RB Receptions

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    RB Receptions

    In 2011, Patriots' RBs accounted for only 9% of the total receptions in the regular season, the lowest total since Brady became starter.

    Here are the percentages since 2001,
    2001 30%
    2002 25%
    2003 28%
    2004 24%
    2005 24%
    2006 27%
    2007 15%
    2008 24%
    2009 19%
    2010 18%
    2011 09%

    Here are some factors to consider.
    1) 2007 Wes Welker joined the team.
    2) 2010 Gronk and Hernandez drafted.
    3) 2010 Kevin Faulk injured.

    Is this downward trend a concern?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from oh-my-beard. Show oh-my-beard's posts

    Re: RB Receptions

    I wouldn't call it a "concern"... It's just a fact. A healthy Vereen/Woodhead combo + McDaniels in the fold and those percentages will probably go up. Faulk made a living catched passes on 3rd down. Would love to see Vereen step up and do that.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: RB Receptions


    Yes, it is a concern.  We need backs who are better in the passing game for three reasons:

    • First, it adds diversity to the offense, allowing for more screens and other pass plays designed for the RB
    • Second, it means more and better outlet options when Brady is pressured on pass plays
    • Third, it actually can improve the running game because it becomes less clear when the back is in the game whether the play is a run or pass and therefore makes it harder for the D to key on the run

    The past two years, we've used Woodhead as the passing down back and BJGE as the running down back.  While we've tried to mix it up a bit, BJGE was really not a great back to keep in when passing and Woodhead, while a bit more versatile, isn't a great running back (and also had a drop off in pass production last year).  If we can get a back is who is a better runner than Woodhead and a better pass catcher than BJGE, our offense will be greatly improved. 


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from oh-my-beard. Show oh-my-beard's posts

    Re: RB Receptions

    In Response to Re: RB Receptions:
    [QUOTE]Yes, it is a concern.  We need backs who are better in the passing game for three reasons: First, it adds diversity to the offense, allowing for more screens and other pass plays designed for the RB Second, it means more and better outlet options when Brady is pressured on pass plays Third, it actually can improve the running game because it becomes less clear when the back is in the game whether the play is a run or pass and therefore makes it harder for the D to key on the run The past two years, we've used Woodhead as the passing down back and BJGE as the running down back.  While we've tried to mix it up a bit, BJGE was really not a great back to keep in when passing and Woodhead, while a bit more versatile, isn't a great running back (and also had a drop off in pass production last year).  If we can get a back is who is a better runner than Woodhead and a better pass catcher than BJGE, our offense will be greatly improved. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
    I say again... I think Vereen can be that guy. Faulk and Vereen look very similar. People have this misconception the Faulk was a "third down back." He carried the majority of the time a few years ago. Faulk and Vereen look to have similar skillsets.

    Faulk:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHLriGCy8vs

    P.S. Faulk is my favorite Patriot of all time. Ahead of Brady for me.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: RB Receptions

    In Response to Re: RB Receptions:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: RB Receptions : I say again... I think Vereen can be that guy. Faulk and Vereen look very similar. People have this misconception the Faulk was a "third down back." He carried the majority of the time a few years ago. Faulk and Vereen look to have similar skillsets. Faulk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHLriGCy8vs Vereen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ys2A9Mm2hQ P.S. Faulk is my favorite Patriot of all time. Ahead of Brady for me.
    Posted by oh-my-beard[/QUOTE]


    I hope Vereen has that versatility . . . and would also be happy if Ridley turns out to have more receiving ability than BJGE. You're right about Faulk who ended up being more of an every down back, even though his in-traffic running skills maybe weren't ideal for a lead running back.  

    My post, by the way, wasn't a response to yours even if it seemed that way.  I was typing it up at the same time you were posting.   
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: RB Receptions

    We have really gotten away from the RB screen in recent years - we run a lot of the bubble screens to TE/WR but very few of the standard RB screens. And with Gronk being such a receiving threat, we are much more likely to keep the back in on pass protection and release the TE into patterns.
    But I agree that we need to get the backs more involved in the pass game.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: RB Receptions

    In Response to Re: RB Receptions:
    [QUOTE]Yes, it is a concern.  We need backs who are better in the passing game for three reasons: First, it adds diversity to the offense, allowing for more screens and other pass plays designed for the RB Second, it means more and better outlet options when Brady is pressured on pass plays Third, it actually can improve the running game because it becomes less clear when the back is in the game whether the play is a run or pass and therefore makes it harder for the D to key on the run The past two years, we've used Woodhead as the passing down back and BJGE as the running down back.  While we've tried to mix it up a bit, BJGE was really not a great back to keep in when passing and Woodhead, while a bit more versatile, isn't a great running back (and also had a drop off in pass production last year).  If we can get a back is who is a better runner than Woodhead and a better pass catcher than BJGE, our offense will be greatly improved. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    While I agree with you I think it is worth noting that we have never had a back who runs AND catches balls on a regular basis (as in starters minutes). We have always had an Antowain Smith to Faulk, Corey Dillion to Faulk, Maroney to Faulk or BJGE to Faulk/Woodhead.

    No, I think it is the change in offensive philosophy. Since 07 we look down field more then ever before where as we used to take what the defense gave us. It is great when we put up record breaking numbers against average NFL teams but it is imo a serious detriment to our offense come post season play, and is again imo the reason we have not won either of our 2 SB's.(offense averaged over 33ppg in regular season but 15.5ppg in 2 pass heavy SB's)

    It is also worth noting that while BJGE might be thought of as only a runner he caught 9 of his 13 targets last year, point being he is obviously capable of catching the ball. Throw to the RB more often and it makes us less predictable and would improve the running game as defense's would be unable to key in on what we are doing, as you said.

    With all that said I think/hope McD will bring back a balance and variety(more important) to the offense. Now we just have to see if either of our 2 unproven 2nd year RB's are capable of succeeding in our offense and more importantly if they are able to protect Tom Brady at 35 years of age when he is throwing more then he ever has in his career. Very legitimate concerns if you ask me.


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: RB Receptions

    In Response to Re: RB Receptions:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: RB Receptions : I say again... I think Vereen can be that guy. Faulk and Vereen look very similar. People have this misconception the Faulk was a "third down back." He carried the majority of the time a few years ago. Faulk and Vereen look to have similar skillsets. Faulk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHLriGCy8vs Vereen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ys2A9Mm2hQ P.S. Faulk is my favorite Patriot of all time. Ahead of Brady for me.
    Posted by oh-my-beard[/QUOTE]

    I dont see the comparison at all. The limited time I saw Vereen last year in camp (granted it was one day) he can turn the corner like no one the Pats have had in a long time. He is a threat to go all the way from anywhere on the field. He needs to work on his blocking. I have not seen enough of him to comment on his recieving skills.
    IMO all of the above are the complete opposite of Faulk.
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: RB Receptions

    In Response to Re: RB Receptions:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: RB Receptions : I say again... I think Vereen can be that guy. Faulk and Vereen look very similar. People have this misconception the Faulk was a "third down back." He carried the majority of the time a few years ago. Faulk and Vereen look to have similar skillsets. Faulk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHLriGCy8vs Vereen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ys2A9Mm2hQ P.S. Faulk is my favorite Patriot of all time. Ahead of Brady for me.
    Posted by oh-my-beard[/QUOTE]

    I essentially agree about Vereen. Faulk I think has more of a first step - make the guy miss going north and south than Vereen's style. I think Vereen has more top end speed, more ability to break big gains. I do not expect Vereen to be as good a pass blocker at this stage (or maybe ever but who knows).
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: RB Receptions

    In Response to Re: RB Receptions:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: RB Receptions : I dont see the comparison at all. The limited time I saw Vereen last year in camp (granted it was one day) he can turn the corner like no one the Pats have had in a long time. He is a threat to go all the way from anywhere on the field. He needs to work on his blocking. I have not seen enough of him to comment on his recieving skills. IMO all of the above are the complete opposite of Faulk.
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]

    Kevin Faulk was one of the best pass catching RB's in NFL history. Mr Reliable. Hopefully Vareen carried Faulks jock strap for him a few times and some of the magic rubbed off on him. Otherwise he has a looooooonnngggggg way to go in replacing Faulks production.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: RB Receptions

    In Response to Re: RB Receptions:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: RB Receptions : While I agree with you I think it is worth noting that we have never had a back who runs AND catches balls on a regular basis (as in starters minutes). We have always had an Antowain Smith to Faulk, Corey Dillion to Faulk, Maroney to Faulk or BJGE to Faulk/Woodhead. No, I think it is the change in offensive philosophy. Since 07 we look down field more then ever before where as we used to take what the defense gave us. It is great when we put up record breaking numbers against average NFL teams but it is imo a serious detriment to our offense come post season play, and is again imo the reason we have not won either of our 2 SB's.(offense averaged over 33ppg in regular season but 15.5ppg in 2 pass heavy SB's) It is also worth noting that while BJGE might be thought of as only a runner he caught 9 of his 13 targets last year, point being he is obviously capable of catching the ball. Throw to the RB more often and it makes us less predictable and would improve the running game as defense's would be unable to key in on what we are doing, as you said. With all that said I think/hope McD will bring back a balance and variety(more important) to the offense. Now we just have to see if either of our 2 unproven 2nd year RB's are capable of succeeding in our offense and more importantly if they are able to protect Tom Brady at 35 years of age when he is throwing more then he ever has in his career. Very legitimate concerns if you ask me.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Faulk, though, was actually a better runner than Woodhead and had a few good years where he really was effective in both the running and passing game. Also Smith and some of the fullbacks we used to have also had bigger roles in the passing game than BJGE.  It's possible that BJGE was targeted so little because of scheme or Brady's choices, but having watched BJGE play I don't think he was great in the passing game mostly because he doesn't get to the edges of the field well.  He's more an up the middle kind of runner.  And he often seems to have trouble shaking defenders in the passing game.  On play action, when he didn't get the ball, he often ended up smothered by a LB rather than getting free to take an outlet pass.  That actually happened on the safety play in the Super Bowl, where BJGE got caught in the wash after the play action fake, leaving Brady without an outlet (Solder was the other possible outlet, but he was clearly there just to block).  


     
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: RB Receptions

    In Response to RB Receptions:
    [QUOTE]In 2011, Patriots' RBs accounted for only 9% of the total receptions in the regular season, the lowest total since Brady became starter. Here are the percentages since 2001, 2001 30% 2002 25% 2003 28% 2004 24% 2005 24% 2006 27% 2007 15% 2008 24% 2009 19% 2010 18% 2011 09% Here are some factors to consider. 1) 2007 Wes Welker joined the team. 2) 2010 Gronk and Hernandez drafted. 3) 2010 Kevin Faulk injured. Is this downward trend a concern?
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]

    it looks like a scheme driven trend. taking away the year that hoyer QBed, there is an obvious step drop that can be trace back to 2007.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: RB Receptions

    [QUOTE]it looks like a scheme driven trend. taking away the year that hoyer QBed, there is an obvious step drop that can be trace back to 2007.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]
    Kevin Faulk had a career high 58 receptions in 2008 with Matt Cassel at QB.

    I think the downward trend is a combination of scheme, or Welker, Gronk and Hernandez always being open, and a lack of talent/experience at RB.

    Interestingly, against the Giants in the Super Bowl, running backs caught 6 of Brady's 27 completions, which was good for 22%.
     
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