Questioning Belichick's Moves

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to Cyberknot's comment:

     I have been a Pats fan for 40 years, and it was never as much fun as it's been since Bill arrived, and isn't that what you watch for?


    BB is a great HC.

    But the fun started when Brady took the field.

    The two years BB had without Brady we didn't even make the playoffs.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to Cyberknot's comment:

     As fans we want EVERY pick to be great, every personnel move to be genius. Ain't gonna happen. Not for BB, not for anyone else.

     I don't think it's even fair to judge it that way. What has been the team's overall success? That is the measure of the GM, and the organization. Has the team consistantly competed for championships? Won their division? Who has been better?

     I won't deny that TB is a hugh part of it, but we were 11-5 in a season without him. With a QB that could not succeed elsewhere.

     I have been a Pats fan for 40 years, and it was never as much fun as it's been since Bill arrived, and isn't that what you watch for?



    Wow you're old. Good post. I've been a fan for almost 40 years also. Hearing the words dreadful and pathetic and horrible when it comes to BB the GM is just mind numbing. The playoff and super bowl losses are painful but it goes away in a few days (2007 being the exception) and I'm excited as ever for the next season to start.

    It's been a fun ride and I'm sure it will continue to be for years to come. History will show Belichick to be a much better team builder than many fans give him credit for.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    Russ V,

    why does it always revert back to Brady when someone calls bb mortal? 

    Cant you have one discussion on draft selections without bringing Brady into it?

    okay, so here is a question for the board and you Russ...how do you rate the performance of a GM objectively? You can't do so by merely looking at wins/losses as a coach, and in this case one of the best, has control on how the personnel get used, in game decisions and game strategy. 

    lets put this puppy to bed once and for all. name 3-5 criteria that a GM can be measured by that separate him from the coach? Anyone, buehler?

     



    Because that is the root of WHY they do this every year. That's why. Can't you see that? What I laid out above is exactly what's happened.

     

    Brady could throw 4 INTs in the AFC Title game this year, with a direct B Line to a loss, and people would still try to pin BB's balls to the wall as GM for that stuff.

    As for your question, I gave you two examples above:

    1. UDFA development.

    I give BB a grade of B+ here. After this year, he may need a new grade on A. Lets see how this year plays out first.

     

    2. Salary allocation.

    I think this is a misleading area due to TB taking below market salaries the past 2 negotiations. If TB did not, the Pats would be in big trouble against the cap/roster decisions.

    3. Not overpaying a player or players to hurt other parts of the roster.

    I grade BB as B+, but imo some of these decisions have hurt the team

    4. Draft picks themselves. Quality of your yields in conjunction with FA moves (or trades).

    I grade BB at B-

    5. KNowing the market and its shifts, which positions might spike or be reduced due to trends, etc. For example, BB just walked from Mesko. Why? Colquitt got 18 million over 5 years in KC back in March.

    I grade BB as an A here

    All he'd be doing is renting Mesko for a year and maybe Allen, a two time Ray Guy winner is the best punting prospect they can see in the next 2-3 years at the NCAA level?

    That's the criteria I use and flat out, no one has captured the art better than BB. We win 12 games every year for these above reasons.




     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Inokea4coolaid. Show Inokea4coolaid's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    Apart from Matt Cassel's 2008 season, what is BB's record as a head coach?

    Even if he is a top 5 coach in the history of the NFL - why can't fans "criticise" BB? He's not a perfect coach or human being. And even when we "criticise", it doesn't mean we want someone else.

    It's called entertainment....and no different in opining (good or bad) on players or the team or coaches.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from GO47. Show GO47's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to Cyberknot's comment:

     

     I have been a Pats fan for 40 years, and it was never as much fun as it's been since Bill arrived, and isn't that what you watch for?

     

     


    BB is a great HC.

    But the fun started when Brady took the field.

    The two years BB had without Brady we didn't even make the playoffs.

     



    But it was BB who drafted Brady in the 6th round. Then BB put his coaching hat on and sat with Brady to go over different defensive looks and Brady recognized immediately what the formations were and how to adjust. BB had never seen anyone so quick at doing this.

    BB the GM and HC knew the 1st 2 years they didn't have what they needed at QB. Give him credit for finding Brady, finding out just what they had, kept 4 QBs so not to lose Brady his 1st year and having the guts to make the change permanently when Bledsoe went down without looking back. He was going to make the change even if Drew had not ended up hurt. BB is not afraid to make the unpopular move. He made the same type of move with Bernie Kosar in Clevland. Obviously there was a little luck involved and good fortune having Brady drop so far down in the draft because no other GM picked up on Brady being so good.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to DontQuestionBB's comment:

     

    Poor draft choices and FA signings have been covered up with the best QB in history.  Without Brady, things in foxboro would have been very ugly.

     



    11-5 2008 with Casssel and an old and slow defense.

     

    Coach of the year, yet again.

    Thanks, BB.  

    PS Brady choked in SB 42 and 46.   BB's drafts or FA moves were lauded back in 2007 and even 2011 with Carter, Waters and Anderson.

    In 2007, BB fleeced Oakland and MIami for Moss and Welker. In 2011, in the draft he secured the ability to get CHandler Jones in 2012 by fleecing NOS and still getting Ridley.

    Solder, Ridley, Jones 1 year later.

    These are outright train robberies for moves by comparison to what other GMS consistently yield.

    Only morons pretend Brady melting down in his last 3 AFC title games at home or being very mediocre at best in SBs is due to what BB does on draft day or in FA.

    That is unadulterated moron logic courtesy of the anti-BB media who apparently has a hold on internet carousing kids and teenagers (or dumb adults).

     




    I just think it's funny how I can list 20 free agent busts over the last 3 years, that did absolutely nothing - nothing - to help or improve this team. If we had spent a little more...went for a little more quality, we would of been better. That's what used to matter around here - getting better - now we are perfectly content (and some just giddy) with staying the same...with watching offenses roll up and down the field on us...watching better teams punch us in the face come playoff time.

    We don't have to go all in every year, but we should of done it at least this past off season...we didn't. For the love of god!! There is two veteran defensive tackles on the roster. Two!! The safety spot needed upgrading...didn't happen when we signed grampy Wilson. A team with Tom Brady and Super Bowl aspirations aren't supposed to have 14 rookies and 7 undrafted free agents on it, the Jets are, not us at this point in the "rebuilding" process.

    Go drive your Nissan Sentra.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    I'm sorry but, taking into consideration everything that goes into building a successful NFL team since the cap was instituted, BB is the greatest GM AND head coach ever. Hands down. That does not mean he is the best at drafting, though in reality he is top 5. That doesn't mean he is the best at signing free agents, though in reality I would say he is top 10. But it does mean he has put the most competitive team on the field without a losing season for over a decade and no other GM has come close to doing that ever. EVER!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    To people saying the roster around Brady has been mediocre for the past 5+ seasons consider that the 2006 Patriots scored 385 points.  The highest scoring Patriots offense during the dynasty years scored 437 points.

    In the 5 seasons Brady has played in (i.e. not 2008) since 2007 the Patriots have eclipsed 500 points 4 times (the one "failure" being Brady's first year back from injury).  The Patriots have been on a historic run from an offensive perspective as there have only been a handful of 500 point seasons in NFL history.  Do people really think Brady just got 100 times better overnight?  The defensive fixes haven't been perfect (although hardly as bad as people say), but 500 point offenses don't just grow on trees or just on the shoulders of elite QBs.  The GM played a role as well.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from zeitgeist49. Show zeitgeist49's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to Cyberknot's comment:


     As fans we want EVERY pick to be great, every personnel move to be genius. Ain't gonna happen. Not for BB, not for anyone else.

     I don't think it's even fair to judge it that way. What has been the team's overall success? That is the measure of the GM, and the organization. Has the team consistantly competed for championships? Won their division? Who has been better?

     I won't deny that TB is a hugh part of it, but we were 11-5 in a season without him. With a QB that could not succeed elsewhere.

     

    I have been a Pats fan for 40 years, and it was never as much fun as it's been since Bill arrived, and isn't that what you watch for?




    I have been a PATS fan since 1974. And I agree, it's been fun watching the PATS these past 12 years. However, I believe you have it wrong. It's been fun since TB arrived. Everyone conveniently recalls the 2008 season when we went 11-5 without TB. And posters conveniently omit the 2000 season when the PATS went 5-11 without TB. Also, as has been pointed out numerous times by Babe, the PATS in 2008 had an extremely easy schedule that year.  And they did not make the playoffs that year. Also, BB's record as a HC in 7 years without TB is 43-52 with only 1 wildcard playoff win. TB is arguably a top 3 QB of all time.   The PATS without TB would still be seeking their first Lombardy.  Some posters might respond  that without BB, the PATS would still be seeking their first SB ring. However, I disagree. TB would have to be paired up with sub-par coaches and sub par GMs not to ever win a Lombardy.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    If he has finally fixed the issues with the secondary I'll be happy. Draft and free agents moves haven't done it and ever since Asante left that's been a hugh shortcoming for the so-called "defensive genius".

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to Cyberknot's comment:


     As fans we want EVERY pick to be great, every personnel move to be genius. Ain't gonna happen. Not for BB, not for anyone else.

     I don't think it's even fair to judge it that way. What has been the team's overall success? That is the measure of the GM, and the organization. Has the team consistantly competed for championships? Won their division? Who has been better?

     I won't deny that TB is a hugh part of it, but we were 11-5 in a season without him. With a QB that could not succeed elsewhere.

     I have been a Pats fan for 40 years, and it was never as much fun as it's been since Bill arrived, and isn't that what you watch for?



    True, fans want to win, and near perfection in picks and FA's.

    we are debating what is a good GM. Overall team success is not a single good indicator as the coaching staff has something to say about wins and losses. Since bb is the coach and GM, it circumvents the check and balance system a bit, and begs the question who has a larger hand in that success, coach or GM? 

    I am again being purely subjective here, but if we split bb in half and sent bb the coach to a team with a different gm, how would both bb the GM and coach fare? 

    My personal, subjective feeling is that bb the coach could make most personnel moves/groups work. He would maximize the personnel given to him in any situation. It may not always turn out with a winning record, but I would argue that bb the coach would get the most out of any team, probably more so than most coaches. 

    If bb the GM was paired with an average coach, I wonder what the outcome would be? Would the average coach know how to put these players in the right postings to win? 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    Russ V,

    why does it always revert back to Brady when someone calls bb mortal? 

    Cant you have one discussion on draft selections without bringing Brady into it?

    okay, so here is a question for the board and you Russ...how do you rate the performance of a GM objectively? You can't do so by merely looking at wins/losses as a coach, and in this case one of the best, has control on how the personnel get used, in game decisions and game strategy. 

    lets put this puppy to bed once and for all. name 3-5 criteria that a GM can be measured by that separate him from the coach? Anyone, buehler?

     



    For me it is simple.

     

    1) Is your team competitive year in and year out with a chance to enter the post season. Once in the post season anything can happen so it only matters if you have a chance to get in and compete.

    2) Can or does your roster routinely survive the attrition of injuries to support the #1 objective listed above.

    3) Do you provide your coach with the players he is looking for, that support his definitions of what he wants in a player for that players very clearly defined specific role.

    4) Can you do #3 while also maintaining a strick payscale structure so as not to create disgruntled and disrespected players and keep your team mostly out of roster/cap induced decisions.

    5) How many players that entered into the league through your organization are still active in the league (including PS's). Even if on another team now. That speaks to your overall evaluation of the total football player.

     

    If I really sat down and thought about it more I might have more or just expand on it but those were the 5 that came quickly to mind.



    Sounds fair, but number 1 seems like a function of both GM and coach?

    number 4 and 5 seem like an objective way to look at a GM without the role of a coach impacting outcomes. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to trouts' comment:

     

    If he has finally fixed the issues with the secondary I'll be happy. Draft and free agents moves haven't done it and ever since Asante left that's been a hugh shortcoming for the so-called "defensive genius".

     



    ^^See, it's this kind of mocking that is irritating.

     

    He is a defensive genius. He's drawn up gampeplans that brought title championships or SBs.

    His gameplan in SB 46, may not have been genius, but 13 points allowed with an uneven back end like that would have been lauded.

    I'll stop there, because we know why we couldn't ice the game on offense.



    Agree. This again is a testament to what bb the coach can do to cloak personnel shortcomings, or bb the GM. I think bb the coach is the best at what he does. 

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves


    If his teams are undoubtably above average, and the Patriots put players onto all-pro and Pro-bowl selections at an above average rate than should we conclude he is an above average coach?  Or GM?

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from provpats. Show provpats's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    Wasn't there a new provision in the Cba that you must SPEND in cash to 95 percent of the cap?  The cap is an arbitrary number with no relation to cy reality

    miguel has the pats at $8.2 m; the pa has around $11m

    i don't have a problem with saving money for the rest of the year for contingencies or to reup a current player like McCourt Connelly Wendell et al. I have also seen enough fa busts (Ochoa fat Albert m wiliams ) to shy away from that as well

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Questioning Belichick's Moves

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    To people saying the roster around Brady has been mediocre for the past 5+ seasons consider that the 2006 Patriots scored 385 points.  The highest scoring Patriots offense during the dynasty years scored 437 points.

    In the 5 seasons Brady has played in (i.e. not 2008) since 2007 the Patriots have eclipsed 500 points 4 times (the one "failure" being Brady's first year back from injury).  The Patriots have been on a historic run from an offensive perspective as there have only been a handful of 500 point seasons in NFL history.  Do people really think Brady just got 100 times better overnight?  The defensive fixes haven't been perfect (although hardly as bad as people say), but 500 point offenses don't just grow on trees or just on the shoulders of elite QBs.  The GM played a role as well.

     



    Could it be that the dreaded shotgun spread finesse offense isn't quite so bad after all? 

     

     
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