RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

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    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    The notion of the following formation is extremely intriguing to me:

    5 Olinemen

    1 QB

    1 Standard Big TE-Hoomanawanui/Gronkowski

    1 BIG Runningback-5'11-6'1-235-245lbs-Ridley/Bush

    1 Hybrid or "Move" WR/TE-6'3 230lbish-LaFell

    2 Hybrid Possession/Slot Cross WRs-5'10/5'11/6'0 195lbs-205lbs-Amendola/Edelman/even Vareen

    That's scary...

    You could show Big...Real Big with that standard TE + WR/TE + BIG RB + 5 OL- Then kill them with an Intermediate passing game IF they crowd up too close w/ the following eligibles- 2 Troy Brownish WRs Amendola/Edelman...  1 Big TE with good hands...  1 WR/TE-LaFell...  and 1 BIG RB to pass-block or swing out in to the flat...  This should exploit a Base Big Defense...no issue.  No deep, but ya wouldn't need it, w/ every guy a threat to go intermediate, ya couldn't crowd the LOS too close...1 would get behind ya.

    OR...If they went sub package and NE was showing their 2 small intermediate route possession/slot hybrid crosses split wide, and w/ that WR/TE split wide, and w/ Gronk in an up stance...  Showing pass ALL day, you'd NEED a sub package, and/or to keep your Secondary guys back <5 Olinemen, and Brady probably in shotgun w/ that lone monster back>.  You could CRUSH that limited Front D look, by handing off to that Big monster w/ solely 3 or 4 DL and all the LBs set back and your Secondary all looking and being tasked w/ that NE split WR game.

    It'd be weird...very intriguing.  Brady could sit back in shotgun all day long and look Multiple Receiver set-up Pass and Crush it w/ the run on an open D all day long.  Brady could be under center and the O scheme could look BIG, w/ Gronk on the LOS and Lafell in close, and maybe even 1 of the 2 Hybrid Slot/Possession WRs in motion towards the LOS (or just that TE/WR guy), giving a 7 guy blocking scare in real close (+ a monster back) and Brady could simply play-action (or not even waste his time)....Fade back and crush that D in close and on their toes w/ that 2 Intermediate small possession guys, 1 good hands Big TE, 1 WR/TE cross, and that Big RB a scare for the quick release after stayin' in for that blocking help for a second, prior to swinging out in to the flat for the swing pass. 

     
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    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    In response to LazarusintheSanatorium's comment:

    The notion of the following formation is extremely intriguing to me:

    5 Olinemen

    1 QB

    1 Standard Big TE-Hoomanawanui/Gronkowski

    1 BIG Runningback-5'11-6'1-235-245lbs-Ridley/Bush

    1 Hybrid or "Move" WR/TE-6'3 230lbish-LaFell

    2 Hybrid Possession/Slot Cross WRs-5'10/5'11/6'0 195lbs-205lbs-Amendola/Edelman/even Vareen

    That's scary...

    You could show Big...Real Big with that standard TE + WR/TE + BIG RB + 5 OL- Then kill them with an Intermediate passing game IF they crowd up too close w/ the following eligibles- 2 Troy Brownish WRs Amendola/Edelman...  1 Big TE with good hands...  1 WR/TE-LaFell...  and 1 BIG RB to pass-block or swing out in to the flat...  This should exploit a Base Big Defense...no issue.  No deep, but ya wouldn't need it, w/ every guy a threat to go intermediate, ya couldn't crowd the LOS too close...1 would get behind ya.

    OR...If they went sub package and NE was showing their 2 small intermediate route possession/slot hybrid crosses split wide, and w/ that WR/TE split wide, and w/ Gronk in an up stance...  Showing pass ALL day, you'd NEED a sub package, and/or to keep your Secondary guys back <5 Olinemen, and Brady probably in shotgun w/ that lone monster back>.  You could CRUSH that limited Front D look, by handing off to that Big monster w/ solely 3 or 4 DL and all the LBs set back and your Secondary all looking and being tasked w/ that NE split WR game.

    It'd be weird...very intriguing.  Brady could sit back in shotgun all day long and look Multiple Receiver set-up Pass and Crush it w/ the run on an open D all day long.  Brady could be under center and the O scheme could look BIG, w/ Gronk on the LOS and Lafell in close, and maybe even 1 of the 2 Hybrid Slot/Possession WRs in motion towards the LOS (or just that TE/WR guy), giving a 7 guy blocking scare in real close (+ a monster back) and Brady could simply play-action (or not even waste his time)....Fade back and crush that D in close and on their toes w/ that 2 Intermediate small possession guys, 1 good hands Big TE, 1 WR/TE cross, and that Big RB a scare for the quick release after stayin' in for that blocking help for a second, prior to swinging out in to the flat for the swing pass. 




    agreed, we should be much more flexible this year if everyone is healthy and  contributing. Im hoping one of the rooks sends Amendola to the bench until 3rd down where he can work the slot. I dont see the need to have Both Eds and Amendola on the field unless its a 4 wide WR set w/2 slots inside. Also, I wouldnt discount Lafell being able to attack deep. He has had his share of big plays w/Newton who isnt exactly a great QB, albeit very talented.

     
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    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    In response to TripleOG's comment:



         Indianapolis wasn't an "awaiting defense" for Blount?? Against Denver, you had an awaiting 335 pound, unblocked NT awaiting him. Who is going to run through that??  

         "We saw what he did vs. awaiting defenses", huh? Other than the AFC title game in Denver, when OC Wendell and both of the Patriots OGs, Mankins and Connelly, couldn't handle Terrence Knighton...what "awaiting defense" stopped him?  



    The only one that matters Tex. Im not impressed with regular season stats vs a crappy division and I dont want you to misundestand. I like Blount and what he brought. I was the one excited and posted about him being the next A.Smith and Vareen being Faulk and them helping us win a SB like in 2003, BUT it Never happened and time is running out and BB opted to go in another direction. Would I have liked Blount to say? Sure but I dont think the loss is detrimental.

    RESPONSE: So...you're blaming the Pats complete inability to run the ball in the AFC Title game on Blount?? How was losing him beneficial to the team, when he is the best RB that they have? By letting Blount walk for pittance, relaively speaking...all the Pats did was create another area of need for themelves, that must be addressed in the draft.

    Until BB gets a Prime time back that he feels should take touches away from Brady, its always gonna be the same.

    RESPONSE: Did you watch the Pats last four games, and the playoff game against Indy? Blount did "take touches away from Brady", bigtime.

    The run will get stuffed early and we go away. Why cant people make the correlation?

    RESPONSE: The run only got stuffed in one game...against Denver. Why?Because the interior of the Pats OL got manhandled by a fat butted, lard bellied NT, that no one could block.

    BB doesnt care for RBs, esp. since he got Brady. He doesnt like wasting plays so expecting BB to "stick with the run" in the playoffs while posessions are wasted?? Its never gonna happen under BB.

    RESPONSE: When was the last time that the Pats won a SB? Answer...when they played better defense, and could run the ball, using Corey Dillon, Kevin Faulk, and Alonzo Highsmith.

    Ive seen enough to know how BB operates. I just feel paying ANY old RB is a waste. If BB can get A.P. things will change. Blount as great as he looked at times was just NOT a hot commodity and that should tell you all you need to know. BB did good just by getting him to lower his pad level and stop hurdling defenders. if not for BB, Blount would be out the league this year.

    RESPONSE: So...you think that Ridley is a better RB than Blount? You think that any RB could have done what Blount did at the end of the regular season, and against Indy? I don't anybody else here, perhaps save Rusty, would agree with you.






Dude your beef is with BB. YOU are the one sounding like Rusty. Taking up beefs online with folks with things that should be brought up to the coach/gm.

I already said I like Blount. How do we correlate who is better between Blount and Ridley??  Numbers wise, it aint even close. Do we measure him based on the coaching up he got from BB or his whole career when he was fumbling more than Ridley in Tampa?

of course im not blaming Blount for not running all over Denver. Im blaming Brady for being a Hall of Fame QB. Please name all the hall of Fame Qbs who handed off to cast off, undrafted guys that get traded for trackstars...I'll wait for you to look it up. You must have an issue reading my posts. I am not telling you it was a great Idea, Im simply telling you WHY it happened. Same as I been telling Rusty for YEARS WHY BB doesnt commit to the run and He never gets it and attacks ME. BB is what he is. We should ALL know his style by now. To raise hell over expected moves is pointless. Its not MY philosphy to Overuse the QB, but I understand it with the way our D has played over the past 6 years.

Cry over Blount all you want but facts are, until BB got him and coached him up he was on his way out the league. Ridley is a star in the making, minus the fumbling. Make a Poll and see what fans think.



     Still awaiting your response to what other "awaiting" defenses were able to stop Blount. As for blaming Brady for the Pats not being able to run the ball in the AFC title game at Denver, you are reversing field, my friend. At first you stated that Blount couldn't run against "awaiting defenses". Now you're saying that Brady the HOF QB took his carries away. The only reason Brady began throwing as often as he did was because Terrence Knighton and the Denver DL dominated the line of scrimmage, and gave Blount no daylight to run through.

     Ridley a "star in the making"?? So...you do think that Ridley is a better RB than Blount. As for Ridley minus the fumbles equals a star, sorry...that's not how it works. A RB who cannot be counted on to protect the ball is a liability.  

 

 
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    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    Stevan Ridley is better than Blount.

    Blount didnt run for 1200 yards 12TDs in any of his seasons in Tampa.

    He fumbles just as much as Ridley. 12 in 4 seasons compared to Ridley's 9 in 3. same pace.

    Get the two huge games out of your mind, they both had the same stats this season and Ridley was running scared half the time.

    Ridley> Blount. This is stupid

     
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    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    So back to the thread topic - that would be Bush...

    I like him. Liked him coming out of college. He is not a game changer but he is also not Bolden. He is roughly 30 pounds bigger than Bolden I think. He can be a short yardage back, goal line back, has decent cathing skills and still has enough overall running talent to step in as a 3 down back if we need him.

    I wanted to keep Blount (who I did not want when we first got him) but Bush would bbe agood and complementary back for this group.

    TO those here who keep putting down Ridley... stop it... he is a good back. YES.. I KNOW... he fumbled a bit... he gets another shot.

    We should start trying to resign RIdley and Vereen for the next 4 years.

     
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    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:



         Indianapolis wasn't an "awaiting defense" for Blount?? Against Denver, you had an awaiting 335 pound, unblocked NT awaiting him. Who is going to run through that??  

         "We saw what he did vs. awaiting defenses", huh? Other than the AFC title game in Denver, when OC Wendell and both of the Patriots OGs, Mankins and Connelly, couldn't handle Terrence Knighton...what "awaiting defense" stopped him?  



    The only one that matters Tex. Im not impressed with regular season stats vs a crappy division and I dont want you to misundestand. I like Blount and what he brought. I was the one excited and posted about him being the next A.Smith and Vareen being Faulk and them helping us win a SB like in 2003, BUT it Never happened and time is running out and BB opted to go in another direction. Would I have liked Blount to say? Sure but I dont think the loss is detrimental.

    RESPONSE: So...you're blaming the Pats complete inability to run the ball in the AFC Title game on Blount?? How was losing him beneficial to the team, when he is the best RB that they have? By letting Blount walk for pittance, relaively speaking...all the Pats did was create another area of need for themelves, that must be addressed in the draft.

    Until BB gets a Prime time back that he feels should take touches away from Brady, its always gonna be the same.

    RESPONSE: Did you watch the Pats last four games, and the playoff game against Indy? Blount did "take touches away from Brady", bigtime.

    The run will get stuffed early and we go away. Why cant people make the correlation?

    RESPONSE: The run only got stuffed in one game...against Denver. Why?Because the interior of the Pats OL got manhandled by a fat butted, lard bellied NT, that no one could block.

    BB doesnt care for RBs, esp. since he got Brady. He doesnt like wasting plays so expecting BB to "stick with the run" in the playoffs while posessions are wasted?? Its never gonna happen under BB.

    RESPONSE: When was the last time that the Pats won a SB? Answer...when they played better defense, and could run the ball, using Corey Dillon, Kevin Faulk, and Alonzo Highsmith.

    Ive seen enough to know how BB operates. I just feel paying ANY old RB is a waste. If BB can get A.P. things will change. Blount as great as he looked at times was just NOT a hot commodity and that should tell you all you need to know. BB did good just by getting him to lower his pad level and stop hurdling defenders. if not for BB, Blount would be out the league this year.

    RESPONSE: So...you think that Ridley is a better RB than Blount? You think that any RB could have done what Blount did at the end of the regular season, and against Indy? I don't anybody else here, perhaps save Rusty, would agree with you.






    Dude your beef is with BB. YOU are the one sounding like Rusty. Taking up beefs online with folks with things that should be brought up to the coach/gm.

    I already said I like Blount. How do we correlate who is better between Blount and Ridley??  Numbers wise, it aint even close. Do we measure him based on the coaching up he got from BB or his whole career when he was fumbling more than Ridley in Tampa?

    of course im not blaming Blount for not running all over Denver. Im blaming Brady for being a Hall of Fame QB. Please name all the hall of Fame Qbs who handed off to cast off, undrafted guys that get traded for trackstars...I'll wait for you to look it up. You must have an issue reading my posts. I am not telling you it was a great Idea, Im simply telling you WHY it happened. Same as I been telling Rusty for YEARS WHY BB doesnt commit to the run and He never gets it and attacks ME. BB is what he is. We should ALL know his style by now. To raise hell over expected moves is pointless. Its not MY philosphy to Overuse the QB, but I understand it with the way our D has played over the past 6 years.

    Cry over Blount all you want but facts are, until BB got him and coached him up he was on his way out the league. Ridley is a star in the making, minus the fumbling. Make a Poll and see what fans think.



  •      Still awaiting your response to what other "awaiting" defenses were able to stop Blount. As for blaming Brady for the Pats not being able to run the ball in the AFC title game at Denver, you are reversing field, my friend. At first you stated that Blount couldn't run against "awaiting defenses". Now you're saying that Brady the HOF QB took his carries away. The only reason Brady began throwing as often as he did was because Terrence Knighton and the Denver DL dominated the line of scrimmage, and gave Blount no daylight to run through.

         Ridley a "star in the making"?? So...you do think that Ridley is a better RB than Blount. As for Ridley minus the fumbles equals a star, sorry...that's not how it works. A RB who cannot be counted on to protect the ball is a liability.  

     



    Dude Can I just call you Rusty 2.0?  Im not gonna spend all afternoon trying to explain myself. Its obvious you dont understand. I dont mean Brady took away his carries. BB/Josh handle playcalling. Im saying that if we have a back who isnt getting production wether due fault of his own OR the offensive line, either way, BB is gonna defer to Brady and the passing game, right or wrong. I DID answer your question by stating the only defense that matters is the one that sent you home. Indy?? Im supposed to be impressed that he ran on Indy?  Sorry buddy but this has been the case for the past 5 years. Running all over weak afc teams but cant run when it counts.

    If you are telling me I cant take away Ridleys fumbles than you really need to pipe down because Blount is ALSO a fumbler. Look at his career before N.E. and get back to me. ONE thousand yard season as a rookie and then lost carries each year until he was traded here. BB coached him up, he served his purpose but its over dude. He was NOT the difference maker in the playoffs, Plain and Simple. As much as you want to make him Corey Dillon, he is not. The team had to completely change their style of blocking JUST for him to have success. Why did it take half a year for him to do anything? Because they finally changed to power run sets but does it make sense to change it all for a backup? Did you see how Blount looked when asked to run a stretch play and pick a hole?  He is a one trick pony and we aint a running team YET so NO, I wont miss him. What I miss are Lombardis and Those my friend wont return until we DEFEND! SOOOOO, Im GLAD BB chose Defense over some overated power back in a passing league, Yes.  we done now?

     
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    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     



         Still awaiting your response to what other "awaiting" defenses were able to stop Blount. As for blaming Brady for the Pats not being able to run the ball in the AFC title game at Denver, you are reversing field, my friend. At first you stated that Blount couldn't run against "awaiting defenses". Now you're saying that Brady the HOF QB took his carries away. The only reason Brady began throwing as often as he did was because Terrence Knighton and the Denver DL dominated the line of scrimmage, and gave Blount no daylight to run through.

     

         Ridley a "star in the making"?? So...you do think that Ridley is a better RB than Blount. As for Ridley minus the fumbles equals a star, sorry...that's not how it works. A RB who cannot be counted on to protect the ball is a liability.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Blount cant run through traffic as well as Ridley. It's what we saw all season.

    If the holes are wide open, obviously blount is more dangerous in the open field but really gimme Ridley any day of the week.,

    but OHHHH SHH#TTT! he fumbles! he sucks! Brady also throws picks and Mankins also misses blocking assignments. Players F up. You can get over fumbling, ask Tiki Barber, Kevin Faulk or AP. You dont just run for 1200 yards in a season and suck. and dont give me the defense he ran on sucked crap because he runs better vs. good D's than blount does

     

    Ridley>Blount.

     
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    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:



         Indianapolis wasn't an "awaiting defense" for Blount?? Against Denver, you had an awaiting 335 pound, unblocked NT awaiting him. Who is going to run through that??  

         "We saw what he did vs. awaiting defenses", huh? Other than the AFC title game in Denver, when OC Wendell and both of the Patriots OGs, Mankins and Connelly, couldn't handle Terrence Knighton...what "awaiting defense" stopped him?  



    The only one that matters Tex. Im not impressed with regular season stats vs a crappy division and I dont want you to misundestand. I like Blount and what he brought. I was the one excited and posted about him being the next A.Smith and Vareen being Faulk and them helping us win a SB like in 2003, BUT it Never happened and time is running out and BB opted to go in another direction. Would I have liked Blount to say? Sure but I dont think the loss is detrimental.

    RESPONSE: So...you're blaming the Pats complete inability to run the ball in the AFC Title game on Blount?? How was losing him beneficial to the team, when he is the best RB that they have? By letting Blount walk for pittance, relaively speaking...all the Pats did was create another area of need for themelves, that must be addressed in the draft.

    Until BB gets a Prime time back that he feels should take touches away from Brady, its always gonna be the same.

    RESPONSE: Did you watch the Pats last four games, and the playoff game against Indy? Blount did "take touches away from Brady", bigtime.

    The run will get stuffed early and we go away. Why cant people make the correlation?

    RESPONSE: The run only got stuffed in one game...against Denver. Why?Because the interior of the Pats OL got manhandled by a fat butted, lard bellied NT, that no one could block.

    BB doesnt care for RBs, esp. since he got Brady. He doesnt like wasting plays so expecting BB to "stick with the run" in the playoffs while posessions are wasted?? Its never gonna happen under BB.

    RESPONSE: When was the last time that the Pats won a SB? Answer...when they played better defense, and could run the ball, using Corey Dillon, Kevin Faulk, and Alonzo Highsmith.

    Ive seen enough to know how BB operates. I just feel paying ANY old RB is a waste. If BB can get A.P. things will change. Blount as great as he looked at times was just NOT a hot commodity and that should tell you all you need to know. BB did good just by getting him to lower his pad level and stop hurdling defenders. if not for BB, Blount would be out the league this year.

    RESPONSE: So...you think that Ridley is a better RB than Blount? You think that any RB could have done what Blount did at the end of the regular season, and against Indy? I don't anybody else here, perhaps save Rusty, would agree with you.






    Dude your beef is with BB. YOU are the one sounding like Rusty. Taking up beefs online with folks with things that should be brought up to the coach/gm.

    I already said I like Blount. How do we correlate who is better between Blount and Ridley??  Numbers wise, it aint even close. Do we measure him based on the coaching up he got from BB or his whole career when he was fumbling more than Ridley in Tampa?

    of course im not blaming Blount for not running all over Denver. Im blaming Brady for being a Hall of Fame QB. Please name all the hall of Fame Qbs who handed off to cast off, undrafted guys that get traded for trackstars...I'll wait for you to look it up. You must have an issue reading my posts. I am not telling you it was a great Idea, Im simply telling you WHY it happened. Same as I been telling Rusty for YEARS WHY BB doesnt commit to the run and He never gets it and attacks ME. BB is what he is. We should ALL know his style by now. To raise hell over expected moves is pointless. Its not MY philosphy to Overuse the QB, but I understand it with the way our D has played over the past 6 years.

    Cry over Blount all you want but facts are, until BB got him and coached him up he was on his way out the league. Ridley is a star in the making, minus the fumbling. Make a Poll and see what fans think.



         Still awaiting your response to what other "awaiting" defenses were able to stop Blount. As for blaming Brady for the Pats not being able to run the ball in the AFC title game at Denver, you are reversing field, my friend. At first you stated that Blount couldn't run against "awaiting defenses". Now you're saying that Brady the HOF QB took his carries away. The only reason Brady began throwing as often as he did was because Terrence Knighton and the Denver DL dominated the line of scrimmage, and gave Blount no daylight to run through.

         Ridley a "star in the making"?? So...you do think that Ridley is a better RB than Blount. As for Ridley minus the fumbles equals a star, sorry...that's not how it works. A RB who cannot be counted on to protect the ball is a liability.  

     



    Dude Can I just call you Rusty 2.0?  Im not gonna spend all afternoon trying to explain myself. Its obvious you dont understand. I dont mean Brady took away his carries. BB/Josh handle playcalling. Im saying that if we have a back who isnt getting production wether due fault of his own OR the offensive line, either way, BB is gonna defer to Brady and the passing game, right or wrong. I DID answer your question by stating the only defense that matters is the one that sent you home. Indy?? Im supposed to be impressed that he ran on Indy?  Sorry buddy but this has been the case for the past 5 years. Running all over weak afc teams but cant run when it counts.

    If you are telling me I cant take away Ridleys fumbles than you really to pipe down because Blount is ALSo a fumbler. Look at his career before N.E. and get back to me. One thousand yard season as a rookie and then lost carries each year until he was traded here. BB coached him up, he served his purpose but its over dude. He was NOT the difference maker in the playoffs, Plain and Simple. As much as you want to make him Corey Dillon, he is not. The team had to completely change their style of blocking JUST for him to have success. Why did it take half a year for him to do anything? Because they finally changed to power run sets but does it make sense to change it all for a backup? Did you see how Blount looked when asked to run a stretch play and pick a hole?  He is a one trick pony and we aint a running team YET so NO, I wont miss him. What I miss is Lombardis and Those my friend wont return until we DEFEND SOOOOO, Im GLAD BB chose Defense over some overated power back in a passing league, Yes.  we done now?



    Not arguing against your points except that you should note that while the league is a passing league the 2 most dominant teams last year were teams that could run on almost any D. And in the red zone or ball control late in a close game you want to e able to DICTATE and that means able to run with authority... which makes Brady that much more dangerous.

    I think if we build the O line up (I am starting to think maybe we are not about to do that .. and I had hopes we would) we could be a top 4 running team in this league. ANd if you have TB passing you can really go to town.

     

     
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    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

     

      

     
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    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    Why not just sign George Bush, it would make more sense?

     
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    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    [/QUOTE]

    Not arguing against your points except that you should note that while the league is a passing league the 2 most dominant teams last year were teams that could run on almost any D. And in the red zone or ball control late in a close game you want to e able to DICTATE and that means able to run with authority... which makes Brady that much more dangerous.

    I think if we build the O line up (I am starting to think maybe we are not about to do that .. and I had hopes we would) we could be a top 4 running team in this league. ANd if you have TB passing you can really go to town.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Once Again. I know and understand fundamental football. Im sure BB does too and for years he has disregarded the run game. Do I always agree? No, but I understand why. You cant play ball control on Offense IF your Chitty D cant do the same. If you are using up a bunch of clock and your D cant get off the field you have a low posession game where your offense has to perfect. Weve seen our team lose TWICE now in the SB to the same inferior team because of it. FIX the D and then talk to me about running the ball.

    Bottom Line is this Patriots Team has not been built to win in the playoffs for some time now. Its a regular season winning machine. It works to keep the fans coming. Kraft has 3 rings and now he is getting fat off of his success. Not until THIS offseason have I seen the Pats make a concerted effort to get over that hump. We'll see if things change this year

     
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    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    In response to TripleOG's comment:



    Not arguing against your points except that you should note that while the league is a passing league the 2 most dominant teams last year were teams that could run on almost any D. And in the red zone or ball control late in a close game you want to e able to DICTATE and that means able to run with authority... which makes Brady that much more dangerous.

    I think if we build the O line up (I am starting to think maybe we are not about to do that .. and I had hopes we would) we could be a top 4 running team in this league. ANd if you have TB passing you can really go to town.

     




    Once Again. I know and understand fundamental football. Im sure BB does too and for years he has disregarded the run game. Do I always agree? No, but I understand why. You cant play ball control on Offense IF your Chitty D cant do the same. If you are using up a bunch of clock and your D cant get off the field you have a low posession game where your offense has to perfect. Weve seen our team lose TWICE now in the SB to the same inferior team because of it. FIX the D and then talk to me about running the ball.

    Bottom Line is this Patriots Team has not been built to win in the playoffs for some time now. Its a regular season winning machine. It works to keep the fans coming. Kraft has 3 rings and now he is getting fat off of his success. Not until THIS offseason have I seen the Pats make a concerted effort to get over that hump. We'll see if things change this year




    "Once Again. I know and understand fundamental football. Im sure BB does too and for years he has disregarded the run game. Do I always agree? No, but I understand why. You cant play ball control on Offense IF your Chitty D cant do the same.If you are using up a bunch of clock and your D cant get off the field you have a low posession game where your offense has to perfect. Weve seen our team lose TWICE now in the SB to the same inferior team because of it."

    2 spectrums=2.  2 aspects to the greater game of football=2.  You offered the 1st 1 and only the 1st 1...  I will offer the 2nd 1.  They compliment each othher & go hand in hand.  Yours and mine, Offense and Defense=Together.  Not 1...but 2.

    Here's mine:

    Once Again. I know and understand fundamental football.  Im sure BB does too and for years, he has disregarded the dual game...run AND pass...Defense AND Offense...and failed to win the big game.  Do I always agree?  No, but I understand why.  You can't play ball control on Offense IF you do not run the ball too, and thus control game tempo with long extended TIME Eating drives, AND your D can't get off the field when the Offense, successful in scoring OR Not...If your chitty Offense takes the field for 2 minutes...before heading back to the bench.  The 100th time the D takes the field sorta wheres them (along with the odds of probabillity) pretty thin, come the 2nd Half Regular season Games...yet in the regular season because of our above average team and crummy division, We STILL make the playoffs.  And your O, not having a dual Running AND Passing to threaten the opposition, 2 minute successful or not drives, and with the above being true-That the 100th time the D takes the field sorta wears them and the odds of probability thin come the 2nd half, RESULTS in a LOSS, when NE gets to any..and every equally formidable...but better balanced team...IN The Playoffs.  NE Loses in the playoffs, Because they ARE NOT...eating up a "buncha clock on Offense."  This results in a low possession game, with your O on the field for 2 minutes, and your D never not off the bench for too long.  The Offense scores low, and does not control the gameclock in their playoff loses.  For proof?  Look at the Final Offensive Score of NE's playoff loses, and the TOP differential and ultimately how long The Defense held the other team to a low score throughout the course of the game, to boot.  The Offense does not have to be perfect.  Just Balanced...and therefore/as a result=Not chitty in the postseason.  We've seen our team lose twice in The SB to the MORE balanced team, because NE's postseason Offensive Duality in R vs P, and subsequent O & D complimenting TOP football, because of it."

    There.

    All better.

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    In response to LazarusintheSanatorium's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:



    Not arguing against your points except that you should note that while the league is a passing league the 2 most dominant teams last year were teams that could run on almost any D. And in the red zone or ball control late in a close game you want to e able to DICTATE and that means able to run with authority... which makes Brady that much more dangerous.

    I think if we build the O line up (I am starting to think maybe we are not about to do that .. and I had hopes we would) we could be a top 4 running team in this league. ANd if you have TB passing you can really go to town.

     




    Once Again. I know and understand fundamental football. Im sure BB does too and for years he has disregarded the run game. Do I always agree? No, but I understand why. You cant play ball control on Offense IF your Chitty D cant do the same. If you are using up a bunch of clock and your D cant get off the field you have a low posession game where your offense has to perfect. Weve seen our team lose TWICE now in the SB to the same inferior team because of it. FIX the D and then talk to me about running the ball.

    Bottom Line is this Patriots Team has not been built to win in the playoffs for some time now. Its a regular season winning machine. It works to keep the fans coming. Kraft has 3 rings and now he is getting fat off of his success. Not until THIS offseason have I seen the Pats make a concerted effort to get over that hump. We'll see if things change this year




    "Once Again. I know and understand fundamental football. Im sure BB does too and for years he has disregarded the run game. Do I always agree? No, but I understand why. You cant play ball control on Offense IF your Chitty D cant do the same.If you are using up a bunch of clock and your D cant get off the field you have a low posession game where your offense has to perfect. Weve seen our team lose TWICE now in the SB to the same inferior team because of it."

    2 spectrums=2.  2 aspects to the greater game of football=2.  You offered the 1st 1 and only the 1st 1...  I will offer the 2nd 1.  They compliment each othher & go hand in hand.  Yours and mine, Offense and Defense=Together.  Not 1...but 2.

    Here's mine:

    Once Again. I know and understand fundamental football.  Im sure BB does too and for years, he has disregarded the dual game...run AND pass...Defense AND Offense...and failed to win the big game.  Do I always agree?  No, but I understand why.  You can't play ball control on Offense IF you do not run the ball too, and thus control game tempo with long extended TIME Eating drives, AND your D can't get off the field when the Offense, successful in scoring OR Not...If your chitty Offense takes the field for 2 minutes...before heading back to the bench.  The 100th time the D takes the field sorta wheres them (along with the odds of probabillity) pretty thin, come the 2nd Half Regular season Games...yet in the regular season because of our above average team and crummy division, We STILL make the playoffs.  And your O, not having a dual Running AND Passing to threaten the opposition, 2 minute successful or not drives, and with the above being true-That the 100th time the D takes the field sorta wears them and the odds of probability thin come the 2nd half, RESULTS in a LOSS, when NE gets to any..and every equally formidable...but better balanced team...IN The Playoffs.  NE Loses in the playoffs, Because they ARE NOT...eating up a "buncha clock on Offense."  This results in a low possession game, with your O on the field for 2 minutes, and your D never not off the bench for too long.  The Offense scores low, and does not control the gameclock in their playoff loses.  For proof?  Look at the Final Offensive Score of NE's playoff loses, and the TOP differential and ultimately how long The Defense held the other team to a low score throughout the course of the game, to boot.  The Offense does not have to be perfect.  Just Balanced...and therefore/as a result=Not chitty in the postseason.  We've seen our team lose twice in The SB to the MORE balanced team, because NE's postseason Offensive Duality in R vs P, and subsequent O & D complimenting TOP football, because of it."

    There.

    All better.

     




    Talk to the coach Laz. I dont run the team. Im just trying to explain why you guys will never see much running in postseason until the D is fixed. Wozzy kindly pointed out that both San Fran and Seattle were #1 and # 2 respectively in rushing but failed to mention that they were # 1 and # 2 Defensively Also. I like watching Running backs run the ball. I dont like watching them run into a wall over and over in the playoffs.

    Talk to the GM who built this team to pass. We are never gonna run in the postseason unless we get a Dominant Back or Maulers on the line. We probably average 310 on the line. You seen San Frans O line? They are MASSIVE, which allows them to push around the better D lines in the playoffs.

    Class is Over kids.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    "Wozzy kindly pointed out that both San Fran and Seattle were #1 and # 2 respectively in rushing but failed to mention that they were # 1 and # 2 Defensively."

    so you're saying that #1 and #2...have no correlation to the 2nd #1 & #2=2 entirely seperate entities wholly & utterly...

    ...And, IF we simply do this:

    "Talk to the GM who built this team to pass. We are never gonna run in the postseason unless we get a Dominant Back or Maulers on the line. We probably average 310 on the line. You seen San Frans O line? They are MASSIVE, which allows them to push around the better D lines in the playoffs."

    ...Acquire 5 starting stud monster O-Linemen + 1 Stud #1 first-class Runningback, Then=

    We should be fine.

    That's 1 theory...But I'm gonna stick with The completest side of the football Total Balance in play-calling, schematic versatility & open-ended looks to threaten through set-up, and the pragmatics of having the the very least amount of exploitable weak links within the aforementioned first 2 clauses, within and ultimately through the final end reality of attempting to do the same in the personell department (rather than just finding those 22 probowlers to place on the field). 

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from APpats22. Show APpats22's posts

    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    I rather they draft and develop a new RB. It's the best thing to do instead of signing a vet at this point.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from jgallag1. Show jgallag1's posts

    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    I know BB loves his former college QB's who play different positions now, but I'd rather see them spend a mid-round pick on a RB. I'd love to see them take Williams out of BC. From what I've heard, he looked good catching the ball out of the backfield at his pro day, which is something he didn't do at all at BC. He's a big brutal back with breakaway speed, which is what they had with Blount, but younger.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    I don't get it.  We already have a roster full of short yardage, when it counts, guys.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    In response to jgallag1's comment:

    I know BB loves his former college QB's who play different positions now, but I'd rather see them spend a mid-round pick on a RB. I'd love to see them take Williams out of BC. From what I've heard, he looked good catching the ball out of the backfield at his pro day, which is something he didn't do at all at BC. He's a big brutal back with breakaway speed, which is what they had with Blount, but younger.



    jgallag~

    I took a look at Andre Williams:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujt1S9P2XHE

    He loses speed in his hesitation before hitting the hole...constantly.  In running, Williams is as good as the guy he's against...  I don't know how else to describe it.  Excuse  my brash  delivery.  He's not an instinctual runner and he's never been pushed.  Compare this critique when now looking at this guy:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_67w8sjuo8

    THAT is a 1st Rd Runningback...and I deplore taking any runningback living or dead...with a 1st Rd Selection.  Whereas Williams is as good as the guy he's playing against...^ This guy plays like they are not there.  Whereas the 1st guy is playing his opponent...the second guy is up against the field.  Watch it til you can tell...  Williams hasn't been pushed enough.  Hill was pushed too hard somewhere...and he's still holding something somewhere back.  Hill is enigmatically undecipherable.  Ya can't tell IF he's long-legged, upper body BIG, heavy-lean or lean-heavy...  He's a Marshawn Lynch-type (not to diservice Hill b/c I don't like comparables, even ostensibly laudable ones).  Hill loses neither speed, momentum, field vision openness, in his lean, balance, forward-side shifting balance and momentum towards the hole...  He is FAST to the Hole.  Balanced.  Agile.  Big.  He is bullish and flexible, brutish and fluid, powerful and nuanced.  THAT is an A-Class RB.

    I have seen 2 A Class players in this draft thus far, DE/DT/NT Ra'shede Haggeman and RB Jeremy Hill.  I would like NE to target those positions, and I'm looking at targetable draft selections for NE's 1st and ^.  I would love NE to nab an OLB, and maybe both/either a TE and an OL too.  Haven't judged the hidden OLs yet, and unfortunately I have yet to see any A Class TE nor OLB, in this draft...try as I might, I simply cannot.

    Thoughts ANYONE?

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    In response to LazarusintheSanatorium's comment:

    "Wozzy kindly pointed out that both San Fran and Seattle were #1 and # 2 respectively in rushing but failed to mention that they were # 1 and # 2 Defensively."

    so you're saying that #1 and #2...have no correlation to the 2nd #1 & #2=2 entirely seperate entities wholly & utterly...

    ...And, IF we simply do this:

    "Talk to the GM who built this team to pass. We are never gonna run in the postseason unless we get a Dominant Back or Maulers on the line. We probably average 310 on the line. You seen San Frans O line? They are MASSIVE, which allows them to push around the better D lines in the playoffs."

    ...Acquire 5 starting stud monster O-Linemen + 1 Stud #1 first-class Runningback, Then=

    We should be fine.

    That's 1 theory...But I'm gonna stick with The completest side of the football Total Balance in play-calling, schematic versatility & open-ended looks to threaten through set-up, and the pragmatics of having the the very least amount of exploitable weak links within the aforementioned first 2 clauses, within and ultimately through the final end reality of attempting to do the same in the personell department (rather than just finding those 22 probowlers to place on the field). 

     



    Laz Im not asking to improve the run game. To me its not that important if you have a dominant D. You never mentioned that and Thats MY main point. Wozzy expects us to run the same amount of times and get same production as teams that boast Great Ds, top notch runners AND a Running QB which skews your total rush numbers. At this stage I think we are closer to having a great D than overhauling the Line or getting Adrian Peterson. After so many years rebuilding, the smartest way is to FINISH the rebuild by getting some D line help, DT and DE and letting Browner play SS for us so we dont have smallish CB types in the playoffs that noone is scared of.

    I believe in All 3 phases but this team is not great in all 3. At some point you have to lean on your strenght. IN Seattle and San Fran with young, mobile QBs and a D, their strenght is more towards Running. We have the best QB arguably in History and you think BB is gonna pay him 20 million to hand off to a malcontent, cast off like Blount??   Its never gonna happen....not until we have a Great D again...Lets hope it comes together this year so we finallly stop debating and start celebrating..

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    In response to TripleOG's comment:



    Not arguing against your points except that you should note that while the league is a passing league the 2 most dominant teams last year were teams that could run on almost any D. And in the red zone or ball control late in a close game you want to e able to DICTATE and that means able to run with authority... which makes Brady that much more dangerous.

    I think if we build the O line up (I am starting to think maybe we are not about to do that .. and I had hopes we would) we could be a top 4 running team in this league. ANd if you have TB passing you can really go to town.

     




    Once Again. I know and understand fundamental football. Im sure BB does too and for years he has disregarded the run game. Do I always agree? No, but I understand why. You cant play ball control on Offense IF your Chitty D cant do the same. If you are using up a bunch of clock and your D cant get off the field you have a low posession game where your offense has to perfect. Weve seen our team lose TWICE now in the SB to the same inferior team because of it. FIX the D and then talk to me about running the ball.

    Bottom Line is this Patriots Team has not been built to win in the playoffs for some time now. Its a regular season winning machine. It works to keep the fans coming. Kraft has 3 rings and now he is getting fat off of his success. Not until THIS offseason have I seen the Pats make a concerted effort to get over that hump. We'll see if things change this year



    I agree that the D is waht needs fixing most. Agree.... I have said so. ANd I have been more specific.. saying before we got Revis and Browner that we needed to build a more dominant front seven.

    BUT - you cannot ignore the offense even as you are trying to build a dominating D. Not only does one help the other but if you build a more dominant OL then not only does the running game improve but TB is helped AND protected.

    The M Bush thing is simply whether he would be a good value both money to talent wise and in terms of a fit for the group of RBs we have.

    I do DISAGREE that Kraft or BB are getting fat. I think they try to put together the best team they can (1) within the framework of not just going for a one year shot and (2) within the framework of the sort of roster they want. And the latter includes the following principles:

    1. DEPTH is critical to success (regular and post season)

    2. FLEXIBILITY of O and D to adapt to weather, to opponents, to game situations is critical to how BB coaches gameday

    3. Special teams are very significant and so you need to count the value of players who contribute on special teams (or who are liabilities/non contributors on special teams)

    We might not like it but even while we had depth injuries have impacted whether the Pats have won a SB or not over the last several years. Whether it is Gronk (take out the equaivalent player on another team and see if that team won a SB that year), Mankins, or Vinny/Kelly/Mayo,... or Talib... or Amendola... or TB for that matter (2008). The point is you cant just blame BB for key injuries that we have ALMOST overcome in terms of actually winning SBs (and HAVE overcome in terms of winning the division and even getting into the AFC championship and even into the SB).

    We all would love to have a guy like Revis (assuming he is himself) for years. But in most cases high profile FAs get overpaid and their teams do not go as far. We have been tantalizingly close (magic helmet catch, tough drop/not so great a throw by a great go to WR and HOF QB, etc).  So we should get over ourselves a bit here. YOu and I agree we should be focused on making this D dominant. But (1) dont ignore the O and what it will take to make the O s good as it needs to be (and to extend TBs career as well.. he is still the most important part of all this by a good margin) and (2) and dont rag on BB because we only won 3 SBs and in other years had late leads in 2 SBs, one year went 16-0 and in some other years made it to the AFC championship game. AND ARE RIGHT NOW ONE OF THE TWO BEST TEAMS IN THE AFC going into the draft.

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: RB Michael Bush set to visit NE

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

    I don't get it.  We already have a roster full of short yardage, when it counts, guys.



    Well, M Bush is NOT a major issue. He is just the topic of this thread. SO we are not talking biggest need on offense let alone in the team.

    Having said that Bush does have some nice aspects to his game including the fact he is more of a bruiser than anyone on the roster right now. Bolden is OK in short yardage but not special. Ridley is OK but not special. Vereen is even ok as he picks good spots and so runs smart. But he is not special that way. Bush would add some value there and he is also a reasonable blocker I think and a decent receiver.

    Not getting him is no big deal. But I would rather have him and look elsewhere in the first 3 rounds of the draft to other positions.

     
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