Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    Yeah, Hoyer is a guy who has no market value. THe only way he would have some sort of mid rd value to a team is based on demand at the time you try to trade him AND him being showcased a lot in preseason.

    if anything, the fewer teams who have open QB competitions in camp, the less value a HOyer would have. So, the teams that are turning to a rookie or very young QB in the draft, etc, won't want Hoyer.

    A team like Cleveland that would want to push McCoy, would.  But, not for a 2nd. It'd be more of a 4th rd type thing, which is still good return. Hoyer was UNDRAFTED.

    Scouts and GMs want to see what he looks like in preseason even if there aren't gameplans being used.  The second I saw Brady I knew he had something. The second I saw Rodgers in a nationally televised game I knew the same.  I was mocked by a buddy of mine who is a Vikes fan who didn't want to admit GB hit on Rodgers.

    You can tell when a QB has something to work from in this league. Flynn and Ryan Fitzpatrick are others.  It's about being a good leader, being accurate and deliberate in the pocket.

    If you show that consistently, great.  The problem with Hoyer is he's been buried.  Obviosuly, being tutored behind Brady has tremendous value, so there is a chance a team would also value that similary with Cassel's situation.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from msteven. Show msteven's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    We gave upa  a2nd and a 7th for Welker so that Miami waived the RFA tag.  If someone did the same for Hoyer, I would be happy.  I think when they look at film on him, they will see he is accurate and makes all the throws.  Looking at where a player was drafted does not affect what they are worth when their contract is up.  If that was the case, where would that leave Brady, BJGE, Welker, and Cassell.  They played their way to a payday.  Hoyer has done the same.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    I would give Hoyer and Mallett more extensive preseason work, the former in particular.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    Deadline to extend qualifying tenders to RFAs is tomorrow at 4, when free agency begins.  RFA tenders are not guaranteed so we may tender him at the 2nd round level, because no lower level is available since he was undrafted.  However, we could tender him at the undrafted rate and have right of first refusal but would get no compensation if he signs elsewhere.

    I'd bet we'll use the 2nd round tender then try to trade him for whatever we can get, 5-7 round pick most likely.  Nobody will give us a 2nd and beat the $1.9MM contract that comes with it.  Sorry, I wish they would but it ain't happening.

    If we don't get any takers, we may release him after the draft to clear cap space to sign our rookies.
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    In Response to Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising:
    [QUOTE]I would give Hoyer and Mallett more extensive preseason work, the former in particular.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]
    I'd give Mallett the clipboard next year.  Hoyer is/was a stop gap at best, a game manager.  He is not ever going to be an elite QB.  Mallett has a riffle arm, can make all the throws, should've been a first round pick but we got him in the 3rd.  Mallett is a potential replacement for Brady in 2-3 years, not Hoyer.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    Hoyer is worth 4th pick the way I see it, mabe a 3rd if lucky. BB is a little thin in the later rounds this year where he likes to find value also...so maybe they will find a way to stock up draft picks....then again BB will also likely trade picks as well to get there.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    In Response to Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising : I'd give Mallett the clipboard next year.  Hoyer is/was a stop gap at best, a game manager.  He is not ever going to be an elite QB.  Mallett has a riffle arm, can make all the throws, should've been a first round pick but we got him in the 3rd.  Mallett is a potential replacement for Brady in 2-3 years, not Hoyer.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Right, but you don't sell it like that. You show Hoyer a lot in preseason, see if anyone comes calling and then also get him into as many blowout games as possible during the year, with the idea to unload him in the offseason.

    2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012. That would be a good, strong 4 years of progression under Brady.  If you're looking for a mature QB to try out and possibly lead your team, that's attractive. It would be for me if I was a GM.  A lot better than rolling the dice on a college prospect that you aren't sure of until years later.

    The second you do what you just suggest, he has less value.  I agree Mallet should be the guy, but IMO, I wouldn't do anything to tell other teams that by demoting Hoyer.  That's someting the Jets would do. haha
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    In Response to Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising : +1 We got a 2nd for Cassel who started an entire season.  Why would we get a 2nd for Hoyer who has not started a game and went undrafted meaning he wasn't some big shot prospect like Mallett.  Not saying the guy is useless or couldn't have a nice career somewhere else, but a team would have to be insane to give up a 2nd for him.
    Posted by pcmIV[/QUOTE]


    Lots of the same people who think we can get a 2nd for Hoyer were disappointed we didn't get a 1st for Cassel. This despite the great lack of interest in Cassel league-wide. It's all part of the overrating syndrome that infests some fans.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    Hoyer has at times been the only backup quarterback in a contender year.  That says something.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    In Response to Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising : Agreed.  We were fortunate to get a second for him.  That was only because of Pioli, who decided to give up big money and a pick.  How's that working out in KC?  It'll likely cost him his job.
    Posted by Bustchise[/QUOTE]

    You clearly are a Jets troll.  How is it working out? Piolie has them on a track to win that division next year, especially after quickly and wisely disposing of Haley and promoting Crennel.

    An All Pro 2010 season works out pretty good if you are a Chiefs fan.  I wouldn't expect Cassel to be as good with a new OC, without Jamal Charles , along with Brandon Albert still looking like a turnstyle at LT or Cassel injured in 2011.

    If Weis wasn't so hellbent on taking different jobs every year, KC is a legit SB contender tomorrow.

    You've proven to be somewhat of a troll here recently. 

    As for the 2nd rounder, it was a great move for both sides.  No one has ever tagged a backup Qb at 16 million before and had no leverage to turn a 7th rd pick into 2nd rd value, 4 years later.


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Cyberknot. Show Cyberknot's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    In Response to Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising:
    [QUOTE]We won't get much for Hoyer unless somebody stupid comes along.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]
    I'm gonna miss Al Davis.
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    A player's value minus his salary is his trade value.

    Matt Cassel was franchised for $14 million for one year.  His trade value was his value for one season minus $14 million, plus a residual value because for the team that owns Hoyer's first year he would be slightly easier to sign.  Cassel's actual value minus $14 million wasn't much, although he was certainly valued at over $14 million per year at the time.  He signed for $16 million.

    Hoyer's salary for 2012 might be in the $2 million range depending on his high offer / medium offer, and if he's as good as BB's actions give him credit, he might be worth $8 million a year.  I expect that Hoyer is better than the Sanchize, for example, and look what the Sanchize got this month.

    So, what amount of draft choices are worth saving $6 million in cap money over 1 year, plus a shot at signing Hoyer long term? 

    BB won't hesitate to hang onto Hoyer for one more year, and let his contract expire in free agency, if the Patriots don't see adequate compensation.  Brady's body isn't perfect any longer, and so Hoyer has a value to the team measured in wins if Brady doesn't play for whatever reason.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    I agree with the keep Hoyer as insurance. He's cheap and the pass to Gronk was a thing of beauty.
    I'll tell you where he makes sense is in Indy. He is smart and good enough *IMHO* to manage a game. He would be cheap and a good mentor for Luck. Best case is Luck is good enough you dont have to play him. Hoyer is a good perpetual backup. MattCasselesque.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    In Response to Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising : The fact that we were able to get a second rounder for him is incredible.  It was likely a deal in place with Pioli prior to the tag because we had zero leverage at that point.   We would have been in a bad way had KC not given up a pick for the right to pay Cassel 10 mil a year.   Nobody else would have done that and we would have had 2 QBs making big money.  I'm not sure why you think Cassel is such a fantastic player or why you think that his decent year in 2010 somehow overshadows his horrible years in 2009 & 2011.  In 2010, the Chiefs had one win against a team with winning record.  ONE.  The Chiefs are in an awful division and had a losing season in 2011 where none of the teams in their division were able to have a winning record. You blame Haley for his awful 2011, but wasn't Haley their when he had his all world 2010 season?  The fact that Bill and Scott drafted him does not make him a great player.  Bill saw the opportunity to get rid of him and get something more than nothing and he wisely did it.
    Posted by Bustchise[/QUOTE]

    First of all, his 2009 was with a new team and it wasn' "horrible".  Second, Charles got hurt last year and that certainly isn't going to help a QB when you lose a lead RB, especially one like that.  Third, Moeaki also got hurt and he's like a Hernandez type talent. That left Bowe pretty much on his own as a passing target and a LG playing out of position at LT, still. 

    Add in Weis leaving and yet again having another new coordinator, one that's worse than Weis, and you have a slew of problems as compared to the 2010 season.

    Just because bozos at ESPN don't praise Cassel doesn't mean he isn't any good or "awful".  Horrendus analysis.
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mgraham. Show mgraham's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    Comparison to the Cassell  2nd round pick deal is altogether different. Mainly due to performance  ..but also i think there was a wink,wink, nod , nod  deal that also put Mike Vrabel into the package.  I dont think Gary Guyton as a throw in with a no-game resume  Hoyer would get a 2nd rounder
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    In Response to Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising : Wow!  That's a lot of excuses for one player.  You have a lot of emotion invested in guys that used to be on the team, huh?  I stand by my statement.  When you are the 25th ranked QB (2009 & 2011), you are awful, regardless of how many excuses you come up with as to he was so bad.  Bad coaching, injuries, tipped passes etc all just excuses.  New team? It was like his 5th year as a pro QB, he wasn't some rookie starting.  He got to sit behind TB for all those years.  When you get to play the Broncos, Raiders and Chargers twice a year and none of them can win more than 8 games, you ought to be a little better than 7-9 and the 25th ranked QB, especially if you're getting 10 mil a year.
    Posted by Bustchise[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, switching offensive coordinators every year is a good thing for any QB.  You're really an intelligent person. lol

    If Brady had new coordinators every year, lost BJGE (who is worse than Charles), Hernandez and only could throw to Welker all year, Brady wouldn't have very good stats either.

    I had no idea an injured QB in Cassel in the middle of the season is an "excuse". It's called a fact and reality.
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    In Response to Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising : Yeah, switching offensive coordinators every year is a good thing for any QB.  You're really an intelligent person. lol If Brady had new coordinators every year, lost BJGE (who is worse than Charles), Hernandez and only could throw to Welker all year, Brady wouldn't have very good stats either. I had no idea an injured QB in Cassel in the middle of the season is an "excuse". It's called a fact and reality.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    The fact is Brady threw to Reche Caldwell for a year and had better stats, but I don't want to see you get all worked up and be banned again:)

    I imagine they grew tired of you on the Bruin's board.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerh5. Show jerh5's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    In Response to Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising : The fact that we were able to get a second rounder for him is incredible.  It was likely a deal in place with Pioli prior to the tag because we had zero leverage at that point.   We would have been in a bad way had KC not given up a pick for the right to pay Cassel 10 mil a year.   Nobody else would have done that and we would have had 2 QBs making big money.  I'm not sure why you think Cassel is such a fantastic player or why you think that his decent year in 2010 somehow overshadows his horrible years in 2009 & 2011.  In 2010, the Chiefs had one win against a team with winning record.  ONE.  The Chiefs are in an awful division and had a losing season in 2011 where none of the teams in their division were able to have a winning record. You blame Haley for his awful 2011, but wasn't Haley their when he had his all world 2010 season?  The fact that Bill and Scott drafted him does not make him a great player.  Bill saw the opportunity to get rid of him and get something more than nothing and he wisely did it.
    Posted by Bustchise[/QUOTE]
      What are you saying? Pioli threw the pats a bone, by giving them a 2nd? If you believe that, then you are a fool. There are no such things as friends in the nfl. Business is business. They gave a 2nd because that was the cost.
     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising

    In Response to Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Price for Brian Hoyer keeps rising : ... We got a 2nd for Cassel and Vrabel combined after Cassel put up a heck of a big year starting 15 games.  You're dreaming my friend.  A second for Hoyer is insane.  Not even the Redskins are that stupid.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    THIS!!!
     
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