Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    You're making our case for us...


    Fitzgerald, Johnson, C. Johnson, Nelson, Nicks, Cruz, J. Jones, A.J. Green, V. Jackson, Smith, Boldin, Crabtree, Moss, (Gronk) and a host of other non-5'9 WRs would've made that catch...effortlessly. 

     

    That's why you don't build your offense around a 5'9 WR. 




    Hmm, I guess Deion Branch and Troy Brown, are both over 6 feet tall. 

    For the slot 5'9" to 5'11" is perfect.  Of course you would like your receivers who go deeper to be taller but Welker's position isn't designed for that.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

     

    You're making our case for us...


    Fitzgerald, Johnson, C. Johnson, Nelson, Nicks, Cruz, J. Jones, A.J. Green, V. Jackson, Smith, Boldin, Crabtree, Moss, (Gronk) and a host of other non-5'9 WRs would've made that catch...effortlessly. 

     

    That's why you don't build your offense around a 5'9 WR. 

     




     

    Hmm, I guess Deion Branch and Troy Brown, are both over 6 feet tall. 

    For the slot 5'9" to 5'11" is perfect.  Of course you would like your receivers who go deeper to be taller but Welker's position isn't designed for that.



    Depends on the design of the offense. Victor Cruz plays the slot for the GMen and he goes deep a lot. Same thing with Cobb for the Packers.

     

    So there are slot receivers that go deep...Pats would just have to change their offensive philosophy.

     

    If not for the fact that he always gets hurt, Amendola would be perfect. He can run a lot of intermediate routes and is a decent deep threat.

     

    His injury history is a legitimate concern though

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

     

    You're making our case for us...


    Fitzgerald, Johnson, C. Johnson, Nelson, Nicks, Cruz, J. Jones, A.J. Green, V. Jackson, Smith, Boldin, Crabtree, Moss, (Gronk) and a host of other non-5'9 WRs would've made that catch...effortlessly. 

     

    That's why you don't build your offense around a 5'9 WR. 

     




     

    Hmm, I guess Deion Branch and Troy Brown, are both over 6 feet tall. 

    For the slot 5'9" to 5'11" is perfect.  Of course you would like your receivers who go deeper to be taller but Welker's position isn't designed for that.



    If you look closely, you'd notice I had Victor Cruz and Anquain Bolden on that list. Both guys play in the slot and both guys go deep. They're both over 5'11 and they're both freaks when it comes to jumping and making athletic catches. 

     

    Both would've made that catch...effortlessly.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    It's time to stop using the lame Welker dropped the ball and lost the Super Bowl excuse to not sign Welker to a new contract.

    Lately when someone post that the Patriots shouldn't sign Welker because he dropped that perfectly thrown, right on target pass from my man TFB to lose the Super Bowl, I have asked the following very simple yet ignored question...

    Please describe the very next play and nobody has done it.  Why?  They don't remember? They just want to blame Welker because he is seeking a well deserved and fair contract from the Patriots for once.  Well let me take a moment and explain.. after all, the Brady to Welker play was only 2nd down.  So what happend next......

    3rd down and 11, Patriots at the Giants 44 yard line, needing to get to the 33 yard line for the first down.  Brady takes the snap under center, Woodhead behind him.  The ball is snapped, TFB fakes the handoff to Woody, drops back, has all day to pass and finally throws the ball to an open Branch who is cutting accross the middle of the field at the 25 yard line.  The pass is a bit behind Branch yet branch gets his hands on the ball and drops it just as a defender hits him.  

    During the replay Chris Collinsworth says "It's a poor throw by Tom Brady, really Branch could have helped him by slowing down in the middle of the field, there's space in there".  Then says " I think Michael Boley scared Brady off of throwing that thing a head of Branch, and Branch really should have seen that and settled in the hole and made that an easier throw".

    So you tell me, why is all the blame on Welker for losing the Super Bowl when the very next play they had another chance but a poor route by Branch and a poor throw by Brady along with Branch dropping the pass, causing a 4th down and punting the ball back to the Giants?  Why is the blame on Welker?  Why not Brady for two poorly thrown balls in back to back plays or Branch for running a poor route and dropping the ball?   Please explain why the blame all goes on Welker?



    medicore throw-tough but catchable drop-wasn't reason for loss

    welker = buckner and just as ridiculous

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

    In response to garytx's comment:

     

    The reason people remember is because it's a play that should have worked.  A wide open Welker and if he can get his hands on it it's over.  The faithful were let down. 

    Let there be no mistake.  This does effect the contract talks.  You make those two catches and you name your price.  But he dropped both getting labeled a choke.  Fair or unfair it doesn't matter because if you're going to pay big money those, especially those catches have to be made.

     



    Not true. Deion Branch played back to back great Super Bowls and he certainly couldn't name his prime. He was also supposedly entering his prime too.

     

    A play here or there isn't going to make that huge a difference in contract talks. Hern has had some bad drops and he still got a big contract.

    Pats have a price on their players, they aren't going to change that because of a play or 2. Welker, whether he made those plays or not, will still be a 32 year old WR next season and someone who has taken a ton of hits.



    everybody knows if you wanna get paid u don't play for the pats

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

    everybody knows if you wanna get paid u don't play for the pats


    Tom Brady's contract made him the NFL's highest-paid player.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=5552561

    Vince Wilfork's contract made him the NFL's highest-paid nose tackle.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=4970238

    Logan Mankins' contract made him the NFL's highest-paid interior offensive lineman
    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4699733/logan-mankins-contract-details

    Jerod Mayo's contract made him the first player in the NFL that has guaranteed money in 2015.
    http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/7362239/new-england-patriots-sign-jerod-mayo-5-year-extension-source-says

    Rob Gronkowski's deal was the richest contract for a tight end in NFL history.
    http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/8025822/new-england-patriots-rob-gronkowski-agree-6-year-53-million-extension

    You were saying?

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    I'll say this - if he makes that catch I think we win that game, and that game just happened to be the Super Bowl. And if we win that Super Bowl, all this spygate stuff could be put to rest. I don't know what the legacy of this team would of been had we won that elusive 4th super bowl (because there has been many player changes throughout all of them), but I magine it would of put us as the greatest dynasty in football.

    Having said that, Welker I'm sure made big plays for us in that game and we never would of gotten to the Super Bowl without him. He made big plays for us this year too, but that drop in that Raven's game was inexcusable. And although you can't go so far to say that we would of won this game with him making that catch...it sure hurt. I think he had four drops in two playoff games this year and they all should of easily gone for first downs.

    I think the guy is a good player...a real good player.  I also think he is replaceable.  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from AcheNot. Show AcheNot's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    180 degrees is half a turn. It isnt as if Welker had to perform a triple Salchow/double toe loop in order to get his hands on the ball

    The only reason why the drop is even defended is because it was Welker's drop. If Ochocinco dropped the ball, nobody here would have/would be defending it. In that situation though, I bet Chad would have held on

    PS The drop was a quintessential drive killer. The Pats had a chance to convert on third down, but the drive was already dead at that point. Welker killed it

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to AcheNot's comment:


    PS The drop was a quintessential drive killer. The Pats had a chance to convert on third down, but the drive was already dead at that point. Welker killed it



    I doubt great players and great teams think like this, especially in their biggest game.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    "2 poorly thrown passes back to back and Branch drops the ball yet it's all Welkers fault.  "

    It's not all Welker's fault by any means, but if you think this doesn't affect contract negotiation with Welker you are out of your mind. The Patriots are conscious of a ticking clock with Brady and while Welker deserves to get paid, and hopefully will, he's not in the position to name his price as he would have if he had been able to bring in both of those balls. That's how it goes, and you can't put it to rest because it is what it is. I don't blame Wes for either loss but in a performance business everything is factored in to contract talks, you may wish it wasn't so but it is.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from AcheNot. Show AcheNot's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

     



    I doubt great players and great teams think like this, especially in their biggest game.

     



    Well, it's like a sack, or a holding penalty that stalls a drive out, only worse

    I dont care how toughminded a team is or how talented its players are, the odds of overcoming the emotional letdown of a monumental drop like that and then converting on third and 11 are very long   


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    In response to redsoxfan94's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    You can't have your cake and eat it too.

     

    If you are happy with how well Brady takes care of the ball you have to accept the reasons this is so. Brady will pass exactly as he did to Branch and Welker in those circumstances in order to minimize the INT risk yet give his guy a chance to make the play. He does the exact same thing on many of his low throws.

    Complain about a "bad pass" all you like, but the passes are usually exactly where they are for a reason. And he isn't the GOAT for no reason.

     



    so he intentionally threw the ball 7-8 feet in the air to a wide open receiver that is 5ft9?
    yea that makes alot of sense...

     

     

     

    You're making our case for us...


    Fitzgerald, Johnson, C. Johnson, Nelson, Nicks, Cruz, J. Jones, A.J. Green, V. Jackson, Smith, Boldin, Crabtree, Moss, (Gronk) and a host of other non-5'9 WRs would've made that catch...effortlessly. 

     

    That's why you don't build your offense around a 5'9 WR. 



    bingo!!!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:

    "2 poorly thrown passes back to back and Branch drops the ball yet it's all Welkers fault.  "

    It's not all Welker's fault by any means, but if you think this doesn't affect contract negotiation with Welker you are out of your mind. The Patriots are conscious of a ticking clock with Brady and while Welker deserves to get paid, and hopefully will, he's not in the position to name his price as he would have if he had been able to bring in both of those balls. That's how it goes, and you can't put it to rest because it is what it is. I don't blame Wes for either loss but in a performance business everything is factored in to contract talks, you may wish it wasn't so but it is.




    I think his body of work, year in and year out, allows him to name a pretty hefty price.  The thing is, if the Patriots don't think so I am pretty sure there are a few other teams who will pay him in the area of what he deserves if he so chooses to leave.  Do the Patriots take that chance thinking they can plug someone in and help the team?  We shall see, TFB was pretty much telling the Patriots after the season that they better re-sign him.

    This is what TFB said is on SI.com after the Ravens game..

    "He’s [Welker] just a phenomenal player, and he’s been the heart and soul of what our team is all about. He’s been so selfless, and the way that he carries himself and commits himself to help our team win, it’s second-to-none"

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to digger0862's comment:

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

    everybody knows if you wanna get paid u don't play for the pats

     


    Tom Brady's contract made him the NFL's highest-paid player.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=5552561

    Vince Wilfork's contract made him the NFL's highest-paid nose tackle.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=4970238

    Logan Mankins' contract made him the NFL's highest-paid interior offensive lineman
    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4699733/logan-mankins-contract-details

    Jerod Mayo's contract made him the first player in the NFL that has guaranteed money in 2015.
    http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/7362239/new-england-patriots-sign-jerod-mayo-5-year-extension-source-says

    Rob Gronkowski's deal was the richest contract for a tight end in NFL history.
    http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/8025822/new-england-patriots-rob-gronkowski-agree-6-year-53-million-extension

    You were saying?

     



    i was saying pats are cheap...so they paid these 5 players, perhaps the top at their positions, means exactly what? that they pay free agents? or would be free agents? or don't lowball or franchise to avoid doing so?

    come on stop the cherry picking, I am not saying anything the pats dont have a reputation for

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to 49Patriots's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

     

    You're making our case for us...


    Fitzgerald, Johnson, C. Johnson, Nelson, Nicks, Cruz, J. Jones, A.J. Green, V. Jackson, Smith, Boldin, Crabtree, Moss, (Gronk) and a host of other non-5'9 WRs would've made that catch...effortlessly. 

     

    That's why you don't build your offense around a 5'9 WR. 

     




     

    Hmm, I guess Deion Branch and Troy Brown, are both over 6 feet tall. 

    For the slot 5'9" to 5'11" is perfect.  Of course you would like your receivers who go deeper to be taller but Welker's position isn't designed for that.

     



    If you look closely, you'd notice I had Victor Cruz and Anquain Bolden on that list. Both guys play in the slot and both guys go deep. They're both over 5'11 and they're both freaks when it comes to jumping and making athletic catches. 

     

     

    Both would've made that catch...effortlessly.



    effortlessly is absurd

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    You can't have your cake and eat it too.

     

    If you are happy with how well Brady takes care of the ball you have to accept the reasons this is so. Brady will pass exactly as he did to Branch and Welker in those circumstances in order to minimize the INT risk yet give his guy a chance to make the play. He does the exact same thing on many of his low throws.

    Complain about a "bad pass" all you like, but the passes are usually exactly where they are for a reason. And he isn't the GOAT for no reason.

     



    Sorry you lead a wide open guy.  You don't thro it behind him and expect him to make a difficult catch. 

    Had to edit this.  Damn auto predict

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

     

    You're making our case for us...


    Fitzgerald, Johnson, C. Johnson, Nelson, Nicks, Cruz, J. Jones, A.J. Green, V. Jackson, Smith, Boldin, Crabtree, Moss, (Gronk) and a host of other non-5'9 WRs would've made that catch...effortlessly. 

     

    That's why you don't build your offense around a 5'9 WR. 

     




     

    Hmm, I guess Deion Branch and Troy Brown, are both over 6 feet tall. 

    For the slot 5'9" to 5'11" is perfect.  Of course you would like your receivers who go deeper to be taller but Welker's position isn't designed for that.

     



    If you look closely, you'd notice I had Victor Cruz and Anquain Bolden on that list. Both guys play in the slot and both guys go deep. They're both over 5'11 and they're both freaks when it comes to jumping and making athletic catches. 

     

     

    Both would've made that catch...effortlessly.




    Really?  Effortlessly?  C'mon!  The same Cruz who dropped 11.6% of his passes in 2012? 

    Get over the drops argument.  in 2012 Welker dropped 7.6% of his passes, Hernandez dropped 13.7% of his passes, Lloyd dropped 8% of his passes and Gronk dropped 9% of his passes.  According to the stats Welker is the guy you can depend on the most.  So now the argument is Welker is too short and not athletic enough? 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    Pats lost the game... SB46 is now put to rest!




    Pretty much sums it up IMO.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

    i was saying pats are cheap...so they paid these 5 players, perhaps the top at their positions, means exactly what? that they pay free agents? or would be free agents? or don't lowball or franchise to avoid doing so?

    come on stop the cherry picking, I am not saying anything the pats dont have a reputation for


    Well, the reputation is unfounded. It's called building a team in the salary cap era. The cap doesn't allow you to pay everybody top dollar. It's how the Patriots stay competitive year after year. It's smart business.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    Apparently effective cap managment is considered 'cheap'.  As digger points out they spread the money around and are highly selective with respect to who gets the higher salaries. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    I like Welker, I hope honestly that he catches another three hundred passes before he retires, but I'm curious to see how people think he will do if he leaves here.

    To me he is not a guy that you can just send out there for a slant or a curl, and catch a lot of balls for you. In my opinion his success has come in his ability to read a coverage and make the right adjustment within his route or the play. I think in order for this to work he needs to be in the right scheme, with the right quaterback. Now I'm sure anyone that signs him will do anything it takes to make their rather large investment work, but is it any guarantee that their quaterback will be able to? I imagine an experienced QB will, or some of the elite one's, but I'm not sure about some of these marginal guys or young one's.

    If I'm Indy I'd sign this guy, I think Luck is smart enough to be on the same page with him. Reggie Wayne and Welker together would be hard to stop for a couple of years.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    I like Welker, I hope honestly that he catches another three hundred passes before he retires, but I'm curious to see how people think he will do if he leaves here.

     




    Depends how tanother team wants to use him, and who the QB is. If they use his talent like the like the Patriots, he should continue to rack up catches

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from AcheNot. Show AcheNot's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

    effortlessly is absurd


    Overstated maybe, but not absurd. A more graceful athlete makes the play rather easily after making a slight adjustment on the ball

    Welker is a lot of things (tough, resiliant, durable), but graceful is not one of them. He mistimed his leap on that play in my opinion, and CLANG! He dropped the ball

    PS I am not the type to say the Giants were lucky to win SB46. To me, they won fair and square. But you have to admit, on that play your team was the beneficiary of a little good fortune... 


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Putting the Welker dropped pass to lose the Super Bowl to rest!

    In response to AcheNot's comment:

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

    effortlessly is absurd



    Overstated maybe, but not absurd. A more graceful athlete makes the play rather easily after making a slight adjustment on the ball

    Welker is a lot of things (tough, resiliant, durable), but graceful is not one of them. He mistimed his leap on that play in my opinion, and CLANG! He dropped the ball

    PS I am not the type to say the Giants were lucky to win SB46. To me, they won fair and square. But you have to admit, on that play your team was the beneficiary of a little good fortune... 


     




    tuck rule, john kasey, billy cundiff...

     

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