Questioning Belichick's Moves

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

     

    Also, just 2 years ago the media was raving about how great Miami and the Jets were.

     

     



    Two problems here.

     

     

    1.  I have no recollection of the media raving about either the Jets or the Dolphins.  Does anyone else?

    2.  You can't slam the media for being anti-Belichick and them use them to support an argument.  Your schtick is so transparent.  No one here has more agenda driven posts than you.

     



    Also, I could be wrong here, but I seem to remember the Jets beating the Patriots in the playoffs in 2010.  

     

    In fact, it seems to me that the Pats lost to the Jets three out of five times during the 2009 and 2010 seasons, and in both years the Jets went further in the playoffs.  

    The Jets didn't build their team well enough to persist, but for those years there was certainly some reason to be excited about the Jets.  Objectively, they were better than the Pats in those years, even if they weren't built to sustain success as the Pats are.  

    As far as the Dolphins, I don't recall much excitement at all, though some believe they may be improving. Apparently their D line is good enough for Belichick to want the D linemen they cut.

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to DontQuestionBB's comment:

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to DoNotSleepOnThePats' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In Mike Reiss's mailbag today, someone said Belichick has been dreadful at drafting and Reiss came back with a fair and reasonable response.  This was geared towards Belichick's poor drafting of DBs, which I agree with.

     

    "I think dreadful is too strong a word. Dreadful is trading up to the No. 5 spot in the 2009 first round to select quarterback Mark Sanchez (Jets). Dreadful is taking linebacker Rolando McClain eighth overall in 2010 (Raiders). Dreadful is taking offensive tackle Jason Smith No. 2 overall in 2009 (Rams). Dreadful is selecting linebacker Aaron Curry No. 4 overall in the 2009 draft (Seahawks). I could go on, but here's what I'd say about Belichick's draft record: He doesn't miss too often on the first-rounders that often make up the core of a team, but the second and third rounds have been trouble spots for him. I don't think that's dreadful. That probably puts him in the same category as most of his competitors, and then when considering what he's done with some later-round picks and undrafted players, he's still doing well."


    No GM hits on all their draft picks.  Hell, the 49ers had to trade their first round pick from last year to Kansas City because he contributed nothing as a wide receiver.  The Eagles just cut their first round pick from last year, Danny Watkins because they reached on a 28 year old guard who didn't start playing football until he was 22.  But man, does this forum produce a ton of complainers about Belichick's drafting acumen.

     

     



         Sorry...no sale. Reiss is just trying to temper his criticisms. Sure, there are teams that have done worse...and it's reflected in their years of futility. But, BB's drafting recod since 2006 is terrible, no matter how you slice it.  Again, here's the list of BB draft busts, since 2006:

     

     

     

    1.) 2006: RB Laurence Maroney, the 21st overall pick in 2006, WR Chad Jackson, the 36th player selected overall, TE David Thomas, the 86th overall player taken, and TE Garrett Mills, the Pats' 106th overall pick;

    2.) 2007: FS Brandon Meriweather, the 24th overall pick; 

    3.) 2008: CB Terrence Wheatley, the 62nd overall pick, OLB Shawn Crable, the 78th overall pick, and QB Kevin O'Connell, the 94th overall selection in 2008;

    4.) 2009: SS Patrick Chung, the 34th overall player selected, DT Ron Brace, the 40th player selected, CB Darius Butler, the 41st overall selection, WR Brandon Tate, the 83rd overall selection, and LB Tyrone McKenzie, the 97th overall pick;

    5.) 2010: DE Jermaine Cunningham with their 53rd overall pick, WR Taylor Price, 90th overall pick;

    6.) 2011: CB Ras-I Dowling, 33rd overall;

    7.) 2012:  S Tavon Wilson, 48th overall, DE Jake Bequette, 90th overall;

    8.) 2013: It's very early, but does anybody from this draft class appear to be an impact player?

         So...since 2006, BB has had two (2) busts with #1 picks, in 2006 and 2007, busts with three super high second rounders in 2006, 2009 and 2011, along with five (5) other 2nd round misses - EIGHT (8) overall, and six (6) third round misses (not counting Mills, who was a high 4th round pick)....thats' 16 misses on picks in the first through third round in seven years. Horrible. Time to bring in a draft consultant for BB, and/or  completely revamp the scouting process, and methods of player selection.   

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    According to the Book War Room: The Legacy of Bill Belichick and the Art of Building the Perfect Team

    It was BB decision against the advice of his staff to draft Maroney, RB's he could have drafted:

    Deangelo Williams
    Joseph Addai
    Lendale White
    Maurice Jones-Drew
    Leon Washington

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes and until Maroney broke both his shoulders in the same year, he was better than all of them . Thomas and Mills actually played well for other teams. Merriweather was a probowler for two years as a Pat. Just admit it, you are jealous of BB's success and just hate him. Why else would you call a prowbowler a bust?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    "He doesn't miss too often on the first-rounders that often make up the core of a team, but the second and third rounds have been trouble spots for him. I don't think that's dreadful. "

    I think it's a fair defense/argument by Reese. 

    Belichick in my view is a good to very good GM year by year, but his consistency elevates him even higher. 

     

         



    Reiss said he is meh.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Reiss said he was better than you think

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:


    The term "mediocre" refers to the entire team other than Brady.



    Sorry but imo you don't score 500+ points in 4 out of the last 5 seasons with a great QB and a mediocre cast around him.  Do you believe that in 2007 Brady miraculously became a vastly superior QB to what he was before?  I don't.  I think he was always great.  I happen to think that Brady is the greatest QB in NFL history, but I don't think even he is capable of producing a 500 point offense with a mediocre supporting cast.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to DoNotSleepOnThePats' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In Mike Reiss's mailbag today, someone said Belichick has been dreadful at drafting and Reiss came back with a fair and reasonable response.  This was geared towards Belichick's poor drafting of DBs, which I agree with.

     

    "I think dreadful is too strong a word. Dreadful is trading up to the No. 5 spot in the 2009 first round to select quarterback Mark Sanchez (Jets). Dreadful is taking linebacker Rolando McClain eighth overall in 2010 (Raiders). Dreadful is taking offensive tackle Jason Smith No. 2 overall in 2009 (Rams). Dreadful is selecting linebacker Aaron Curry No. 4 overall in the 2009 draft (Seahawks). I could go on, but here's what I'd say about Belichick's draft record: He doesn't miss too often on the first-rounders that often make up the core of a team, but the second and third rounds have been trouble spots for him. I don't think that's dreadful. That probably puts him in the same category as most of his competitors, and then when considering what he's done with some later-round picks and undrafted players, he's still doing well."


    No GM hits on all their draft picks.  Hell, the 49ers had to trade their first round pick from last year to Kansas City because he contributed nothing as a wide receiver.  The Eagles just cut their first round pick from last year, Danny Watkins because they reached on a 28 year old guard who didn't start playing football until he was 22.  But man, does this forum produce a ton of complainers about Belichick's drafting acumen.

     



         Sorry...no sale. Reiss is just trying to temper his criticisms. Sure, there are teams that have done worse...and it's reflected in their years of futility. But, BB's drafting recod since 2006 is terrible, no matter how you slice it.  Again, here's the list of BB draft busts, since 2006:

     

     

    1.) 2006: RB Laurence Maroney, the 21st overall pick in 2006, WR Chad Jackson, the 36th player selected overall, TE David Thomas, the 86th overall player taken, and TE Garrett Mills, the Pats' 106th overall pick;

    2.) 2007: FS Brandon Meriweather, the 24th overall pick; 

    3.) 2008: CB Terrence Wheatley, the 62nd overall pick, OLB Shawn Crable, the 78th overall pick, and QB Kevin O'Connell, the 94th overall selection in 2008;

    4.) 2009: SS Patrick Chung, the 34th overall player selected, DT Ron Brace, the 40th player selected, CB Darius Butler, the 41st overall selection, WR Brandon Tate, the 83rd overall selection, and LB Tyrone McKenzie, the 97th overall pick;

    5.) 2010: DE Jermaine Cunningham with their 53rd overall pick, WR Taylor Price, 90th overall pick;

    6.) 2011: CB Ras-I Dowling, 33rd overall;

    7.) 2012:  S Tavon Wilson, 48th overall, DE Jake Bequette, 90th overall;

    8.) 2013: It's very early, but does anybody from this draft class appear to be an impact player?

         So...since 2006, BB has had two (2) busts with #1 picks, in 2006 and 2007, busts with three super high second rounders in 2006, 2009 and 2011, along with five (5) other 2nd round misses - EIGHT (8) overall, and six (6) third round misses (not counting Mills, who was a high 4th round pick)....thats' 16 misses on picks in the first through third round in seven years. Horrible. Time to bring in a draft consultant for BB, and/or  completely revamp the scouting process, and methods of player selection.   

     

    [/QUOTE]

    How many All Probowlers did you just list? More than just Belichek was a fan of those players. Also your criticism of T Wilson is unfounded and you are still sore about never hearungn about him before the draft.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to GEAUX-TIGRES' comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Sorry. BB on TB's coat tails out the swinging door when he retires as the Pat's QB. Check out BB's winning % BTB and ATB. It's nearly double. Case closed. Please look up proper data. You seem to be very efficient in past Pat's history with the help of the Internet. Now check out the facts I just posted. You lose.

     

     




    This is obvious. Great playersmake great coaches.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Wow I actually agree with you on this one. You said players and NOT player.

     

    ...but fret not Babe I know you will spin out of it by replying somehting like yes I said players, meaning Brady and Gronk.  Priceless.

    Aren't you on here in threads telling others they can't have it both ways? I know you call BB a great coach and I know you love TB. Yet you said it takes great players to make a great coach.

    That must mean you actually think BB is a better GM than you lead on. Don't worry I know you spin out of it somehow, to all our great delights.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah, many great players have made the coaches that are considered great. I'm glad you agree.

    BB's great days as a coach were supported by a number of great inherited players, and Brady.

    Since as a GM he has chosen all the players, he hasn't won squat that would be considered greatness. If his coaching career was comprised of 2005- today, he wouldn't be going to the HOF.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to DontQuestionBB's comment:

     

     

    This franchise will lose it all when BB steps down, not Brady.  

     



    Wrong.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    The NFC West? What were they awful for over a decade as a whole? They only become good in the last 2 years!

     



    Funny how you don't say this when the subject of the 2008 year comes up, since we played both them and the horrific AFCW that season. Fraud.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


    The term "mediocre" refers to the entire team other than Brady.

     



    Sorry but imo you don't score 500+ points in 4 out of the last 5 seasons with a great QB and a mediocre cast around him. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Like I said, I'm talking about the ENTIRE team, not just the offense when I say "the team around him".

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    If his coaching career was comprised of 2005- today, he wouldn't be going to the HOF.

     



    You can make this argument with any coach.  Just remove the seasons they won anything and presto chango.  Whether you like it or not BB has 3 SB rings as HC of the Patriots.  And before you try and sell us all a bridge about inherited players why don't you go and actually look at the rosters of those teams.  The 2004 team (which most people here would argue was the best) was basically all Belichick.  The entire OL, Brady, Givens, Branch, Patten, Graham, Dillon etc. were all brought in by BB.  As for the defense he brought in the entire DL, Vrabel, Phifer as well as the the entire secondary once Law went down with the exception of T Brown.  McGinest and Bruschi were great players for us and an aging Ted Johnson was good in his own right, but they do not make a team by themselves. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    Like I said, I'm talking about the ENTIRE team, not just the offense when I say "the team around him".



    So a historically great offense combined with an average defense is mediocre?  Or do you wish to "explain" how the defense which ranked 9th in the NFL in points allowed last season was somehow so bad that when combined with the historically great offense the result is somehow mediocre.

     
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