Postseason VS SuperBowl

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Postseason VS SuperBowl

    Does Defense still win Championships?  Well yes and no. 

    Like Warren Sapp sais. The Defense gives you a chance, but the offense still has to seal the deal and score points.

    We have talked a lot of the postseason success here or lack their of and I thought I would look at some numbers throughout the years.

    I think you need a defense to get through the postseason and into the SB, but I dont think you need a great defense to win the SB.

    Hear me out.


    The Steelers were the Defensive team of last years SB but lost in a shootout 31-25.

    Traditionally the SB has been a track meet. Partly because everything is on the line and teams want to score. They cant afford to play it close, they have 2 weeks to draw up plays to SCORE and usually both teams go up and down the field and most times its the last person with the ball that wins.


    Now contrast that to our last SB. We came in with the highest scoring offense in history and only put up 14 points. The last time a team won a SB by only scoring 17 or less was in 1975 when the Steelers beat the Vikes 16-6.


    The Pats have won a SB that was a shootout vs Carolina.
    They won in a low scoring tight game vs the Rams
    They won going by a last second defensive stop vs the Eagles.

    Out of all the AFC playoff teams, the Pats are the only team that wins with offense.

    Texan, Ravens and Bronco's(if they get in) all have lower scoring offenses that rely on defense and ball control.

    The Steelers ran 19 for 93
    The Pack ran 11 for 52

    Rodgers had a 115 qb rating
    Rothlesburger had a 74 rating


    I know you are probably thinking get to the point.

    Well my point is, you need a defense to get you through the postseason, but in the SB, you need a good Qb to have a good game.

    Most SB's are track meets. We lost SB 42 because our QB didnt play well.

    If we make it to the SB again this year, as bad as our defense is, it will be up to Brady to win the game and if we dont he will get the blame and should.

    Its already a given that teams are gonna score in the Sb, you have to match it.

    The average points scored for all 46 SB winners is 32 ppg.


    This tells me that you need to score, and even if you dont run that well, you can score but you have to execute in the passing game which we didnt to well in 07.


    So with our upgrades on Offense(Gronk, Hernandez)  and Downgrades(No Moss, no real 3rd wr)

    would we put up enough points to win the game?  Judging by history, we would probably have to put up 40 plus with our defense.


    Does anyone believe Brady can put up 40 in the SB by himself with no running game?  O'brien would have to call the game of his life.

    Is this why B.B. passes so much in regular season to tune up  that offense for the playoffs?  Can our defense just get us thru a couple of postseason games until we tell our QB to win a QB for us?



    Like I mentioned in the QB post, if this team got that far, THEY WILL take the Lombardi.

    Reason being....Defense win playoff games, but Offense Win Superbowls.

    Our 07 defense did its job by holding the Giants to 17 and our offense failed to live up to expectations.

    The proof is there. SB winners on average score 32 ppg, going all the way back to fullback dominated teams of the 60's so I still will never blame our defense for losing that game.


    This is why O'bie blew up on Brady. Not because they almost lost the Skins, but because mistakes like that must be fixed now before the playoffs were Brady is gonna once again need to be perfect.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Postseason VS SuperBowl

    Spare me....Please stall me out with the B.S.

    You got something to add?  No, I didnt think so.


    Situational football sais not to leave that much time for a comeback.

    In those situations you have to manage the clock.

    I seem to recall a PASS to Moss in the endzone from 5 yards in.  Maybe you run the ball a couple times and kill some clock first.

    You obviously didnt read much. Your defense can only do so much in the SB.

    Stakes are High, and good QB's are supposed to move the ball. Eli wanted it, we gave him a chance to get it.

    Offense should have ended the game.
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Postseason VS SuperBowl

    Saints and Packers both teams reknowned for having a prolific offense. Still, the most egregious example would be when the Sanders-less Colts could not stop the run and most thought their pass rush wasn't what it used to be. The D managed to play well enough for them to win against teams with stingy defenses (ravens).  Instead of teams with a great run game and great defense we see offensive juggernauts with a turnover-based defense winning. This is partly due to the rule changes and the influx of PI calls. It seems like you hardly ever hear announcer use the phrase "incidental contact" anymore when describing a DB's coverage on a WR. You're much more likely to hear something like "that will draw a flag".  This is why I have come to believe that, aside from QB, CB is the most difficult position to play in this current incarnation of offensive football.

    I like what I am saw from the D against Denver. The D gave them lanes to run in and then BB and the coaching staff gradually took  away those lanes with four and five man fronts and collapsed the pocket. The Pats D defended the read/t-wing option poorly in the first quarter, but by the second the D defended it very well. This all part of Belichick's MO: he makes the opposing offense  do one thing well then he gradually takes away that  one thing an opposing offense does well.
     
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    Re: Postseason VS SuperBowl

    In Response to Re: Postseason VS SuperBowl:
    In Response to Re: Postseason VS SuperBowl : And maybe you go with what works in ORDER to SCORE a TD?  Isn't the object to score MORE than the opponent, and not satisfying the morons on a discussion forum? How many carries at one yard a pop is it going to take to score a TD from five yards out?  Do the math..
    Posted by Patsfansince1966



    And why do you assume we would only get one yard per carry?

    Nevermind.  I dont know why I respond to you. You just wanna be a smart a ss..

    Like I said, bad situational football.  Happened the same way again this year vs Eli.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Postseason VS SuperBowl

    ^ 66 is one of the only posters here I have on ignore.

    Anyway despite what my Rodney Harrison(among others) quote says defense no longer wins championships in the new look NFL. It is impossible to shutdown QB's with the way defensive players are being penalized. I would love to see the financial tally at the end of the year for player fines collected by the league.

    I think this is why BB really focused on building his team around the offense in the recent years. I also think its why he drafted so many D-backs the last 4 years. His whole premise on defense is to get a lead on offense and wait for desperation passes from opposing QB's. It is the reason so many of these high scoring offense's are also tops in the league at int's and turnovers in general. Shoot as many yards as the Packers give up they lead the league by almost 10 int's!

    Opportunistic defense and high scoring offense is what wins championships now a days. It is the reason I am always defending the D(to a certain extent) and critical of the offense at times. I realize that the O is our bread and butter and if they don't play well in the playoffs we have little chance to win a SB.

    In short, Defense doesn't win championships....Tom Brady does.
     
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    Re: Postseason VS SuperBowl

    In Response to Re: Postseason VS SuperBowl:
    Shizzly is correct. The only underdog scenario would be NE against GB.  If the Pats make it, Brady will be a superior to really every QB but Brees in the entire NFL. This is an offensive era and a QB league, which is why some of us have been wanting Brady to be a better QB from a management standpoint, not just gawking at stats. I can't even think of the last time an inferior QB won in a SB over the superior QB. You could argue Roethlisberger v.s. Warner, but at that point Warner was older. Maybe Brad Johnson v.s. Rich Gannon, but really, in essensce, neither was significantly better than the other. Elway vs Favre in 1998?  Elway was older, so you could make a case Favre was the better QB then. It's a rarity.  Said it before, will say it again: Our D will battle and keep the team in the game, allowing around 20 points.  It's up to Brady to be the Brady he can be.  This is like pretending your playoff hockey goalie can be mediocre and you will win a Stanley Cup. No way. You have to have goaltending and you have to have superior QB play. All the more reason why "the worst D" in the NFL is not the Pats and why passing yards allowed is bordering on irrelevant. It's about the red zone and not turning it over on offense. Or, on D, creating turnovers and not giving up the TD in the red zone.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII


    Yes you can. I won't even say it.
     
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    Re: Postseason VS SuperBowl

    In response to "Re: Postseason VS SuperBowl":
    THEY (not we) lost Super Bowl 42 because they didn't (and should have) stopped the two minute drive. Do NOT use words like "our" or "we" UNLESS you are physically a member of the Patriots team or front office.  Posted by Patsfansince1966
    We are gonna win in the playoffs we are gonna dominate we are gonna get to the qb we tell u to s.t.f.u
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from kevin13130. Show kevin13130's posts

    Re: Postseason VS SuperBowl

    I think you're right, Shizzle. If you look back the past several Super Bowls, it's been all about great QB's. Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady. These guys are the Super Bowl contenders and likely winners.

    It seems to me that defense has been rather unimportant, maybe because they are going up against such great QB's. Maybe their gameplan changes when the stakes of the game are so high. Whatever the reason, there have been a lot of shootout Super Bowls recently and defenses seem powerless to stop them.

    But like Shizzle said, that doesn't mean defense is irrelevant to winning the championship. You need a good D to get to the big game, and it certainly doesn't hurt to have that defense in the Super Bowl.

    With all the passing going on, though, I think it has really become a QB-driven league. Even more so than it was before. So I think, ultimately, quarterbacks win championships, but defense helps out.
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Postseason VS SuperBowl

    In Response to Re: Postseason VS SuperBowl:
    ^ 66 is one of the only posters here I have on ignore. Anyway despite what my Rodney Harrison(among others) quote says defense no longer wins championships in the new look NFL. It is impossible to shutdown QB's with the way defensive players are being penalized. I would love to see the financial tally at the end of the year for player fines collected by the league. I think this is why BB really focused on building his team around the offense in the recent years. I also think its why he drafted so many D-backs the last 4 years. His whole premise on defense is to get a lead on offense and wait for desperation passes from opposing QB's. It is the reason so many of these high scoring offense's are also tops in the league at int's and turnovers in general. Shoot as many yards as the Packers give up they lead the league by almost 10 int's! Opportunistic defense and high scoring offense is what wins championships now a days. It is the reason I am always defending the D(to a certain extent) and critical of the offense at times. I realize that the O is our bread and butter and if they don't play well in the playoffs we have little chance to win a SB. In short, Defense doesn't win championships....Tom Brady does.
    Posted by TrueChamp



    Thks Champ,. Excellent Post and exactly what i was trying to say with out all the stats to confuse people.

    I was telling Rusty even tho' joking that B.B. has purposely built a crap defense and thats not really true, but I do believe he puts the priority on building the offense because he has conceded that his defense will give up yards.

    His goal is to get RedZone stops and Have Brady put up TD's every time instead of FG's

    I think he established this philosophy in 07 when he started tellin the offense. "your job is to score when you are on the field"  He didnt care the situation of the score and wanted the offense to be used to scoring TD's every drive. Only problem is we failed in 07 SB.

    I think the pressure was too much combined w/Brady's bad foot all  over the N.Y. newspapers, the disprespecting of the Giants,. Tom Bradys scoff at a 20-17 prediction and Strahans speech to the offense before they went out for the game winning drive.
     
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    Re: Postseason VS SuperBowl

    In Response to Re: Postseason VS SuperBowl:
    Manning is superior to Brady? Rusty is a troll.
    Posted by Patsfansince1966


    Im assuming he forgot about 07....or like Dieon Sanders!  He believes in Eli


    To his credit though, Eli has some games this year he has played better than any Qb, but after last week I havent got that many good things to say. He has thrown some lovely balls, but in 07 he was def. inferior, its just that Brady had a bad foot and we still passed it 50 times.
     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Postseason VS SuperBowl

    In Response to Re: Postseason VS SuperBowl:
    In Response to Re: Postseason VS SuperBowl : Ask yourself why this is.  I think many of you missed the memo that said they were going to call illegal contact and PI more and only call offenseive holding once every 500 dropbacks or so. I counted about ten times the Broncos would have been called for offensive holding in the old days and that was only on their 22 pass attempts. I remember the Pats played the Redskins in an exhibition game in 1967 and they were getting killed.  The Pats had the ball and they were called for offensive holding THREE straight times-and holding was 15 yards back then.  Also, if your team was on the ten yard line and holding was called, it was a safety!  There was NO half the distance back then.
    Posted by Patsfansince1966



    Dam, you old!  no wonder you so cranky!  Well atleast you made a point this time.


    The lack of offensive holding penalties and the high amount of pass interference calls is all anyone should need to see for evidence that the league is setup for passers to succeed.


    Back in 03, 04, we would shut down the likes of Peyton Manning, Steve McNair(rip) and others who were pretty decent.

    Now a days, you cant even stop guys like Tebow from passing. Every QB in this league is just about capable of throwing up a 300 yard game. Maybe half can throw for 400 and a few can put up 500 at will if the plays are called for it..


    This is something B.B. knows and has changed his team to compete in this new era. Do i wish we still had a great defense?  Yes, but we dont have the defensive equivalent to a T.Brady on our team. SO in short, you put in your best players hands. I agree with this, but he needs help. We have seen what happens when he is forced to do it all.  Lets hope our flexible offense can put up some points in postseason and Brady brings his "A" game  - If he can just go into January healthy, I think thats huge!

    Right now, he is probably playing hurt.
     
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