Post Draft Blues

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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    Russ - I am just saying that Belichick's way is not the only way and there are plenty of very successful GM's out there including those you mentioned.  I agree with you that TP has been unfair with his criticisms (especially if hes a pats fan), but blasting worthy others is no kind of counter response.   

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    TrollPat.  Since 2005 the guys BB has drafted have gone to a combined 3 1st team all pro teams, 5 2nd team all pro teams and 12 pro bowls.  The guys Colbert has drafted have gone to a combined 3 1st team all pro teams, 5 2nd team all pro teams and 12 pro bowls.  The guys Thompson has drafted have gone to a combined 2 1st team all pro teams, 2 2nd team all pro teams and 11 pro bowls.  If I had counted special teams guys BB would have gotten credit for Ghost and Slater both making pro bowls and all pro teams as special teamers.

    You want to talk about missed picks?

    Colbert swung and missed on:

    Trai Essex 93rd overall

    Anthony Smth 83rd overall

    Willie Reid 95th overall

    Matt Spaeth 77th overall

    Bruce Davis 88th overall

    Limas Sweed 53rd overall

    Rashard Mendenhall 23rd overall

    Kraig Urbik 79th overall

    Curtis Brown 95th overall

    Cameron Heyward 31st overall

    Sean Spence 86th overall

    Not to mention I've given him the benefit of the doubt on a number of guys like Ziggy Hood and Jason Worilds who have yet to show they were worthy of their draft position and had they been drafted by NE you would have declared them busts already. Or the numerous mediocre offensive lineman they've drafted over the years which has gotten Roethlisberger nearly killed.  In addition virtually none of their 2012 draft class had any impact last season.

     

    Thompson swung and missed on:

    Terence Murphy 58th overall

    Darryn Colledge 47th overall

    Aaron Roues 89th overall

    Brandon Jackson 63rd overall

    Justin Harrell 16th overall

    Brian Brohm 56th overall

    Patrick Lee 60th overall

    Mike Neal 56th overall

    Derek Sherrod 32nd overall

    Alex Green 96th overall

    Nick Perry 28th overall

    Jerel Worthy 51st overall

    Hell I could have included Bryan Bulaga 23rd overall on this list and it's not like AJ Hawk has lived up to his draft position at 5th overall.

    Both of these guys are considered top personnel men in the league.  I guess they should be fired too.  How anyone with a brain can argue BB is average as a GM is beyond me.  Acquaint yourself with the facts TrollPat and then get back to me.



    Good post pcmIV, this is just a drop in the bucket of what I was alluding to on another thread. All GM's have draft misses, bad drafts, Belichick is no differen't but for some reason he keeps drafting winners and keeps winning.

     

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    I was a little disappointed at first, but as a week has passed, I'm feeling better and better.  We didn't get any of the "names" I'd hoped for, but does BB ever go for names?  It seems like he really went for need: (2) receivers with smarts and speed for the outside, just what we needed, (2) de or lbs with speed to cover tight ends, something we've needed for a while, and (2) dbs one of which can do the former (cover a te) and both of whom can add needed depth in an area we're improving.  And a power back (Blount).  I don't think this is sexy draft for us, but three years from now, I think people will be talking about how well we did--without too many bullets.

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    Texas Pat,

    By my count, your original premise is totally untrue. Most do not feel disappointed in this draft. How do you respond to that TexasPat

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    TrollPat.  Since 2005 the guys BB has drafted have gone to a combined 3 1st team all pro teams, 5 2nd team all pro teams and 12 pro bowls.  The guys Colbert has drafted have gone to a combined 3 1st team all pro teams, 5 2nd team all pro teams and 12 pro bowls.  The guys Thompson has drafted have gone to a combined 2 1st team all pro teams, 2 2nd team all pro teams and 11 pro bowls.  If I had counted special teams guys BB would have gotten credit for Ghost and Slater both making pro bowls and all pro teams as special teamers.

    You want to talk about missed picks?

    Colbert swung and missed on:

    Trai Essex 93rd overall

    Anthony Smth 83rd overall

    Willie Reid 95th overall

    Matt Spaeth 77th overall

    Bruce Davis 88th overall

    Limas Sweed 53rd overall

    Rashard Mendenhall 23rd overall

    Kraig Urbik 79th overall

    Curtis Brown 95th overall

    Cameron Heyward 31st overall

    Sean Spence 86th overall

    Not to mention I've given him the benefit of the doubt on a number of guys like Ziggy Hood and Jason Worilds who have yet to show they were worthy of their draft position and had they been drafted by NE you would have declared them busts already. Or the numerous mediocre offensive lineman they've drafted over the years which has gotten Roethlisberger nearly killed.  In addition virtually none of their 2012 draft class had any impact last season.

     

    Thompson swung and missed on:

    Terence Murphy 58th overall

    Darryn Colledge 47th overall

    Aaron Roues 89th overall

    Brandon Jackson 63rd overall

    Justin Harrell 16th overall

    Brian Brohm 56th overall

    Patrick Lee 60th overall

    Mike Neal 56th overall

    Derek Sherrod 32nd overall

    Alex Green 96th overall

    Nick Perry 28th overall

    Jerel Worthy 51st overall

    Hell I could have included Bryan Bulaga 23rd overall on this list and it's not like AJ Hawk has lived up to his draft position at 5th overall.

    Both of these guys are considered top personnel men in the league.  I guess they should be fired too.  How anyone with a brain can argue BB is average as a GM is beyond me.  Acquaint yourself with the facts TrollPat and then get back to me.



         Okay...now I have some time to address your post. First off, you've labeled Green Bay's Daryn Colledge as "a bust". That's BS. Colledge started for the Pack in his rookie year...and throughout his time in Green Bay, from 2006-10...never missing a game. He left the Packers through free agency and joined the Arizona Cardinals in 2010 (the year Green Bay won a SB, beating the Pittsburgh Steelers). He has been the Cardinals' starting LG from 2011-present. What more do you want from a mid-second round pick? Second rounders aren't selected to become reserves or special teamers. They are taken that high with the expectation that they will become starters...which is exactly what Colledge did.

         When you add up the number of draft failures for both GB and Pittsburgh, you get eleven (11) for GB (take away your bogus representation that Colledge was a bust), and eleven (11) for the Steelers. BB had, according to my list, seventeen (17). Big difference. 

         Pittsburgh has had some poor drafts...and we're beginning to see the consequences now. The Goths finished just 8-8 last year. The formerly great Steeler "D" has aged. Also, we're seeing the consequences on the offensive side of the ball...as the Steelers have holes on their OL, and at RB. As for Green Bay, they are similar in many ways to the Patriots. Each team has an elite QB, who is able to carry their teams, despite a swiss cheese defense.

         Of these teams...Green Bay won a SB in 2010. Pittsburgh won in 2005, 2008, before losing to the Packers in 2010. The Patriots, as we painfully know, have not won a SB...but played in two, in 2007 and 2011.    

     

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

         One final word on the Patriots' 2013 draft: the Pats' did the right thing in trading down from pick #29. Though they could have landed a possible starter at safety or an intriguing WR prospect, they instead received four (4) draft choices, three of which were amongst the top 102 players. In a draft that was low on blue chip prospects, but deep in good, developmental type prospects, BB made the right decision.

         As for BB's selections...the success of this draft hinges primarily on LB Jamie Collins. It's expected that he'll develop into a good starter by year two...and will possibly replace Rob Ninkovich next year, when Nink becomes an UFA.

         Like most here, I liked the Dopson pick. The kid is a big WR, that the Pats haven't had throughout BB's reign in New England, with the exception of Randy Moss. Make no mistake...Dopson is a boom or bust type player. But, he's worth the gamble.

         CB Ryan Logan at #83 was an okay choice at that spot. Though I don't see him as anything special, he should contribute, and be a solid player in the Pats' system. 

         As y'all know, I hated the Harmon pick at #91. I can't understand why BB saw it as imperative to take this unheralded prospect with such a high pick. Sometimes, a coach falls in love with a player...or, in BB's case, the Rutger's program. Whatever the reason, this guy should never have been selected so early, at #91. The Pats missed a golden opportunity to invest in QBs Matt Barkley and Ryan Nassib. Whether you homers want to face it or not, Tom Brady turns 36 soon. Current back-up QB Ryan Mallett has not impressed during his preseason opportunities, and will soon be hitting free agency. Finding an eventual replacement for Brady is a must, if the Patriots hope to stay among the elite teams, over the next decade. Other good prospects available and passed on for Harmon were WR Stedman Bailey, CB Will Davis, DE/LB Alec Okafor, S Shamarko Thomas, QB Tyler Wilson, OC/OG Barrett Jones, and DT Jesse Williams. 

         The Boyce pick is intriguing, because of the kid's speed. A good risk at #102, for a team that's desperate for good, young WRs.

         I liked the 7th round picks of Buchanan and Beauharnais very much.

         Grade: B- 

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to alfred-e-bob-neumier's comment:

    Do I love BB picking Harmon where he did?  Heck no, but I'm willing to wait and see what develops.

    RESPONSE: I'm not trashing Harmon...I'm trashing where he was selected. Had the Pats took him in round 5 or 6 after a trade-down, or in round 7, I wouldn't have had a problem with the pick. Hell...I hope the guy becomes a pro-bowler! I just thought that at #91, the Patriots had better options.  

    tSince he's been Coach /GM, this team has consistently been about the best in the NFL, and that's for over a decade. All of this has been done AFTER adoption of the salary cap becomes a pro-bowler.(1994).

    RESPONSE: This is the classic refrain of the homers! BB is such a great coach. Time and again he's taken chicken scraps and made chicken salad out of his defense. But, in the big games, the lack of talent tends to rear it's ugly head. Th.e other thing that BB has going for him is that the greatest QB of all-time runs his offense. Together, he and Brady are able to overcome some talent deficiencies, due to his poor drafts.

    Most of Pittsburgh's and San Francisco's SB wins came BEFORE the cap. Only the current SF team, because of their recent stockpiling of high draft picks, can hope to match the Pats decade long record because the certain outcome of winning in today's NFL is loosing young rising stars to other teams through free agency.

    RESPONSE: I'm not denying BB's greatness as a coach. For the very reasons that you name above, he is the greatest coach ever. What he's accomplished in New England despite the cap limitations has been outstanding. 

     Given todays business realities in the NFL, the job BB has done as Coach/GM is spectacular.

    RESPONSE: As a coach...yes. As a G/M, his business decisions (knowing when to pay and when to release veteran players) has been outstanding. His draft trades, for the most part, have also been very good. It's been his draft selections that have been his Achilles heel. Seventeen misses on top 100 picks over the past seven years is far too many.  




     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

         One final word on the Patriots' 2013 draft: the Pats' did the right thing in trading down from pick #29. Though they could have landed a possible starter at safety or an intriguing WR prospect, they instead received four (4) draft choices, three of which were amongst the top 102 players. In a draft that was low on blue chip prospects, but deep in good, developmental type prospects, BB made the right decision.

         As for BB's selections...the success of this draft hinges primarily on LB Jamie Collins. It's expected that he'll develop into a good starter by year two...and will possibly replace Rob Ninkovich next year, when Nink becomes an UFA.

         Like most here, I liked the Dopson pick. The kid is a big WR, that the Pats haven't had throughout BB's reign in New England, with the exception of Randy Moss. Make no mistake...Dopson is a boom or bust type player. But, he's worth the gamble.

         CB Ryan Logan at #83 was an okay choice at that spot. Though I don't see him as anything special, he should contribute, and be a solid player in the Pats' system. 

         As y'all know, I hated the Harmon pick at #91. I can't understand why BB saw it as imperative to take this unheralded prospect with such a high pick. Sometimes, a coach falls in love with a player...or, in BB's case, the Rutger's program. Whatever the reason, this guy should never have been selected so early, at #91. The Pats missed a golden opportunity to invest in QBs Matt Barkley and Ryan Nassib. Whether you homers want to face it or not, Tom Brady turns 36 soon. Current back-up QB Ryan Mallett has not impressed during his preseason opportunities, and will soon be hitting free agency. Finding an eventual replacement for Brady is a must, if the Patriots hope to stay among the elite teams, over the next decade. Other good prospects available and passed on for Harmon were WR Stedman Bailey, CB Will Davis, DE/LB Alec Okafor, S Shamarko Thomas, QB Tyler Wilson, OC/OG Barrett Jones, and DT Jesse Williams. 

         The Boyce pick is intriguing, because of the kid's speed. A good risk at #102, for a team that's desperate for good, young WRs.

         I liked the 7th round picks of Buchanan and Beauharnais very much.

         Grade: B- 

     



    Your analysis with the logic on taking a QB in this draft absolutely horrendous.

    This was the worst QB class, arguably, of my life.  Awful. I don't see any of these QBs having a career as a starter and many will never hold on to even a back up job.

    Barkely is small and won't make it.  Nassib is a project.

    Kind of comical you say Brady will be 36 and Mallet sits there. Mallet will be dealt before next year's draft and BB will have yet again taken a draft pick and gotten good return on it.

    And, if he wants to go QB next year, he can.  The draft class has got to be better than this one.

    Nassib's own head coach felt he had peaked already. Wake up.

    RESPONSE: You're such a rude individual. I don't even know why I'm wasting my time. But...I'll use your own warped logic. You boisterously proclaim patience...the draft is a crapshoot, and so on. Yet, you're ready to shovel dirt on two QBs that you know nothing about. If they were such bad players, why would Philadelphia trade up for the first pick in the 4th round to get Barkley? Barkley small? He's over 6'2", and wights 220 lbs.. Why would the NY Giants, with pressing needs on their OL, at RB, and at LB, use the 110th overall pick to select Nassib? 

         Barkley and Nassib would have been in a perfect situation in New England to learn, much like Aaron Rodgers was in Green Bay. Barkley or Nassib would have had two years to develop behind Brady. In that time, BB would know whether he had his next franchise QB. Yet...doing so, according to you, would be a waste. Yey, spending the 91st overall pick on a back-up safety makes more sense? I guess that the logic of the Eagles and Giants is horrendous too then...right?  

         How silly is your thought process when you admit that Mallett isn't the answer to replace Brady...and will be moved? If Mallett is such a great prospect, then why, in this so-called worst QB class of your life, didn't a QB needy team part with a second round pick to get him? Yet, you expect that next year the Pats are magically going to get a second rounder for him, when he's a restricted free agent, in a better QB draft class? And...you expect the Patriots to use that pick to draft Brady's successor??

         Barkley slipped due to playing behind a bad OL, and playing for a vastly overrated college coach at USC. Nassib dropped partially because he played in obscurity at Syracuse. I'm not saying that either of these QBs is going to pan out. But, isn't it worth the risk with the 91st overall pick to find out? Relatively low risk...high reward, if Barkley or Nassib panned out.  

     

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    Umm, what? Do you have a poin in that counter of yours, TPAt?

    You don't respond to me because you know I am a more knowledgable fan, smarter than you and will expose your trollish premise with ease.

    Try again, Tpat.

    PS Where are you from originally, TPat? Hmm?




         Oh yes, Bass...your brilliance is breath-taking...LOL!!!

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to jri37's comment:

     

    This doesn't even take into account last years haul.

     

    http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/decade-the-making-the-ultimate-nfl-draft-grades/2419/


    That CHFF piece has been thoroughly discredited here in the past.

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    Umm, what? Do you have a poin in that counter of yours, TPAt?

    You don't respond to me because you know I am a more knowledgable fan, smarter than you and will expose your trollish premise with ease.

    Try again, Tpat.

    PS Where are you from originally, TPat? Hmm?

     




         Oh yes, Bass...your brilliance is breath-taking...LOL!!!

     

     




     

    Didn't say "brilliance". I said I am more intelligent than you are, so you feel intimidated. lol

     



    I cannot say there is a single person here that you are more intelligent than BassFisting.

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    Seventeen misses on top 100 picks over the past seven years is far too many.  



    Truly a dreadful record there, and the deciding factor that brings his overall work as a GM into the ordinary. A reasonable man can not deny this.

     
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    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    Umm, what? Do you have a poin in that counter of yours, TPAt?

    You don't respond to me because you know I am a more knowledgable fan, smarter than you and will expose your trollish premise with ease.

    Try again, Tpat.

    PS Where are you from originally, TPat? Hmm?

     




         Oh yes, Bass...your brilliance is breath-taking...LOL!!!

     

     




     

    Didn't say "brilliance". I said I am more intelligent than you are, so you feel intimidated. lol

     

     

     



    I cannot say there is a single person here that you are more intelligent than BassFisting.

     




    Sure. Sure, Babe.

     

    Can you just stop following me around for once, please?  I was speaking with Troll Pat.

    Just stay out of my discussions with other people, diapers.

    Got it?




    Zip it troll. I will partake in whatever conversations I please. And I will bludgeon your lies and insanity as I please.

     
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