Post Draft Blues

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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    You can't use NEP's success at getting to the playoffs as the ultimate proof that they draft well. Teamwork and execution are big factors that good coaching can bring to elevate the performance of a collection of lesser talents.

     




         What these idiot homers refuse to understand is that the brilliance of BB as a coach, and of Brady as a QB, have camoflagued the many drafting errors that BB has made. As Brady continues to age, the cracks caused by so many wasted high picks will begin to show.   

     

     




    Tell it brother Pat!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

         Here's an article which argues that Duron Harmon was actually well worth the 91st overall pick: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1624721-new-england-patriots-in-defense-of-duron-harmon

         Folks...this just goes to show how a skilled writer can find discover and mold a set of stats and numbers, to formulate any position. It also shows the great lengths that the esteemed members of the Ostrich Society, manned by tanass and his hopeless homer buds, will go to back BB in all things. A reliable source has indeed confirmed that the Society shelled out some big bucks to get this article written!

         LOL!!!    

         Seriously, I agree with most deverything in the article, except the part about "there be no guarantees that Harmon would be around in the 6th or 7th round". BS. Folks...sometimes strategic gambles have to be made. The odds were in the Pats' favor that Harmon would have been around much, much later. Sorry you homers...but BB had better options available to him at pick #91 than Harmon. Nor am I buying that BB could not find a trade partner with whom to trade down.   

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

         What these idiot homers refuse to understand is that the brilliance of BB as a coach, and of Brady as a QB, have camoflagued the many drafting errors that BB has made. As Brady continues to age, the cracks caused by so many wasted high picks will begin to show.    



    Spare me.  You have been saying this for practically forever and it has yet to happen.  The team will eventually struggle by definition and then I am sure you will dance around here telling us you saw it all coming.  Literally every metric ranging from the team's record, to starters drafted, to all pros drafted, to pro bowlers drafted, to the overall value of players drafted per some sort of statistic like CarAV on profootballreference says that BB has been one of the better GMs in the league since he came to NE.  You have literally no evidence (except harping on a few picks you didn't like) to support your claim.  Guess what genius?  Every GM has bad drafts.  Does Ozzie Newsome suck because of his drafts in 2004 and 2005.  Does Kevin Colbert suck because of his drafts in 2008 and 2011?  Does Ted Thompson suck because of his drafts in 2007 and 2010?  I could go on all day.  Good personnel men have bad drafts.  It happens.  Learn to deal with it instead of playing a dam drama queen and screaming till you are blue in the face about how BB is ruining the team.

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

     

         What these idiot homers refuse to understand is that the brilliance of BB as a coach, and of Brady as a QB, have camoflagued the many drafting errors that BB has made. As Brady continues to age, the cracks caused by so many wasted high picks will begin to show.    

     



     

    Spare me.  You have been saying this for practically forever and it has yet to happen.

    RESPONSE: What a croc...LOL!!! Has Tom Brady turned 36 before? But, that's okay homer...go ahead and keep that head of your firmly planted in the sand.

     The team will eventually struggle by definition and then I am sure you will dance around here telling us you saw it all coming.

    RESPONSE: LOL!!! That's why I was hoping so much that BB would use that 91st pick to take a flier on Matt Barkley or Ryan Nassib. Can't win in this league without a top flight QB. Whewn Brady goes...who takes over? If the Pats aren't prepared for that day, the team will struggle. Unlike you, who see this as inevitable, I prefer to have my team take steps to prevent it. Drafting a special teamer and a back-up safety won't do it.  

     Literally every metric ranging from the team's record, to starters drafted, to all pros drafted, to pro bowlers drafted, to the overall value of players drafted per some sort of statistic like CarAV on profootballreference says that BB has been one of the better GMs in the league since he came to NE.

    RESPONSE: You homers continue to trot this out. But, how many studs has BB drafted since 2005?

     You have literally no evidence (except harping on a few picks you didn't like) to support your claim.

    RESPONSE: NO EVIDENCE?? Go ahead, Einstein...name the studs BB has drafted since 2005. Now, compare and contrast that, with graveyard of high draft picks: RB Laurence Maroney (21st overall, 2006), WR Chad Jackson (36th overall 2006), TE David Thomas (86th overall 2006), S Brandon Meriweather (24th overall 2007), CB Terrence Wheatley (62nd overall, 2008), LB Shawn Crable (78th overall, 2008), QB Kevin O'Connell (94th overall, 2008), SS Patrick Chung (34th overall, 2009), DT Ron Brace (40th overall, 2009), CB Darius Butler (41st overall, 2009), WR Brandon Tate (83rd overall, 2009), LB Tyrone McKenzie (97th overall [pick, 2009), DE/LB Jermaine Cunningham (53rd overall pick, 2010), WR Taylor Price (90th overall pick, 2010), CB Ras-I Dowling (33rd overall pick, 2011), SS Tavon Wilson 48th overall pick, 2012), and DE Jake Bequette (90th overall pick, 2012).  

     Guess what genius?  Every GM has bad drafts.

    RESPONSE: Every GM has the above listed track record? Any G/M with this kind or record would be uncerimoniously canned.

     Does Ozzie Newsome suck because of his drafts in 2004 and 2005.

    RESPONSE: What does Ozzie's drafts in 2004 and 2005 have to do with now In 2004, he moved up to draft QB Kyle Boller...because his team had no QB. Ozzie was smart enough to realize that he had to fond one. He took another chance on a QB from little known Delaware in 2008. How did that turn out?

     Does Kevin Colbert suck because of his drafts in 2008 and 2011?  Does Ted Thompson suck because of his drafts in 2007 and 2010?  I could go on all day.

    RESPONSE: Colbert has done wonders in Pittsburgh. He's won two championshions SBs since 2005. How many have the Patriots won? Ted Thompson took a chance in 2005 on a sliding QB named Aaron Rodgers...even though he had a greaty, but aging QB at the time. How bout how he swindled BB to move up, to draft Clay Matthews? How bout how he swindled BB again in 2006, ending up with WR Greg Jennings? The Packers have won a championship since 2005.    

     Good personnel men have bad drafts.  It happens.

    RESPONSE: Whatever!! That drafting tale of woe costs the Patriots several more championships. Again...any other G/M with that kind of record would have been fired.

     Learn to deal with it instead of playing a dam drama queen and screaming till you are blue in the face about how BB is ruining the team.

    RESPONSE: You learn to deal with it! I'm sick and tired of seeing the Pats crumble in the play-offs. Brady and coach BB need to have better talent to surround themselves with, Unfortunately, their great coach and horrid G/M are one in the same.




     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    Does anyone ever really read his convoluted retorts?  It's always so cluttered.   Has he ever said where he's from, originally?

    He literally just called BB's last 3 A rated drafts "horrid" when it's beyond clear BB is the greatest GM of all time to be able to have such highly competitive teams, even if they aren't annual juggernauts.

    I think he's a 20-25 year old bandwagon teenie bopper type who started watching this team in 2007 because he wanted to chose a team that was better than the Cowboys.

    That's what I think.

     




         Why am I not surprised...LOL!!!

     

     

     

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

     

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    .....

    You have NEVER won an argument with me here. NEVER. Not a single one. I own you. I always have. I always will. And your goofy little fake accounts can't change that.

     

     

     

    You're starting to sound like a Taylor Swift song.

     




    didnt know u were a fan muzz

     

     



    I have daughters.

     




    ah yes that would explain it! i am betting in the 10-15 range?

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     




    Good post. I am not even convinced he lives in TX or is a Pats fan, or from anywhere in NE.

     

    I think he's just a troll.

     


    You're the troll nutjob. You and your fake accounts that permeate this place.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    Quite frankly the problem is BB's incessant stubborness in refusing to defer to the unquestionably higher football intellect that is TexasPat.  I mean what is BB's problem?  He continues to squander picks on choices that the observational intelligentsia like Mel Kiper know without question will produce nothing but mediocrity on the field. 

    Just makes you shake your head, doesn't it?

         Yet another brilliant, well reasoned response, from a hopeless homer...LOL!!!  



    If making the perfectly idiotic assertion that perhaps, just maybe, on the outside chance that Belichick knows a skosh more about evaluating football talent than you do, TP, makes me a hopeless homer then feel free to address me as HH.  Trust me, I don't monitor your every post (some of the ones I have read are quite well reasoned and well presented, by the way) but for the past two years at least you've gone off the deep end over one pick in the draft.  You claim to know with absolute certainty that both Wilson and Harmon would have been available in later rounds and therefore Belichick squandered the picks used to draft 'em.  Were anyone to challenge you to provide to this forum the insider info that you would have to have in order to make that assertion what would you be able to show us? 

    As so many other 'hopeless homers' have pointed out the draft is not now nor will it ever will be an exact science, even in the early rounds.  And to be clear I'm not questioning your right to express your opinion; I'm simply challenging the unrelenting absolutism of your disagreement.  Wouldn't it make make more sense simply to wait and see what the kid does on the field before declaring him yet another BB tomato can?

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    Quite frankly the problem is BB's incessant stubborness in refusing to defer to the unquestionably higher football intellect that is TexasPat.  I mean what is BB's problem?  He continues to squander picks on choices that the observational intelligentsia like Mel Kiper know without question will produce nothing but mediocrity on the field. 

    Just makes you shake your head, doesn't it?

         Yet another brilliant, well reasoned response, from a hopeless homer...LOL!!!  

     



    If making the perfectly idiotic assertion that perhaps, just maybe, on the outside chance that Belichick knows a skosh more about evaluating football talent than you do, TP, makes me a hopeless homer then feel free to address me as HH.  Trust me, I don't monitor your every post (some of the ones I have read are quite well reasoned and well presented, by the way) but for the past two years at least you've gone off the deep end over one pick in the draft.  You claim to know with absolute certainty that both Wilson and Harmon would have been available in later rounds and therefore Belichick squandered the picks used to draft 'em.  Were anyone to challenge you to provide to this forum the insider info that you would have to have in order to make that assertion what would you be able to show us? 

     

    As so many other 'hopeless homers' have pointed out the draft is not now nor will it ever will be an exact science, even in the early rounds.  And to be clear I'm not questioning your right to express your opinion; I'm simply challenging the unrelenting absolutism of your disagreement.  Wouldn't it make make more sense simply to wait and see what the kid does on the field before declaring him yet another BB tomato can?

     




    Agreed in full here.  To the constant glass-half-empty crowd - who would you take in place of BB as GM if hiring a new GM meant that you no longer had BB as a coach?  I'd take BB the GM any day since it means BB is also the coach.  He is constantly scutinised, but I think we're all a bit spoiled and irrational in that BB is constantly held to the ridiculously high standard that BB himself set.  The Pats were minutes away from being 5 time superbowl winners - to take nothing away from the Giants who did enough to ensure that the Pats are 3-2 in the Superbowl in the BB era.  That they were in 5 Superbowls and 2(?) AFC championship games is a fact lost on a lot of people around here.    

     

    BB has a lot power here and gets to pick and choose who he thinks fits his system.  The results have not been terrible on the field, even if I will grant you that a lot of draft capital has been used in ways that make us scratch our heads sometimes.  I guarantee you in a decade, maybe 5 years, we will be pining for the days of BB's crazy drafts and competitive teams.  Stop and smell the roses boys.     

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    If making the perfectly idiotic assertion that perhaps, just maybe, on the outside chance that Belichick knows a skosh more about evaluating football talent than you do, TP, makes me a hopeless homer then feel free to address me as HH.  Trust me, I don't monitor your every post (some of the ones I have read are quite well reasoned and well presented, by the way) but for the past two years at least you've gone off the deep end over one pick in the draft.  You claim to know with absolute certainty that both Wilson and Harmon would have been available in later rounds and therefore Belichick squandered the picks used to draft 'em.  Were anyone to challenge you to provide to this forum the insider info that you would have to have in order to make that assertion what would you be able to show us? 

     

    As so many other 'hopeless homers' have pointed out the draft is not now nor will it ever will be an exact science, even in the early rounds.  And to be clear I'm not questioning your right to express your opinion; I'm simply challenging the unrelenting absolutism of your disagreement.  Wouldn't it make make more sense simply to wait and see what the kid does on the field before declaring him yet another BB tomato can?



    Spot on!!

    But you are trying to reason with a whiny little cry baby that didn't get his way in the draft. His only response is calling everyone homers while he cries about one pick. It's just human nature really....some of us choose to look at the bright side, while others wimper like a 3rd grade girl that thinks life just isn't fair. Wah wah wah...I didn't get Mel's best mock pick....our team is doomed, I know more than BB, blah blah blah......

    Keep enjoying the miseryTP....perhaps you could start being a Lions fan where your ranting posts would be a better fit....care for another kleenex?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    its funny.  Most of you guys trash me for being a colts fan and pointing out some of the fallacies of your fandom (which I have as well - and you point them out to me), but does anyone on this board trash the pats more than TexasPat who actually attempts to pose as a pats fan?

    Having an honest perspective is one thing.  That's the angle most of my criticisms come from.  TP rarely (and I think that's being generous) has a positive thing to say about the pats.  That tells me his positions are less than honest on a regular basis. 

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    TrollPat.  Since 2005 the guys BB has drafted have gone to a combined 3 1st team all pro teams, 5 2nd team all pro teams and 12 pro bowls.  The guys Colbert has drafted have gone to a combined 3 1st team all pro teams, 5 2nd team all pro teams and 12 pro bowls.  The guys Thompson has drafted have gone to a combined 2 1st team all pro teams, 2 2nd team all pro teams and 11 pro bowls.  If I had counted special teams guys BB would have gotten credit for Ghost and Slater both making pro bowls and all pro teams as special teamers.

    You want to talk about missed picks?

    Colbert swung and missed on:

    Trai Essex 93rd overall

    Anthony Smth 83rd overall

    Willie Reid 95th overall

    Matt Spaeth 77th overall

    Bruce Davis 88th overall

    Limas Sweed 53rd overall

    Rashard Mendenhall 23rd overall

    Kraig Urbik 79th overall

    Curtis Brown 95th overall

    Cameron Heyward 31st overall

    Sean Spence 86th overall

    Not to mention I've given him the benefit of the doubt on a number of guys like Ziggy Hood and Jason Worilds who have yet to show they were worthy of their draft position and had they been drafted by NE you would have declared them busts already. Or the numerous mediocre offensive lineman they've drafted over the years which has gotten Roethlisberger nearly killed.  In addition virtually none of their 2012 draft class had any impact last season.

     

    Thompson swung and missed on:

    Terence Murphy 58th overall

    Darryn Colledge 47th overall

    Aaron Roues 89th overall

    Brandon Jackson 63rd overall

    Justin Harrell 16th overall

    Brian Brohm 56th overall

    Patrick Lee 60th overall

    Mike Neal 56th overall

    Derek Sherrod 32nd overall

    Alex Green 96th overall

    Nick Perry 28th overall

    Jerel Worthy 51st overall

    Hell I could have included Bryan Bulaga 23rd overall on this list and it's not like AJ Hawk has lived up to his draft position at 5th overall.

    Both of these guys are considered top personnel men in the league.  I guess they should be fired too.  How anyone with a brain can argue BB is average as a GM is beyond me.  Acquaint yourself with the facts TrollPat and then get back to me.

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    Would any of these fans tell BB to his face that his drafts through the years have been "horrid"?

     


    If he asked I would tell him to his face he isn't any more than a competent GM. I certainly wouldn't tell him he's the greatest of all-time.

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    Would any of these fans tell BB to his face that his drafts through the years have been "horrid"?

     

     

     


    If he asked I would tell him to his face he isn't any more than a competent GM. I certainly wouldn't tell him he's the greatest of all-time.

     




    Who is the best GM of all time, then?

     

    Also, who has accomplished more as a GM in the cap era?




    There really is no such thing that can be clearly defined.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    Would any of these fans tell BB to his face that his drafts through the years have been "horrid"?

     

     

     


    If he asked I would tell him to his face he isn't any more than a competent GM. I certainly wouldn't tell him he's the greatest of all-time.

     




    Who is the best GM of all time, then?

     

    Also, who has accomplished more as a GM in the cap era?

     




    There really is no such thing that can be clearly defined.

     

     




    Well, you seem to be VERY vocal about why BB is average. It's clear, you, your troll bretheren, etc, are very particular about which adjectives you choose to decribe BB as a GM, or his D.

     

    You know you can't get away with saying he's an average coach, so you try to get away with getting shots in with the crapshoot of a draft, completing ignoring the imperfect records of over GMs, who are NOWHERE near BB's league. They may be in the upper elite category, but there is only one who sits at the top of that category and it will be until he retires.

    TPat as a troll used "horrid", which is obviously preposterous especially on the heels of his last 3 A- ---> A+ type of drafts.

    You, meanwhile, like to use the word "average", only to backpedal last year, now reverting back to "average" like a troll.

    YOu clearly no very little about the histoy of the NFL if you can't make a simple top 5 list of who you feel did the best work as a GM over the history of this league.

    Finally, you're quick to annoint Brady the best ever like a fraud and now say you can't choose even a top 5 list for GM?

    Fraud fan, plain and simple, replete with a raging man lust for Tom Brady.

     




    Nonsense Crazy Rusty.

    BB is average to above average as GM. No big difference there. I'm not going to mince words with you on this. His drafting and FA signing is very mundane, but his cap management and trading is a cut above the norm. Call that what you like.

    He certainly isn't the greatest of all-time. The GOAT GM wouldn't go 8 years without a Lombardi while having the GOAT QB.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    Great post. They don't watch what the other GMs do.  We've all brought these contexts to the table and then they go running with their tails between their legs.

    All they do is see who wins the SB and the listen to the anti-BB media rave about the flavor of the month, which is why gutless trolls like TexasPat and his band of dribblebibs are raving about Ted Thompson or Ozzie Newsome. 

    Good thing Kaepernick choked it down 4 straight times at the 5 yard line in the SB, huh?

    Ted Thompson is still trying to fix his defense.  He just tied up Clay Matthews and Rodgers to massive contracts, so we'll see how his defensive draft picks with Datone Jones (in a 3-4, bad fit) improve that crappy D.  He also couldn't lock down Greg Jennings and has no known replacement for that.

    Ozzie Newsome just lost most of his starting D, two HOFers, and clearly had no pipeline of draftees to promote, which means he is trying to cheat, so to speak, as he got caught with his pants down.

    Buying up a swatch of FAs all at once, flat out, never works. And, it means that Newsome hasn't had good drafts lately, too. 

    Two things you have to do as a GM:

    1. Draft well enough to keep a solid stream of depth you can have as depth or promote.

    2. Proper salary allocation.

    Last time I checked, Joe Flacco just had Ozzie by the balls with that contract. Las time I checked, Mike Huff isn't Ed Reed and Rolando McClain isn't Ray Lewis.  No one will be, but to have to go outside to get their replacements is a major weakness in terms of teambuilding.

    Ask yourself this:

    Would any of these fans tell BB to his face that his drafts through the years have been "horrid"?

    Answer, no.  They have small wee wees and very likely aren't very intelligent people to begin with.

     

     




    To be fair, Russ - you are doing exactly the opposite of what you are claiming the "trolls" do.  As you say, they go to extremes to tarnish Belichick, you go to extremes to shine him. 

     

    You criticize Ted Thompson for "not locking down" Jenning's, didn't the pats "not lock down" Welker?  I am sure there are other examples of the same. 

    Haven't you spent the last 3-4 years talking about Belichick rebuilding the defense?  Isn't Newsome afforded the same lattitude? 

    Seems to me that you ascribe the same kind of "unfair" perspective to every other team and their personnel that you criticize others for ascribing to Belichick. 

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

     

    Crazy Rusty.

     

     

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rgQZp_eGD_E/Tb3ABJHxFtI/AAAAAAAAAAM/VZPXOtoqzsw/s1600/mad-hatter-4.jpg

     
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