prospect, basing this on the following "...Moore didn't finish drills at the Combine or at the Texas A&M pro day. Questions concerning his mental toughness and lack or preparation are bothersome. There are attitude and off field red flags hanging over his potential career." If the Giants can get his attention, they may have another Justin Tuck on their hands. If not, say hello to the second coming of Vernon Gholston;

    4.)  QB Ryan Nassib: Potentially the best QB from this class. Is tough, has a cannon for an arm, and is a leader. Though some of the homers here whine that the Patriots didn't need another QB with Brady aboard, notwithstanding that the Terrific One turns 36 this year. What those clowns don't understand is that you never stop developing the QB position. Even if Nassib never plays for the Giants, if he shows well in preseason games, he can be flipped for some premium draft picks, as was the case with Matt Schaub, Matt Cassel, Kevin Kolb, and David Whitehurst. Great value pick with the 110th overall selection;

    5.) S Cooper Taylor: A huge safety/LB type. Stands 6'4", 229 lbs.. Athletic and physical player. But, medical concerns caused him to drop, as he was diagnosed with Wolff-Parkinson-White Syndrome (whatever that is) during his sophomore year at Georgia Tech. It led to him  transferring to play at the University of Richmond...and, along is the main reason why he is not highly sought after;

    6.)  OG Eric Herman:  A hard working, athletic guy. But, like Pugh, has short arms, which limit him to OG play. Rated as a 7th round, developmental talent;

    7.) RB Michael Cox:  Cox is not listed in any of the publications I read. Giants return to UMass, hoping that lightning strikes twice at the school where they found WR Victor Cruz.   

         To summarize my friend, I liked the fact that the Giants for the most part took their cuts. Whether they connect like Mickey Mantle or like Steve Balboni remains to be seen. They reached a bit for Justin Pugh. With Sherrif Floyd available, he may have been the better choice. Pugh should be a good player for them...but Floyd has a chance to be another Warren Sapp, and seems to be a perfect fit in the Giants defense system. As for Hankins, I see him to potentially be limited to a two down, run-stuffer. Damontre Moore is a boom or bust type...but worth the risk with the 81st overall pick. Pugh will be solid. But, how Hankins and Moore perform will define this draft. As stated above, I loved the Nassib pick...and wish that the Patriots had tabbed him or Matt Barkley with the 91st overall choice, rather than monumentally reaching for another safety. I give the Giants a "B-" grade, overall.        

         What's your opinion on how the Giants fared?   

     

     


     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

     

    Hi there TP! i respect ur draft breakdwns so...how did my jints do in ur opinion?

     



         Hey Jints! Here's are the guys that the Giants selected:

     

    1 (19) - Justin Pugh, OL, Syracuse; 2 (49) - Johnathan Hankins, DT, Ohio State; 3 (81) - Damontre Moore, DE, Texas A&M; 4 (110) - Ryan Nassib, QB, Syracuse; 5 (152) - Cooper Taylor, S, Richmond; 7 (225) - Eric Herman, OG, Ohio; 7 (253) - Michael Cox, RB, UMass

         Here's my take on their picks:

    1.) OT/OG Justin Pugh: I don't believe that a team should draft for need...but should always take the best player available, unless the value difference between a player in a position of need and the best available player is not that great. The Giants chose to draft for need, as they bypassed more talented players, such as DT Sharrif Floyd, TE Tyler Eifert, CB Xavier Rhodes, and LB Alec Ogletree, to select Pugh. The early run on offensive lineman may have led G/M Jerry Reese to panic somewhat, and select Pugh with the 19th overall pick. Thus, a second round talent went mid-way in the first round. He is projected to play OG in the league. Here are some reviews on him: OurLads Scouting: Smart, athletic and tough...but short arms and marginal size for a pro OT prohibit him from playing LT in the NFL; ProFootballWeekly cited Pugh as an offensive lineman with athleticism and quick feet...but one who is hampered by his extremely short arms, and average power base. These physical shortcomings lead them to believe that he'll have a hard time succeeding as an OT...and that he'll probably will end up being moved inside to OG; Mel Kiper: was high on Pugh, giving him a 2nd or late first round grade. But, as reflected in the aforementioned publications, his short arms are a concern, and the reason why most see him as a better candidate for an OG...but also believed that Pugh could manage at RT. BOTTOM LINE: Pugh was not a bad pick. Job One with the G-men is to protect Eli Manning. Look for the Giants to start Pugh at RT initially. 

    2.) DT Johnathan Hankins: G/M Jerry Reese addressed the need on the middle of the DL in round two, tabbing Hankins. The problem here is that Hankins is best suited as a 3-4 NT, than a 4-3 DT. He appears to be a two down run stuffer, with limited pass rushing skills. But, OurLads Scouting and Kiper were optimistic about him being capable of being more than just a run stuffer...pointing out that he was constantly being double-teamed, which limited his production. Time will tell on this guy. He appears to be a boom or bust type;

    3.) DE/OLB Damontre Moore: Fairly high risk, but sky-high reward pick, with their 81st overall selection. Moore has the ability to become an elite pass-rusher. But, maturity issues have limited him...and must be overcome. OurLads listed him as a second-third round, boom or bust prospect, basing this on the following "...Moore didn't finish drills at the Combine or at the Texas A&M pro day. Questions concerning his mental toughness and lack or preparation are bothersome. There are attitude and off field red flags hanging over his potential career." If the Giants can get his attention, they may have another Justin Tuck on their hands. If not, say hello to the second coming of Vernon Gholston;

    4.)  QB Ryan Nassib: Potentially the best QB from this class. Is tough, has a cannon for an arm, and is a leader. Though some of the homers here whine that the Patriots didn't need another QB with Brady aboard, notwithstanding that the Terrific One turns 36 this year. What those clowns don't understand is that you never stop developing the QB position. Even if Nassib never plays for the Giants, if he shows well in preseason games, he can be flipped for some premium draft picks, as was the case with Matt Schaub, Matt Cassel, Kevin Kolb, and David Whitehurst. Great value pick with the 110th overall selection;

    5.) S Cooper Taylor: A huge safety/LB type. Stands 6'4", 229 lbs.. Athletic and physical player. But, medical concerns caused him to drop, as he was diagnosed with Wolff-Parkinson-White Syndrome (whatever that is) during his sophomore year at Georgia Tech. It led to him  transferring to play at the University of Richmond...and, along is the main reason why he is not highly sought after;

    6.)  OG Eric Herman:  A hard working, athletic guy. But, like Pugh, has short arms, which limit him to OG play. Rated as a 7th round, developmental talent;

    7.) RB Michael Cox:  Cox is not listed in any of the publications I read. Giants return to UMass, hoping that lightning strikes twice at the school where they found WR Victor Cruz.   

         To summarize my friend, I liked the fact that the Giants for the most part took their cuts. Whether they connect like Mickey Mantle or like Steve Balboni remains to be seen. They reached a bit for Justin Pugh. With Sherrif Floyd available, he may have been the better choice. Pugh should be a good player for them...but Floyd has a chance to be another Warren Sapp, and seems to be a perfect fit in the Giants defense system. As for Hankins, I see him to potentially be limited to a two down, run-stuffer. Damontre Moore is a boom or bust type...but worth the risk with the 81st overall pick. Pugh will be solid. But, how Hankins and Moore perform will define this draft. As stated above, I loved the Nassib pick...and wish that the Patriots had tabbed him or Matt Barkley with the 91st overall choice, rather than monumentally reaching for another safety. I give the Giants a "B-" grade, overall.        

         What's your opinion on how the Giants fared?   

     

     


     

     




    well broken down

    i like the first 3 picks and i do think they based this draft on immediate holes as much or more than the future-the D was the problem not really the O last yr

    so i am glad they went defense and stuck to OL only for offense as thats all thats needed really on that side of the ball with the return of a healthy nicks-i believe they have players to step into the 3rd WR and TE spots

    gotta trust reese's eye for talent and coughlin's ability to get the most out of it-i do think most of these players will make some impact this yr, especially pugh and moore

    overall i say a solid B and typical giants type draft

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from seymonster. Show seymonster's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to digger0862's comment:

     

    When your own gut opinions tell you that you can draft better than Belichick, it's time to stop listening to your gut.

     




    Really, could a blindfolded monkey holding a dart and tossing it at a board with names pinned to it do much worse?

     




    maybe the other 31 teams are using the monkey method, because they have all done worse.

     

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to IrishMob7's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    How I see it:

    LOVE Ryan (top 60 value at 83, tough, fits scheme, GREAT #4 CB), Boyce (SMART, fast and tough in the 4th rd) and Beauharnais (4th-5th rd talent in rd 7, a leader, hitter and tackle machine) and the Blount trade (better than Bolden, adds nastiness)

    LIKE Dobson (is he smart enough?), Collins (does he have the motor and desire?) and Buchanan (will he revert to 2011 form? although gotta love 7th rd value)

    HATE Harmon

    The Pats could have traded down from 91 into the 100-115 range and picked up Barrett Jones or Alex Okafor as well as a 6th rd pick. A pass rush specialist or interior O-line depth was much more important than a 5th safety.

    Harmon would have been available in rd 6 around pick 175.

    same thing with Tavon Wilson last year. Nobody cares that he looked ok, or BB had him rated thatb high. He 99.99% would have been there in rd 4. you take Kendell Reyes and pick Wilson later on every day of the week and twice on Sunday.



    Good post but I really disagree with your Harmon assessment.  I think it's rather silly for fans, who have no inside connections whatsoever, to lecture and say that we could have traded down and still got the player BB wanted.  You do not know that.  Nobody here knows how other team's draft boards are ordered.  For all we know, Harmon could have been taken at the 92nd pick.  Same thing with Tavon last year.  Just because Moron Kiper and McShay had him listed as a lower round choice doesn't mean other NFL GM's and coaches had him pegged there as well.



    Irish pretty much sums up my view of this year's draft as well as the speculation (and that is what it is) that BB could have had pick X further down the draft.  There is absoutely no way of knowing that.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    By my count, your original premise is totally untrue. Most do not feel disappointed in this draft. How do you respond to that TexasPat



         By your count??? I recommend that you go back and review the last 2-3 pages on the forum. You'll find many posters questioning BB's draft selections. You'll also observe zero threads from exubberant posters, crowing in delight about how the Pats improved as a result of their draft choices. 

         This forum is the place for Pats fans to give their opinions on the team. But homers like yourself wish to muzzle complaints about BB and the team by resorting to personal attacks.  All I can tell you is that I sincerely hope that you homers are right. I'll be more than happy to admit to being wrong...should guys like Harmon and Tavon Wilson pan out. Unfortunately...  

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BigCoffinChris. Show BigCoffinChris's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    Good morning

    You have to remember that the draft was deep in talent and even before the draft there were no real stand outs. I like how the team drafted and I'm pretty stoked to see what unfolds.

    It will be interesting to see how Brady connects with a 6-3 210 fast WR. and adding a LB that can cover the middle is huge because that has been a weekness.

    The other thing that everyone has to remember is that we had a few real good rookies last year.They are all coming back in good health for camp and training and we have brought in one hell of a safety to help add some leadership. This is the year the defense turns the corner.

    Just my opinion but I this is going to be a good season.

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to kansaspatriot's comment:

    This draft was nothing to write home about. We picked up middle tier players who have potential to become better. I lke the big WR, but wonder why BB went small again.

    There may be some diamonds in the rough, we'll have to wait and see.

    Looks like BB likes Rutgers.

     




    Very good cut through the crapola assessment kp.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to IrishMob7's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

     

    How I see it:

    LOVE Ryan (top 60 value at 83, tough, fits scheme, GREAT #4 CB), Boyce (SMART, fast and tough in the 4th rd) and Beauharnais (4th-5th rd talent in rd 7, a leader, hitter and tackle machine) and the Blount trade (better than Bolden, adds nastiness)

    LIKE Dobson (is he smart enough?), Collins (does he have the motor and desire?) and Buchanan (will he revert to 2011 form? although gotta love 7th rd value)

    HATE Harmon

    The Pats could have traded down from 91 into the 100-115 range and picked up Barrett Jones or Alex Okafor as well as a 6th rd pick. A pass rush specialist or interior O-line depth was much more important than a 5th safety.

    Harmon would have been available in rd 6 around pick 175.

    same thing with Tavon Wilson last year. Nobody cares that he looked ok, or BB had him rated thatb high. He 99.99% would have been there in rd 4. you take Kendell Reyes and pick Wilson later on every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

     



    Good post but I really disagree with your Harmon assessment.  I think it's rather silly for fans, who have no inside connections whatsoever, to lecture and say that we could have traded down and still got the player BB wanted.  You do not know that.  Nobody here knows how other team's draft boards are ordered.  For all we know, Harmon could have been taken at the 92nd pick.  Same thing with Tavon last year.  Just because Moron Kiper and McShay had him listed as a lower round choice doesn't mean other NFL GM's and coaches had him pegged there as well.

     



    True... he COULD have gone before we picked in later rounds. Same with Wilson. but this was a consensus high riser from maybe UDFA status to 6th-7th consideration... NOT 3rd. It is 99% sure we could have gotten him in the 4th-5th and the point is that we didn't need a 5th-6th safety over O-line or DT help at that point.

    Same with Wilson. So he was rated a 6th-7th rd pick by EVERYONE (not just Kiper/McShay) so why take him in the 2nd when its 99% sure he will be there in the 3rd or 4th at least? Safety was a need last year b/c they blew getting Goldson. but Kendell Reyes or Devon Still were better options in area of just as big a need.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to seymonster's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to digger0862's comment:

     

    When your own gut opinions tell you that you can draft better than Belichick, it's time to stop listening to your gut.

     




    Really, could a blindfolded monkey holding a dart and tossing it at a board with names pinned to it do much worse?

     

     




     

    maybe the other 31 teams are using the monkey method, because they have all done worse.

     

     




    I doubt the Giants, Steelers, Ravens, Packers, Saints or Colts would swap their last 8 years for our last 8 years.

    And.... not many teams are all that eager to be either losing a SB or a Conference Championship every other year.

    So much for your claim that they all have done worse.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    So we grab Rutgers players, no one has a problem when we grab Florida players or Alabama players. Wait next year it'll be OSU players. I'm glad we got a book end for Jones and some WR's for Brady. the rest of the players are a bonus.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to kansaspatriot's comment:

     

    This draft was nothing to write home about. We picked up middle tier players who have potential to become better. I lke the big WR, but wonder why BB went small again.

    There may be some diamonds in the rough, we'll have to wait and see.

    Looks like BB likes Rutgers.

     

     




    Very good cut through the crapola assessment kp.

     

     




    Nice to see you're back

     
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