"Rare Athleticism" - Reiss on Hightower

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    Re:

    ^^

    This dude gets used and abused in every thread he sticks his nose in. Someone's always taking it to you for being a grumpy pms'ing little bichtittts. 

    Stop being a full time baby ala negative nancy. You're personal life must blow big time. You know little about football and less about hockey. HencE why I call you Never-shotta-puck.

    Sad when you're claim to fame is getting a handy from a trannnnnny inside the garden. 

    LMAO at you. 

    How bout Seguin? lol

    Do everyone a favour and sign yourself out for good.

     
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    Re:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    ?



    The unofficial eye test.  I like to watch the game tapes after watching the games.  Hightower doesn't seem overwhelmed right now and is starting to let the game flow for him.  He is making plays more naturally and is finally even contributing on pass protection a tiny bit.  It is a difficult position to learn with Bill, but it is one that you must evolve into a playmaker over time and he is starting to make some plays.  He didn't do this to begin the year.



    thats all we were saying and got chastised for it. He should be blitzing more... We wanted more intensity, sense of urgency so now that he has strung together a few "decent" games that makes our analysis wrong? No it just means he IS getting better and you had to have issues for people to say he is playing better now. I am happy he has joined the party but to make excuses about position change is another thing. I watched Bru go from DE, to OLB to ILB and he Attacked EVERY position. It has taken Hightower almost a year to stop thinking and use his instincts and play with urgency and he was doing that LAST year... So I agree fully with your asessment. The homers were saying we were crazy but now after 2 good weeks they wanna gloat??  BUt its wrong for us to say he was struggling after 10 weeks?? Ok, got it



    I am not using the switching positions argument. My argument centers around who he has in front of him. Replace the backups with Vince and Kelly and put mayo beside him and its a different story. Bruschi would have been affected by backups as well. Think about who he had playing in front of him and to his sides...all pros. 

    No gloating here. Just saying he is legit, still learning and will develop into a solid lb when surrounded by capable players.




Thats fair and my last point will be Hightower showed these same tendencies last year(i pointed it out early about lack of instincts) when Fork was inside but playing OLB to me was better for him. Didnt take on guards and was able to blitz occasionally. He just started to attack the guards instead of letting them take it to him. Thats on HIM> NOT any scheme is gonna help a linebacker playing scared or timid or unsure of himself and thats been him since he got here but it looks better when he blitzes which he did some last year, this year not so much but bottom line, he needed to play better and he is now. No complaints from me

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    ?



    The unofficial eye test.  I like to watch the game tapes after watching the games.  Hightower doesn't seem overwhelmed right now and is starting to let the game flow for him.  He is making plays more naturally and is finally even contributing on pass protection a tiny bit.  It is a difficult position to learn with Bill, but it is one that you must evolve into a playmaker over time and he is starting to make some plays.  He didn't do this to begin the year.



    thats all we were saying and got chastised for it. He should be blitzing more... We wanted more intensity, sense of urgency so now that he has strung together a few "decent" games that makes our analysis wrong? No it just means he IS getting better and you had to have issues for people to say he is playing better now. I am happy he has joined the party but to make excuses about position change is another thing. I watched Bru go from DE, to OLB to ILB and he Attacked EVERY position. It has taken Hightower almost a year to stop thinking and use his instincts and play with urgency and he was doing that LAST year... So I agree fully with your asessment. The homers were saying we were crazy but now after 2 good weeks they wanna gloat??  BUt its wrong for us to say he was struggling after 10 weeks?? Ok, got it



    I am not using the switching positions argument. My argument centers around who he has in front of him. Replace the backups with Vince and Kelly and put mayo beside him and its a different story. Bruschi would have been affected by backups as well. Think about who he had playing in front of him and to his sides...all pros. 

    No gloating here. Just saying he is legit, still learning and will develop into a solid lb when surrounded by capable players.



  • I'm inclined to agree in this assessment with respect to the player and the D.  The Pats D is intended to function as an integrated unit with each player intended to execute certain functions.  If one component isn't functioning as well as it might it will effect how well the other components function. 

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

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    In response to coolade2's comment:

    Yup...  Rare athleticism =freak from the combine.  We all knew that but he hasn't shown it until recently.  Hopefully all the criticism lit a fire under his asz and he is now feeling what it's like play belichick football.




    If you think what gets written here "lit a fire " I think you are sadly mistaken! If people took a realistic view of what it takes to break into any new position in any form of employment, they would see this as the natural progression experience gives a person. Too many people on this board, that pass themselves off as knowledgeable on the subject of football, have obscenely high expectations that are in no way based on reality. That is the reason we have all these comments about a second year player that has been starting since his rookie year is not a starter or is a bust. The reality is, Hightower has been starting games since his rookie season, therefore he IS a starting calibre LB and a pretty darned good one.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

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    I think it's perfectly ok to say Hightower had a great game against the Ravens. I think it's ok to say he played well for stretches against Miami, until he had to cover ten yards of space and lost a runner in coverage. I also think it's ok to say he has played like a pig for 90% of the time he's been here, despite the fact he was a first round pick with tons of positional flexibility. I won't make excuses for him, he was drafted because he had the ability to play every linebacker spot and play them well. Belichick said right after the draft he was a guy that had played all the spots...that he wouldn't have to come off the field, and that he played in a similar style of defense.

    I was happy when they drafted him. I'm on record saying he would make a great inside linebacker. I thought he would be a Levon Kirkland type for us - a guy who has outstanding size, good speed for that size, good athleticism for his size, great strength and positional flexibility. I thought he would be a replacement for Spikes and he would line up next to Mayo eventually. I figured he would be able to do everything Spikes did and be able to offer a little something in coverage as well.

    I watched him as a rookie and honestly I seriously questioned all of those things. Too me he looked like Andy Katzenmoyer - he had the measurables, but when he took on blocks he lead with his shoulders and wasn't using his hands. When he tackled, he tried throwing 260 pounds behind his shoulder, rather than wrapping a guy up. He looked lost in coverage. He looked a tad bit slower than expected. He wasn't diagnosing plays quick enough. He was the last one moving after the snap (often a step in the wrong direction). All of this stuff had Andy Katzenmoyer written all over it.

    I said in August that I was hoping Hightower was going to make that big leap that everyone talks about with NFL players - aside from the Baltimore game it hasn't happened - excuse me if I'm not ready to pee my pants with excitement. Excuse me if I'm not going to bite my tongue, like I did when Chung showed serious signs that he was a moron.

      I bit my tongue while I watched Ron Brace play like he was on rollar skates. I bit my tongue watching Rasi Dowling get hurt from a stiff wind - remember that guy? We all had to keep our mouths shut because he played well for two quarters against the Jets before never playing well again. The very same guy that started this thread jumped all over me and reminded me about his ten minute performance every time I began to question that selection. The same guy told my how great Cunningham looked his rookie year - even said he was better than Carlos Dunlop - then continued to call me a troll when I said I thought he was the absolute worst outside tweener guy that came out of the draft that year. I said that. I thought he was the absolute dumbest (blindly rush up the field ten yards past the tackle, taking himself out of the play), stiff, small, guy we could of selected. I sat quiet on Merriweather for a little while, while rusty told me he was the second best safety in the AFC, but that's when I began to realize rusty didn't know what he was talking about (and that we were no longer a lock to draft the right guys).

    I could list literally 50 players rusty has told me were great and that I was a troll for criticizing. I'm not kidding, 50. I'm sorry I feel I have the right to call Hightower a bust a year earlier than I usually would, but I feel historically this is probably what he is.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    I think it's perfectly ok to say Hightower had a great game against the Ravens. I think it's ok to say he played well for stretches against Miami, until he had to cover ten yards of space and lost a runner in coverage. I also think it's ok to say he has played like a pig for 90% of the time he's been here, despite the fact he was a first round pick with tons of positional flexibility. I won't make excuses for him, he was drafted because he had the ability to play every linebacker spot and play them well. Belichick said right after the draft he was a guy that had played all the spots...that he wouldn't have to come off the field, and that he played in a similar style of defense.

    I was happy when they drafted him. I'm on record saying he would make a great inside linebacker. I thought he would be a Levon Kirkland type for us - a guy who has outstanding size, good speed for that size, good athleticism for his size, great strength and positional flexibility. I thought he would be a replacement for Spikes and he would line up next to Mayo eventually. I figured he would be able to do everything Spikes did and be able to offer a little something in coverage as well.

    I watched him as a rookie and honestly I seriously questioned all of those things. Too me he looked like Andy Katzenmoyer - he had the measurables, but when he took on blocks he lead with his shoulders and wasn't using his hands. When he tackled, he tried throwing 260 pounds behind his shoulder, rather than wrapping a guy up. He looked lost in coverage. He looked a tad bit slower than expected. He wasn't diagnosing plays quick enough. He was the last one moving after the snap (often a step in the wrong direction). All of this stuff had Andy Katzenmoyer written all over it.

    I said in August that I was hoping Hightower was going to make that big leap that everyone talks about with NFL players - aside from the Baltimore game it hasn't happened - excuse me if I'm not ready to pee my pants with excitement. Excuse me if I'm not going to bite my tongue, like I did when Chung showed serious signs that he was a moron.

      I bit my tongue while I watched Ron Brace play like he was on rollar skates. I bit my tongue watching Rasi Dowling get hurt from a stiff wind - remember that guy? We all had to keep our mouths shut because he played well for two quarters against the Jets before never playing well again. The very same guy that started this thread jumped all over me and reminded me about his ten minute performance every time I began to question that selection. The same guy told my how great Cunningham looked his rookie year - even said he was better than Carlos Dunlop - then continued to call me a troll when I said I thought he was the absolute worst outside tweener guy that came out of the draft that year. I said that. I thought he was the absolute dumbest (blindly rush up the field ten yards past the tackle, taking himself out of the play), stiff, small, guy we could of selected. I sat quiet on Merriweather for a little while, while rusty told me he was the second best safety in the AFC, but that's when I began to realize rusty didn't know what he was talking about (and that we were no longer a lock to draft the right guys).

    I could list literally 50 players rusty has told me were great and that I was a troll for criticizing. I'm not kidding, 50. I'm sorry I feel I have the right to call Hightower a bust a year earlier than I usually would, but I feel historically this is probably what he is.




    This is also something I posted about last year and said he has all the tools and once he starts trusting his eyes he will be a player and this year started with the same stuff. He was just hiding behind Mayo early and when mayo went out, it was glaring. Im not knocking the guy but for some to make excuses and blame US for noticing it is hogwash. We all want our teams to do well. Some of us go out on a limb and say what we feel. Some dont know what they are seeing and some lie to themselves as to not bash a player. Everyone knows my category. I dont feel sorry for NFL players. I expect results from 1st rounders. Glad he is getting it now.

     
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    Re:

    TripleOG, that's it in a nutshell, we want these guys to do well, but at the same time you can call them how you see them. It's ok. Hightower is not reading boston.com and crying in his eggnog right now. Belichick isn't getting sad...everything is going to be alright.

     

     
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    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    Yup...  Rare athleticism =freak from the combine.  We all knew that but he hasn't shown it until recently.  Hopefully all the criticism lit a fire under his asz and he is now feeling what it's like play belichick football.




    If you think what gets written here "lit a fire " I think you are sadly mistaken! If people took a realistic view of what it takes to break into any new position in any form of employment, they would see this as the natural progression experience gives a person. Too many people on this board, that pass themselves off as knowledgeable on the subject of football, have obscenely high expectations that are in no way based on reality. That is the reason we have all these comments about a second year player that has been starting since his rookie year is not a starter or is a bust. The reality is, Hightower has been starting games since his rookie season, therefore he IS a starting calibre LB and a pretty darned good one.



    You can spin it how you want but any criticism that I put out there I back up with facts and specific examples.  Apparently you lost your laptop and smartphone when I asked HT believers to explain specific plays where he obviously sucked.

    Now that he has played a couple good games the explanation that it's a natural progression is weak.  He went from really bad where not only this board ( mostly me) but troy, ty, felger, Finn, EVERYBODY in the 617 area code were on this guy...  To suddenly playing with aggression , purpose , desire and other obvious improvements .

    So... tell it like it is please.  Players improve for different reasons.  Gaining confidence and belief and responding to challenge and criticism are pathways that helped HT.  Especially since he was so capable physically...  Most of the mistakes he was making were correctable.  You can't coach natural athleticism,... But you can coach and teach position, skills, technique and motivation.  So hes now playing belichick football and maybe he did read this board ...lol. 

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    Yup...  Rare athleticism =freak from the combine.  We all knew that but he hasn't shown it until recently.  Hopefully all the criticism lit a fire under his asz and he is now feeling what it's like play belichick football.




    If you think what gets written here "lit a fire " I think you are sadly mistaken! If people took a realistic view of what it takes to break into any new position in any form of employment, they would see this as the natural progression experience gives a person. Too many people on this board, that pass themselves off as knowledgeable on the subject of football, have obscenely high expectations that are in no way based on reality. That is the reason we have all these comments about a second year player that has been starting since his rookie year is not a starter or is a bust. The reality is, Hightower has been starting games since his rookie season, therefore he IS a starting calibre LB and a pretty darned good one.



    You can spin it how you want but any criticism that I put out there I back up with facts and specific examples.  Apparently you lost your laptop and smartphone when I asked HT believers to explain specific plays where he obviously sucked.

    Now that he has played a couple good games the explanation that it's a natural progression is weak.  He went from really bad where not only this board ( mostly me) but troy, ty, felger, Finn, EVERYBODY in the 617 area code were on this guy...  To suddenly playing with aggression , purpose , desire and other obvious improvements .

    So... tell it like it is please.  Players improve for different reasons.  Gaining confidence and belief and responding to challenge and criticism are pathways that helped HT.  Especially since he was so capable physically...  Most of the mistakes he was making were correctable.  You can't coach natural athleticism,... But you can coach and teach position, skills, technique and motivation.  So hes now playing belichick football and maybe he did read this board ...lol. 




    I'm not spinning anything. I just don't think you've ever tried to managed anybody in a pressure situation. I also don't think you've watched football for very long. It wasn't all that long ago that the accepted wisdom in the NFL was that it would take three or four years for a rookie to develope into a starter. That was considered the amount of time it would take a good rookie to learn the defense and be able to react without having to think first. A first round pick m ight break out half way through their second season but they had to be special. It looked to me that Hightower has just started to react instead of thinking. Which if you think about the fact his "job" changed when Mayo went down, is pretty amazing.

    So what are these facts that back up your statements that Hightower had a "fire lit"? And I want real facts. Not statistics. Statistics are not facts.

    I also want to point out that all those people you pointed to that were "on him" are paid to stir up controversy where none exists, Yes even Troy Brown does it once in a while.  Have any of the coaches stated that they "lit a fire"? No. Has he been cut? No. Has he been benched? No.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re:

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    Yup...  Rare athleticism =freak from the combine.  We all knew that but he hasn't shown it until recently.  Hopefully all the criticism lit a fire under his asz and he is now feeling what it's like play belichick football.




    If you think what gets written here "lit a fire " I think you are sadly mistaken! If people took a realistic view of what it takes to break into any new position in any form of employment, they would see this as the natural progression experience gives a person. Too many people on this board, that pass themselves off as knowledgeable on the subject of football, have obscenely high expectations that are in no way based on reality. That is the reason we have all these comments about a second year player that has been starting since his rookie year is not a starter or is a bust. The reality is, Hightower has been starting games since his rookie season, therefore he IS a starting calibre LB and a pretty darned good one.



    You can spin it how you want but any criticism that I put out there I back up with facts and specific examples.  Apparently you lost your laptop and smartphone when I asked HT believers to explain specific plays where he obviously sucked.

    Now that he has played a couple good games the explanation that it's a natural progression is weak.  He went from really bad where not only this board ( mostly me) but troy, ty, felger, Finn, EVERYBODY in the 617 area code were on this guy...  To suddenly playing with aggression , purpose , desire and other obvious improvements .

    So... tell it like it is please.  Players improve for different reasons.  Gaining confidence and belief and responding to challenge and criticism are pathways that helped HT.  Especially since he was so capable physically...  Most of the mistakes he was making were correctable.  You can't coach natural athleticism,... But you can coach and teach position, skills, technique and motivation.  So hes now playing belichick football and maybe he did read this board ...lol. 




    I'm not spinning anything. I just don't think you've ever tried to managed anybody in a pressure situation. I also don't think you've watched football for very long. It wasn't all that long ago that the accepted wisdom in the NFL was that it would take three or four years for a rookie to develope into a starter. That was considered the amount of time it would take a good rookie to learn the defense and be able to react without having to think first. A first round pick m ight break out half way through their second season but they had to be special. It looked to me that Hightower has just started to react instead of thinking. Which if you think about the fact his "job" changed when Mayo went down, is pretty amazing.

    So what are these facts that back up your statements that Hightower had a "fire lit"? And I want real facts. Not statistics. Statistics are not facts.

    I also want to point out that all those people you pointed to that were "on him" are paid to stir up controversy where none exists, Yes even Troy Brown does it once in a while.  Have any of the coaches stated that they "lit a fire"? No. Has he been cut? No. Has he been benched? No.




    OK...   Agree that young players had to learn this.  Another way to say it is instincts but that might  imply that you are born with it.   Maybe not.  Guys like Bruschi took a few years to get their feet wet , etc.   So yeah the pressure on a first round pick with all the athletic ability is a lot espsecially when the microscope starts shining on you when Mayo goes down.   I think all fans are glad to see HT  starting to feel his potential in this league.  Must be a lot better than reading all those "Obama on Hightower" threads.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re:

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    I think it's perfectly ok to say Hightower had a great game against the Ravens. I think it's ok to say he played well for stretches against Miami, until he had to cover ten yards of space and lost a runner in coverage. I also think it's ok to say he has played like a pig for 90% of the time he's been here, despite the fact he was a first round pick with tons of positional flexibility. I won't make excuses for him, he was drafted because he had the ability to play every linebacker spot and play them well. Belichick said right after the draft he was a guy that had played all the spots...that he wouldn't have to come off the field, and that he played in a similar style of defense.

    I was happy when they drafted him. I'm on record saying he would make a great inside linebacker. I thought he would be a Levon Kirkland type for us - a guy who has outstanding size, good speed for that size, good athleticism for his size, great strength and positional flexibility. I thought he would be a replacement for Spikes and he would line up next to Mayo eventually. I figured he would be able to do everything Spikes did and be able to offer a little something in coverage as well.

    I watched him as a rookie and honestly I seriously questioned all of those things. Too me he looked like Andy Katzenmoyer - he had the measurables, but when he took on blocks he lead with his shoulders and wasn't using his hands. When he tackled, he tried throwing 260 pounds behind his shoulder, rather than wrapping a guy up. He looked lost in coverage. He looked a tad bit slower than expected. He wasn't diagnosing plays quick enough. He was the last one moving after the snap (often a step in the wrong direction). All of this stuff had Andy Katzenmoyer written all over it.

    I said in August that I was hoping Hightower was going to make that big leap that everyone talks about with NFL players - aside from the Baltimore game it hasn't happened - excuse me if I'm not ready to pee my pants with excitement. Excuse me if I'm not going to bite my tongue, like I did when Chung showed serious signs that he was a moron.

      I bit my tongue while I watched Ron Brace play like he was on rollar skates. I bit my tongue watching Rasi Dowling get hurt from a stiff wind - remember that guy? We all had to keep our mouths shut because he played well for two quarters against the Jets before never playing well again. The very same guy that started this thread jumped all over me and reminded me about his ten minute performance every time I began to question that selection. The same guy told my how great Cunningham looked his rookie year - even said he was better than Carlos Dunlop - then continued to call me a troll when I said I thought he was the absolute worst outside tweener guy that came out of the draft that year. I said that. I thought he was the absolute dumbest (blindly rush up the field ten yards past the tackle, taking himself out of the play), stiff, small, guy we could of selected. I sat quiet on Merriweather for a little while, while rusty told me he was the second best safety in the AFC, but that's when I began to realize rusty didn't know what he was talking about (and that we were no longer a lock to draft the right guys).

    I could list literally 50 players rusty has told me were great and that I was a troll for criticizing. I'm not kidding, 50. I'm sorry I feel I have the right to call Hightower a bust a year earlier than I usually would, but I feel historically this is probably what he is.



    It's comical how you think you know more than BB and have it all figured out 100% of the time as some makeshift Nostradamus around here with your superior scouting skills down at Gillette when Home Ec class gets out early. It really is.

    Hightower would be a Levon Kirkland? bahwhah  Levon Kirkland wouldn't survive in this era's NFL the way it is.

    You can continue on with your lies spelling players name wrong and trolling the way you do, but the fact is, people know you as a liar. I'vv proven you as one many times. 

    You lying constantly and namedropping my name claiming I said things I never said, is all over. All over.

    Ya lost.  The Jets, your favorite team, the one hilariously duped you, Bustchise, RKrap and thousands of moron Jets fans, and that approach, LOST.

    "I wish BB built his team like the Tannenbaum did!" - Mt Hurl

    NOW THAT is a direct quote with no words changed whatsoever.

    Absolutely priceless.



    I find a few things diturbing about this post (and not your usual gay bashing stuff that you do in which you should be banned for), but rather you call me a liar. For what? Because I'm not willing to pretend (and lie) that a player is good when he isn't?

    And Levon Kirkland wouldn't survive in this era? Bawahahaha!! Yeah Spikes runs a 4.9 and he can survive in Belichick's defense, but Kirkland couldn't? My Lord!! Bawahahaha!! Is this going to start heading into the "Curtis Martin never was a pass catcher" theme?? You know, where you were futher exposed as a know nothing google hack and nothing more.

    And I never said that about the jets - which makes you a blatant liar. What I did say was I wished we had spent to the cap and went for it like the jets did, because if you add Belichick and Brady to the equation I believe we would of won another Super Bowl. Why is that so confusing for you? Why don't you believe that would of happened? And why do you think that would of been so bad? Because it would of put us into "salary cap hell"? That make believe land that will take a year to get out of and with a little luck in the draft department, wouldn't of been felt at all.

    Stop blaming it all on Brady, it's sad and disturbing.

     
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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re:

    Was this athleticism on display when Jeff Cumberland dominated Hightower and made him look like an NT covering a WR?

     
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    Re:

    I don't think people are giving big Vince enough credit - as big as he is, he is an athlete. I think we will see him back and has someone said, rotating with Kelly or someone else, he will be very effective. YPC against our D with and without him speak to the need to have him back. 

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

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    Hightower would be a Levon Kirkland? bahwhah  Levon Kirkland wouldn't survive in this era's NFL the way it is.

     

    I also pointed out a few weeks ago that looking at Levon Kirkland you would think Hightower could do the same. We can only hope hightower can scratch the surface of what kirkland did in his day. Master of the zone blitz!

    The Steelers had lost their emotional leader, outside linebacker Greg Lloyd, at the start of the season to a knee injury, but Kirkland took over the mantle of leadership. He also took over Lloyd's role in pass coverage as the only linebacker in the Steelers nickel defense. Opponents thought Kirkland would not be as adept in pass coverage as the fast Lloyd, but they quickly found out that Kirkland was just as fast and quick. He had four interceptions that season, a high number for an inside linebacker, to go along with four sacks and 114 tackles.

     
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