Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    Check out Football Outsiders' assessment of Aqib Talib in the following link:

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/17017/aqib-talib

    Comparing their bottom-line assessment against Darrelle Revis and Devin McCourty in adjusted charting stats for 2011:

    Adjusted success % (% of unsuccessful offensive plays against):

    Revis - 62%, ranked 11

    McCourty - 46%, ranked 65

    Talib - 64%, ranked 6

    Adjusted yards/play:

    Revis - 5.5, ranked 8

    McCourty - 10.6, ranked 78

    Talib - 5.5, ranked 9

    Revis is better than Talib on pass defense, Talib is better than Revis on run defense. But overall Talib is in pretty select company statistically. McCourty, our supposed #1 CB in 2011, had an awful year last year and the Pats still made it to the SuperBowl. Amazing!

    One other interesting stat. Revis was ranked 1st among all NFL CB's in 2009 for both adjusted yards/play and adjusted success rate. Talib was ranked 31st and 53rd respectively. Talib is ascending in ranking, Revis is going the other way.

    I don't know how the personal side of Talib's life is going to work out longer-term, and I really hope and pray it improves markedly, but this is a very talented corner. BB knows how to trade, I have to say.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    Well let's get real here....

    Madden ratings

    Talib 88

    Revis 99

    Cromartie 90

    Samuel 89

    Finnegan 92

    McCorty 86

    While nobody compares to Revis, Certainly Talib is in the upper class, better then the Pats best CB so this most certainly is a big move by the Pats especially since they missed out on getting Samuel and Finnegan.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    good find neinmd, I am certainly hoping this move works out!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    Truly, I don't see any downside to this acquisition.  CB play has been really spotty at best last year and this and Talib brings talent to the table.  Pats gave up a 2013 4th rounder and get Talib and a 2013 7th in return.  Pats will be drafting late in each round, TB early or mid (at best). 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    Nice thread - I think it shows two things..one, that McCourty and our pass defense/defense overall is really lacking and two, that Talib can play.

    FRom the little I've seen of Talib...he is fast, big and smooth. He can jump routes and his frame (arms, shoulder width) is bigger than anything we have in our secondary. I have no idea if he'll workout here or is not a complete nut job, but I think it's worth a 4th rounder to find out.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    I'm no scout, but live in the Tampa area so I'll never get back those hours I've spent watching Buccaneer football.  I've also listened to the talk shows and read the papers. None of this qualifies my view of Talib as anything but a fan's perspective, but here it is anyway...

    Talib plays hard most of the time, doesn't always play smart (takes bad angles, makes strange decisions, commits awful penalties and can be overly emotional) and sometimes just seems to lose focus.  When he's at his best, he is a shutdown corner. The weird thing is he can take a top flight receiver out of the game completely one week and then be beaten regularly by a lesser player the next.   

    He has very good hands and is a ballhawk, and he can take it to the house.  His game reminds me an awful lot of Cromartie. A supreme athlete but mentally questionable.  He has always covered the best receiver on the field and short of maybe Revis at his best, every CB in the league is going to get beat by those guys once in a while.  

    Ultimately, not too many Buc fans are sad to see him go.  Everybody recognizes the talent, but between the inconsistency and the off-field lunacy, he's very high maintenance.  A hard guy to root for.  

    Off the field, it's well documented, he's world class dumb. Like Forrest Gump with a mean streak.  At least he has been, maybe he can change. Personally my view is people don't change very often.  If any coach can get him to clean up his act, it would seem to be this one.  But we'll see... 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    BB believes in role players for each position, and if nothing else, BB wants to stop the run.  "Three things can happen when you put the ball in the air, and two of them aren't good."  Actually, make that four or five things.  Your quarterback can get sacked and lose the football, and the opponent can pick up the ball and run it into the end zone.  Even if your quarterback doesn't get sacked he can get hit as he releases the ball.  Then he can hit the ground hard and bruise his ribs.  Then he can get gun shy.  Or, he can get a mild concussion, enough to affect his thinking on the next 50 plays.  So, whenever possible, keep the running play or at least screen passes and short slants in your own offense, and let the opponent's offense favor the short pass.  But stop the run.

    Talib weighs 205 pounds, is 6 foot 1 and fills a huge hole in the roster as a run-stopping cover corner who can intercept the football (18 career interceptions).  If a team has two or three short, speed burner wide receivers and a quarterback who loves to throw, I suspect that Talib could come off the field for a game.  That's not going to happen often in the NFL.  More likely, Talib gets to cover the opponent's tall and strong wideout, and he has to set the edge on running plays to his side.

    He'll do good.  He won't be mentioned so much, and that's good.  The defense will get mentioned.  Chandler Jones and Ninkovich will get mentioned.

     "Talib seems to be a guy who plays hard most of the time, doesn't always play smart (takes bad angles, makes strange decisions, commits awful penalties and can be overly emotional) and sometimes just seems to lose focus."  Actually, this would have scared me off.  He could be dinged.  He could be an Ochocinco.  It takes BB a fourth round pick to find out.  My advice to Boyer is to keep things dead simple for him, flat vanilla.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from threejak. Show threejak's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    No suspense here really I wouldn't think. Give 'em the base coverage shemes, suit 'em up and let 'em practice for a few days.  No doubt coaching staff has seen him on film and as far as the disruptive stuff goes kinda doubt even a hint of that would be tolerated for  a nanosecond.

    If all the ink is right on the kid, he as an enormous opportunity to really make something  out of of his young stormy career in an organiszation that is unlike any other in the NFL and likes to play in Super Bowls.

    Seems pretty simple to me for this year anyway.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm no scout, but live in the Tampa area so I'll never get back those hours I've spent watching Buccaneer football.  I've also listened to the talk shows and read the papers. None of this qualifies my view of Talib as anything but a fan's perspective, but here it is anyway...

    Talib plays hard most of the time, doesn't always play smart (takes bad angles, makes strange decisions, commits awful penalties and can be overly emotional) and sometimes just seems to lose focus.  When he's at his best, he is a shutdown corner. The weird thing is he can take a top flight receiver out of the game completely one week and then be beaten regularly by a lesser player the next.   

    He has very good hands and is a ballhawk, and he can take it to the house.  His game reminds me an awful lot of Cromartie. A supreme athlete but mentally questionable.  He has always covered the best receiver on the field and short of maybe Revis at his best, every CB in the league is going to get beat by those guys once in a while.  

    Ultimately, not too many Buc fans are sad to see him go.  Everybody recognizes the talent, but between the inconsistency and the off-field lunacy, he's very high maintenance.  A hard guy to root for.  

    Off the field, it's well documented, he's world class dumb. Like Forrest Gump with a mean streak.  At least he has been, maybe he can change. Personally my view is people don't change very often.  If any coach can get him to clean up his act, it would seem to be this one.  But we'll see... 

    [/QUOTE]

    Good, a guy that has seen him play regularly. Let me ask you this - is he going to help us? To me he is by far the best player in our secondary without even knowing our "playbook". 

    Compared to what we've become accustomed to in our secondary I imagine taking some bad angles and risks is nothing compared to letting people run right past you for wide open touchdowns. I can not ever recall our secondary being so poor than it is right now. Even the games where they "play well" I think it is more to do with missed oppurtunity by their quarterback than anything WE did. That game against the Cardinals that was put on the shoulders of Tom this year had many hidden factors in it....there were guys wide open all over the field during that game. It's been like that virtually every weeek - spaces in zone coverage large enough to fly air planes through.     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Good, a guy that has seen him play regularly. Let me ask you this - is he going to help us? To me he is by far the best player in our secondary without even knowing our "playbook". 

    Compared to what we've become accustomed to in our secondary I imagine taking some bad angles and risks is nothing compared to letting people run right past you for wide open touchdowns. I can not ever recall our secondary being so poor than it is right now. Even the games where they "play well" I think it is more to do with missed oppurtunity by their quarterback than anything WE did. That game against the Cardinals that was put on the shoulders of Tom this year had many hidden factors in it....there were guys wide open all over the field during that game. It's been like that virtually every weeek - spaces in zone coverage large enough to fly air planes through.     

    [/QUOTE]

    Unfortunately, the answer is not cut and dried and it starts with "if."  IF he is focused, he is BY FAR the best CB in New England since Ty Law.  But think of McCourty for a minute, how did he look in year 1 vs. year 2?  Like a different player right?  This guy is capable of that game to game or even half to half.  

    He is a supreme talent, but he's maddeningly inconsistent.  I don't know how much of that is coaching and how much is of his own making.  If (that word again) he matures and harnesses his ability, he's as good as anybody in the game.  If he doesn't, he will remain an enigma.

    He has also had a hard time staying on the field. He's had some injuries and suspensions. I don't know how many games he's missed, but my recollection is they've gone without him quite a bit.  Probably why they ultimately decided they could do without him.  

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm no scout, but live in the Tampa area so I'll never get back those hours I've spent watching Buccaneer football.  I've also listened to the talk shows and read the papers. None of this qualifies my view of Talib as anything but a fan's perspective, but here it is anyway...

    Talib plays hard most of the time, doesn't always play smart (takes bad angles, makes strange decisions, commits awful penalties and can be overly emotional) and sometimes just seems to lose focus.  When he's at his best, he is a shutdown corner. The weird thing is he can take a top flight receiver out of the game completely one week and then be beaten regularly by a lesser player the next.   

    He has very good hands and is a ballhawk, and he can take it to the house.  His game reminds me an awful lot of Cromartie. A supreme athlete but mentally questionable.  He has always covered the best receiver on the field and short of maybe Revis at his best, every CB in the league is going to get beat by those guys once in a while.  

    Ultimately, not too many Buc fans are sad to see him go.  Everybody recognizes the talent, but between the inconsistency and the off-field lunacy, he's very high maintenance.  A hard guy to root for.  

    Off the field, it's well documented, he's world class dumb. Like Forrest Gump with a mean streak.  At least he has been, maybe he can change. Personally my view is people don't change very often.  If any coach can get him to clean up his act, it would seem to be this one.  But we'll see... 

    [/QUOTE]


    This is good feedback. Stats can only take you so far; ultimately you have to see this kid in action. If the difference between being an OK cover guy and a shut-down corner is focus, then I think he came to the right team and coach. Is there is anyone in the business more focused on getting everyone to "just do your job" than Bill? Hopefully, that rubs off on this guy. But at least we don't have to deal with more fundamental issues like lack of cover speed, tight hips, lack of a ball-hawking killer instinct, or being prone to injury. Those issues are much harder to coach around.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm no scout, but live in the Tampa area so I'll never get back those hours I've spent watching Buccaneer football.  I've also listened to the talk shows and read the papers. None of this qualifies my view of Talib as anything but a fan's perspective, but here it is anyway...

    Talib plays hard most of the time, doesn't always play smart (takes bad angles, makes strange decisions, commits awful penalties and can be overly emotional) and sometimes just seems to lose focus.  When he's at his best, he is a shutdown corner. The weird thing is he can take a top flight receiver out of the game completely one week and then be beaten regularly by a lesser player the next.   

    He has very good hands and is a ballhawk, and he can take it to the house.  His game reminds me an awful lot of Cromartie. A supreme athlete but mentally questionable.  He has always covered the best receiver on the field and short of maybe Revis at his best, every CB in the league is going to get beat by those guys once in a while.  

    Ultimately, not too many Buc fans are sad to see him go.  Everybody recognizes the talent, but between the inconsistency and the off-field lunacy, he's very high maintenance.  A hard guy to root for.  

    Off the field, it's well documented, he's world class dumb. Like Forrest Gump with a mean streak.  At least he has been, maybe he can change. Personally my view is people don't change very often.  If any coach can get him to clean up his act, it would seem to be this one.  But we'll see... 

    [/QUOTE]

    Good, a guy that has seen him play regularly. Let me ask you this - is he going to help us? To me he is by far the best player in our secondary without even knowing our "playbook". 

    Compared to what we've become accustomed to in our secondary I imagine taking some bad angles and risks is nothing compared to letting people run right past you for wide open touchdowns. I can not ever recall our secondary being so poor than it is right now. Even the games where they "play well" I think it is more to do with missed oppurtunity by their quarterback than anything WE did. That game against the Cardinals that was put on the shoulders of Tom this year had many hidden factors in it....there were guys wide open all over the field during that game. It's been like that virtually every weeek - spaces in zone coverage large enough to fly air planes through.     

    [/QUOTE]

    exactly.

    hes a press shut down guy. tampa didnt rn that so it didnt utilize his skills much. as opposed if he had played for the jets. we have started to run a little more man, and have looked better for it. if bb changes a littlle (he is so conservative) ad runs more man with dennard and talib, this do improves greatly in my mind.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm no scout, but live in the Tampa area so I'll never get back those hours I've spent watching Buccaneer football.  I've also listened to the talk shows and read the papers. None of this qualifies my view of Talib as anything but a fan's perspective, but here it is anyway...

    Talib plays hard most of the time, doesn't always play smart (takes bad angles, makes strange decisions, commits awful penalties and can be overly emotional) and sometimes just seems to lose focus.  When he's at his best, he is a shutdown corner. The weird thing is he can take a top flight receiver out of the game completely one week and then be beaten regularly by a lesser player the next.   

    He has very good hands and is a ballhawk, and he can take it to the house.  His game reminds me an awful lot of Cromartie. A supreme athlete but mentally questionable.  He has always covered the best receiver on the field and short of maybe Revis at his best, every CB in the league is going to get beat by those guys once in a while.  

    Ultimately, not too many Buc fans are sad to see him go.  Everybody recognizes the talent, but between the inconsistency and the off-field lunacy, he's very high maintenance.  A hard guy to root for.  

    Off the field, it's well documented, he's world class dumb. Like Forrest Gump with a mean streak.  At least he has been, maybe he can change. Personally my view is people don't change very often.  If any coach can get him to clean up his act, it would seem to be this one.  But we'll see... 

    [/QUOTE]


    Just an incredible line, one I'll never forget! The whole review was good, but that made it memorable. Thanks!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    In response to neinmd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Check out Football Outsiders' assessment of Aqib Talib in the following link:

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/17017/aqib-talib

    Comparing their bottom-line assessment against Darrelle Revis and Devin McCourty in adjusted charting stats for 2011:

    Adjusted success % (% of unsuccessful offensive plays against):

    Revis - 62%, ranked 11

    McCourty - 46%, ranked 65

    Talib - 64%, ranked 6

    Adjusted yards/play:

    Revis - 5.5, ranked 8

    McCourty - 10.6, ranked 78

    Talib - 5.5, ranked 9

    Revis is better than Talib on pass defense, Talib is better than Revis on run defense. But overall Talib is in pretty select company statistically. McCourty, our supposed #1 CB in 2011, had an awful year last year and the Pats still made it to the SuperBowl. Amazing!

    One other interesting stat. Revis was ranked 1st among all NFL CB's in 2009 for both adjusted yards/play and adjusted success rate. Talib was ranked 31st and 53rd respectively. Talib is ascending in ranking, Revis is going the other way.

    I don't know how the personal side of Talib's life is going to work out longer-term, and I really hope and pray it improves markedly, but this is a very talented corner. BB knows how to trade, I have to say.

    [/QUOTE]


    Revis was ranked number 1...he can only go down. Revis now (when healthy) is still way better than Talib.

     

    Don't really understand the stat. But to my knowledge, Talib got smoked by the Giants in week 2.

    I have my expectations for Talib tempered. He's still our best cb, as long as he doesn't stink like the cbs the last two seasons ill be content.

    That being said, he's a big cb. If he plays extremely well, which would be exceeding my expectations, then that's a game changer.

     

    I think physical play is more allowed in the playoffs. Top of his game, Talib can probably beat up on a team's number 1 WR. If he can do that in the playoffs against Antonio Brown, Demaryius Thomas, Andre Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Reggie Wayne or whoever...then it will be an extremely big disappointment if this team does not make the super bowl

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    In response to dapats1281's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to neinmd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Check out Football Outsiders' assessment of Aqib Talib in the following link:

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/17017/aqib-talib

    Comparing their bottom-line assessment against Darrelle Revis and Devin McCourty in adjusted charting stats for 2011:

    Adjusted success % (% of unsuccessful offensive plays against):

    Revis - 62%, ranked 11

    McCourty - 46%, ranked 65

    Talib - 64%, ranked 6

    Adjusted yards/play:

    Revis - 5.5, ranked 8

    McCourty - 10.6, ranked 78

    Talib - 5.5, ranked 9

    Revis is better than Talib on pass defense, Talib is better than Revis on run defense. But overall Talib is in pretty select company statistically. McCourty, our supposed #1 CB in 2011, had an awful year last year and the Pats still made it to the SuperBowl. Amazing!

    One other interesting stat. Revis was ranked 1st among all NFL CB's in 2009 for both adjusted yards/play and adjusted success rate. Talib was ranked 31st and 53rd respectively. Talib is ascending in ranking, Revis is going the other way.

    I don't know how the personal side of Talib's life is going to work out longer-term, and I really hope and pray it improves markedly, but this is a very talented corner. BB knows how to trade, I have to say.

    [/QUOTE]


    Revis was ranked number 1...he can only go down. Revis now (when healthy) is still way better than Talib.

     

    Don't really understand the stat. But to my knowledge, Talib got smoked by the Giants in week 2.

    I have my expectations for Talib tempered. He's still our best cb, as long as he doesn't stink like the cbs the last two seasons ill be content.

    That being said, he's a big cb. If he plays extremely well, which would be exceeding my expectations, then that's a game changer.

     

    I think physical play is more allowed in the playoffs. Top of his game, Talib can probably beat up on a team's number 1 WR. If he can do that in the playoffs against Antonio Brown, Demaryius Thomas, Andre Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Reggie Wayne or whoever...then it will be an extremely big disappointment if this team does not make the super bowl

    [/QUOTE]

    lombardi says bb will have talib on the #2 and have the other corner and mccourty (the deep safety) cover over the top. i wouldnt like that. dennard isnt tall andhes a rook npt ready to cover top wr's. mccourty overing deep wont affect the#1 from being open much of the day. id put talib on the #1 and if the #1 is that good and he needs help give him some. play press man and tell dennard and talib not to let their man get a free route off the line, which they usually do, which hurts us so much.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    There is no doubt that he is an extremely athletic and talented CB.  I suspect that he will stay out of trouble for this season, and become the key contributor to the pass D, and maybe the piece to get us back to the SB...but I doubt that he can change his lifestyle, especially during the off season or long term, so I see him as a short term solution only.  If the pass D continues to stink with Aquib, we got to look at changing the pass D coaching and fundamental schemes.  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    In response to Eldunker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There is no doubt that he is an extremely athletic and talented CB.  I suspect that he will stay out of trouble for this season, and become the key contributor to the pass D, and maybe the piece to get us back to the SB...but I doubt that he can change his lifestyle, especially during the off season or long term, so I see him as a short term solution only.  If the pass D continues to stink with Aquib, we got to look at changing the pass D coaching and fundamental schemes.  

    [/QUOTE]

    seeign as we usually dont play press man, it woul dbe changing up our scheme dramatically if we use it more.

    re offseaosn, if we plan to keep him, it woudl be wise to do as tampa did and mandate that he live in new england. that seemed to work wonders for him in tampa (he no longer got into trouble (addderall aside).

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from tenace4life. Show tenace4life's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    I do not care if he is one and done . . . as long as he brings us the Super Bowl this year!

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macrawn. Show Macrawn's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    BB can't seem to draft a decent corner so instead of dropping another high round pick on another bust, I think giving up a 4th round for a this guy is worth it. I figure the Pats would waste a pick on a corner anyway and I give Talib better odds of working out over any corner BB drafts. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macrawn. Show Macrawn's posts

    Re: Rating Aqib Talib's CB performance

    BB can't seem to draft a decent corner so instead of dropping another high round pick on another bust, I think giving up a 4th round for a this guy is worth it. I figure the Pats would waste a pick on a corner anyway and I give Talib better odds of working out over any corner BB drafts. 

     
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