Prince Amukamara as a safety

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from nathan-ndeira. Show nathan-ndeira's posts

    Prince Amukamara as a safety

    I have a feeling the patriots may want to draft Prince and convert him into a safety, he has a great ball skills, very smart on the field, great in run support and can jam recievers on the line so he could be used in variety of ways as a safety, think of haveing a secondary with him and Chung at the back. we have 2 first round picks. so why not draft prince first, get a pass rusher with the second, draft an O-line with the first second, trade our 2 3rds into the second round and draft a 5-technique DE to me it sounds like a good draft.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    You aren't going to find a true 5 tech DE in the 2nd. All will be gone in the 1st maybe 1 sneaks into the early 2nd but most likely you'll find someone close to want we already have trading up in the 2nd not an upgrade.

    My feeling is that our pass rush was beyond bad last year. I read a stat that on average the Pats allowed 5+ sec to opposing QB's. Now that isn't 5+ secs until he was tackled that's until the QB threw the ball so who knows how long they could of had if they actually held it. It doesn't matter who is in your secondary if you are allowing that much time someone is getting open. So why trade up spending extra picks on a guy in the secondary when you aren't fixing the real problem first?

    When you talk about the rush for me it starts in the trenches and ripples backwards. In other words you need a Seymour type of player taking up blockers and moving the pocket around. They might not get the stats but their presence is still felt and improves everyone's play behind them. In this draft there are a number of players who have the ability to be that presence early in this draft at 17. You have to take one of those DE to complete the D rebuild they've been working on for the last 3 years to get back to where they were from 01-06.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Coolguy55220. Show Coolguy55220's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    Agree a good strong DE first and foremost, then work on the OLB, OL, RB/WR (either one).
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    Amukamara is a top ten pick.  I don't believe the Pats would trade up to get a CB/S.  It's not a top need.  Sure, I'd love to have the guy but it doesn't fill a priority.  Amukamara would be a luxury type pick for the Pats.  If he dropped to 17 which I highly doubt I would scoop him up in a second.  He would be by far the best player on the board.  Even with the needs of the Pats you couldn't pass up a talent like this.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    IF! they do go after Amukamara he won't be the guy converted it would be Bodden IMO.  He's 30 and moving to S would ensure him a few more years of football.

    Bodden IMO is built like a safety with cover conner skills.  He goes to FS, Merri never sees the field.

    Amukamara would not be the starter, would be Arrington until Amu gets reps and mid season he starts getting more reps.

    Ok now back to reality, they can't afford to go get him.  He won't get pass Houston at 11 so the pats would need to give up two good picks to move to 10.  IMO at 28 you won't be able to get a good DE, one that immediately improves the current roster.  Then there's also the OLB need, at 33 options are limited.  Could be only Sheard is available and because of some character concerns he might not even be on the Pats board.

    So you trade 17 and 60 to get Amukamara, then at 28 maybe get Watkins at 33 Sheard then there's no DE. 

    I rather have B. Burton in the 2nd around 60th, Burton is a very talented CB who can play nickle and develop to be Bodden's replacement.  And a CB who is not knows but could turn into something is Justin Rogers.

    Played for Richmond, considered their shut down CB.  After his come out party in 08 with 7 ints QBs decided not to throw his way and he still managed +3 ints per season.  5'11 190 4.42 40  4.20 shuttle 6.69 3 cone.  He's projected right now as a late round because of where he played but he had an excellent pro day and could be on the rise.  If he's available in the 4th or 5th his my pick.

    also take a look at Mark LeGree, might be surprised at what you find.  Another small school guy who dominated his competition which is what you want to see when this guy play against lesser talent.  Pats want a project FS this guy could be it.  Late round option.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    1. He'll be gone by 17.
    2. You don't trade up for CBs.
    3. NE doesn't need a Safety.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    This sort of reminds me of the "let's draft Tebow and make him a TE" threads from last year.  The guy is a CB.  Do the Pats need to draft a CB first off?  Not likely.  And why would they draft a guy who is widely regarded as the 2nd best CB in the upcoming draft to convert him to safety, which is hardly a position of need? 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    I wouldn't go as far as comparing this to Tebow.  CB and Safety are much more similar than QB and TE.  Nonetheless, it would be a bad value to give up a lot of assets to trade up, only to assume even more risk than usual because, on top of adjusting to the NFL, he'd have to learn a new position.

    I think J. J. Watt would be one of the best picks if he makes it that far because he's a 3-down defensive end who wouldn't require substitutions that give away what you're trying to defend.  Run-stopping and pocket-pushing from the same guy.

    If there's a 3-down OLB, he'd be good, although at this point I'd take a pass-rush specialist if he's THAT good at pass-rushing because they desperately need more pass rush.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    In Response to Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety:
    [QUOTE]I wouldn't go as far as comparing this to Tebow.  CB and Safety are much more similar than QB and TE.  Nonetheless, it would be a bad value to give up a lot of assets to trade up, only to assume even more risk than usual because, on top of adjusting to the NFL, he'd have to learn a new position. I think J. J. Watt would be one of the best picks if he makes it that far because he's a 3-down defensive end who wouldn't require substitutions that give away what you're trying to defend.  Run-stopping and pocket-pushing from the same guy. If there's a 3-down OLB, he'd be good, although at this point I'd take a pass-rush specialist if he's THAT good at pass-rushing because they desperately need more pass rush.
    Posted by Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188[/QUOTE]

    The only point with the Tebow comparison is that you don't draft a guy that high and ask him to switch positions.  A lot of people last year wanted to draft Tebow with a high pick and use him at another position, WR or TE, with the occasional wildcat cameo, which makes zero sense.  With Prince, he's the 2nd rated CB.  Why would you draft him and switch his position?  Makes no sense. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    Square hole, round peg.  That's something you do later in rounds, not high in the draft.

    The idea is to coach up the player's best skills.

    I think in the Eugene Wilson case for the Pats, they liked him as a CB replacement option in that draft and then realized he'd be better suited as Safety as a rookie.

    I think these are rare examples.

    But, I would not go into a draft looking to take the natural fit/ability away from a legit superstar like Akwamura.

    It woud be doing him a disservice.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    agreed with both of you.

    trading up to switch him to safety is a bad idea
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    I'm all for NE upgrading the roster with the best possible talent and think this kid is one of a handful of kids that could come in and potentially impact from day one.  With that being said, I don't see a downside to moving up (which is what they'd likely have to do) for Amukamara and that's taking into account that DMC and Bodden would still be on the roster.

    A.  You're taking him as a CB, but the fact that he has the versatility to contribute at multiple positions (CB/Nickel/S etc.) in the secondary is a huge value, IMO. 

    B.  He gives them additional schematic versatility with the ability to play on an island in press man (which is what he did a lot in college with little to know safety help) or zone.  

    C.  Selecting Prince not only provides a potential impact defender on D, it also provides them with some roster flexibility.  Bodden is on the books for a good amount of money, selecting Prince may allow them to move on from him or if they decide to keep him, could move him to safety to replace BM short/long term. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    I don't disagree but I think there are major needs on the lines, which take a precedence over another CB or Safety early in the draft.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    In Response to Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety:
    [QUOTE]I'm all for NE upgrading the roster with the best possible talent and think this kid is one of a handful of kids that could come in and potentially impact from day one.  With that being said, I don't see a downside to moving up (which is what they'd likely have to do) for Amukamara and that's taking into account that DMC and Bodden would still be on the roster. A.  You're taking him as a CB, but the fact that he has the versatility to contribute at multiple positions (CB/Nickel/S etc.) in the secondary is a huge value, IMO.  B.  He gives them additional schematic versatility with the ability to play on an island in press man (which is what he did a lot in college with little to know safety help) or zone.   C.  Selecting Prince not only provides a potential impact defender on D, it also provides them with some roster flexibility.  Bodden is on the books for a good amount of money, selecting Prince may allow them to move on from him or if they decide to keep him, could move him to safety to replace BM short/long term. 
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    I can buy what you're saying, but the Pats certainly have other needs.  And the ammo it would take to move up to get the guy isn't worth it in my opinion based on those other needs. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    It is a passing league and I like the idea of Bodden the safety more than I like the unreliable and inconsistent Merriweather, but they need an outside linebacker like WHOA, and a 3-down defensive end wouldn't hurt either since they ran away from Wilfork and Gerard Warren right at the sub-package DE last season.

    Akumura would be a luxury pick to be taken only if he fell into the Patriots' laps at #17.  I wouldn't go up and get him.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    Luxury pick is exactly right.  It would give them a lot of flexibility in the defensive backfield at the expense of other needs (DE/OLB, pass rush from either/both) that just about everyone universally agrees is the biggest need.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    I acknowledge that OLB is probably the biggest need for this team as well, problem is, BB has shown no willingness to draft a DE/OLB convert in Rd 1, (likely due to the risk involved with the positional switch), which is where the better talent will be, there's some decent depth at the position in this class, so they may not address it until the middle of Rd 2 (a potential trade up/back spot) through Rd 4.

    The secondary presents just as much uncertainty, IMO as the DL with DMC and Chung as the only two players guaranteed to be on the roster over the next year or two.  BM could be on the outs (mostly due to inconsistent play), Sanders is nice depth, but can be upgraded, both Butler and Wilhite have struggled and Aarington probably isn't a guy that you want seeing the field in anything more than a nickle or dime package, IMO.

    As for the DL, you have Ty Warren, Ron Brace and Mike Wright back in the mix this year, so I'm not 100% sold on the idea that a DE is must have type player. Instead, I'm still looking for them to grab the best talent available and if they feel a particular player is worth moving up for (Amukamara, Watt, Jordan) around the top 10 (something else they haven't done) then by all means, make the move.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    Warren, Wright and Brace all are injury prone, though. That's my only contention.

    And you add in need for high end performers at DE and OLB, and I just don't get the premise here.

    I do agree a CB can change how teams play, however, McCourty is that good, in my opinion. If you come in as a rookie and look that good, and make a Pro Bowl, outplaying the supposed "best" CB in the NFL (Revis), I'd say you hit a homerun with a future shut down CB.

    You could argue Bodden is injury prone, which supports a CB move like Akamura, but I think his injury last year was really more of a freak injury.

    Personally, I think Bodden is All Pro caliber with some semblance of a pass rush.

    He'll probably get more balls in his direction this year, but if you are a QB, wouldn't you think twice with McCourty and Bodden at the corners?

    Both have good range, are physical, can tackle, have good athleticism, and are high IQ players.

    I get the idea for having a lot of CBs, but with Bodden signed for another 3 years, BB can always go CB high in next year's draft to start to develop a successor.

    I'd rathe wait until a CBA is done and just grab a Chris Carr type to compete with Arrington, Butler and Wilhite.

    And as mentioned, forcing a conversion player in a lower need spot in Round 1, seems like a faulty concept to me.

    If Safety is the key fear, which again, I don't see it as an issue when you have literally 6 or 7 options, where just 3 or 4 need to be ready to go, then just go Safety in the mid rounds of the draft.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    The Pats have some nice depth on the D-line in Warren, Brace, Wright, Stroud, et al.  They lack a star performer at either of the DE positions.  This draft has nothing if not some potentially pretty good players at the DE position (again, according to the "experts", of which I am not one).  This draft represents a chance to upgrade the DE position at worst or to get a Seymour-like player at best.  DE makes all the sense in the world, they need an upgrade and to get younger there. 

    I tend to agree with those who say that there is not an OLB worth taking at 17, but that there are a number worth considering at 28 or 33 assuming they make it that far (Kerrigan, Sheard, others).  We really have no idea how any of these guys project in the eyes of the Pats and if they grade out high enough even to be selected that high.  Is there a surefire 3-down guy at OLB in this draft?  Likely no, which is why the Pats may address the position in Rd. 2.   

    I consider most of the posters here to be pretty knowlegeable.  Seems most agree that the OL and DL need some attention.  I just can't see them making any luxury picks given those needs, and I just don't think the secondary is the place where the Pats should use their ammo this year. 

    Just my opinion.  You guys make valid points why it could very well go in another direction.      
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    I actually liked both Kiper and McShay's most recent Pats mocks

    They go after DB in the mid rounds with the CB from Clemson:

    Mel Kiper's selections (Insider content)
    17. DE Cameron Jordan (California)
    28. OLB Justin Houston (Georgia)
    33. G Danny Watkins (Baylor)
    60. RB Daniel Thomas (Kansas State)
    74. WR Jonathan Baldwin (Pittsburgh)
    92. DB Marcus Gilchrist (Clemson)

    Todd McShay's selections (Insider content)
    17. DE J.J. Watt (Wisconsin)
    28. RB Mark Ingram (Alabama)
    33. OL Clint Boling (Georgia)
    60. OL James Carpenter (Alabama)*
    74. OLB/DE Jabaal Sheard (Pittsburgh)
    92. DB Marcus Gilchrist (Clemson)

    * Due to a loading error, the mock draft initially posted RB Daniel Thomas (Kansas State) as the choice
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Prince Amukamara as a safety

    unless bb schemes up plays where the CB or S goes after the QB a lot, this idea does not really excite me.

    also, if you want a big and quick CB to covert into S, does it really have to be one who's a top 10 pick? can't you find a cb down in the 3rd or 4th who may not be as quick or talented as prince as a CB, but is a good CB who could excel as a S?

    where does dowling go? could he be that guy?
     
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