RAS I

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: RAS I

    In response to artielang's comment:

    i think people are forgetting that he had a bad training camp and looked really bad in the 2 games he actually played in. either he wasnt really recovered from the hip or he took the infamous Patriots CB second year regression. but he had another major injury before any questions were answered. i think his chances of making the team are very slim and an actual impact even lower. serious dud of a pick, we could have had sheard or brooks reed.



    Yes . . . he wasn't impressive last year when he got on the field.  I agree it seems like people are forgetting that.  Also, his two starts at the beginning of the previous season (2011) were in part the result of the rest of the corners being so dismal.  That 2011 team had a horrible secondary, so cracking the lineup wasn't that big an achievement.  

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: RAS I

    Agree. Maybe a bit hard in him...but you raise a good point, and one that I should of made,,,which is gambling on players with injury histories. 

    My poTNT which you articulated was with pick 33, you don't gamble. This pick should be a starter. Period, barring some bad evaluation or big reach, you expect pick 33 to start. 

    Personally, I don't have an issue with bb gambling on players with injury histories or checkered pasts, just do it in later rounds. Kind of like he did with cannon, Hernandez, Dennard and mallet. Those have paid off, but the risk was far outweighed by the reward. Can't say that for pick 33.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: RAS I

    So, assuming Ras stays healthy...big assumption, what do we really have talent wise? A potential starter or is he more a guy we bring on in nickel or dime?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: RAS I

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    So, assuming Ras stays healthy...big assumption, what do we really have talent wise? A potential starter or is he more a guy we bring on in nickel or dime?



    I see Dennard and Talib as the starters, with Arrington and Cole the "slot" corners.  I see Ras I as a back-up on the outside. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: RAS I

    This year I agree. 2 things;

    1. Should an injury happen to one of our starting cn's on the outside, can Ras start? 

    2. If we don't ink Talib to a longer term deal next year, can Ras start? 

    I know it will depend on many factors, his growth, ability to stay healthy, etc...I am curious if bb brings in another cb to compete and Ras is pushed further down the depth chart? Maybe he does this anyway based on injury history, maybe not. But he currently holds a valuable roster spot, and  my expectation of him, given he was pick 33, is for him to start or at least be contributing in a big way ahead of cole, Arrington and others. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: RAS I

    If Ras is our only backup on the outside, then I think we need to bring in another outside corner.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: RAS I

    Ras has starting ability. Even last year which he had that second year hiccup that Pats DB's seem to have, he still look alright. Not great but good enough where I wouldn't be screaming to get him the heck out of there. So I think he has #2 CB type upside if he can stay healthy. However, I have zero confidence he can stay healthy. So, to me in the current league setup you need 3 starting CB's which means your 4th CB has to have the ability to start and be durable. Ras meets one of those qualifications but not both. Unlike Rusty I don't think your #5 CB needs to give you something on ST's if you have large numbers of STers on your team already. Actually I'd prefer 1 backup slot guy and 1 backup outside guy and roll 5 CBs deep given the importance of the position currently. Considering we are running a 2 TE set your #4 and #5 WR's could be Sters and an RB and a couple LB's but CB I don't want pure Sters. The position is to important in the league right now and with limited roster space if you need 3 starters then you should have 2 really good backups not ST aces. Leave that to positions that run even deeper and don't need nearly as many starters without swing players (ie Nink can be an emergency OLB and Cannon can play both T/G)

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: RAS I

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

    "Saying the Pat's should have tested him for injury or done more towards due diligence is idiotic. "

     

    really?

    your statement says a lot about lack of perspective. one could call your statement "idiotic".

    the draft is nothing but making assessments and making judgemnets on talent, character, durability, etc.

    pats whihffed on durability of ras i. (so far) maybe it will swing the other way on him. i hope it does.

    you may be a little too flippant with our word choice.



    You do realize these guys are playing football right, they're not playing pool.  

    Bo Jackson was the greatest, most durable athlete on the planet and his career ended in a heartbeat.  Don't be so naive to think that even with a full medical history, all the state of the art modern medical techniques and the best trainers money can buy that one can avoid injury.

    In Ras' senior year he fractured an ankle, how were they supposed to test for that, drill into his bone, take a core sample and run a density test?  

    He may never play, but that's how a first round talent slips down in the draft, there's a fair amount of gambling taking place with a pick like that or any pick for that matter.  What if Marcus Cannon has a cancer relapse, or Armond Armstead's heart condition worsens, what if Dennard ends up in prison or Tom Brady gets his bell rung and loses all peripheral vision out his right eye and has to hang it up... there's no testing for bad luck.  

    Could they have made a safer pick there, could they have traded out; sure they could have, but you wouldn't see the results of said player until 3 years down the road at which point YOU would declare yourself an expert on all things draft related and hand down judgment.

    Sorry if my flippancy seems idiotic to you, but it's not nearly as idiotic as trying to play god.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: RAS I

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

     

    "Saying the Pat's should have tested him for injury or done more towards due diligence is idiotic. "

     

    really?

    your statement says a lot about lack of perspective. one could call your statement "idiotic".

    the draft is nothing but making assessments and making judgemnets on talent, character, durability, etc.

    pats whihffed on durability of ras i. (so far) maybe it will swing the other way on him. i hope it does.

    you may be a little too flippant with our word choice.

     



    You do realize these guys are playing football right, they're not playing pool.  

     

    Bo Jackson was the greatest, most durable athlete on the planet and his career ended in a heartbeat.  Don't be so naive to think that even with a full medical history, all the state of the art modern medical techniques and the best trainers money can buy that one can avoid injury.

    In Ras' senior year he fractured an ankle, how were they supposed to test for that, drill into his bone, take a core sample and run a density test?  

    He may never play, but that's how a first round talent slips down in the draft, there's a fair amount of gambling taking place with a pick like that or any pick for that matter.  What if Marcus Cannon has a cancer relapse, or Armond Armstead's heart condition worsens, what if Dennard ends up in prison or Tom Brady gets his bell rung and loses all peripheral vision out his right eye and has to hang it up... there's no testing for bad luck.  

    Could they have made a safer pick there, could they have traded out; sure they could have, but you wouldn't see the results of said player until 3 years down the road at which point YOU would declare yourself an expert on all things draft related and hand down judgment.

    Sorry if my flippancy seems idiotic to you, but it's not nearly as idiotic as trying to play god.



    Wozzy, it wasn't just an ankle injury. Through his college career he had hamstring issues and knee issues. Those issues tend not to go away. A broken ankle is one thing and something you can't predict but if a players career is full of nagging mucles or joint issues it's fairly easy to say that those problems might plague their career. Sure you can't predict injures but the old saying injury prone is injury prone is true. Not sure why but guys who consistantly get injury, whether muscle or freak injures, tend to get injured a lot. That's where the term injury bug comes from. No one can explain it but it happens with certain players for really weird reasons (see Ellsbury). When a player in the draft has consistent nagging problems in college the odds are much greater they will continue in the pro's then not, so why take them with a high pick if it's a known issue to begin with? Well, unless the talent level far exceeds the pick they would be taken with (ie a top 10 pick you get with #33) but, with Ras that clearly wasn't the case as he was graded out as a late 1st round talent.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: RAS I

    It does appear that RAS I is entering his final opportunity to prove his worth to this team.  Won't get into we should or should not have selected him.  What's done is done.  I'd like to see the guy get on the field and stay there for a few games just to see what he can do with regular playing time.  If he does get hurt again (other than a minor ding) he'll be on the fast track for outtahere.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: RAS I

    He was in the dog house last year when he was healthy and our Cbs were bad so what does that tell you?

    He came in only in emergency and was asked to play cover LB and cover the RB! Tells me they dont think he can cover so well. Good in a straight line and thats why they started him 2 years ago vs B.Marshall. Since then, Ive seen nothing really that sais NFL starter unfortunately but hey, you gotta love his size!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: RAS I

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

     

    "Saying the Pat's should have tested him for injury or done more towards due diligence is idiotic. "

     

    really?

    your statement says a lot about lack of perspective. one could call your statement "idiotic".

    the draft is nothing but making assessments and making judgemnets on talent, character, durability, etc.

    pats whihffed on durability of ras i. (so far) maybe it will swing the other way on him. i hope it does.

    you may be a little too flippant with our word choice.

     



    You do realize these guys are playing football right, they're not playing pool.  

     

    Bo Jackson was the greatest, most durable athlete on the planet and his career ended in a heartbeat.  Don't be so naive to think that even with a full medical history, all the state of the art modern medical techniques and the best trainers money can buy that one can avoid injury.

    In Ras' senior year he fractured an ankle, how were they supposed to test for that, drill into his bone, take a core sample and run a density test?  

    He may never play, but that's how a first round talent slips down in the draft, there's a fair amount of gambling taking place with a pick like that or any pick for that matter.  What if Marcus Cannon has a cancer relapse, or Armond Armstead's heart condition worsens, what if Dennard ends up in prison or Tom Brady gets his bell rung and loses all peripheral vision out his right eye and has to hang it up... there's no testing for bad luck.  

    Could they have made a safer pick there, could they have traded out; sure they could have, but you wouldn't see the results of said player until 3 years down the road at which point YOU would declare yourself an expert on all things draft related and hand down judgment.

    Sorry if my flippancy seems idiotic to you, but it's not nearly as idiotic as trying to play god.

     



    Wozzy, it wasn't just an ankle injury. Through his college career he had hamstring issues and knee issues. Those issues tend not to go away. A broken ankle is one thing and something you can't predict but if a players career is full of nagging mucles or joint issues it's fairly easy to say that those problems might plague their career. Sure you can't predict injures but the old saying injury prone is injury prone is true. Not sure why but guys who consistantly get injury, whether muscle or freak injures, tend to get injured a lot. That's where the term injury bug comes from. No one can explain it but it happens with certain players for really weird reasons (see Ellsbury). When a player in the draft has consistent nagging problems in college the odds are much greater they will continue in the pro's then not, so why take them with a high pick if it's a known issue to begin with? Well, unless the talent level far exceeds the pick they would be taken with (ie a top 10 pick you get with #33) but, with Ras that clearly wasn't the case as he was graded out as a late 1st round talent.

     



    Agree. The term injury prone is for good reason. I don't think you gamble pick 33 on an injury prone player. The downside is too high here, and the expectation is you land a starter at 33, and, it doesn't necessarily take them 3-4 years to become one given where selected and the needs of the team. Rewind..we needed a starting cb when Ras was chosen , not a depth player. Clearly if this is the case, you don't gamble on an injury prone kid. Just makes sense. 

    Your examples are exactly my point. You gamble on a 5th, 7th or FA that doesn't get a huge amount of guaranteed money. You don't gamble with 33. So if cannon or Dennard wash out, no big deal. The capital to acquire was low vs the risk. Hernandez is a perfect example. Bb didn't draft him in round 2 or 3. He waited to 4. Mallett was a 1st round talent, but drafted in round 3. In both these cases the risk was acceptable given the capital expended. Both panned out.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: RAS I

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

     

     

    "Saying the Pat's should have tested him for injury or done more towards due diligence is idiotic. "

     

    really?

    your statement says a lot about lack of perspective. one could call your statement "idiotic".

    the draft is nothing but making assessments and making judgemnets on talent, character, durability, etc.

    pats whihffed on durability of ras i. (so far) maybe it will swing the other way on him. i hope it does.

    you may be a little too flippant with our word choice.

     



    You do realize these guys are playing football right, they're not playing pool.  

     

    Bo Jackson was the greatest, most durable athlete on the planet and his career ended in a heartbeat.  Don't be so naive to think that even with a full medical history, all the state of the art modern medical techniques and the best trainers money can buy that one can avoid injury.

    In Ras' senior year he fractured an ankle, how were they supposed to test for that, drill into his bone, take a core sample and run a density test?  

    He may never play, but that's how a first round talent slips down in the draft, there's a fair amount of gambling taking place with a pick like that or any pick for that matter.  What if Marcus Cannon has a cancer relapse, or Armond Armstead's heart condition worsens, what if Dennard ends up in prison or Tom Brady gets his bell rung and loses all peripheral vision out his right eye and has to hang it up... there's no testing for bad luck.  

    Could they have made a safer pick there, could they have traded out; sure they could have, but you wouldn't see the results of said player until 3 years down the road at which point YOU would declare yourself an expert on all things draft related and hand down judgment.

    Sorry if my flippancy seems idiotic to you, but it's not nearly as idiotic as trying to play god.



    I wonder if it might now be possible to take a VIRTUAL core sample of someone's bones? If so you and I could make a bit of money off sports teams wanting more info on players.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from getdrunkstupit. Show getdrunkstupit's posts

    Re: RAS I

    In response to Brady2Amendola's comment:

    Hes gonna be good if he stays healthy



    why? because he's a patriot?  homer

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dreighver. Show dreighver's posts

    Re: RAS I

    In response to getdrunkstupit's comment:

    In response to Brady2Amendola's comment:

     

    Hes gonna be good if he stays healthy

     



    why? because he's a patriot?  homer

     



    Lol. Sober up, buddy.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from artielang. Show artielang's posts

    Re: RAS I

    I'm not sure I understand why people think ras-I will suddenly develop into some sort of effective player. Honestly, can you think of any player at a skill position that has essentially missed 3 straight seasons (going back to college) who has ever come back to play effectively? Even if he were to manage to stay healthy somehow, football players don't really seem to be able to come back after missing so many seasons. plus all the injuries and surgeries have to have taken a toll on his body. One of the big issues with him last season was that his previous hip injury seemed to rob him of his flexibility and ability to turn to the ball. Who knows if that will ever come back. And who knows if his speed will ever come back after all the leg injuries. Or if the timing and technique will ever come back after all the missed time. It would really be one of the great all time comebacks if you think about it. So...pretty much unlikely. 

     
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