Post Draft Blues

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    First off this wasn't a good draft pool to start with.  A couple of blue chippers but that's it.  Any time you have a bandwidth of 60 players grading out almost the same it's going to be pretty blah.  My impression of the draft is BB did the right thing in trading out of the 1st round.  I wished it was to a team that was selecting higher though.  But the Pats got a lot of picks in return.   

    Collins is the kind of pick that should have been the theme for this draft.  Instead it will probably go down as the Rutgers draft. Very atheletic.  This was a solid pick.  Margus Hunt was there and was on a lot of folks radar here.  Collins was on a very bad So. Miss. team and that probably hurt his recognition.

    Dobson should make you very happy.  Great hands.

    Logan fills a need and should be a sound CB.  Depth pick for sure and it was one of the things that I was looking for this draft. He'll have a chance to play and learn the game.

    Duron Harmon.  Geez.  Just when my arguement was going well.

    Boyce.  Some say one of the steals of the draft.

    Buchanan.  He dropped a lot and not at all sure why.  Perhaps another steal?  This is a wait and see.

    Beauharnals.  Go Rutgers!  Special teams player?  I would have thought an OL here for depth.  So this pick surprises me.

    I am one of the few who isn't happy with the Blount trade.  The guy is a bonehead.  Lots of talent with a pea sized brain.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TampaPete. Show TampaPete's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    The Pats needed a couple of WRs and they got them.  They needed a coverage linebacker and they got one.  They needed some more DBs and they got them.  It would have been nice if they could have traded up, but by being aggressive last year BB didn't have the ammunition.  The Pats went into the draft with five picks.  Everybody who has been paying attention knew that BB was going to trade down unless there was a must-have available at 29.  Getting 4 picks for one was amazing.  The players picked have potential.  I am looking forward to seeing what they can do.

     

    We can argue about the picks for the next 8 years; that it the fun of being a fan.  The fact is that the guys you get your heart set on are rarely going to get picked.  A couple of years ago, I had my eyes on Demarco Murray and BB picked Vereen and Ridley.  It turned out that Murray was good, but so are the Pat's RBs. 

     

    I was a little disappointed that the Pats didn't take Patterson, but if Dobson, Boyce, and Collins turn out to be keepers, I'll be happy.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    Pat, well, you're a respected poster here though your constant Tavon Wilson trolling after last year's draft cost you a lot of credibility. 

    It's really not that hard to understand why this year's draft looks like a good one for the team: 

    - What Pats fans who are belly aching are overlooking is that our last several drafts have been overall solid. BB has made some personnel mistakes IMO outside of the draft, but the draft overall has been much better in recent years. There is no reason to believe this year won't be another good draft. 

    - Even draft experts admitted this was a talent-weak draft. The Pats lacked picks they could bundle up for an impact player anyhow. 

    - Instead of his maddening habit of trading down and then using those picks on baffling "best player available" options, this year BB drafted direclty according to greatest team need. With BB's trouble drafting a good wide receiver who fits in on the Pats, it makes far more sense to take a flyer on two decent ones. 

    It's really not that hard to understand Pat. 

    Beyond that, I don't really have much respect for peeps who get worked up high or low on draft selections. It takes two years minimum to fully judge a draft, so go outside and grab a cold one. 

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    Probably the best thread in terms of actually analyzing needs and picks on the forum. Some great posts - too many to call out individually. I really like this draft. I really liked last years draft.

    What I find so funny is this: The Pats make 8 or so picks each year. And quite often there is one pick between the second and fourth round that is termed 'a real head scratcher' by the pundits and the draft graders.

    And the classic comment on this board from the doom and gloomers is:

    I really liked the draft (or the draft was just fine) and then they used pick # ___ on [head scratcher] who could have been picked up x rounds later or as a free agent! Now this draft really s@cks! BB is the worst GM! etc.

    Now I could understand that attitude if it was a first round pick and especially if it was a top 10 pick. [The GMs in Oakland were fired for just those moves year after year] But last year we were talking about a middle of the second round pick, after making two picks in the first round that were generally considered 'brilliant', and this year we are talking about an end of the third round pick. And a single pick out of around 8 picks made. I understand everyone has their 'Binkies' as does BB, but only BB actually has to defend his prior to 20/20 hind sight. And the reality of mid 2nd rounders is that only 1 in 4 picks made in that range ever contribute significantly to their team. For end of the third round it is more like 1 in 7. SO even if BB made the pick on the consensus perfectly valued player in round 2 he would only get it 'right' 25% of the time. For the #91 pick this year he would get it 'right' 17% of the time.

    And so getting freaked about one pick in a middle round that was unexpected or a monstrous stretch is totally irrational. (I guess that could be termed as a proper definition of being a 'fan') And to call the whole draft a disaster because of a single mid-round pick is crazy. (another classic definition for 'fan')

    Think of it this way - the difference between a player taken between 90 and 100 and one taken at 160-190 in terms of being a starter for a team is about 5% (17% to 12% sucess rate on draftees.) So even if BB totally blew his evaluation of Harmon he only gave up a 5% chance of making a better choice. And you are going to grade all 8 picks on a 5% error rate on a single one of them?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    Not sure if drafting Harmon means Wilson is a bust. We all saw that they could use an upgrade at that position and that Gregory wasn't anything special. I was hoping they'd grab Shamarko Thomas there, but they didn't (obviously).

    There will be competition at that position and it could well be that Gregory is the one on the street when it's all done.  

    My only second guess on this draft is the lack of a DT. I thought that was their biggest need or at least 1A with WR. 



    Good post. It may mean the end of Gregory which I hope it to be because I thought he was terrible last year.

    i had this strange feeling bb wasn't going to draft a DT because it was a position we all talked about...and I think he is relying on the Kelly and armstead signings here instead, which to me should work just fine. 

    overall, I think the pats are trying to get faster on defense, see the Collins signing, and armstead is not too shabby either. I think we will see armstead and Kelly lining up as 3-4 ends and 4-3 dt's. lots of combos bb can employ, and he can throw in Collins and jones either as LBs or ends in either scheme...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    When looking at this draft, first I need to take a look at the starters. We'll go D first:

    CB: Talib, Dennard, Arrington - I went 3 deep because in today's NFL, your top 3 are basically starters. I am very comfortable with Talib and Dennard on the outside. Arrington working in the slot is ok with me as well. That being said, I was hoping for nothing better than a #4 CB, and the Pats seemed to get exactly that. If Dowling could ever stay healthy, the need lessens even more...as unlikely as that may be.

    S: A Wilson, McCourty, Gregory, T Wilson - The addition of Wilson, another year for T Wilson, and another year of fitting in for Gregory and I see a unit that should be better with McCourty their from Day 1, and Talib helping out by association. Again, the NEED wasn't for a starter, but some depth and potential. They certainly got that in a guy that seems to be "boom or bust". There are a LOT of intriguing snippets to read about the kid. Nobody went to scout him specifically, and many came away with an impression he left. If he OR T Wilson work out over the next 2 seasons, that a win in my book.

    LB: Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Ninkovich - Not a whole lot to complain about here, except they didn't cover TEs, or the middle of the field in general, very well. They needed only a coverage-type LB, or some depth. Again, they seemed to address exactly that.

    DLine - Wilfork, Jones, Deaderick, Kelly - Solid. Not spectacular. For me, this unit needs a year of seasoning more than anything else where Jones and deaderick (and Love) can hopefully blossom into more complete players. Jones seems like a stud in the making. They NEEDED little here (pass rushing specialist? I know, about 28 other teams would love the same thing, if they were so readily available, more teams would have them), and they got a decent talent late in the draft.

    For the D, I didn't feel like they needed any starter upgrades. Ideally, sure, I could point out 5/6 positions. But realistically, I can't expect 7 Pro Bowl caliber players...it'd be nice to have, but silly to expect.

    The O needed ONE thing...an outside WR. They drafted 3. 1 of them is likely to be at least serviceable, and that's as much as I can hope for. Do I wish they found a Greg Jnnings type? Obviously, but who knows! I'm very curious to watch Dobson get out there. And considering Ds will have to watch Gronk, Hern, Amendola and the RBs first, there is potential there for him to find some very soft coverages. That size, speed and hands, and likely looking at a LOT of single converages, and TB as his QB...well, he doesn't have to be great...he just needs to be a legit NFL player.

    The Pats are drafting from a position of strength in that most of their starters were already in place. Now either these guys add depth, or outplay a current starter, and raise the level of the team.

    Win/Win!




         Thanks for your detailed analysis of the Pats "D". But, I must disagree with your premise that all the Pats need is some quality depth. Their DL needs to be upgraded. Specifically, they need to upgrade from Love and Deaderick...and they need to find a quality pass-rusher, opposite of Chandler Jones. Though their LBs are solid, as you correctly pointed out, they have issues regarding pass coverage. As for the secondary, it appears fairly solid, so long as Aqib Talib stays healthy. But, it lacks play-makers. Logan Ryan and Harmon add depth...nothing more. So...unless Collins comes through, I don't see this draft being very beneficial towards improving the "D" to a championship caliber. 

         As for Dobson...he's a promising prospect. Time will tell on him.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    BB is a rare coach.  BB runs a team based on philosophies of the game.  His teams are built with players who best fits this and he molds the team around this instead of molding his team around players.  There are two flaws to this... Depth and less over all talent.  At the end of the day they couldn't win the big games due to not having quality depth in key positions, therefore losing to more talented teams.

    He isn't going to change his approach.  He's does things differently then any other coach out there.  He is the smartest coach in football and I wouldn't want any other coach.  Every time I watch a Pats game I'm excitied, not only to watch the game and the players but to watch BB coach and watch what he has put together.  It's very amazing, year in and year out, no other coach has a team in a position to win it all every single year for such a long time.  But, in the end they have the same problem.  Injury, lack of quality depth and losing to a more talented team on the field that day.

    Based on the moves the Pats have made this off season and in the draft I don't see a SB winning team.  But by the time this team takes the field everything will be in place to make another run at the Championship and they will be there in the playoffs once again.  Will this year be the year they can escape the injuries to key players and be able to play in the playoffs and the SB with the most talented players on the team on the field?  We shall see, and once again I can't wait for the season to start.

    With regards to football... This is Bill Belichicks world and we are just living in it. 

     



    That statement of yours is really funny. Especially since until the media started the "bash BB" agenda, BB was praised by most people, whose football opinion matters, as the ONLY coach to mold his system to the talents of his players and not try to mold his players to his system.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to tanbass' comment:

    Hey TP...sounds like you are tired of all the "In Bill We Trust" folks.....just like most of us are tired of the "The sky is Falling" types. It's a wash really.


    Some of us choose to be somewhat rational knowing you can't possibly judge the new talent for at least a year or two. Then folks like your self who get their panties in a wad because BB didn't draft your favorite names.

    You whined for months over the draft last year because of one pick (YOU) didn't like....and here we are again. Just because we don't cry like you over a pick doesn't mean we are swinging from BB's nutsack. Enjoy your misery dude!!



    +1

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to rameakap's comment:

     

    For the D, I didn't feel like they needed any starter upgrades. Ideally, sure, I could point out 5/6 positions. But realistically, I can't expect 7 Pro Bowl caliber players...it'd be nice to have, but silly to expect.

    The O needed ONE thing...an outside WR. They drafted 3. 1 of them is likely to be at least serviceable, and that's as much as I can hope for. Do I wish they found a Greg Jnnings type? Obviously, but who knows! I'm very curious to watch Dobson get out there. And considering Ds will have to watch Gronk, Hern, Amendola and the RBs first, there is potential there for him to find some very soft coverages. That size, speed and hands, and likely looking at a LOT of single converages, and TB as his QB...well, he doesn't have to be great...he just needs to be a legit NFL player.

    The Pats are drafting from a position of strength in that most of their starters were already in place. Now either these guys add depth, or outplay a current starter, and raise the level of the team.

    Win/Win!


    Great post I feel the same way, except the Harmon pick was such bad value in the top 100, you can't dismiss it as 'ok' b/c the 'need' wasn't for a S who would break into the top 4. BB will now likely be cutting 1 of T. Wilson, Ebner, Harmon and Gregory in camp. Won't be carrying 6 safeties. So that hurts.




    RESPONSE: I disagree, in that I see the "D" needing upgrades, as I explained in my previous post. But, I agree with you about the Harmon pick at #91 overall. Would have rather seen the team address another need (DT, OL depth, WR, or...to take a flier on a Matt Barkley or Ryan Nassib. Taking either of them at #91 seemed to be an acceptable risk...with a chance of a very high reward. Harmon likely could have been had in round 7. But, even if that's not the case, it doesn't seem to be worth spending the 91st overall pick in the draft just to add a little more competition at safety. I don't see Harmon as either an upgrade, or a potential difference maker.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    How I see it:

    LOVE Ryan (top 60 value at 83, tough, fits scheme, GREAT #4 CB), Boyce (SMART, fast and tough in the 4th rd) and Beauharnais (4th-5th rd talent in rd 7, a leader, hitter and tackle machine) and the Blount trade (better than Bolden, adds nastiness)

    LIKE Dobson (is he smart enough?), Collins (does he have the motor and desire?) and Buchanan (will he revert to 2011 form? although gotta love 7th rd value)

    HATE Harmon

    The Pats could have traded down from 91 into the 100-115 range and picked up Barrett Jones or Alex Okafor as well as a 6th rd pick. A pass rush specialist or interior O-line depth was much more important than a 5th safety.

    Harmon would have been available in rd 6 around pick 175.

    same thing with Tavon Wilson last year. Nobody cares that he looked ok, or BB had him rated thatb high. He 99.99% would have been there in rd 4. you take Kendell Reyes and pick Wilson later on every day of the week and twice on Sunday.




         Well said, brother. Especially with regards to your comments on the Harmon pick.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

     

     

    For the D, I didn't feel like they needed any starter upgrades. Ideally, sure, I could point out 5/6 positions. But realistically, I can't expect 7 Pro Bowl caliber players...it'd be nice to have, but silly to expect.

    The O needed ONE thing...an outside WR. They drafted 3. 1 of them is likely to be at least serviceable, and that's as much as I can hope for. Do I wish they found a Greg Jnnings type? Obviously, but who knows! I'm very curious to watch Dobson get out there. And considering Ds will have to watch Gronk, Hern, Amendola and the RBs first, there is potential there for him to find some very soft coverages. That size, speed and hands, and likely looking at a LOT of single converages, and TB as his QB...well, he doesn't have to be great...he just needs to be a legit NFL player.

    The Pats are drafting from a position of strength in that most of their starters were already in place. Now either these guys add depth, or outplay a current starter, and raise the level of the team.

    Win/Win!


    Great post I feel the same way, except the Harmon pick was such bad value in the top 100, you can't dismiss it as 'ok' b/c the 'need' wasn't for a S who would break into the top 4. BB will now likely be cutting 1 of T. Wilson, Ebner, Harmon and Gregory in camp. Won't be carrying 6 safeties. So that hurts.

     




    RESPONSE: I disagree, in that I see the "D" needing upgrades, as I explained in my previous post. But, I agree with you about the Harmon pick at #91 overall. Would have rather seen the team address another need (DT, OL depth, WR, or...to take a flier on a Matt Barkley or Ryan Nassib. Taking either of them at #91 seemed to be an acceptable risk...with a chance of a very high reward. Harmon likely could have been had in round 7. But, even if that's not the case, it doesn't seem to be worth spending the 91st overall pick in the draft just to add a little more competition at safety. I don't see Harmon as either an upgrade, or a potential difference maker.

     

     



    By my count, your original premise is totally untrue. Most do not feel disappointed in this draft. How do you respond to that TexasPat

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    BB is a rare coach.  BB runs a team based on philosophies of the game.  His teams are built with players who best fits this and he molds the team around this instead of molding his team around players.  There are two flaws to this... Depth and less over all talent.  At the end of the day they couldn't win the big games due to not having quality depth in key positions, therefore losing to more talented teams.

    RESPONSE: You're half right. Because of how BB drafts, and because he doesn't overpay for players, he may not have the talent that other teams has...but he usually has plenty of depth. No team in the league has dealt with injury problems over the past decade better than the Pats.

     

    He isn't going to change his approach.  He's does things differently then any other coach out there.  He is the smartest coach in football and I wouldn't want any other coach.  Every time I watch a Pats game I'm excitied, not only to watch the game and the players but to watch BB coach and watch what he has put together.  It's very amazing, year in and year out, no other coach has a team in a position to win it all every single year for such a long time.  But, in the end they have the same problem.  Injury, lack of quality depth and losing to a more talented team on the field that day.

    RESPONSE: No one is going to successfully replace a Tom Brady, Gronk, or a Wes Welker, when they go out. In the NFL, a team needs to be both good and lucky to win. The Pats have not been lucky over the past two years. Untimely injuries to Gronk likely cost them at least one championship. A McCourty, Arrington, or a Kyle Love can be replaced. But, top flight players like Gronk don't grow on trees.

     

    Based on the moves the Pats have made this off season and in the draft I don't see a SB winning team.

    RESPONSE: Agreed. I'm of the opinion, right now, that they're competitors have had a better off season than the Pats.

     

      But by the time this team takes the field everything will be in place to make another run at the Championship and they will be there in the playoffs once again.  Will this year be the year they can escape the injuries to key players and be able to play in the playoffs and the SB with the most talented players on the team on the field?  We shall see, and once again I can't wait for the season to start.

    RESPONSE: As long as BB coaches and Tom Brady is still capable of playing QB at a high level, I tend to agree.

     

    With regards to football... This is Bill Belichicks world and we are just living in it.

    RESPONSE: LOL!! 

     




     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to qball369's comment:

    I think the first thing to realize is that this draft was widely viewed as being a depth building draft, with play makers being in short supply - only 5 skill position players were taken in the 1st round - this fact tends to support the premise - it is clear that the Patriots viewed the draft as a depth building draft

    For all of you pooping all over this draft - can you name for me the players that either the Ravens or 49ers drafted last year that were they key to getting them into the SB?

    RESPONSE: An artful choice of words here...in limiting the scope of players drafted by the Ravens and 49ers to just last year. In the 2011 draft, the 9ers added DE Aldon Smith, and starting QB Colin Kaepernick. In 2011, the Ravens added starting CB Jimmy Smith, starting deep threat WR, Torrey Smith, and, in 2012, added starting OG Kelechi Osemele. They also added WRs Anquan Boldin and Jacobi Jones, through free agency. 

     

    I have been as disappointed as anyone in the Pats losing the SB 2 seasons ago and losing in the AFC title last year - but to be honest, these losses were due to flaws the Pats were known to have going in:

    1. The Patriots have lacked the ability to legitimately threaten the outside and deep parts of the field since Randy Moss left

    2. The Patriots pass D has struggled for several seasons in getting off the field in key situations

    IMO  - the Patriots lost the Jets Playoff game in 2011 and the AFC title game in January due largely to the Patriots inability to threaten the outside of the field - those teams had D's that could bottle up middle of the field - the Patriots failed to or were unable to adjust - they lost

    The Patriots lost the SB to the Giants due to their porous pass D - they simply couldn't get the stops they needed to win the game

    So - how do they address in this draft? - They draft a linebacker who projects as being very effective in pass coverage(the biggest weakness in the otherwise solid Patriots LB corps), they draft a big, fast, smart WR, they draft a solid 2-3 CB prospect, a safety who likes to hit(something the Pats lack now that Chung is gone), they draft another WR - one who can create matchup challenges due to his potential to play outside due to his size, and the slot due to his feet - they trade a 7th and a dead asset to get a RB 2 seasons removed from a 1000 yd season, and 2 7th round picks, one of whom has real upside ( Michael Buchanan)

    So, whether you are excited about the particular players that the Patriots drafted, it seems impossible to criticize their attempts to address areas of clear need

    RESPONSE: Sorry...but your "hard hitting safety", Harmon, had no business being selected at pick #91. This marks two years in a row now that BB has used a high draft choice to reach for a safety. 

     

    I think it is also worth mentioning that the Patriots started the draft with significant money left under the cap, and will not be saddled with any very expensive contracts from the draft - this should leave them in a positon to continue to address areas of need(pass rush, OL depth) post draft - when the 2nd round of team cuts start happening as other teams have to trim payroll to sign THEIR picks  - The Patriots have had success in the past picking up good players in situations like this

    RESPONSE: Good point. 

     

    So TP - there is some reason for optimism - the Pats as contructed last year were good enough to be in AFC title game last year, and were clearly the better team in the 1st half without the best current player on their roster not named Brady ( Gronk) - they did this with a largely re-tooled D who should get better this year with experience - I personally felt the Pats looked better on D after they acquired Talib then they had since 2008 

    Count me as a fan who wasn't looking for a savior from the draft  - and its a long way til training camp in the summer - and the have lots of roster spots - let's see how they fill the team out before training camping before taking a schizz on this season

    RESPONSE: Thanks. I enjoyed reading your excellent post!




     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brady2Moss07. Show Brady2Moss07's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to Brady2Moss07's comment:

     

    Texas pat, why not find a team who's draft you liked and root for them. It's hard not to trust in BB  given he will likely go down as the greatest coach in history.

    RESPONE: Greatest coach...YES. Greatest GM? NO!  

    The likes oF Kiper, McShay, etc... Don't build teams. They grade individual players. Do you go back and see how many times draft prognosticators where wrong?

    RESPONSE: Can you deny that BB has had some very poor drafts in 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and wasted the top pick in the 2nd round in 2011 on a guy who was injury prone in college, and spent the 48th overall pick last year, reaching for Tavon Wilson? Judging from the fact that BB against reached for a safety wityh a high pick this year...does that seem like a ringing endorsement of the abilities of Wilson? 

     




     



    We don't yet know that T Wilson is a reach. Ever think about giving a player more than 1 year? He did have 4 INTs which is not bad for limited play as a rookie

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    Simple Tex. NE added length and athleticism at two roster spots they needed in the second round. Yeah, Duron, the kid from planet X as I call him, (doesn't his name sound like a B-Sci Fi villain?) was a bit of a question mark, but we don't know either way. But Dobson, Collins, and Ryan are really good selections, one of them representing a significant value at 83, and the other two being selected right where they belong. 

    NE needs speed and physicality and size at WR ... they adressed that with the second best regarded big WR in the draft, and a guy who was just a hair behind Hunter to boot. Really, people would be thrilled if they stuck around and drafted Hunter, but as prospects go ... I don't see too much difference, really.

    Collins adds explosiveness from the edge, and a guy who can stand already. He is aggressive, and was a sought after second round talent. Again, a freak of nature type athlete. I'm sure many would have applauded Sam Montgomery as a pick there, but given how far everyone let him fall, it seems like hypocrisy. Another reason I like the selection is because it mimics (really) how Pitt drafts OLB/DEs .... they actually tend to draft OLBs instead of gargantuan DEs. I think Collins seems like a Pitt type of pick, out of BB's character.  

    NE needed to get more athletic on the edge on defense and at the perimeter on offense. They really did. 

    Logan Ryan was slated to go as high as the second by many analysts. He slipped a bit. Yes, he sounds exactly like another heartbreaking flop (smart??  check tackling ?? check coverage?? just average = sound like a profile we know fro other drafts?) but on balance he was again well regarded as a zone/tackle CB, and a guy who they can bring along in the system. Also, the kid competes like all get out. This is something that was really missing from a host of their selections at DB, but was "there" with the lowly Dennard selection. I like his chances better than I liked anyone not including th DMC selection. 

    I'll refrain from evaluating Emperor Duron, mostly because like everyone else, I'd never even heard his name before the draft ... 

    The rest was just adding competition.

    In conclusion, yes they did not select in the first ... but they selected two second round talents in the second, and got a crack at one faller in the third. The way I see it ...  they got three 2nd picks that address areas of major weakness on the team. And really ... really .... only one of them has to become a star, and the whole draft is a positive. 



         RESPONSE: Thanks for your excellent post! It seems that we are on the same page. But for that awful use of the 91st overall pick used to select Harmon, I was okay with the remaining picks. Collins was a better choice than LSU's Sam Montgomery. I saw Monty play many times last season, and was not impressed. But, the draft could have been a homerun, if only BB had refrained from reaching for a safety, for the second straight year. Some very good players were available at 91, such as Barrett Jones and Jesse Williams from Alabama, WR Stedman Bailey, and the two QBs, Barkley and Nassib. Had BB chosen any of those players at #91, and rolled dice that Harmon would be around later, I would be doing back-flips right now!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brady2Moss07. Show Brady2Moss07's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

     

     

    For the D, I didn't feel like they needed any starter upgrades. Ideally, sure, I could point out 5/6 positions. But realistically, I can't expect 7 Pro Bowl caliber players...it'd be nice to have, but silly to expect.

    The O needed ONE thing...an outside WR. They drafted 3. 1 of them is likely to be at least serviceable, and that's as much as I can hope for. Do I wish they found a Greg Jnnings type? Obviously, but who knows! I'm very curious to watch Dobson get out there. And considering Ds will have to watch Gronk, Hern, Amendola and the RBs first, there is potential there for him to find some very soft coverages. That size, speed and hands, and likely looking at a LOT of single converages, and TB as his QB...well, he doesn't have to be great...he just needs to be a legit NFL player.

    The Pats are drafting from a position of strength in that most of their starters were already in place. Now either these guys add depth, or outplay a current starter, and raise the level of the team.

    Win/Win!


    Great post I feel the same way, except the Harmon pick was such bad value in the top 100, you can't dismiss it as 'ok' b/c the 'need' wasn't for a S who would break into the top 4. BB will now likely be cutting 1 of T. Wilson, Ebner, Harmon and Gregory in camp. Won't be carrying 6 safeties. So that hurts.

     




    RESPONSE: I disagree, in that I see the "D" needing upgrades, as I explained in my previous post. But, I agree with you about the Harmon pick at #91 overall. Would have rather seen the team address another need (DT, OL depth, WR, or...to take a flier on a Matt Barkley or Ryan Nassib. Taking either of them at #91 seemed to be an acceptable risk...with a chance of a very high reward. Harmon likely could have been had in round 7. But, even if that's not the case, it doesn't seem to be worth spending the 91st overall pick in the draft just to add a little more competition at safety. I don't see Harmon as either an upgrade, or a potential difference maker.

     

     



    We don't need to carry a third QB 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to tanbass' comment:

    Hey TP...sounds like you are tired of all the "In Bill We Trust" folks.....just like most of us are tired of the "The sky is Falling" types. It's a wash really.

    RESPONSE: Stop it! Any time anyone dares to criticize BB, you homers jump all over them with personal attacks. It ruins what could be some very insightful football discussions. 


    Some of us choose to be somewhat rational knowing you can't possibly judge the new talent for at least a year or two. Then folks like your self who get their panties in a wad because BB didn't draft your favorite names.

    RESPONSE: Case in point. You homers proclaim yourselves to be the rational ones...while those critical of BB are said to get their panties in a wad"...because BB didn't draft "their favorite names. How am I supposed to respond to that? How would you respond to that? How arrogant and ignorant can you homers like you get? Is it any wonder why guys like you irritate folks here far more than do the so-called trolls.

     

    You whined for months over the draft last year because of one pick (YOU) didn't like....and here we are again. Just because we don't cry like you over a pick doesn't mean we are swinging from BB's nutsack. Enjoy your misery dude!!

    REPONSE: You may not swing on BB's sack, but yourself and guys like you sure as hell keep constant vigilance and maintanance over it. Now...go brush your teeth, kiss your BB poster, and say nitey night. 




     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from stillgridlocked. Show stillgridlocked's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

         Good morning, my friends! Judging from the posts I've read in the wake of the 2013 draft, most Pats fans are very unhappy with the results. There appears to be a lack of optimism and enthusiasm on this forum. I have an idea why many of you feel that way. My personal thoughts on the draft are pretty well known.

         What I'm looking for in this thread is some optimism. I want somebody to explain to me why the Patriots did much better than most of us apparently feel. BUT PLEASE...spare me the "In Bill We Trust" montras. I'm looking for your own gut opinions, and football reasons, backed by common sense and facts...as to why you feel that the players taken were good selections, and why you feel that the Patriots gained on their top opposition...the Denver Broncos, Bengals, Texans, Ravens, and the free spending Miami Dolphins.

         I look forward to reading your responses. 

       

     



    I can't say why the Pats did much better than fans think because I like most fans am not a professional scout.

     

    I'm excited the Pats drafted two big physical receivers who apparently know how to run routes and can contribute right away.

    Collins is apparently a fast physical linebacker and Buchanan may end up being a steal for the Pats.

    I don't know what to make of the Rutgers connection. Every other team was drafting SEC.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to tanbass' comment:

     

    Hey TP...sounds like you are tired of all the "In Bill We Trust" folks.....just like most of us are tired of the "The sky is Falling" types. It's a wash really.

    RESPONSE: Stop it! Any time anyone dares to criticize BB, you homers jump all over them with personal attacks. It ruins what could be some very insightful football discussions. 


    Some of us choose to be somewhat rational knowing you can't possibly judge the new talent for at least a year or two. Then folks like your self who get their panties in a wad because BB didn't draft your favorite names.

    RESPONSE: Case in point. You homers proclaim yourselves to be the rational ones...while those critical of BB are said to get their panties in a wad"...because BB didn't draft "their favorite names. How am I supposed to respond to that? How would you respond to that? How arrogant and ignorant can you homers like you get? Is it any wonder why guys like you irritate folks here far more than do the so-called trolls.

     

    You whined for months over the draft last year because of one pick (YOU) didn't like....and here we are again. Just because we don't cry like you over a pick doesn't mean we are swinging from BB's nutsack. Enjoy your misery dude!!

    REPONSE: You may not swing on BB's sack, but yourself and guys like you sure as hell keep constant vigilance and maintanance over it. Now...go brush your teeth, kiss your BB poster, and say nitey night. 

     




     




    Hi there TP! i respect ur draft breakdwns so...how did my jints do in ur opinion?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from newenglanderinexile. Show newenglanderinexile's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to Brady2Welker47's comment:

    I will answer that question for you.

     

    BC most of us are tired of NE and BB trading down for solid players and not going for the can't miss type of player...We are all well aware of Brady's window closing and.we would prefer going all in..quality over Quantity...I love what BB has done and I understand that BC of him the Pats have continued excellence but the Brady window is closing and we would like impact players..just an opinion ..go Pats!!!




    So who are these can't miss impact players available at the very end of the first round, where the Patriots usually pick?  If the draft is such an easy matter, how come some NFL teams have never even been in a Super Bowl?   

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    !

    I feel great about this draft. Two WRs who could both be solid gold. One Moss like with a more team type attitude and the other a combination of Givens and Branch.

    So we got a pair of TEs at the same time, a pair of RBs, a pair of OL. Now it is a pair of WRs.

    I do not know enough about Collins and the others but I have HOPE. So we will see. But we got some things going here! Big Time!

    Add to that the FAs esp Kelly and Armstead and we are looking like we will finally be able to beat those pesky Jets (with our practice squad).

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimmytantric. Show jimmytantric's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

         Good morning, my friends! Judging from the posts I've read in the wake of the 2013 draft, most Pats fans are very unhappy with the results. There appears to be a lack of optimism and enthusiasm on this forum. I have an idea why many of you feel that way. My personal thoughts on the draft are pretty well known.

         What I'm looking for in this thread is some optimism. I want somebody to explain to me why the Patriots did much better than most of us apparently feel. BUT PLEASE...spare me the "In Bill We Trust" montras. I'm looking for your own gut opinions, and football reasons, backed by common sense and facts...as to why you feel that the players taken were good selections, and why you feel that the Patriots gained on their top opposition...the Denver Broncos, Bengals, Texans, Ravens, and the free spending Miami Dolphins.

         I look forward to reading your responses. 

       




    Well here's my take TP--The Draft is a crapshoot for ALL teams and the Pats could have drafted 3 Pro bowl players or then they could have drafted a bunch of Nobodys and that goes for all teams-so many variables-step up in competition big time- Big Money now for 22 year olds-pyschological frames of minds-etc who knows -but I will end on a positive---based on my mathematical formulations the Pats are due to have just drafted a stud WR and DB.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbruu. Show bredbruu's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

         Good morning, my friends! Judging from the posts I've read in the wake of the 2013 draft, most Pats fans are very unhappy with the results. There appears to be a lack of optimism and enthusiasm on this forum. I have an idea why many of you feel that way. My personal thoughts on the draft are pretty well known.

         What I'm looking for in this thread is some optimism. I want somebody to explain to me why the Patriots did much better than most of us apparently feel. BUT PLEASE...spare me the "In Bill We Trust" montras. I'm looking for your own gut opinions, and football reasons, backed by common sense and facts...as to why you feel that the players taken were good selections, and why you feel that the Patriots gained on their top opposition...the Denver Broncos, Bengals, Texans, Ravens, and the free spending Miami Dolphins.

         I look forward to reading your responses. 

     
    ...If you ignore the second pick of the third round(hell the real reason you dislike it is because you didn't know who he was, it shouldn't be hard) you can't really argue with the first 4 rounds.

    RESPONSE: No, Joe! Again, the reason that I hated the Harmon pick was because of where he was selected. Using the 91st overall pick on a guy why likely would have been around in round 7 makes no sense to me. Besides, why was there a need for yet another safety? Didn't we spend the 48th overall pick in last years' draft on Tavon Wilson? Was taking Harmon early an admission that Tavon can't cut it? I saw many other players available at #91 that could have a greater impact on the team...either in 2013, or in the future. For example, OT Barrett Jones would have provided needed OL depth...DT Jesse Williams would have been a good value pick at #91...WR Stedman Bailey would have been a good addition late in round 3...RB Marcus Lattimore has first round potential, if he can fully recover from his knee injury...QBs Matt Barkley and Ryan Nassib could have been groomed to eventually replace the aging Tom Brady.

         As I have stated previously, I liked the Pats' draft...with the glaring exception of the Harmon pick at #91. Had one of the alternatives listed above been named, and a flier was taken on Harmon in round 7, I would be doing back-flips this morning!

     




     



    agreed

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbruu. Show bredbruu's posts

    Re: Post Draft Blues

    In response to Brady2Welker47's comment:

    I will answer that question for you.

     

    BC most of us are tired of NE and BB trading down for solid players and not going for the can't miss type of player...We are all well aware of Brady's window closing and.we would prefer going all in..quality over Quantity...I love what BB has done and I understand that BC of him the Pats have continued excellence but the Brady window is closing and we would like impact players..just an opinion ..go Pats!!!



    welll said!

     

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