Quarterbacks

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bingobilly. Show bingobilly's posts

    Quarterbacks

    I believe the carry two quarterbacks decision by the Patriots and for that matter any other team making the same decision is short-sighted.  Yes, I say this as a result of Tebow being cut however, my analysis is quite correct.  The quarterback is on the field for a probable major portion of the game and even more important is he is extremely venerable to injury.

    Unlike most other player positions, the quarterback position is not a substitute position.  In my opinion, the best of all worlds would be to have a third quarterback who can perform (at some level) as quarterback and also perform at one or more other positions like the utility player in baseball.  

    The Patriots could have had that situation in Tebow with proper guidance having been given.  There is a lot more here than meets the eye with the Tebow situation.  Some things just do not make sense.  Did the Patriots really think they could convert Tebow into an NFL type quarterback in a couple of weeks?  Of course not!  What was the real reason he was brought in?  I just don't believe it was done as a favor - that's crap!

     

    Why was Tebow not cut until the final hour?  I believe they intended to keep him but something else did not work out as they had planned.  I also believe that it is quite probable the Patriots and Tebow worked out a "standby contract" and at some point you very well might see him on the roster.  Another thread mentioned the possibility of trading Mallett.  Perhaps, they had a deal for Mallett worked out and it fell through...  Perhaps another deal is in the future...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    In response to bingobilly's comment:

    Why was Tebow not cut until the final hour?  I believe they intended to keep him but something else did not work out as they had planned.  I also believe that it is quite probable the Patriots and Tebow worked out a "standby contract" and at some point you very well might see him on the roster.  Another thread mentioned the possibility of trading Mallett.  Perhaps, they had a deal for Mallett worked out and it fell through...  Perhaps another deal is in the future...



    I have read that after week one contracts are not guaranteed. Tebow's vet minumum would have been dead money if he wasn't cut now rather than later. Teams play games like this with the roster all the time at this juncture.

    I wouldn't be surprised if he is back. I was quite surprised he was cut and suspect it has to do with $$$ and/or specific position requirements out of the gate.

    Got to save money some way now that BB screwed up the a-wilson thing.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    With the practice squad the teams that only keep two QBs typically stash a third QB on the PS. This makes a lot of sense as you don't waste a roster spot on someone you hope will never play, but you have them available all week to work with and develop, and in the situation where you actually need them, you can move them to the roster and cut someone else.

    Problem with Tebow is that he is 4 years in and still needs that development work but has used up all his elegibility. I agree that he may be back after the first week or should the unthinkable happen. Keeping him around till the end may well have kept him away from Buffalo and or GB who were depserate enough to sign Young and Leinhart. Buffalo may still take a look at him given their desperation and the fact that they are already building around a running QB.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    I have never heard 1nfl analyst that said he could throw in the nfl

    why the Pats signed him i have no idea but

    they were not going to carry a 3rd Qb this year

    it did give them looks at a running Qb

    you need at least 3qbs in training camp

    he wasn't cut until the last pre season game, 

    That would have made TB the bu Qb,

    and I don't think BB is as s clueless as Rex

    i doubt he is back coz they would have to give up BBs offense

    I wish they had gotten somebody like Phil Simms kid at least he has an nfl arm for the PS

    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to bingobilly's comment:

     

     

     

    I believe the carry two quarterbacks decision by the Patriots and for that matter any other team making the same decision is short-sighted.  Yes, I say this as a result of Tebow being cut however, my analysis is quite correct.  The quarterback is on the field for a probable major portion of the game and even more important is he is extremely venerable to injury.

    Unlike most other player positions, the quarterback position is not a substitute position.  In my opinion, the best of all worlds would be to have a third quarterback who can perform (at some level) as quarterback and also perform at one or more other positions like the utility player in baseball.  

    The Patriots could have had that situation in Tebow with proper guidance having been given.  There is a lot more here than meets the eye with the Tebow situation.  Some things just do not make sense.  Did the Patriots really think they could convert Tebow into an NFL type quarterback in a couple of weeks?  Of course not!  What was the real reason he was brought in?  I just don't believe it was done as a favor - that's crap!

     

    Why was Tebow not cut until the final hour?  I believe they intended to keep him but something else did not work out as they had planned.  I also believe that it is quite probable the Patriots and Tebow worked out a "standby contract" and at some point you very well might see him on the roster.  Another thread mentioned the possibility of trading Mallett.  Perhaps, they had a deal for Mallett worked out and it fell through...  Perhaps another deal is in the future...

     

     




     

     

    Respect for Tebow.   If they cut him after the firts rd of cuts, it makes it look like he was so bad he's in the first rd of cuts.

    Nice gesture by BB,

     

     



    New day, new things being made up by dumbkoff. SOS

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to bingobilly's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I believe the carry two quarterbacks decision by the Patriots and for that matter any other team making the same decision is short-sighted.  Yes, I say this as a result of Tebow being cut however, my analysis is quite correct.  The quarterback is on the field for a probable major portion of the game and even more important is he is extremely venerable to injury.

    Unlike most other player positions, the quarterback position is not a substitute position.  In my opinion, the best of all worlds would be to have a third quarterback who can perform (at some level) as quarterback and also perform at one or more other positions like the utility player in baseball.  

    The Patriots could have had that situation in Tebow with proper guidance having been given.  There is a lot more here than meets the eye with the Tebow situation.  Some things just do not make sense.  Did the Patriots really think they could convert Tebow into an NFL type quarterback in a couple of weeks?  Of course not!  What was the real reason he was brought in?  I just don't believe it was done as a favor - that's crap!

     

    Why was Tebow not cut until the final hour?  I believe they intended to keep him but something else did not work out as they had planned.  I also believe that it is quite probable the Patriots and Tebow worked out a "standby contract" and at some point you very well might see him on the roster.  Another thread mentioned the possibility of trading Mallett.  Perhaps, they had a deal for Mallett worked out and it fell through...  Perhaps another deal is in the future...

     




     

    Respect for Tebow.   If they cut him after the firts rd of cuts, it makes it look like he was so bad he's in the first rd of cuts.

    Nice gesture by BB, but Tebow's NFL career is over. He's delusional. Maybe a nice little CFL career, but that's it.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    They were contemplating playing TB or not, they decided against it and needed a 3rd QB or risk losing  Mallet to an injury by playing him all game.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    Nice gesture by BB, but Tebow's NFL career is over. He's delusional. Maybe a nice little CFL career, but that's it.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He doesn't throw well enough (or fast enough) to be a CFL starting QB.  Maybe could be a short yardage specialist who comes in on three or four plays a game, but that's it.  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks


    If he could have done something valuable like TE or HBack I would agree, but apparently they didn't see that in him.  I was always a bit surprised he wasn't tried at those positions because his athletic ability would seem to show he could do it.  He certainly worked the Patriots over with his feet in Denver the first game, and he didn't bring Florida to National Champions for no reason.

     

    I can only assume BB thought of the same but didn't think he could be that utility player.  And his value as a QB only wasn't high enough.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


    If he could have done something valuable like TE or HBack I would agree, but apparently they didn't see that in him.  I was always a bit surprised he wasn't tried at those positions because his athletic ability would seem to show he could do it.  He certainly worked the Patriots over with his feet in Denver the first game, and he didn't bring Florida to National Champions for no reason.

     

    I can only assume BB thought of the same but didn't think he could be that utility player.  And his value as a QB only wasn't high enough.

     



    Same here. He's a good athlete, so if he worked at blocking and catching, it might be ok for a spot player.

     

    But, he's one of the those bible thumping, delusional right wing nut jobs, so he doesn't want to adjust and change.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Are you projecting some bizarre stereotype onto Tebow or you have some information that Tebow wouldn't play another position.  Highly doubt Tebow would have ever walked through that door telling BB what he would and wouldn't be doing.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    Nice gesture by BB, but Tebow's NFL career is over. He's delusional. Maybe a nice little CFL career, but that's it.

     

     



    He doesn't throw well enough (or fast enough) to be a CFL starting QB.  Maybe could be a short yardage specialist who comes in on three or four plays a game, but that's it.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Isn't the field wider?  More room to run.  He's been poo-pooing the idea but that's his last chance.

    I have no idea why his slow arching motion wouldn't be a better option in the CFL. The CFL is not "faster" than the NFL, prolate.

    Wider field, lesser talent, etc.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You have to throw a lot and make fast decisions, especially with all the motion pre snap. Typical completion rates are 60 percent and most QBs throw 35 or 40 times a game.  They are mostly short passes, but it's quick.  Tebow would be a disaster in that kind of offense. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     


    If he could have done something valuable like TE or HBack I would agree, but apparently they didn't see that in him.  I was always a bit surprised he wasn't tried at those positions because his athletic ability would seem to show he could do it.  He certainly worked the Patriots over with his feet in Denver the first game, and he didn't bring Florida to National Champions for no reason.

     

    I can only assume BB thought of the same but didn't think he could be that utility player.  And his value as a QB only wasn't high enough.

     

     

     



    Same here. He's a good athlete, so if he worked at blocking and catching, it might be ok for a spot player.

     

     

     

    But, he's one of the those bible thumping, delusional right wing nut jobs, so he doesn't want to adjust and change.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Are you projecting some bizarre stereotype onto Tebow or you have some information that Tebow wouldn't play another position.  Highly doubt Tebow would have ever walked through that door telling BB what he would and wouldn't be doing.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I have no idea what you are talking about other than you not knowing Tebow is wildly religious, was home schooled and is no Tweeting he will pray for you and me as he strives to become an NFL QB 4 years into his career.  It's the ultimate delusion.

     

    I think Tebow might have a crack as a specialist as an HBack and a 3rd QB if he was willing to accept that, but he isn't. He thinks he is an NFL starter right now.

    He's delusional. He's sick.

    Whoever his best friend is, needs to sit him down and give him some straight talk.   Call all CFL teams and see if he can tryout.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    So you had no justification for saying he refused to play other positions other than "He's delusional" Which you back up with evidence of him praying and trying to be a NFL QB.  Your statement says far more about your prejudice than his delusions.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


    If he could have done something valuable like TE or HBack I would agree, but apparently they didn't see that in him.  I was always a bit surprised he wasn't tried at those positions because his athletic ability would seem to show he could do it.  He certainly worked the Patriots over with his feet in Denver the first game, and he didn't bring Florida to National Champions for no reason.

     

    I can only assume BB thought of the same but didn't think he could be that utility player.  And his value as a QB only wasn't high enough.

     



    Same here. He's a good athlete, so if he worked at blocking and catching, it might be ok for a spot player.

     

    But, he's one of the those bible thumping, delusional right wing nut jobs, so he doesn't want to adjust and change.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    As opposed to those left wing nut jobs whose EQs overwhelm their IQs ? Lol

    He has seen his last days in the  nfl.  Hes made a ton of money , hes had a ton of college success and its only worth it to him to play Qb. bb needed a camp body for Qb and needed that thru the last game. if some miracle happened and he had learned how to pass, he might have gotten a shot somewhere. But the odds were high and long. I never really believed had the skills for another position. Learning one at the nfl level would have been very difficult.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    He was excellent when released. And not part of this discussion, Zoltan was magnanimous

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    Nice gesture by BB, but Tebow's NFL career is over. He's delusional. Maybe a nice little CFL career, but that's it.

     

     

     

     



    He doesn't throw well enough (or fast enough) to be a CFL starting QB.  Maybe could be a short yardage specialist who comes in on three or four plays a game, but that's it.  

     

     

     

     

     



    Isn't the field wider?  More room to run.  He's been poo-pooing the idea but that's his last chance.

     

     

    I have no idea why his slow arching motion wouldn't be a better option in the CFL. The CFL is not "faster" than the NFL, prolate.

    Wider field, lesser talent, etc.

     

     



    You have to throw a lot and make fast decisions, especially with all the motion pre snap. Typical completion rates are 60 percent and most QBs throw 35 or 40 times a game.  They are mostly short passes, but it's quick.  Tebow would be a disaster in that kind of offense. 

     



    Dude, the completion rates are higher because the field is wider and the talent is less than the NFL.

    You seem to be pretending the CFL is on par with the quality of the NFL.

    "Motion pre snap"?  LMAO

    Why are you pretending the CFL is more complex than the NFL? JUst stop.  

    Did they shrink the width of the field recently? I don't watch the league, so I don't know, but your analysis is weird.

    Every analyst out there is suggesting Tebow go to the CFL. I suggested it 2 years ago for the guy.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not saying the CFL is more complex than the NFL.  That's just the voices in your head echoing around.  

    But I do watch the CFL regularly.  Been to two live games in the past three weeks.  You admit you don't watch the games.  So tell me how did you suddenly become an expert on something you don't even watch?

    Tebow may get a chance because the Alouettes who own his rights have some QB problems right now with their starter hurt.  But Tebow would have to throw much better to have success up here.  

    Moon: CFL not option for Tim Tebow Updated: May 2, 2013, 1:58 PM ET ESPN.com news services

    Hall of Famer Warren Moon said in a radio interview Wednesday that the Canadian Football League is not a viable option for Tim Tebow to prove he can play quarterback, as the former Heisman Trophy winner doesn't throw the ball well enough to play in the league.

     

    [+] EnlargeWarren Moon Courtesy of the Canadian Football Hall of Fame and Museum Warren Moon, who led the CFL's Edmonton Eskimos to five consecutive Grey Cup titles, doesn't believe the league is a viable option for Tim Tebow.

     

    "You have to be able to throw the ball up there, if anything. They throw the ball a lot. It's only three downs, so the passing game is much more important up there, and there's a lot more field to cover," Moon said in an interview with KILT-AM in Houston.

    "If you can't throw the football, it doesn't matter where you play quarterback," he said. "You have to be able to throw it. That's his biggest problem, just being able to complete passes, be an accurate passer. I think he's a really good athlete playing the position, but I don't think that's enough sometimes."

    Tebow cleared waivers on Tuesday after being released by the New York Jets. The Montreal Alouettes, who own his CFL rights, have said they would welcome Tebow to the league -- provided he's willing to compete for a job as a backup quarterback.

    The CFL has been mentioned as a possible option for Tebow after quarterbacks like Moon, Doug Flutie and Jeff Garcia played the position in Canada and then went on to play in the NFL.

    Moon said the difference between Tebow and him and Flutie is, "We knew how to throw the ball.

     

    Walker on Tebow, CFL

    WalkerIt's hard to imagine Tim Tebow thriving in the CFL, where he likely would be asked to throw at least 40 passes per game, James Walker writes. Blog

     

    "We were very good passers. We didn't have to go up there to change our throwing motion. we didn't have to go up there to try and become more accurate," Moon said. "We just needed to get to the opportunity. Doug's was because of his height; mine was because of my color. So we went up there and proved ourselves."

    Moon played six seasons in the CFL after going undrafted out of Washington in 1978, leading his Edmonton Eskimos to five consecutive Grey Cup titles, throwing for 21,228 yards with 144 touchdowns and 77 interceptions. In 17 NFL seasons, he threw for 49,325 yards, 291 touchdowns and 233 interceptions. He was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2006.

    Moon said he thinks that if Tebow wants to continue playing in the NFL, he'll have to switch to another position. Moon told ESPN Radio's "The Herd with Colin Cowherd" on Monday, "I don't think it's going to happen at the quarterback position for him, at least not in the National Football League. You have to be able to throw the football before everything else happens.

     

    You have to be able to throw it. That's his biggest problem, just being able to complete passes, be an accurate passer. I think he's a really good athlete playing the position, but I don't think that's enough sometimes.

    -- Warren Moon, on Tim Tebow

     

    "It's nice to be able to run the football in those read-keep options, but even the guys that are in the league right now, the Russell Wilsons, the RG IIIs … Colin Kaepernick, they can throw the football from the pocket with accuracy, and that just adds another element to their game. Tim doesn't have that pocket-passing ability to go with that other element that he has."

    In Montreal, Anthony Calvillo is entrenched as Montreal's quarterback. Calvillo, 40, is entering his 20th CFL season and assesses his career on a year-to-year basis. That would leave Tebow to contend with former Boston College star Quinton Porter, a five-year CFL veteran, for the No. 2 spot.

    "If Tim Tebow wants to come to Canada, we'd definitely welcome him," general manager Jim Popp said. "That's why we have him on our [negotiating] list, and we'd take a look at him and see if he can play in Canada, but it would obviously be competing for a backup job."

    Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

     

     

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    ^^I don't get how that counters what I am saying.  Warren Moon could play in the CFL or NFL.

    The CFL is not on the same level as the NFL. With a wider field up there, more opps for Tebow to move in space.

    Pretty simple.

    You won't get any pushback from me on Tebow's poor mechanics or accuracy, but that does not counter my premise at all.

    A wider field and lesser competition each help someone like Tebow.

    I would be racing to Canada if I were him.



    All I said is I don't think he's good enough to start in the CFL.  So after all that arguing with me, you agreed all along?  Next time try "I agree."

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    ^^I don't get how that counters what I am saying.  Warren Moon could play in the CFL or NFL.

    The CFL is not on the same level as the NFL. With a wider field up there, more opps for Tebow to move in space.

    Pretty simple.

    You won't get any pushback from me on Tebow's poor mechanics or accuracy, but that does not counter my premise at all.

    A wider field and lesser competition each help someone like Tebow.

    I would be racing to Canada if I were him.

     

     



    All I said is I don't think he's good enough to start in the CFL.  So after all that arguing with me, you agreed all along?  Next time try "I agree."

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Have you been smoking crystal meth? Your claim was the CFL was faster than the NFL, hence his QB skills would be worse than in the NFL.

     

    I felt it was preposterous to claim the CFL is a superior league with faster and superior players.

    I also referenced the wider CFL field for run first Timmy.

    You balked at all all of my points and now are in some desperation spin mode out of embarassment, apparently.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Ummm... he didn't say any of that, Angel dust fairy.

    What's embarassment?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    Yes, he did. He claimed the CFL has such super completion percentages that the QB is vital in the CFL and a superior QB league than the NFL.

    Otherwise, why reference the average QB percentage of QBs in the inferior CFL?

    It would lead one to believe he thinks the CFL is the equivalent to the NFL by his original comments.




    Undecided  OMG, delusional

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from APpats22. Show APpats22's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    Rusty you're overthinking his statement.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from stillgridlocked. Show stillgridlocked's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    Wow, a Tebow thread disguised as 'Quarterbanks'.

    He's cleared waivers and no one has picked him up.  Thats as damning as it gets. He sucks.

    Who thinks this is a conspiracy because the NFL is secretly owned by the devil?

     

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    Tebow would be a nightmare in the CFL. There aren't as many checks and reads, but to be in the CFL you have to be able to throw and have a quick release. It's a throwing league.

    I would go for the Rugby offer that was given to him. You can make a decent career of that. And he really does have a Rugby build/athleticism/intelligence (lack thereof).  

     

     
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    Since when has BB "made a nice gesture" when it has come to the roster? BB and Josh thought there was a chance to make something of TT. They put in some specific TT plays in the hope it would work. 

    There should have been a 4th option like Simms (lets use him as the example as he was mentioned earlier in this thread) that has an NFL arm and can sit on he PS and maybe develop. With TB's age and Mallett's impending free agency, I would have thought this would have been an offseason priority

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    Yes, he did. He claimed the CFL has such super completion percentages that the QB is vital in the CFL and a superior QB league than the NFL.

    Otherwise, why reference the average QB percentage of QBs in the inferior CFL?

    It would lead one to believe he thinks the CFL is the equivalent to the NFL by his original comments.



    Rusty, you're really trying hard to be wrong on everything you say this week.  Your doing really well at it too. It's quite an accomplishement really.  

    Read Warren Moon's article again.  Maybe you'll learn something.  Then again, maybe you don't want to learn anything.  Not many people can be as good at you at being wrong all the time . . .

    It's a simple fact that starting QBs in the CFL have to be able to complete a high percentage of their passes.  You already said you don't watch the CFL or follow it, so why are you even arguing?  You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.  

    I am not and never have claimed the CFL game is"equivalent to" the NFL game.  They are very different games, both because of rule differences and because of quality of talent as well as type of talent given the different style of play.  But CFL QBs have to be good at making quick decisions and have to be able to complete a lot of passes.  They don't need the same arms or accuracy generally as NFL QBs.  The spaces aren't as tight, but they need to be good decision makers.

     

    Read these excerpts  from a Toronto Sun article on why good American college QBs frequently fail in the CFL  . .  

    But, notes former CFL quarterback and CFL hall of famer Matt Dunigan in pithy grace: "There's a bunch of guys who roll up here with all kinds of athletic ability and they just (dirty) the bed."

    The reasons are many and varied:

    One reason many college or NFL players never find success and glory in the CFL is because they can't play outside a mould.

    They were "system quarterbacks" in college, says Jim Barker, who spent the past five seasons scouting U.S. colleges for the Calgary Stampeders before signing on as head coach in 2010 to rebuild the Argonauts.

    "In college, and sometimes in the NFL too, they build systems that suit the quarterbacks. Here we usually don't. We ask quarterbacks to adapt to the system," says Barker, "and at the pro level, a quarterback needs to be in a system that suits his abilities. When I got Tommy Maddox (in Los Angeles when they won the XFL championship) he had played for years in Dan Reeves' (Denver) offence which didn't suit what he does - play action, deep drop. His whole deal is getting the ball out of his hand quickly. That's when he's most effective. When he went on to Pittsburgh in the NFL and they put him in that situation, he flourished."

    . . .

    "That's the thing. They could get away with just being great athletes in college when they had the system built around them. The perfect example would be (Crouch)," says Masotti. "They ran the option, some designated pass plays, but when players come up here the defences and offences are more sophisticated and there's one less down to get it done ... "

    Crouch survived less than two seasons in the CFL. He is a free agent, a CFL refugee with nowhere to go at last check.

    Major Harris was twice a Heisman contender and such a great talent that he left West Virginia University early.

    "I thought he'd be a star up here," says Masotti.

    Instead he was gone after one season, played a few years of Arena ball and retired. All those glitzy numbers in the NCAA didn't add up to success in the CFL.

    "The college co-ordinators will gear their entire offence towards what a guy can do. That was the case with Harris," says Masotti. "They adjusted their offence to suit his assets. Whereas when he went to B.C., it was tough. He came in as the backup and now he's got to adjust to a system he's not used to, something that isn't his forte."

    . . .

    Ricky Ray and Doug Flutie were anomalies. Most successful starting quarterbacks in the CFL spend three to five years in apprenticeship as backups. Calvillo became one of the CFL's greatest quarterbacks but it took years before he got a job as a starter and eight years before his first all-star nomination.

    "If they are big-time stars in the NCAA and all of a sudden they have to take a back seat as the backup quarterback, a lot of guys can't handle it. A lot of guys don't want to handle it," says Popp, "they want out."

    . . . 

    "There are players who come up here and have no idea of the calibre of this league," says Barker. "They expect, 'Oh, I'll sign with the CFL, play there for a year and then go to the NFL.' That happens more often than the NFL or college guy who comes up here and embraces the game. If a guy can do that, he can have a great career.

    "It's the guy who thinks he's coming up here for a year to show his stuff and then go on to something better - that is never succesful. He just doesn't have the right mindset.

    "The guy who does that usually gets cut and often they never get another chance down there either. It happens all the time." Dunigan, who threw for a little more than 43,000 yards and had 306 passing TDs during his 14-year career in the CFL, remembers McMahon as a player who had the skill set to play up here. "But if you don't respect this game and you come up here and think you will master it, you've got another thing coming. "That's been the case with quite a few people. "They come up here not respecting the game and thinking they're going to own it. "That it's going to be just a stepping stone." Ready, set ... Duh! Canadian football can make a college kid's head spin. It's big-play oriented. The motion can be confusing, the field is bigger and there's an extra player on each side. "I just think it's a different kind of offence. They can't get their head around it. It's just such a big jump," says Masotti. Throws have to go farther, defences are different. There's more room to run, but with the ball in the air longer, there's also more time for defensive backs to intercept inaccurate throws. "It's a big adjustment for any quarterback. When they get on the field the first time with all the motion and guys running all over the place, it's a big shock," says Bob O'Billovich, general manager of the Hamilton Ticats and a player, coach and CFL executive since 1963. "It does take time to get used to the nuances and how to be effective. Being tagged as a Heisman candidate doesn't mean a lot except that you don't win the Heisman unless you have some ability. "You have to gauge that against what we do in our league. We're a big-play league with aggressive offensive systems. "Some guys take advantage of their opportunities - and with other guys it never happens. Andre Ware was a guy with whom it never did click and he came out of a passing offence in college. He wasn't consistent enough." Masotti says on the surface the CFL looked like a league made for Ware, who retired in 1999 after three nondescript CFL seasons. "It should've been perfect. But he came up and just didn't make the adjustments. (The run-and-shoot offence) is also a tough offence for linemen to protect because you need a quarterback who can get rid of the ball quickly. It's a couple steps and it's got to be gone. If you don't have a quarterback who can read it properly the guy is going to get hit a lot." Goodbye, Andre. The Canadian game may actually be more complicated for a quarterback than the NFL or NCAA. Cleo Lemon, in his first training camp with the Argonauts after eight seasons with four NFL teams, says with one fewer down with which to work "there's definitely more pressure. One small mistake and it's a turnover or you're kicking field goals or punting - instead of scoring touchdowns." In Montreal, Popp has watched for three seasons as Calvillo, the future CFL hall of famer, has been mentor to Chris Leak, who led the University of Florida Gators to a national title and Adrian McPherson, a superstar at Florida State. There are those in the U.S. who simply cannot understand how either could be playing behind a guy from Utah State, who once auditioned for a pro-quarterback job in a Las Vegas parking lot and whom they've barely heard of but, says Popp: "The CFL game is different especially for the quarterback. When you get under centre in major college or the NFL, there's only one guy who can be in motion. Everything is pretty stationary and you can predetermine and make your decisions based on where people are placed on the field. When you snap the ball, you know where you are going with the ball. "In the CFL you have to do a lot of reads on the run. I don't care how long you've played quarterback, the issue is a lot of times guys come to our league and they have NEVER seen anything like this. "They get under centre, there's four guys in motion. There's four DBs running all over the place and the ball is snapped and now they're trying to figure out what the coverage is (zone or man-to-man). "A lot of guys get eliminated right there because they can't handle it." There are moments in football, as in life, that do not make sense. So, looks can be deceiving. Successful college quarterbacks aren't necessarily great quarterbacks. As Popp notes, "There are a lot of college quarterbacks every year who get drafted but can't play in the NFL or the CFL. "Some guys play for such great schools that their weaknesses are covered up because their teams were so strong," says Popp. It likely didn't hurt Tee Martin in 1998 when he led Tennessee to its first national title since 1951 to have Jamal Lewis in the backfield or Peerless Price and Jeremaine Copeland at receiver. Players such as Crouch or Harris may have looked the part of a CFL player but Dunigan suspects that what separates the successful quarterback from those who fade into footnotes has less to do with speed, agility or physical talent - and more to do with what's between their ears. "I've thought about this for 27 years since coming up here. Being a quarterback in this league is a job. I'm not saying those guys didn't treat it as one. But it's an approach. "Some people seize opportunities and others don't. What's missing? I don't think you can categorize all those guys as missing the same thing. But, with each one, something was missing. "The best way to describe their lack of success is to describe what it takes to be successful. You look at someone like Damon Allen, (Tommy) Clements, Tracy Ham, (Dave) Dickenson, Calvillo, back to Condredge Holloway and Warren Moon; these guys brought some athleticism with them. Their arm strength varied, but every one of those guys had a sense of toughness. "They were physically tough, but what set them apart was their mental toughness, their willingness to learn and understand the mental aspect of the game." When it comes to a CFL quarterback the only sure bet is that there is no such thing as a sure bet. It was May of 2005 and Barker, then in his first season scoping talent for the Stampeders, had earlier seen Gesser at Washington State tie with Carson Palmer for Pac-10 offensive player of the year honours. "I liked him so much I traded a first-round draft pick to get the rights to him," says Barker. "I thought he'd make a great CFL quarterback." He started the season as Henry Burris' backup, started two games and finished the season with four touchdown passes. He was also intercepted five times, completing 23 of 42 passes and the next season was in the Arena Football League. Today, Gesser is head football coach of Eastside Catholic School in Sammamish, WA. Carson Palmer is in the NFL and Barker is a smarter, more cautious man. "The only way you can tell if a player can be successful here is to bring him up and let him play. (Vince) Ferragamo was a very successful QB (in the NFL) and couldn't do it up here. "Akili Smith was a quarterback who with his skill set I thought would be very successful here. Maybe kicking around the NFL a few years he hasn't had success and he comes here and things go wrong, maybe he questions how good he really is and it all caves on him. "You just don't know how a guy is going to react mentally and what he is going to do when he comes up here. "From a scouting perspective it's impossible to know who is going to be successful."

     
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    In response to APpats22's comment:

    Rusty you're overthinking his statement.



    Or underthinking . . .

    Mouth turned on, brain disconnected . . .

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjetssuc. Show nyjetssuc's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to bingobilly's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Why was Tebow not cut until the final hour?  I believe they intended to keep him but something else did not work out as they had planned.  I also believe that it is quite probable the Patriots and Tebow worked out a "standby contract" and at some point you very well might see him on the roster.  Another thread mentioned the possibility of trading Mallett.  Perhaps, they had a deal for Mallett worked out and it fell through...  Perhaps another deal is in the future...

     



    I have read that after week one contracts are not guaranteed. Tebow's vet minumum would have been dead money if he wasn't cut now rather than later. Teams play games like this with the roster all the time at this juncture.

     

    I wouldn't be surprised if he is back. I was quite surprised he was cut and suspect it has to do with $$$ and/or specific position requirements out of the gate.

    Got to save money some way now that BB screwed up the a-wilson thing.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Pure sour grapes preacher.....pure sour grapes...your boy Tebow's gonna hafta go ta Bible College now! Natural fit that indeed...

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjetssuc. Show nyjetssuc's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    In response to stillgridlocked's comment:

    Wow, a Tebow thread disguised as 'Quarterbanks'.

    He's cleared waivers and no one has picked him up.  Thats as damning as it gets. He sucks.

    Who thinks this is a conspiracy because the NFL is secretly owned by the devil?

     

     




     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjetssuc. Show nyjetssuc's posts

    Re: Quarterbacks

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    ^^I don't get how that counters what I am saying.  Warren Moon could play in the CFL or NFL.

    The CFL is not on the same level as the NFL. With a wider field up there, more opps for Tebow to move in space.

    Pretty simple.

    You won't get any pushback from me on Tebow's poor mechanics or accuracy, but that does not counter my premise at all.

    A wider field and lesser competition each help someone like Tebow.

    I would be racing to Canada if I were him.




    He better...because at this point the guy passes so badly he'd be riding the bench for the Billy Graham crusade.....

    As Snoop Lion once said about 7-UP and caffene and comparing it to paying for dinner for groupies before they get busy: "Tim Tebow and throwing ability, never had it, never will!"

    He sucked then, he sucks now, he'll always suck...

    He can only run and hit one out of 4 passes...he's PERFECT for the CFL

     

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