Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

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    Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

         Spare me! I've already chucked up lunch twice over the Ray Lewis love feast, now that the big slop has announced his retirement. This is, of course, a strategically planned motivational ploy by him, hoping to elevate himself and his dirty bird teammates to a SB. Hopefully, he and his Buzzards will be eliminated sooner than later, to spare us having to listen to endless hours of talking head discussions about how wonderful, lovable ol' Ray Ray is...and how he is the greatest defender and leader in NFL history: http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/62536/ray-lewis-greatest-defensive-player-ever

         The above article by Jamison Hemsley shows that he knows as much about football as the late Sherman Hemsley, a/k/a George Jefferson. Really...Ray Lewis...the greatest defensive player ever? Let me set my own personal dislike aside for this overrated thug, who portrays himself as a cross between the Reverend Ike and Mike Singletary...and try to be objective. Here are my top 5 defenders:

    1.) OLB Lawrence Taylor: No one else is even close. You may hate what he's done off the field, but on the field, he was an absolute terror. Revolutionized the LB position...and has influenced defensive skemes, to this day. Everyone looks for "the next LT"...that fierce blind-side pass-rusher who could totally ruin any offensive attack. He was the real deal...the original "LT"...not that cry-baby RB, who finished his championship-less career with the Jests;

    2.) DE Reggie White: The "Minister of Defense". Unstoppable force as a DE.

    3.) MLB Dick Butkus: Not only is Ray Lewis not the greatest defender of all-time, but he wasn't even the greatest MLB of all-time. For those of you who never got to see him play, watch the two minute highlight film that the NFL has on him. You'll see all you need to know. Imagine a bigger, faster, full tilt/full time Tedy Bruschi...with a junk yard dog mean steak...and you have Butkus;

    4.) DE David "Deacon" Jones: Grossly underrated player. A bigger version of Dwight Freeney, with a mile wide mean streak. If sack stats were kept when The Deacon played, he might have the all-time sack record;

    5a.) DE Doug Atkins: Going back a few years...but this guy was both dominant, and feared. A menace, at 6'8", 275 lbs. Played most of his career with the Chicago Bears. Imagine J.J. Watt stringing together 10 straight seasons, like the one he's had this season. That describes Atkins' career: http://www.chicagobears.com/tradition/bears-in-the-hall/doug-atkins.html

    5b.) CB Deion Sanders: Look up the definition of a shut-down CB, and you'll see Deion's photo. Teams simply could not, and would not, throw to his side of the field. Though his critics would say that he couldn't tackle...he could cover, like white on rice. Was also the greatest punt returner, and most dangerous man on an interception return that I've ever seen.           

        

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    I love your Top 5.  LT #1 for sure.  I'd find a way to slide Derrick Thomas in there just because he was so fun to watch.  As for Ray, probably the #1 murderer in NFL history.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from NESportnut. Show NESportnut's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    The title forgot the last part,...'to commit murder and get away with it' This, I can agree with.........

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    Pat I agree w/ those 1st three. Ray has always had the benefit of playing behind some pretty solid D-linemen.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MichFan. Show MichFan's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    I did not like the murdering thug one bit but he was a hell of a football player.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    Nice big Daddy reference Rock. Ever read Alex Karras' Even Big Guys Cry"....discusses Big Daddy and Night Train Lane ( a great defender in his own right)quite a bit.

    I look at this as a positional discussion. As in LT was an DE/OLB and White was a DE. Lewis was an ILB/MLB. LT in pursuit was unreal, no one was as fast at the time. Reed definitely up there with Lott. In a similar vein, I would put Lewis in that Lambert, Nietkche, Singletary catergory. I don't know that I'd put him ahead of Butkas. Lewis would probably make top 5 ILB/MLBs. And he's definitely one of best defensive players of the last decade or so.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking1. Show harleyroadking1's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    you could add Ronnie Lott to that list he put the F in fear for receivers ....and the guy chopped off his finger to play.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    The only thing Ray 'the murderer" Lewis is #1 in is trying to hog the spotlight with his dang dirty bird dance before any big game. He is a selfish, murdering individualist and not a team player.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

         From murderer to NFL Hall of Famer, to respected ESPN talking head. Geez: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110526113437AAj7DAN; and http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2013-01-02/ray-lewis-retire-murder-charge-trial-hall-of-fame-ravens-lb-retirement

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    Tex..  in your corner about the "over the top" love fest for Lewis with his retiring.  Other than a motiviational influence this weekend for the Ravens what he can add on the field is a mystery.  He hasn't played since October.  Granted, defense is simply run at full speed and tackle, but, is he game ready?  He will actually replace a player or two in the lineup who are performing well right now in the hopes he still has the spark.  As for greatest, he may be in the conversation, but, there are other defenders who "changed the game" versus Lewis' ability to impact a game with his skills.  The greatest redefine a position and all Lewis did is come after the best to do the same thing at a high level.  Not the "next LT", but someone who played like him, right?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    Yeah, he is a thug and accomplice to crime etc. 

    I won't pretend that he isn't part of that conversation. 

    He was all over the field like no other ILB before. I would consider him analogous to a modern day Butkus ... or perhaps better. He played in a era so distant from Butkus'. I mean really, Butkus could tackle a WR before the ball got there and claim the INT.  

    Also, the elite inside linebackers are the QBs of the defense. They do so much more than a simple DE. When they change the game physically at the level Butkus and Lewis did, you have to add points for how they coordinated the defense as well. 

    I like the nod for Deion Sanders who was the best cover corner I've ever seen play, in an era where you couldn't just mug WRs.

    But I would rate Rod Woodson, myself, over Sanders. He just played all over the field. Played two positions.  And he will never come close to Woodson's 32 career FR, an NFL record. Twice as many tackles. 13.5 sacks as a CB(!).

    Ed Reed too. If Ed Reed equals his INTs he won't be able to claim to having done it at CB as well. He won't come close to his tackles numbers. He won't come close to his sack numbers. OR his FF/FR numbers. 

    Rod Woodson was all over the field constantly making plays like no other DB I've seen, the closest being Lott. Although they are practically equal in my book because Lott was definitely he most indtimidating character ever. 

    I dismiss old school DBs out of hand because their job was a cakewalk compared to modern defenders. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    Agree with you ZB. I might add that the 14INTs will not be broken primarily because of the current rules, even though teams pass much more. I mean if some player broke it, it would be a big deal because of how staunchly the rules are applied today.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dustcover. Show dustcover's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    Looking at middle linebackers and what they contributed, don't overlook Sam Huff.  Just ask Jim Brown!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    I would agree with LT as #1 and Reggie White as #2.

    But I would put Ray Lewis in the top five. He was downright fearsome at his very best, but he was also very good for a very long time.  Only a handful of guys have played that physically for 15 years. Won't be surprised if Lewis' body is horribly broken down by his mid 40's.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Tex..  in your corner about the "over the top" love fest for Lewis with his retiring.  Other than a motiviational influence this weekend for the Ravens what he can add on the field is a mystery.  He hasn't played since October.  Granted, defense is simply run at full speed and tackle, but, is he game ready?  He will actually replace a player or two in the lineup who are performing well right now in the hopes he still has the spark.  As for greatest, he may be in the conversation, but, there are other defenders who "changed the game" versus Lewis' ability to impact a game with his skills.  The greatest redefine a position and all Lewis did is come after the best to do the same thing at a high level.  Not the "next LT", but someone who played like him, right?

    [/QUOTE]

         No. Lewis is nothing like LT was, as a player. LT was an OLB. Taylor was a pass rusher extraordinaire, who could also cover, and set the edge against the run. Lewis is a MLB...a throw-back to the great MLBs of yesteryear, such as Dick Butkus, Ray Nitschke, and Mike Singletary. Though not as good as Butkus, he's in the conversation about great MLBs.   

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    In response to NY-PATS-FAN4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would agree with LT as #1 and Reggie White as #2.

    But I would put Ray Lewis in the top five. He was downright fearsome at his very best, but he was also very good for a very long time.  Only a handful of guys have played that physically for 15 years. Won't be surprised if Lewis' body is horribly broken down by his mid 40's.

    [/QUOTE]

         I don't think Lewis was as good as Butkus. Lewis was surrounded by better talent, than those mediocre Bear teams that Butkus played on. Butkus never got "protected" the way Lewis did in Baltimore. The Ravens drafted Haloti Nagata primarily to keep OL off of Lewis. 

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yeah, he is a thug and accomplice to crime etc. 

    I won't pretend that he isn't part of that conversation. 

    He was all over the field like no other ILB before. I would consider him analogous to a modern day Butkus ... or perhaps better. He played in a era so distant from Butkus'. I mean really, Butkus could tackle a WR before the ball got there and claim the INT.

    RESPONSE: Stop it. The Polian passing rules didn't take affect until 2004. Ray Ray had his best years prior to that.    

    Also, the elite inside linebackers are the QBs of the defense. They do so much more than a simple DE. When they change the game physically at the level Butkus and Lewis did, you have to add points for how they coordinated the defense as well. 

    RESPONSE: A "simple DE"?? A great DE is the most valuable defensive commodity that a team can have, these days. Look at J.J. Watt! I took Jones and Atkins high because, as great as they were in their day, they would be even more valuable today. Rushing the passer has become the primary way to stop the elite passing attacks in todays' game.      

    Butkus was the QB of the Bears' "D" , too. Granted that offenses are more complicated now than when Butkus played. The game was more physical...3 yards and a cloud of dust, in his era. Also, medical techniques aren't what they are now. Butkus played much of his career with a bad knee. The injury would eventually force him into early retirement. Modern medical care would no doubt have extended his career, and could have, and likely would have allowed him to be even better than he was.

    I like the nod for Deion Sanders who was the best cover corner I've ever seen play, in an era where you couldn't just mug WRs.

    RESPONSE: Agreed...best CB I've ever seen.

    But I would rate Rod Woodson, myself, over Sanders. He just played all over the field. Played two positions.  And he will never come close to Woodson's 32 career FR, an NFL record. Twice as many tackles. 13.5 sacks as a CB(!).

    RESPONSE: I'd take Sanders any day of the week. Woodson played on some great defensive teams. Sanders helped Dallas to two titles...then switched teams to SF, tilting the balance of power in the NFC to the 49ers. 

    Ed Reed too. If Ed Reed equals his INTs he won't be able to claim to having done it at CB as well. He won't come close to his tackles numbers. He won't come close to his sack numbers. OR his FF/FR numbers.

    RESPONSE: Great player. But, I took Deion because he literally took half the field away from a QB.

    Rod Woodson was all over the field constantly making plays like no other DB I've seen, the closest being Lott. Although they are practically equal in my book because Lott was definitely he most indtimidating character ever. 

    I dismiss old school DBs out of hand because their job was a cakewalk compared to modern defenders.

    RESPONSE: I tend to agree. 

    [/QUOTE]


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    i dont like to compare guys from the 60's to guys today. Butkis wouldnt even make an nfl roster if he was in his prime today. whats he run a 6 second 40? The Packers had a guard that was 178 pounds. People here don't like Ray Lewis and most think he killed someone but I think he may be the best to  every play MLB. I also am not convinced he killed anyone. OJ yes but Ray I'm not so sure of. I'll get slammed for this but its my honest opinion.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    In response to sporter81's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i dont like to compare guys from the 60's to guys today. Butkis wouldnt even make an nfl roster if he was in his prime today. whats he run a 6 second 40?

    RESPOBNSE: Surely you jest...LOL!! Yeah...and Brandon Spikes is too slow to play in the league. 

    The Packers had a guard that was 178 pounds. People here don't like Ray Lewis and most think he killed someone but I think he may be the best to every play MLB.

    RESPONSe: The question is whether he's the greatest defender of all time. Is that your opinion? 

    I also am not convinced he killed anyone. OJ yes but Ray I'm not so sure of. I'll get slammed for this but its my honest opinion.

    RESPONSE: Ray was the original murderer who skated. OJ was #2.

    [/QUOTE]


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    In response to sporter81's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i dont like to compare guys from the 60's to guys today. Butkis wouldnt even make an nfl roster if he was in his prime today. whats he run a 6 second 40? The Packers had a guard that was 178 pounds. People here don't like Ray Lewis and most think he killed someone but I think he may be the best to  every play MLB. I also am not convinced he killed anyone. OJ yes but Ray I'm not so sure of. I'll get slammed for this but its my honest opinion.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think we can compare players of different eras to one another. Only to similar players in era, and based on the specifics of the day. I think Lewis was equally as feared and productive as Butkus. I can't think off another MLB I would want in their prime more than Lewis. He changes games and influences his team as much as any player in history . Yrs, there are different leadership styles, but there is no denying that his mental impact on his team is tangible when he is on the field 

    agree on Deion, white, reed and Woodson..all special players...there isn't anyone in my mind that has come close to LT. 

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Ray Lewis the Greatest Defender Ever??

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

         Spare me! I've already chucked up lunch twice over the Ray Lewis love feast, now that the big slop has announced his retirement. This is, of course, a strategically planned motivational ploy by him, hoping to elevate himself and his dirty bird teammates to a SB. Hopefully, he and his Buzzards will be eliminated sooner than later, to spare us having to listen to endless hours of talking head discussions about how wonderful, lovable ol' Ray Ray is...and how he is the greatest defender and leader in NFL history: http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/62536/ray-lewis-greatest-defensive-player-ever

         The above article by Jamison Hemsley shows that he knows as much about football as the late Sherman Hemsley, a/k/a George Jefferson. Really...Ray Lewis...the greatest defensive player ever? Let me set my own personal dislike aside for this overrated thug, who portrays himself as a cross between the Reverend Ike and Mike Singletary...and try to be objective. Here are my top 5 defenders:

    1.) OLB Lawrence Taylor: No one else is even close. You may hate what he's done off the field, but on the field, he was an absolute terror. Revolutionized the LB position...and has influenced defensive skemes, to this day. Everyone looks for "the next LT"...that fierce blind-side pass-rusher who could totally ruin any offensive attack. He was the real deal...the original "LT"...not that cry-baby RB, who finished his championship-less career with the Jests;

    2.) DE Reggie White: The "Minister of Defense". Unstoppable force as a DE.

    3.) MLB Dick Butkus: Not only is Ray Lewis not the greatest defender of all-time, but he wasn't even the greatest MLB of all-time. For those of you who never got to see him play, watch the two minute highlight film that the NFL has on him. You'll see all you need to know. Imagine a bigger, faster, full tilt/full time Tedy Bruschi...with a junk yard dog mean steak...and you have Butkus;

    4.) DE David "Deacon" Jones: Grossly underrated player. A bigger version of Dwight Freeney, with a mile wide mean streak. If sack stats were kept when The Deacon played, he might have the all-time sack record;

    5a.) DE Doug Atkins: Going back a few years...but this guy was both dominant, and feared. A menace, at 6'8", 275 lbs. Played most of his career with the Chicago Bears. Imagine J.J. Watt stringing together 10 straight seasons, like the one he's had this season. That describes Atkins' career: http://www.chicagobears.com/tradition/bears-in-the-hall/doug-atkins.html

    5b.) CB Deion Sanders: Look up the definition of a shut-down CB, and you'll see Deion's photo. Teams simply could not, and would not, throw to his side of the field. Though his critics would say that he couldn't tackle...he could cover, like white on rice. Was also the greatest punt returner, and most dangerous man on an interception return that I've ever seen.           

        

    [/QUOTE]

    ALL exceptional picks and hard to say no to. But you do not have any safeties listed!

    How about Ken Houston or Willie Wood or Ronnie Lott or Rodney Harrison or Troy Polamalu or... who do you like?

     

    And no DTs!!!! How about Bob Lilly or Merlon Olsen or Alan Page (who also played DE as well) or Joe Greene or Randy WHite?... who do you like...

     

     
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