In response to TexasPat's comment:
In response to zbellino's comment:
Yes. Mickey Loomis is an average GM. I just showed what it looks like .... the average GM swings and misses more often than not ... in the first round. That is what it is like for fans outside of NE. Polian has an amazing history as a team builder ... but his last few years were some of his worst, he was at best average over that span as the team decayed.
I'm first to be critical of the mistakes BB has made ... but he's been great at drafting recently as well. The offensive picks he has made have been amazing. He's done a great job sourcing LBer talent in the 4-3 transition.
The second question is irrelevant.
1.) You (or someone) defined the period as the last few seasons, because it was about "anyone who has won a superbowl in the last 8 years has been better. Most of those players you named were drafted outside that span.
2.) The question has nothing to do with drafting itself, unless by "ace-in-the-hole" you are implying you think Quarterbacks play some role in drafting for their HC.
We are talking about drafting ... not winning.
My response was basically what it was .... I have a huge amount of respect for what Reese has done and Colbert, and have always thought highly of Newsome. If there is a guy who has performed worse or as good as BB of the three it's Newsome, as many of the "stars" for his team were guys that were drafted before he was there, a long time ago. But he has a really strong track record.
But Polian and Loomis over the last 8 years. I dismiss that out of hand. It's really just a joke. They can't draft a thing. Their teams are a mess.
I can do this with team after team. Look at the Eagles, Raiders, Jets. These are all teams that are more or less "average" and over the last 8 seasons have literally drafted more first round busts than players that have "hit."
That is the reality of what mediocre is in the NFL drafting process.
BB has had a recent poor track record of drafting WR and DB, with some mixed results on the defensive line/OLB. But he is classes above those guys.
And simply saying " a team won the SB ergo ... their GM is a better drafter over that time span" is just not right. I live in New Orleans .... Loomis is average to below average. His superbowl was this: he picked up Darren Sharper on the FA wire, and Sharper had an MVP caliber season at safety after he was supposed to be washed up. End of story.
If Adrian Wilson does that .... you won't be saying BB suddenly became a better drafter. You'd be saying, he hit it in the vet FA pool big time. That's what happened on that one magical ride for NOLA.
RESPONSE: You're really selling Mickey Loomis short. He tranformed the Aints to the Saints...and won a SB in the process. For openers, you're omitting his role in out-hustling the Dolphins in signing QB Drew Brees. That move alone turned the franchise around...from a joke to a repectable team. He also hired coach Sean Payton...one of the best in the game...Bountygate notwithstanding.
Yes...there were some draft misses. But there were also the followng hits, since 2006:
1.) 2006: SS Roman Harper (43rd overall pick), OG Jahri Evans (108th overall pick), DE Rob Ninkovich (135th overall), WR Marques Colston (252nd overall);
2.) 2007: LT Jermon Bushrod (125th overall);
3.) 2008: CB Tracy Porter (40th overall), OT Carl Nicks (164th overall);
4.) 2009: P Thomas Morstead (164th overall);
5.) 2010: CB Patrick Robinson (32nd overall); TE Jimmy Graham (95th overall);
6.) 2011: DE Cameron Jordan (24th overall);
7.) 2012: Busted out.
You have Ninkovich, Porter, and Robinson as "hits"?
Really, I live here. Those are what you call busts.
A 2nd and 1st round corner with 15 picks in 8 seasons between them, no Pro-Bowls? By your logic, then, Patrick Chung wasn't a bust. He's got as many turnovers created as Porter in one less season, and one less than Robinson in his first three. Not to mention Robinson was actually a much higher draft selection.
And people will always love the play Porter made in the SB, but no one was sad to see him go, because he wasn't very good as a player. He was essentially an average nickel corner, but had for a high second. He now plays for another team on an average contract.
Chung = those guys.
And trust me, Harper is what Meriweather was in NE. He is a player that makes big plays but frustrates the bejeesus out of half the fans. Yeha, he is on ESPN but he isn't disciplined.
And if Ninkovich, a role player for another team, isn't a bust, then neither is David Thomas for BB, who plays a good deal for New Orleans.
Not to mention you left out 2005 where the Saints also "busted out."
3 good offensive lineman, an awesome TE and a good WR and a solid, but over-rated safety. If I am selling Loomis short, you are selling BB waaaay short.
He's been quite a bit better than Loomis. Criminy, what the New Orleans fans would do to have something as simple as Ridley ...they've said as much watching Pats games with me, after being tortured with ridiulously high busts like Ingram and Bush, neither of whom eclipsed 602 yards for the Saints as runners.
And that is a hjuge part of the key. Loomis has had so many high selections over that span, and missed with many. The team is constantly trying to jetison useless first round contracts.
Solder, Vollmer, Mankins, Ridley, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Jones, Dennard, DMC, Spikes, Mayo, Ghostowski, Mesko, Slater, Meriweather (+ I guess I can count Chung and Thomas as "hits" because they are more or less equivalent to players you are calling "hits" for NOLA).
Loomis hasn't been terrible, but he's been average. BB's been above what Loomis has been. So he has been above average.
The only haul over that span that I would take over BB's haul is the Giants' and possibly Steelers.
No, BB isn't the unquestioned greatest drafter in NFL history like some people here say. I don't even think he is the best over the last 8. I reserve that for a couple other guys who have had amazing draft runs over that period. I will personally contend that his failures drafting to the defensive side of the ball have really hindered this team, making it one dimensional. But he also isn't "average" or "terrible" as some people here say as well.
He's one of the best in the league. If he weren't NE wouldn't be this good so consistently.
NE has a great offense, if that doesn't work, their defense can't pick them up. But the thesis that a SB win makes a better drafter, is not true at all.
The pure symmetry of this is amazing and it really begs a question before this season: I would love an answer to the question.
In 2009 the Saints grabbed vet FA Darren Sharper, a 34 year old 5 time Pro-bowl safety who saw limited time and diminished results in Minnesota. He exploded for 9 picks, three for TDs in the regular season. He made their mediocre defense "good enough" for one season. They haven't been remotely as good since he left. With him calling signals, they forced 9 turnovers that post-season alone, (New England has created a grand total of 7[!!!!!] since 2007 in the playoffs over three times as many games) and won three games in a row despite committing 4 turnovers themselves. Before Sharper they didn't even make the playoffs, and since he's left they've missed it once and made it twice, and basically lost games they should have won because their defense doesn't create turnovers anymore in big games (3 in three games, on the strength of 2 against the Lions).
Along comes a 34 year old vet FA safety, with 5 Probowls, but who also saw less success and playing time in his team last season. His name is Adrian Wilson. If Adrian Wilson has a rennaissance season like Sharper did, actually gathering MVP votes, and basically dominating the backfield, and all of a sudden NE's defense has one magical season, they actually close a couple playoff games out, maybe grab 8 or 9 playoff turnovers (essentially doubling their total from the last five years combined) Superbowl Parade and all that .... would that make BB a better drafter all of a sudden?