Rank the defense

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Rank the defense

    With nothing to do but speculate about the defense until the games actually start lets throw some bets down. Based on yards, or points where will this defense be? Closest at the end of the season will get a prize like a lollipop or something.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    I'm going to be optimistic and put it in the top 10 (barring major injuries, of course).  It will probably be a bit better in points than in yards, since that's usually the case in a BB defense.  Here's my take based purely on the reports I've read coming out of training camp:

    • The D line is going to be more aggressive and get at the QB more than it did in the past.  Fanene and the new DEs are going to help with this. We may be a little thin in big guys up front, but our LBs will be effective enough against the run that we'll still be stout upfront even if our DL is a bit lighter than in the past. 
    • The LBs are improved and will be better in pass coverage than in the past and also stout against the run. 
    • The secondary is modestly improved with Gregory and Allen bringing some veteran talent and Ras-I looking good and healthy in camp.  I'm betting McCourty is going to play better this year.  I'll also go out on a limb and say Wilson is going to be a big contributor in sub-packages playing a hybrid LB/Safety position.  I see a lot of five DB looks this year. 
    Given their horrendous pass defense last year, it's hard to see them jumping all the way to top 5, but top 10 seems like a possibility--especially judging by points given up rather than yards given up.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    Im going with 8th in points and 14th in yards. BTW- last year they were 15th in points, 31st in yards.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    In Response to Re: Rank the defense:
    [QUOTE]Im going with 8th in points and 14th in yards. BTW- last year they were 15th in points, 31st in yards.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]


    That sounds about right . . . at least without seeing them (or any other defense) on the field yet Smile 
    The one thing I am certain about, they are improved this year over last, especially at LB and DE.  
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    I'm entirely optimistic about this defense because they were never that bad. 15th overall in points last year is middle of the road and, like the Giants, they got better before the playoffs. Led the league in interceptions the year before last, ranked 2nd in INT's last year, add to that 3 stud rookie linebackers, our starting corner who went down after week 2 last year, another bevy of free safety and corner prospects, what it all adds up to is Belichick reloading.

    They need to improve dramatically on 3rd down defense but if they rank near the top in turnovers caused and recovered that's all they'll need.  Top 10 in yards, top 5 in points allowed, top three in turnovers places them in the top 5 with the 49ers of the world. Having a well balanced offense that burns time off the clock allowing the D to rest will help also.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    I don't think they'll improve that much in yards because they'll get leads and get thrown on a ton, probably around 20th but top 12 in points allowed.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    In Response to Re: Rank the defense:
    [QUOTE]I'm entirely optimistic about this defense because they were never that bad. 15th overall in points last year is middle of the road and, like the Giants, they got better before the playoffs. Led the league in interceptions the year before last, ranked 2nd in INT's last year, add to that 3 stud rookie linebackers, our starting corner who went down after week 2 last year, another bevy of free safety and corner prospects, what it all adds up to is Belichick reloading. They need to improve dramatically on 3rd down defense but if they rank near the top in turnovers caused and recovered that's all they'll need.  Top 10 in yards, top 5 in points allowed, top three in turnovers places them in the top 5 with the 49ers of the world. Having a well balanced offense that burns time off the clock allowing the D to rest will help also.
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    Turnovers have been a big plus for the defense, but I really would like to see the pass coverage get better on third down.  While the secondary has had a penchant for giving up big pass plays, the real place I'd like to see improvement is better pass coverage from the LBs underneath.  A lot of the third downs were made by passes being completed underneath.  More pressure will help all the coverage guys, but we still need improvement in coverage in underneath zones.  Honestly, I think that's one reason a guy like Tavon Wilson was appealing to BB.  He can sub for a LB and provide better pass coverage underneath while still being big enough to come up and defend the run.  Hightower is a nice option too, because he's big enough to sub for a DL on third down, but can still drop back into coverage.  In sub packages, we have a lot of players who can play their nominal position (DB or LB) and also move forward and play the next heavier position (DB --> LB, or LB -->DL).  That allows us to go with a package that's a little light based on nominal positions, but that can play bigger when it has to. 





     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    Pat Chung is a pro bowler as is Wilfork, Mayo, and McCourty. HIghtower will be a ROY candidate. Either Scott Jones or Bequette will get double digit sacks. 8th in ppg allowed sounds good, I think the LBer core could be one of the best in the game, and it will lead to being top 10 against the run this year. Most of our succesful defense's took away the run 1st and forced offense's into playing one dimensional. Finally our secondary will be better for no other reason then 3 guys who never played in the NFL will not be starting back there, like they were last year.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    I like who they drafted, but trying to replace two guys that gave you 9-11 sacks a piece is a question mark. I have no idea if a guy like Gregory can come in and improve this defensive backfield, nor do I know if Tavon Wilson will. I'm hoping Trevor Scott and Fanene will provide some pass rush, but both are not exactly household names (Andre Carter was a professional pass rusher and Anderson was as explosive an edge guy as we've had in 10 years).
     
    I think Hightower will help (even if he's a rookie) and I think Chandler will give you some much needed length and athleticism on the outside in certain situations. I wish we were deeper and more talent with our defensive tackles and ends (if Vince goes down who is going to step in for him?).

    So I think all in all there are some real questions, but in all honesty when you have a coach like BB it doesn't matter...he will scheme, cover things up, put guys in the right spots, confuse opposing QB's, time blitzes correctly, leave others scratching their heads, sign guys off the street for one specific purpose - for one single game (then cut him), motivate guys, manipulate injury reports...etc...etc..etc.

    I say they will be the 12th ranked defense overall because of some talented rookies that will get better as the year goes on. I'm also banking on a guy like Cunningham, Chung, Pryor or Brace staying healthy for an entire season and making a big contribution. Why not? We are due.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    Let's keep it simple and say above average with great play making ability with that BB zone coverage.  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    In response to "Re: Rank the defense": [QUOTE]I like who they drafted, but trying to replace two guys that gave you 9-11 sacks a piece is a question mark. I have no idea if a guy like Gregory can come in and improve this defensive backfield, nor do I know if Tavon Wilson will. I'm hoping Trevor Scott and Fanene will provide some pass rush, but both are not exactly household names (Andre Carter was a professional pass rusher and Anderson was as explosive an edge guy as we've had in 10 years).   I think Hightower will help (even if he's a rookie) and I think Chandler will give you some much needed length and athleticism on the outside in certain situations. I wish we were deeper and more talent with our defensive tackles and ends (if Vince goes down who is going to step in for him?). So I think all in all there are some real questions, but in all honesty when you have a coach like BB it doesn't matter...he will scheme, cover things up, put guys in the right spots, confuse opposing QB's, time blitzes correctly, leave others scratching their heads, sign guys off the street for one specific purpose - for one single game (then cut him), motivate guys, manipulate injury reports...etc...etc..etc. I say they will be the 12th ranked defense overall because of some talented rookies that will get better as the year goes on. I'm also banking on a guy like Cunningham, Chung, Pryor or Brace staying healthy for an entire season and making a big contribution. Why not? We are due. Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE] Agree on Carter and Anderson. This is what BB said today. Replacing 20-sack production from Andre Carter and Mark Anderson at DE. “We have a lot of football in front of us and we’ll see how it all plays out. We have good competition at some of those outside rush positions, with some young players, and also some of our veteran players, guys like Ninkovich, and Jermaine Cunningham, and Trevor Scott, who a couple years ago had a real productive season for Oakland. He’s been used in some different roles out there, but we see him as a little bit more of an edge rusher. We’ll see how it all plays out. We were sitting here at this time last year and nobody was talking about Mark Anderson or Andre Carter. So guys will get opportunities and somebody will emerge.” Which is unusually open for him. Instead of just "We'll look at the players and put players into the position to help our football team." Could say this shows a bit of confidence in those guys he mentioned, or maybe he just got laid this morning. It would be nice to have Carter back though. My biggest concern has got to be the secondary still. Ras, Gregory, Allen, Wilson- these could be guys playing big roles and none of them has played more than a couple games on the Pats, if any.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    Just for fun, here's the current defensive roster, sorted by position (secondary or front seven), then by weight.  

    Ventrone, Ross DB 5-8 195 25  2
    Allen, Will DB 5-10 195 33  12
    Arrington, Kyle DB 5-10 195 25  4
    McCourty, Devin DB 5-10 195 24  3
    Cole, Marquice DB 5-10 195 28  4
    Gregory, Steve DB 5-11 200 29  7
    Dennard, Alfonzo DB 5-10 200 22  R
    Moore, Sterling DB 5-10 200 22  2
    Williams, Malcolm DB 5-11 205 24  2
    Brown, Sergio DB 6-2 210 24  3
    Dowling, Ras-I DB 6-1 210 24  2
    Ebner, Nate DB 6-0 210 22  R
    Wilson, Tavon DB 6-0 210 22  R
    Chung, Patrick DB 5-11 210 24  4
    Ihedigbo, James DB 6-1 215 28  6
    Barrett, Josh DB 6-2 225 27  5
    White, Tracy F7 6-0 235 31  10
    Tarpinian, Jeff F7 6-3 240 24  2
    Fletcher, Dane F7 6-2 245 25  3
    Koutouvides, Niko F7 6-2 245 31  9
    Scott, Trevor F7 6-5 250 27  5
    Lavarias, Aaron F7 6-3 250 24  1
    Carpenter, Bobby F7 6-2 250 28  7
    Mayo, Jerod F7 6-1 250 26  5
    Cunningham, Jermaine F7 6-3 255 24  3
    Spikes, Brandon F7 6-2 255 24  3
    Rivera, Mike F7 6-2 255 26  1
    Jones, Chandler F7 6-5 260 22  R
    Silvestro, Alex F7 6-3 260 23  1
    Ninkovich, Rob F7 6-2 260 28  7
    Bequette, Jake F7 6-5 265 23  R
    Francis, Justin F7 6-4 270 23  R
    Hightower, Dont'a F7 6-4 270 22  R
    Bulman, Tim F7 6-4 281 29  7
    Fanene, Jonathan F7 6-4 285 30  8
    Deaderick, Brandon F7 6-4 305 24  3
    Forston, Marcus F7 6-3 305 22  R
    Pryor, Myron F7 6-1 305 26  4
    Harrison, Marcus F7 6-3 310 28  4
    Love, Kyle F7 6-1 315 25  3
    Wilfork, Vince F7 6-2 325 30  9
    Warren, Gerard F7 6-4 330 34  12
    Brace, Ron F7 6-3 330 25  4
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    In response to "Re: Rank the defense": [QUOTE]Just for fun, here's the current defensive roster, sorted by position (secondary or front seven), then by weight.   Ventrone, Ross DB 5-8 195 25   2 Allen, Will DB 5-10 195 33   12 Arrington, Kyle DB 5-10 195 25   4 McCourty, Devin DB 5-10 195 24   3 Cole, Marquice DB 5-10 195 28   4 Gregory, Steve DB 5-11 200 29   7 Dennard, Alfonzo DB 5-10 200 22   R Moore, Sterling DB 5-10 200 22   2 Williams, Malcolm DB 5-11 205 24   2 Brown, Sergio DB 6-2 210 24   3 Dowling, Ras-I DB 6-1 210 24   2 Ebner, Nate DB 6-0 210 22   R Wilson, Tavon DB 6-0 210 22   R Chung, Patrick DB 5-11 210 24   4 I hedigbo, James DB 6-1 215 28   6 Barrett, Josh DB 6-2 225 27   5 White, Tracy F7 6-0 235 31   10 Tarpinian, Jeff F7 6-3 240 24   2 Fletcher, Dane F7 6-2 245 25   3 Koutouvides, Niko F7 6-2 245 31   9 Scott, Trevor F7 6-5 250 27   5 Lavarias, Aaron F7 6-3 250 24   1 Carpenter, Bobby F7 6-2 250 28   7 Mayo, Jerod F7 6-1 250 26   5 Cunningham, Jermaine F7 6-3 255 24   3 Spikes, Brandon F7 6-2 255 24   3 Rivera, Mike F7 6-2 255 26   1 Jones, Chandler F7 6-5 260 22   R Silvestro, Alex F7 6-3 260 23   1 Ninkovich, Rob F7 6-2 260 28   7 Bequette, Jake F7 6-5 265 23   R Francis, Justin F7 6-4 270 23   R Hightower, Dont'a F7 6-4 270 22   R Bulman, Tim F7 6-4 281 29   7 Fanene, Jonathan F7 6-4 285 30   8 Deaderick, Brandon F7 6-4 305 24   3 Forston, Marcus F7 6-3 305 22   R Pryor, Myron F7 6-1 305 26   4 Harrison, Marcus F7 6-3 310 28   4 Love, Kyle F7 6-1 315 25   3 Wilfork, Vince F7 6-2 325 30   9 Warren, Gerard F7 6-4 330 34   12 Brace, Ron F7 6-3 330 25   4 Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE] Well say goodbye to Tim Bullman. He's obviously not Patriot material if he doesn't have the dam decency to weigh a multiple of five. Maybe on the Texans players can just weigh in at prime numbers, but here in NE you either get with the program or ship out.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    I also like the fact this defense is made up of 1st and 2nd rd picks. I just hear Bob Krafts live interview with Kirwa and Ryan. He admires the character and intellect of the new guys on D. In summary he said, Bequette graduated in 3 years and could have gone to law school, high character, high motor guy who is very smart. Jones pedigree should not be underestimated with his brother all being athletes. Hightower shouldn't be able to run as fast as he can for being 270#s, and "the kid from nebraska" specifically caught his eye. He also said watching Tommy throw, he looks as good as ever and is very happy they have 3 more guys who are familiar with the system in Gaff,Stalwoth and Lloyd! Happy days.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    Here's how I see the defensive starters...

          
              Fanene              Brace                 Wilfork                Scott 



                   Hightower                 Spikes                     Mayo


    McCourty                                                                                 Dowling

           
                                  Chung                              Gregory


    I'd say 10th in points and 15th in yards. Most of the yards will come from the sky because no one is running on Hightower, Spikes, Mayo, Chung and Wilfork. 
         
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    McDaniel will give BB the freedom to coach the defense worry free, that alone makes them substantially better.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    One guy that might be under everybody's radar is Sterling Moore. He looked pretty damned good in the few games he played and made a huge play negated by a stupid penalty in the SB.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    In Response to Re: Rank the defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rank the defense : Turnovers have been a big plus for the defense, but I really would like to see the pass coverage get better on third down.  While the secondary has had a penchant for giving up big pass plays, the real place I'd like to see improvement is better pass coverage from the LBs underneath.  A lot of the third downs were made by passes being completed underneath.  More pressure will help all the coverage guys, but we still need improvement in coverage in underneath zones.  Honestly, I think that's one reason a guy like Tavon Wilson was appealing to BB.  He can sub for a LB and provide better pass coverage underneath while still being big enough to come up and defend the run.  Hightower is a nice option too, because he's big enough to sub for a DL on third down, but can still drop back into coverage.  In sub packages, we have a lot of players who can play their nominal position (DB or LB) and also move forward and play the next heavier position (DB -- /> LB, or LB -->DL).  That allows us to go with a package that's a little light based on nominal positions, but that can play bigger when it has to. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    "While the secondary has had a penchant for giving up big pass plays, the real place I'd like to see improvement is better pass coverage from the LBs underneath.  A lot of the third downs were made by passes being completed underneath."

    agreed. teams did that at will
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    In Response to Re: Rank the defense:
    [QUOTE]I like who they drafted, but trying to replace two guys that gave you 9-11 sacks a piece is a question mark. I have no idea if a guy like Gregory can come in and improve this defensive backfield, nor do I know if Tavon Wilson will. I'm hoping Trevor Scott and Fanene will provide some pass rush, but both are not exactly household names (Andre Carter was a professional pass rusher and Anderson was as explosive an edge guy as we've had in 10 years).   I think Hightower will help (even if he's a rookie) and I think Chandler will give you some much needed length and athleticism on the outside in certain situations. I wish we were deeper and more talent with our defensive tackles and ends (if Vince goes down who is going to step in for him?). So I think all in all there are some real questions, but in all honesty when you have a coach like BB it doesn't matter...he will scheme, cover things up, put guys in the right spots, confuse opposing QB's, time blitzes correctly, leave others scratching their heads, sign guys off the street for one specific purpose - for one single game (then cut him), motivate guys, manipulate injury reports...etc...etc..etc. I say they will be the 12th ranked defense overall because of some talented rookies that will get better as the year goes on. I'm also banking on a guy like Cunningham, Chung, Pryor or Brace staying healthy for an entire season and making a big contribution. Why not? We are due.

    " wish we were deeper and more talent with our defensive tackles "


    agree wtih you here. was a pref. in draft
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    In Response to Re: Rank the defense:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Rank the defense": Well say goodbye to Tim Bullman. He's obviously not Patriot material if he doesn't have the dam decency to weigh a multiple of five. Maybe on the Texans players can just weigh in at prime numbers, but here in NE you either get with the program or ship out.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]


    :)
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    In Response to Re: Rank the defense:
    [QUOTE]One guy that might be under everybody's radar is Sterling Moore. He looked pretty damned good in the few games he played and made a huge play negated by a stupid penalty in the SB.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    last year i had moore as teh #2 corner by the end of teh year (on papare after dowling)
    if not for where devin was picked in teh draft, moore mightve started this year as #2.
    ( esp if his camp is as good as his games play was last year)
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    In Response to Re: Rank the defense:
    [QUOTE]Here's how I see the defensive starters...                  Fanene              Brace                 Wilfork                Scott                 Hightower                 Spikes                     Mayo McCourty                                                                                 Dowling                                       Chung                              Gregory I'd say 10th in points and 15th in yards. Most of the yards will come from the sky because no one is running on Hightower, Spikes, Mayo, Chung and Wilfork.       
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]


    id like to see some bequette in that scott slot
     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Rank the defense

    In response to "Re: Rank the defense": [QUOTE]I voted top 10, somewhere between 8-10. Of course that isn't really based on yards allowed. They need to adjust how they "rank" Ds in this day and age anyway. So, I am not sure the traditional "rankings" are as appropriate in the Goodell Era. NE will be top 5 again in forced turnovers, a bit better in the run D area and definitely improved on 3rd down D.  Regardless, I see NE top 5 in the AFC on D and hopefully in the top 10 in the NFL. Posted by CliffordWasHere[/QUOTE] You're right, points is better turnovers matter too, but there's no perfect measure. But if a defense does well in limiting both points and yards they are probably pretty good.
     

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