Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    I'm no expert on game tape but here I go:

    Butler- F, I think he'll improve but he's spent the better part of his last 3 weeks getting burned

    Cunningham- C, 3 games into his career I wouldn't expect much more but he's doing well for a rookie.

    Mcourty- A, May be a bit early for that grade, he may just be the beneficiary of a week RCB a lot but so far he's made plays and kept the guy he's covering from coming up big

    Chung- A, Played well, tackled well, covered well.

    Brace- B, Looked good the last few weeks.  I may be off on this grade but he's looked good to me.

    Meriweather- C- 4th year but still up and down.  A playmaker sometimes, a poor tackler others.  Blow coverages sometimes.

    Mayo- B, maybe A, tough call.

    Guyton- B, solid, had an INT.  Not big time player but good.

    Spikes- C but has more upside in the long run than Guyton probably.

    Wilhite- D or F- I haven't seen much of him but I don't think he's played much which probably says enough.

    As for Nink, Warren, Sanders, Wright, TBC, and the others I would probably put most in the B or C range.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman2. Show Patsman2's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    In Response to Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense:
    [QUOTE]Can someone please provide a realistic analysis of our 1-3 year guys on D and what we can expect? Thanks.
    Posted by PetesCall[/QUOTE]

    Honestly I think the biggest problem is we don't know what to expect.  Are we seeing growing pains or are some of these guys just really that bad (yes you MR Butler).  For now I think we have to expect 38 to 30 games until we see some actual improvement on the field.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    2008 Class:

    Jerod Mayo:  He's a mainstay of this defense and one of it's leaders, Pro-Bowl potential.

    Terrence Wheatley:  Flashed in 2008 but has done little since.  He didn't perform well last year and has an injury history, he doesn't look to be more than CB depth at this point.

    Shawn Crable:  Has new life, we'll see if he can capitalize on the opportunity, TBD.

    Jonathan Wilhite:  Looks like nothing more than a nickel CB.

    2009 Class:

    Pat Chung:  Looks like a future leader and mainstay on this defense.  He may never be considered an elite player but is a guy that will give you 100% on every snap, plays a physical brand of football, is a secure tackler and will put the work in watching film.  He'll also give you value on special teams.

    Ron Brace:  Looks to be progressing in a positive direction, should be part of the regular DL rotation.

    Darius Butler:  Looks to be regressing at this point in the season and has been a liability against both the run and pass. He's a young kid with excellent athleticism so you hope he can turn things around.  His problems appear to stem from a lack of confidence and/or understanding/execution of his assignments within their scheme.

    Tyrone McKenzie:  Came in with high expectations and was injured in camp last year, spend the entire season on IR.  This year he appears to looked lost on the field and was cut, then resigned to the practice squad. 

    Myron Pryor:  Has been part of the DL rotation and should at the very least provide roster depth.

    Darryl Richard:  On IR.  I don't see him every doing much with this team.

    Class of 2009:

    Devin McCourty:  He's doing about as well as one might expect from a rookie thrust into the #1 CB role.  He'll also excel on special teams. 
    I think he projects as one of the top defenders on this team within 3 years.

    Jermaine Cunningham:  Started the Buffalo game and looked pretty good, this says a lot considering he was inactive for most of the preseason.  Talented kid with good size, good player in the SEC at Florida.  Assuming he stays healthy, I think he'll be one of the starters at OLB moving forward.

    Brandon Spikes:  I think he'll be another future leader of this defense, emotional player, big and physical, great instincts.  He's stout against the run but will need to develop against the pass to become a consistent 3 down player.

    Brandon Deadrick:  DL Depth at this point.

    Kade Weston:  Cut following camp.

    Undrafted Players:

    Gary Guyton:  Part of the regular ILB rotation, especially on passing downs.  Will at the very least provide quality roster depth.

    Kyle Arrington:  Good special teams player, though he's currently getting reps at CB opposite McCourty.  Ideally he's probably not someone that you want getting regular snaps with the 1's.

    Kyle Love: Roster depth.

    Dane Fletcher:  LB/Special teams depth.

    Brett Lockett:  On IR.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    Meriweather- C- 4th year but still up and down.  A playmaker sometimes, a poor tackler others.  Blow coverages sometimes.

    I have to disagree with this statement. We've yet to see Meriweather perform these actions THIS SEASON. The only bad play I've seen from him was the Spiller TD. I want someone else to tell me where he made an awful play.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    In Response to Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense:
    [QUOTE]Meriweather- C- 4th year but still up and down.  A playmaker sometimes, a poor tackler others.  Blow coverages sometimes . I have to disagree with this statement. We've yet to see Meriweather perform these actions THIS SEASON. The only bad play I've seen from him was the Spiller TD. I want someone else to tell me where he made an awful play.
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]

    So you want to overlook his career to date (which has been up and down) and use a season in which he's lost his starting job as evidence that he's turned things around?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    Not enough has been said about the positive play for Brace. We killed him and those who drafted him on this board to say the least, he was just buried and for little more than one bad game and an injury. He has not done much yet but if you give him a B for some solid play that says alot. I wish him the best, has been a nice guy for sure.

    As to Butler, his weekness to date has not been his quickness or positioning (outside of that bad angle he took in the bills game ) nor has it been his tackling. Both are solid in my mind for a 1st year starter. His downfall to date has been his hands and anticipation. He doesn't make good plays on the ball and is weak in breaking up the pass at the point of reception. Now this is bad but I will say that it is more critical he have the speed and agility to stay with his man, which he does. He can work on his pass breakups and if he does will be a very good corner. We have to assume that he was not thrown at very often in college and went against smaller weaker Rec., it would make sense then that this would be his biggest area to work on. As to any other miscues, I am sure his confidence is shot atm and it would be expected he would begin to make mental mistakes, most would. BB will build him back up and he will get back out there to show us something before this season ends.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    Chung reminds me of a young Rodney Harrison.  Not afraid to throw himself around the field.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from viewer222. Show viewer222's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    In Response to Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense:
    [QUOTE]I'm no expert on game tape but here I go: Butler- F, I think he'll improve but he's spent the better part of his last 3 weeks getting burned Cunningham- C, 3 games into his career I wouldn't expect much more but he's doing well for a rookie. Mcourty- A, May be a bit early for that grade, he may just be the beneficiary of a week RCB a lot but so far he's made plays and kept the guy he's covering from coming up big Chung- A, Played well, tackled well, covered well. Brace- B, Looked good the last few weeks.  I may be off on this grade but he's looked good to me. Meriweather- C- 4th year but still up and down.  A playmaker sometimes, a poor tackler others.  Blow coverages sometimes. Mayo- B, maybe A, tough call. Guyton- B, solid, had an INT.  Not big time player but good. Spikes- C but has more upside in the long run than Guyton probably. Wilhite- D or F-
    In fairness to the CBs, except for McCourty they all stink. Problem is: they are all young and inexperienced. There is no leadership back there. You would think that BB would bring in Shawn Springs as a CB coach. Someone needs to step forward to help these guys with the little adjustments that make a difference.
    Butler should not be playing if he is regressing. Typically good teams will put someone in like Butler as a nickel and give him more skillful assignments as his confidence increases. Unfortunately you can say the same thing about Wilhite ,Wheatley and Arrington. These things should be obvious to the  Defensive CoOrdinator . Again unfortunately I think the Defensive CoOrdinator is spread a little too thin.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    In Response to Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense : So you want to overlook his career to date (which has been up and down) and use a season in which he's lost his starting job as evidence that he's turned things around?
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    It's called improving your game. Brandon improved his game this season. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    overall the guys are a C+ till they shut somebody out
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    In Response to Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense : It's called improving your game. Brandon improved his game this season. 
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]

    Your just throwing it out there that he's improving with nothing to back it up.  By improving his game, you're talking about him going from a "Pro-Bowler" last year to seeing a reduction in his playing time this year for self admittedly not doing what he was coached to do in practice? 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PetesCall. Show PetesCall's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    In Response to Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense:
    [QUOTE]2008 Class: Jerod Mayo :  He's a mainstay of this defense and one of it's leaders, Pro-Bowl potential. Terrence Wheatley :  Flashed in 2008 but has done little since.  He didn't perform well last year and has an injury history, he doesn't look to be more than CB depth at this point. Shawn Crable :  Has new life, we'll see if he can capitalize on the opportunity, TBD. Jonathan Wilhite :  Looks like nothing more than a nickel CB. 2009 Class: Pat Chung :  Looks like a future leader and mainstay on this defense.  He may never be considered an elite player but is a guy that will give you 100% on every snap, plays a physical brand of football, is a secure tackler and will put the work in watching film.  He'll also give you value on special teams. Ron Brace :  Looks to be progressing in a positive direction, should be part of the regular DL rotation. Darius Butler :  Looks to be regressing at this point in the season and has been a liability against both the run and pass. He's a young kid with excellent athleticism so you hope he can turn things around.  His problems appear to stem from a lack of confidence and/or understanding/execution of his assignments within their scheme. Tyrone McKenzie :  Came in with high expectations and was injured in camp last year, spend the entire season on IR.  This year he appears to looked lost on the field and was cut, then resigned to the practice squad.  Myron Pryor :  Has been part of the DL rotation and should at the very least provide roster depth. Darryl Richard :  On IR.  I don't see him every doing much with this team. Class of 2009: Devin McCourty :  He's doing about as well as one might expect from a rookie thrust into the #1 CB role.  He'll also excel on special teams.   I think he projects as one of the top defenders on this team within 3 years. Jermaine Cunningham :  Started the Buffalo game and looked pretty good, this says a lot considering he was inactive for most of the preseason.  Talented kid with good size, good player in the SEC at Florida.  Assuming he stays healthy, I think he'll be one of the starters at OLB moving forward. Brandon Spikes :  I think he'll be another future leader of this defense, emotional player, big and physical, great instincts.  He's stout against the run but will need to develop against the pass to become a consistent 3 down player. Brandon Deadrick :  DL Depth at this point. Kade Weston :  Cut following camp. Undrafted Players: Gary Guyton :  Part of the regular ILB rotation, especially on passing downs.  Will at the very least provide quality roster depth. Kyle Arrington :  Good special teams player, though he's currently getting reps at CB opposite McCourty.  Ideally he's probably not someone that you want getting regular snaps with the 1's. Kyle Love : Roster depth. Dane Fletcher :  LB/Special teams depth. Brett Lockett :  On IR.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    Thank you very much.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    In Response to Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense : Your just throwing it out there that he's improving with nothing to back it up.  By improving his game, you're talking about him going from a "Pro-Bowler" last year to seeing a reduction in his playing time this year for self admittedly not doing what he was coached to do in practice? 
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    Then that's not regressing, that's just lack of maturity. He has improved his game because he got better in coverage, he sured up his tackling and he's taking his benching well. He's a pro-bowler, his benching should be big news, but he's not once called it a bad move. All he did was take responsibility and vowed to work harder until he earns his starting spot back. 


    I'm not saying he's Ed Reed, but he doesn't deserve half the flack you guys give him. The way some people talk about him you'd think Meriweather was Adalius Thomas. The Patriots defense is not a better unit without Brandon Meriweather. Both himself and Patrick Chung are the future at that position. After both came away with TOs last week, the future looks more and more bright at the safety position. Whatever happens this year happens, but next year, if Bodden and Warren come back and we don't take another major hit due to injuries this defense is a top-5 unit. The potential is there, it just has to develop. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from N464Mex-N460A. Show N464Mex-N460A's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    49patriots, are you brandon meriweather's mom? have you ever listened to him being interviewed? he is on weei every monday. meriweather is borderline retarded. he is an idiot idot idiot. very inconsistent. hopefuly page is good. maybe him a chung will be a good combo. meriweather is not a part of the future- page does have the weirdest ears ive ever frickin seen but i wont count that against him
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    In Response to Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense:
    [QUOTE]49patriots, are you brandon meriweather's mom? have you ever listened to him being interviewed? he is on weei every monday. meriweather is borderline retarded. he is an idiot idot idiot. very inconsistent. hopefuly page is good. maybe him a chung will be a good combo. meriweather is not a part of the future- page does have the weirdest ears ive ever frickin seen but i wont count that against him
    Posted by sirpinochle[/QUOTE]

    Well, Brandon is my favorite defender. All you guys keep saying is that one bad play he had last week, Brady had a bad game the week before, but no one held that against him. I keep asking you guys to tell me another instant where Meriweather had a bad play this season but no one's given me another. One play makes a season to you guys? No wonder you're all ready to give up on the 2010 season and write us off as an 8-8 team. Apparently all that matters is a small sample. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    In Response to Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense : Then that's not regressing, that's just lack of maturity. He has improved his game because he got better in coverage, he sured up his tackling and he's taking his benching well. He's a pro-bowler, his benching should be big news, but he's not once called it a bad move. All he did was take responsibility and vowed to work harder until he earns his starting spot back.  I'm not saying he's Ed Reed, but he doesn't deserve half the flack you guys give him. The way some people talk about him you'd think Meriweather was Adalius Thomas. The Patriots defense is not a better unit without Brandon Meriweather. Both himself and Patrick Chung are the future at that position. After both came away with TOs last week, the future looks more and more bright at the safety position. Whatever happens this year happens, but next year, if Bodden and Warren come back and we don't take another major hit due to injuries this defense is a top-5 unit. The potential is there, it just has to develop. 
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]

    You keep making excuses for him, but don't seem to provide any instances in which he's shown consistent improvement this season, yet you throw out the fact that he's immature and doesn't follow the schemes in practice, which again, has resulted in a reduction in playing time...that is regression.  I also haven't brought up Adalius Thomas (he has no relevancy to this debate), which I'm guessing you did to deflect from the main point (Meriweather has regressed), but if you must go there, Meriweather is a lot closer to Thomas than he is to Chung, both Meriweather and Thomas are knuckleheads that just don't get it and put their own interests ahead of the team which reflects in their performance.  Chung on the other hand does everything in his power (both on the practice field and in the film room) to ensure that he's prepared and that is evident by his progress from last year.  At 23, he's self motivated and doesn't need a benching to light a fire under his butt.  I don't doubt Meriweather's physical talents, but his approach and ability to execute are lacking.
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

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    In Response to Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense : Thank you very much.
    Posted by PetesCall[/QUOTE]

    Those are only my opinions, but you're welcome.
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    Mayo- B - Last week I saw the Mayo I loved his rookie year. Getting off blocks making plays. He was the sole reason the Bills at one point took a FG. Got a sack one play, sniffed out the run next, and then made the tackle on the next play to prevent the first. Dudes a beast but he has to get off these blocks and be better on run downs. LBs take usually the longest to progress but so far dude still looks like a stud.

    Spikes B minus- His talent is an A I wanna get that clear his upside IMO is alot higher than Mayos. The past 3 weeks hes been at least on 3 different occasions in each game has almost taken the hand off from the QB but over ran the play. Hes getting there but just isnt making the plays due to him not being up to speed yet. When week 10 rolls around this guy if healthy is going to be a machine.

    Wheatley N/A- Tough to grade someone when they havent even been on the field. If he doesnt make it on the field to replace Wilhite this year then we have all the signs for what he has become.

    McCourty B- Has been everything we could have asked for and more out of a rookie. Outlook on him he could be very special in a couple years expect him to have a game here and there where he might play bad but this dude is going to be a legit. Better than Ty.

    Butler C- LOL @ an F grade. A corner like Darius with what hes trying to do in this league man its tough and you dont see corners like him just magically look good. Growing pains and it takes time he looked good at times his rookie year and good times in week 1. Thats not luck the dude has talent just give him time hes only started in the range of 6-8 games?

    Tate B+ when thrown the ball this dude just catches everything. That fumble last week was a bit Patrick Pass esque but he has alot of talent and could be a rich mans Deion Branch.

    Taylor Price N/A- eh cant really give a grade on him but outlook is good for him as well good hands, smart player, had a great training camp but hes just raw right now and route running isnt one of his niches.

    Hernandez A+ dudes going to be a vital part of this offense for years to come. He is hands down one of the most electric players I have seen. Hes given us more than Watson has ever given us in his 3 year stint here. Thats saying alot....

    Gronk B+ Like said with Hernandez when Gronk can get down the routes and timing for this offense hes going to be a nightmare for defenses hes 6'6 running down the seam? Oh good lord. So far hes been really good 2 TDs in 3 weeks.

    Edelman B+ who would have thought some QB from Kent State would have turned out to be a WR? Well other than Mike Reiss lol. Great player if he can stay healthy he could probably do a bit more damage. The team obviously likes him as they put him at RB last week.

    Guyton B minus I love Guyton his speed is just nasty but my problem is other than that he really is weak up front and isnt the best LB for run downs. Hes a strictly pass down player I love his play though and his effort dudes a beast on passing downs and handling those backs and TEs.


     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PetesCall. Show PetesCall's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    In Response to Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense:
    [QUOTE]If you go back and watch the game, there is a lot about #31 thats wrong out there, but you wouldnt know it from casually watching it live....but the game film wil show him constantly out of position and biting up on things he thinks he sees and it allows a play to made elswhere...just because you dont see him in the area doesnt mean he wasnt responsible somehow....He needs to play the safety position and do his job, but he reacting to everything in front....its called taking the Cheese.....you drag a  reciever over the middle to get him to bite up and throw over his head.  I have seen this happen atleast 3 times...He is making a lot of mistakes he should have learned from by now....its pretty simple , when you can start a bum like Sanders over #31, he must be Efffing up
    Posted by patsfan76[/QUOTE]
    Good point on Sanders. Last week, he had the worst "chest-hug" misssed tackle I've seen in several years!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SteveB7SFG. Show SteveB7SFG's posts

    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    Third and 18 Meriweather whiffed (along with Guyton and Wilhite) completely on the pass that broke Buffalo's 0-40 streak on 3rd and 10+ yards. It allowed the reciever to go another ten yards.

    Like the previous posters have said, the fact that he isn't starting and James Sanders' performance being hardly adequate speaks volumes about how the coaches feel about how he is playing.
     
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    Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense

    In Response to Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rate the Young Guys on Pat's Defense : So you want to overlook his career to date (which has been up and down) and use a season in which he's lost his starting job as evidence that he's turned things around?
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    Bah he deserves a B grade. He got sent a message by BB nothing more. He's the best we have at that position and still has a lot more upside. If he has a little more discipline and improves his open field tackling he's going to be rock solid.
     

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