Question to my fellow pats fan

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATinPA. Show PATinPA's posts

    Question to my fellow pats fan

     I have been reading lately alot about how NE needs a deep threat.... and seeing a big, field stretching reciever is always a welcome addition. Could it be though that NE's lack of a consistant running game has caused the team to become so one dimensional that long passes are more easily defended? When NE was winning super bowls earlier in the decade they ran a similar offense to what they do now. The one exception being a more reliable running game with Corey Dillion and (dare I say) Antowain Smith. Deion Branch was younger and healthier and could stretch the field with more ease than now, but I feel teams had to respect the run more then, than now, and NE could complete more downfield passes because teams had to guess more on what they would do or respect NE's ability to grind them out. I may be way off on this but until the offense shows more balance I personally don't see NE having a "Deep Threat" anytime soon. Even when the league finally figured out Moss, the approach seemed to me to be double over the top with a safety and give then underneath cause this team can't or won't run the ball.'    
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Question to my fellow pats fan

    Sorry to say, but your right.  If tate or Price are not the answer to a deep threat then we will just have to watch Wes get beat up over the middle some more, and make our living by producing 12 play 80 yard drives with a 6 yard pass here, a run for 3 yards there.  You know the dink and dunk, but w/out the commitment to run.

    I really hated when other people said this, but Im starting to think thats its Bradys Ego getting us in trouble.  I just can believe that Bill O'bie called some gems for almost a whole year and then said lets throw it 40 times even tho Brady has a bad wheel.  I think its Brady checking to these pass plays to pamper his ego, and when it didnt work he tried to make up for it, by deffering to woodhead in the 4th but it was too late.

    this team also has and identity chrisis/problem, because for years we competed with the Colts for top AFC team to the point we built our offense to outscore the Colts after seeing our defense would eventually be figured out in any said game after a quarter or 2, now that we have the Jets trying to ground and pound and take the afc east, its more important to try and stop them, but we have made up our team of offense firepower and when the stakes get high, in the playoffs teams will load up on your best player (Brady) and make the other aspects of the team come through (special teams, defense) and seieng as the rest of the team is young, they see Brady getting his b utt whooped and crumble without the leadership of  # 12, cuz like I always say, you cant lead if you dont make plays and Brady didnt make enough plays on 1/16 to get in peoples face to challenge them and the whole ship went down with its one Leader!  
     
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    Re: Question to my fellow pats fan

    In my eyes Tom Brady is the greatest QB to ever play the game, but he is still only human.  When he is hurting or just not playing that great the team is in trouble and losses come. I believe that by not fielding a better run game NE is handicapping itself and the rest of the league knows they are one dimensional and make adjustments to capitalize on that. I dont know if its the line or rb's but NE needs to get brady a running game that he can lean on from time to time and make the other teams take notice.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Question to my fellow pats fan

    Like I argued with someone earlier in the year.  I will say this about the run game.  It looked good at times when they decided to dust it off, but most of the runs were due to teams looking for the pass or Danny getting some yards out the shotgun off a draw play, but when you become a team that lines up on 1st down and said WE are running....that is how you guage your run game. 


    I told someon earlier that B.J.G.E may be effective enough to run with Brady behind center, but I still dont think he is good enough to carry a team and as long as you have an undrafted guy that is decent but nothing special, Brady will never defer to him.  He only did it with Dillon cuz he was a stud and when Antoine smith was running, Brayd was still a game manager, but ever since Brady became the truth he has and will not defer to a lesser name back like Benny. the thinking is , if we have the best QB in the league why give the ball to an undrafted back who is probably the 25 th best runner at his respecitve position at best, and I dont agree with it but I understand it.  This is why although I like Benny I can say we wont win it all with him being our starter, unless the whole philosophy changes and it wont because look at the trend.

    The last draft few drafts were spent on upgrading the skill positions for Brady., We went out and got 2 stud TE's , one in the 2nd round.  We got Price in the 3rd round, we picked up Tate in the 3rd round last year.  We brought back Deion Branch, and all this after we did the same overhaul in 06 with Chad Jackson and Maroney and D.Thomas....All are gone which is why the defensive t/o is happening so slow, cuz we keep having to reload this offense after Brady sais these guys cant catch or whatever the problem is (H.Evans and D.Thomas are doing well in N.O.)

    Sooo, to wrap up, as long as we keep breaking the bank to give Brady weapons to throw to and yet give him undrafted, has been, throw aways to run the ball, this offense will be pass oriented.  You can choose to pound it out a few times a year, but its the personell that sais it all for me.  They are concerned with being the best passing team and having a middle of the pack defense and over achieving running backs...There  u have it.  Soooo, basically more MVP's for Brady and No more championships for the Pats!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Question to my fellow pats fan

    Problems

    1. Pass-Rush
    2. CB Depth
    3. True RB, I love Benny and Woodhead but still...
    4. Deep threat
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATinPA. Show PATinPA's posts

    Re: Question to my fellow pats fan

    Getzo I think your points are valid, but my concern lies with where are running game has gone wrong, is it the Line only being able to pass protect or are rb's just not able to cut it. Recently I am leaning toward the line.... to many times there are no holes for the backs to get through or they close to fast. Or do we just not run enough that the line can get a rythm going. Anyway I look at it NE needs an upgrade. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Question to my fellow pats fan

    Im gonna assume that you have never been to a Pats practice "pat inPa" but I could be wrong.  IF you have then you would know, in training camp they install some run packages and go over them pretty heavy for a couple of weeks to make sure everyone is on the same page, but the rest of the year they spend probably 75% of the time fine tuning the passing game so # 12 looks good on Sundays, but like I said b4, the running to them is an after thought and as long as thats the case, we wont have success.  Can you figure out why Benny only got 3 carries in a game we needed a power runner after getting 1,000 yards for the 1st time since (Gulp) we won a SB. 

    When a team brings speed on the field with a dime package, does it make sense to utlilize your smallish, 3rd down back against this defense and try to battle speed against speed.  Or does it make sense to feature Benny or Freddy who are stronger and more suited for power running??? 

    The asnwer is, Danny Woodhead was the best "Pass" protector and "pass" catcher so he got the nod, even tho it went against the right gameplan.  When you go into a game being that stubborn and squander an oppty that will not present itself 11 months and maybe Never, with this lockout c rap, how can you expect knowledgable fans like myself to continue to blindy support You?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATinPA. Show PATinPA's posts

    Re: Question to my fellow pats fan

    I have not had the oppurtunity to make it to a NE practice....live way to far away.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjaycee. Show jjaycee's posts

    Re: Question to my fellow pats fan

    Suspect--
    #1 prob---BB  after the Welker fiasco that is the ONLY reason the game was lost BY HIM. 

    Now, watch cheapskate BB botch up the Mankins situation--------------------
     
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from akius. Show akius's posts

    Re: Question to my fellow pats fan

    In Response to Re: Question to my fellow pats fan:
    [QUOTE]Getzo I think your points are valid, but my concern lies with where are running game has gone wrong, is it the Line only being able to pass protect or are rb's just not able to cut it. Recently I am leaning toward the line.... to many times there are no holes for the backs to get through or they close to fast. Or do we just not run enough that the line can get a rythm going. Anyway I look at it NE needs an upgrade. 
    Posted by PATinPA[/QUOTE]

    I think u are wrong, our O Line is def above average I would give em B. 
    BJGE does one thing really well, he runs hard, he sees a hole and hits it as hard as possible but he got no moves, he doesn't have the speed to break one, BJGE is a solid #2 or a #1 for a team that just wants to try to look balanced. 

     
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    Re: Question to my fellow pats fan

    Akius point taken.....something you said kinda struck me , "For a team that just wants to try to look balanced" this is where I am going with this, when Brady is off NE doesnt have a ground game to lean on. I feel if NE could get their ground game clicking their offense would be even that much harder to dissect. Thus allowing them an oppurtunity to hit on longer passes when teams have to guess pass or run. Even the most skilled of recievers need defenses to respect all aspects of the offense to allow for the deep threat to be possible.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Question to my fellow pats fan

    Ahhhhhh, The element of surprise!   That was lost somewhere between us losing the AFC title game in 06' to blowing people out in 07'
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATinPA. Show PATinPA's posts

    Re: Question to my fellow pats fan

    That is exactly what I am talking about.....I don't know how many games I have watched over the past 3 seasons and thought, I know exactly what is gonna happen next. I know I am gonna get ripped for this and hear " They were 14-2 ", I realize that but I honestly can't remember the last time NE suprised me with their playcalling. I attribute this to a total, either lack of or unwillingness to run the football. NE needs to find a way to be more productive running the football.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patriots1970. Show Patriots1970's posts

    Re: Question to my fellow pats fan

    In Response to Re: Question to my fellow pats fan:
    [QUOTE]Problems 1. Pass-Rush 2. CB Depth 3. True RB, I love Benny and Woodhead but still... 4. Deep threat
    Posted by Getzo[/QUOTE]

    I agree in a sense, but look at it more as

    1. Pass rush (DL or OLB)
    2. OL Starters
    3. CB depth
    4. RB
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Question to my fellow pats fan

    The NFL is a passing league but I think everyone believes that the running game could use some tweeks.  The offense has had to carry this football team for the last couple of years and not in a small way.  Get the defense fixed and the offense gets the ball more often.
     
    1) DE and another OLB and this thing is fixed.
    2) Even if everybody on the OL comes back the Pats still need an OT.
    3) Start looking for that RB.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Question to my fellow pats fan

    A balanced run/pass game opens up the field for bigger passes and play action, everyone knows that. I'm of the opinion that Price has the size and speed to expand the field IF and this is a big one, he is ready to take over that role and there is a running game so that other teams simply don't T off on Price whenever he's on the field. Imagine how open Price or Tate could be if other teams had to game plan around a balanced running game. The play action alone would open big holes in the secondary and someone with Price's size could be dangerous if he can play of course.

    I know I might be in the minority but I don't think you need a big name deep threat if you have a balanced O to get the WR's open. What I mean by that is look at what they did with Givens and Patten. The balanced attack got them open and they were our deep threats. You can't tell me that Price or another mid round WR can't do what they did
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from timesedge. Show timesedge's posts

    Re: Question to my fellow pats fan

    I agree with this assessment, overall, but I think that #2 may actually be better off than most people seem to think.

    I think that Bodden and McCourty will be a top 5 CB pair. I also think that Wilhite and Butler get a lot of crap they don't deserve.

    Wilhite is not and has never been a #1 CB unlike the role he had to play a few years ago AS A ROOKIE. I think that he has been infinitely better in either the #2 or even better yet slot/#3 CB, but I think people are stuck on when he was getting burned by Reggie Wayne  (again AS A ROOKIE). He was looking pretty decent this year too until he got hurt.

    Butler had a a very good rookie year and a bad year #2. There is every chance that he could still develop into a good CB - it took Asante a few years to do it. I think the verdict should be put on hold until after this year.

    If it worked out with these 4 having a good year then I think we actually would have one of the deepest set of CB's in the league. I'm not saying that we DO, and I know it's a big IF, but there's a good possibility.

    In addtion, our pass rush has been horrible for the last few years. If we had a better pass rush then this would make the CB job a LOT easier.

    That being said, I would say that our needs are (in this order):

    1. Pass Rush
    2. OL
    3. DL
    4. RB

    I also do not think that we need WRs at all. We had the top scoring offense in the league last year. Keeping the players we have and upgrading the OL and RB spots will make this team more balanced. It won't be flashy, but it will be deadly effective. More like a bulldozer than a ferrari.


    In Response to Re: Question to my fellow pats fan:
    [QUOTE]Problems 1. Pass-Rush 2. CB Depth 3. True RB, I love Benny and Woodhead but still... 4. Deep threat
    Posted by Getzo[/QUOTE]
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Question to my fellow pats fan

    In Response to Re: Question to my fellow pats fan:
    [QUOTE]Sorry to say, but your right.  If tate or Price are not the answer to a deep threat then we will just have to watch Wes get beat up over the middle some more, and make our living by producing 12 play 80 yard drives with a 6 yard pass here, a run for 3 yards there.  You know the dink and dunk, but w/out the commitment to run. I really hated when other people said this, but Im starting to think thats its Bradys Ego getting us in trouble.  I just can believe that Bill O'bie called some gems for almost a whole year and then said lets throw it 40 times even tho Brady has a bad wheel.  I think its Brady checking to these pass plays to pamper his ego, and when it didnt work he tried to make up for it, by deffering to woodhead in the 4th but it was too late. this team also has and identity chrisis/problem, because for years we competed with the Colts for top AFC team to the point we built our offense to outscore the Colts after seeing our defense would eventually be figured out in any said game after a quarter or 2, now that we have the Jets trying to ground and pound and take the afc east, its more important to try and stop them, but we have made up our team of offense firepower and when the stakes get high, in the playoffs teams will load up on your best player (Brady) and make the other aspects of the team come through (special teams, defense) and seieng as the rest of the team is young, they see Brady getting his b utt whooped and crumble without the leadership of  # 12, cuz like I always say, you cant lead if you dont make plays and Brady didnt make enough plays on 1/16 to get in peoples face to challenge them and the whole ship went down with its one Leader!  
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    OK, YOU make the call. We'll dink and dunk with Brady or hand off to a running that strikes absolutely no fear in any defense.

    Maybe you didn't see their playoff game this year? Brady throws an INT on drive #1... his error. Crumpler drops a TD pass, Chung drops a fake punt that, ifhe holds on to the ball, he's STILL running, then there's my fave: Branch drops the 4th/13 pass in the 4th qtr to kill the long time consuming drive. The Pats let at least 21 points slip away. The JESTS! did nothing to do that either.

    Then, the Defense gave up at least 1 big play on each JESTS! drive. Sorry, but last I looked Brady was a QB, not a DB.

    How many plays does Brady have to make to cover up the dropped passes and defensive lapses?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Question to my fellow pats fan

    In Response to Re: Question to my fellow pats fan:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Question to my fellow pats fan : I agree in a sense, but look at it more as 1. Pass rush (DL or OLB) 2. OL Starters 3. CB depth 4. RB
    Posted by Patriots1970[/QUOTE]

    Huh? Why, I see no problems with either their pass rush or DB's. Remember that great trade on draft day, giving the Packers our #! (drafted Clay Matthews), and taking Chung as our 1st overall pick? Why, that trade toldme that there was no problem witht eh pass rush, and the the DB situation was fixed/bolstered.

    Today, the pass rush needs to be upgraded. The OL needs to be strengthened, and they need to draft a monster of a RB. The CB's are young, got quality experience in '10, and will be bolstered when Bodden returns. They need a knuckle dragging, LB carrying, safety hurting RB. I don't care about a "take it to the bank" speed merchant; just someone who can CONSISTENTLY get them 5-7 yards when they need 3-5. Someone who'd appreciate a 6 pack, a pound of bologna, and a loaf of Italian bread.

     
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