re-sign Spikes

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to Getzo's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to IndianaPatsFan's comment:

     

     

     

    Sorry to throw a wrench into the plans of the "just re-sign everybody" crowd, but there's this little obstacle called the salary cap. The Pats, like all NFL teams, have to make tough choices. Important players like Brady, Vollmer, Mankins, Gronk, Big Vince, and Mayo have received their big pay days, and other like Spikes, McCourty, Talib, Wendell, and Solder are coming due.

    We are free to throw out our opinions here, but we REALLY don't see the whole picture like the Patriots organization does.
    M H K

     

     



    They are currently 10mil under the capwith the cap expecting a major increase in 2014. Solder can wait until after 2014 to sign, Wendell is not going to command a ton (think 2-3mil), so you are really talking about Talib, McCourty, and Spikes. Of the 3 Talib will cost the most but you certainly can fit both Spikes and McCourty in the 2014 year for under a $7mil cap hit for both combined, until the cap expands were their bas salary can increase (but no more than 30% the previous year by rule). Additionally, if they spend money wisely they will have over $17mil in dead money coming off the books in the next couple of years. That $17mil can be spread into the extensions provided they don't do dumb things like sign Haynesworth's, Fenana's, Ocho's, A. Wilson's anymore. There's plenty of room to fit our guys under the cap and add a couple of extra pieces too.

     

     

     



    4. Cap update. One of the questions often posed by readers is: Why are the Patriots preserving cap space as the regular season is underway? The answer is to give the team flexibility to make moves such as this one, as the new money given to Ninkovich will cut into the team's current cap space. That's a worthwhile investment and good reason to be patient with available money. Prior to the Ninkovich deal becoming official, the Patriots have $7.148 in cap space.

     



    Getz, I read all over the place before week 1 they were ~$10mil under. They didn't really add anyone since then so I'm not sure how the number jumped from $10mil to $7.148mil so I'm a little hesistant to think which is the right number. I'll stick to the one that best supports my argument and the one I heard most often until now (honestly that's what we all do anyways). BTW they also got $1.34mil back from Fenana so you have to take that into account. There's also a report that Nink's extension didn't really do much for his current cap number. The main reason is that his current cap hit had 1.6mil in bonuses accounted. So it gets added to the extension bonuses and spread over the extension (including this year) and in essence increases hit cap hit by less than $1mil for this year. Rkarp said he heard talk it actually saves $1.4mil this year which could also be the case but safe to say it did effect his cap number by more or less around $1mil. Not exactly a cap buster on that one and not really a reason to have all that extra room if that's what you are trying to get at. However, if they extend say McCourty (~$2.3mil cap hit this year) there is a fair chance his cap hit could increase by more than $2mil which would be a good reason to keep that kind of extra money around. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    So...in the case of a re- signing of spikes talib and MCC..., Cap room this year (7-10 mil) would be affected only by the increase salary over what they are making already.  so, no problem.  They can afford it.  The problem comes when you re-sign one guy and not another.  Sends a message. 

    At least make an offer. ..  Unless of course you don't want the guy. ( I.e) Welker.  we all know how that played out.

    Why not  go after guys now ( like Nink)...?  Maybe you get a bargain, since players stock can go up.  Mainly you take advantage of the team chemistry of a winning group coming together and having that inclination to stick with a good thing.  At least you find out early who is just after the money....

     

     

     

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to IndianaPatsFan's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    Sorry to throw a wrench into the plans of the "just re-sign everybody" crowd, but there's this little obstacle called the salary cap. The Pats, like all NFL teams, have to make tough choices. Important players like Brady, Vollmer, Mankins, Gronk, Big Vince, and Mayo have received their big pay days, and other like Spikes, McCourty, Talib, Wendell, and Solder are coming due.

    We are free to throw out our opinions here, but we REALLY don't see the whole picture like the Patriots organization does.
    M H K

     

     

     



    They are currently 10mil under the capwith the cap expecting a major increase in 2014. Solder can wait until after 2014 to sign, Wendell is not going to command a ton (think 2-3mil), so you are really talking about Talib, McCourty, and Spikes. Of the 3 Talib will cost the most but you certainly can fit both Spikes and McCourty in the 2014 year for under a $7mil cap hit for both combined, until the cap expands were their bas salary can increase (but no more than 30% the previous year by rule). Additionally, if they spend money wisely they will have over $17mil in dead money coming off the books in the next couple of years. That $17mil can be spread into the extensions provided they don't do dumb things like sign Haynesworth's, Fenana's, Ocho's, A. Wilson's anymore. There's plenty of room to fit our guys under the cap and add a couple of extra pieces too.

     

     

     

     

     



    4. Cap update. One of the questions often posed by readers is: Why are the Patriots preserving cap space as the regular season is underway? The answer is to give the team flexibility to make moves such as this one, as the new money given to Ninkovich will cut into the team's current cap space. That's a worthwhile investment and good reason to be patient with available money. Prior to the Ninkovich deal becoming official, the Patriots have $7.148 in cap space.

     

     

     



    Getz, I read all over the place before week 1 they were ~$10mil under. They didn't really add anyone since then so I'm not sure how the number jumped from $10mil to $7.148mil so I'm a little hesistant to think which is the right number. I'll stick to the one that best supports my argument and the one I heard most often until now (honestly that's what we all do anyways). BTW they also got $1.34mil back from Fenana so you have to take that into account. There's also a report that Nink's extension didn't really do much for his current cap number. The main reason is that his current cap hit had 1.6mil in bonuses accounted. So it gets added to the extension bonuses and spread over the extension (including this year) and in essence increases hit cap hit by less than $1mil for this year. Rkarp said he heard talk it actually saves $1.4mil this year which could also be the case but safe to say it did effect his cap number by more or less around $1mil. Not exactly a cap buster on that one and not really a reason to have all that extra room if that's what you are trying to get at. However, if they extend say McCourty (~$2.3mil cap hit this year) there is a fair chance his cap hit could increase by more than $2mil which would be a good reason to keep that kind of extra money around. 

     



    The official number is available on the NFLPA web site.  Pats are currently listed as 7.4 million below.  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    Talib is a must sign. The secondary is solidified with him in there. With talib and dennard they are a much, much better D. Yesterday once again one of the sacks was a definite coverage sack and on multiple plays the Freeman had ample time, couldn't find an open receiver and had to throw the ball away.

    Spikes is a thumper and brings enthusiam to the D but he much easier to replace than talib.



    Agree, or this will be Asante Samuel part duex and we'll be looking for another good corner for 5 more years.

    wait on spikes to see if/how Collins and Stevie B deVelop...no rush on spikes because I don't think he is going to command big bucks.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

     

     

     

    In response to IndianaPatsFan's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Sorry to throw a wrench into the plans of the "just re-sign everybody" crowd, but there's this little obstacle called the salary cap. The Pats, like all NFL teams, have to make tough choices. Important players like Brady, Vollmer, Mankins, Gronk, Big Vince, and Mayo have received their big pay days, and other like Spikes, McCourty, Talib, Wendell, and Solder are coming due.

    We are free to throw out our opinions here, but we REALLY don't see the whole picture like the Patriots organization does.
    M H K

     

     

     

     



    They are currently 10mil under the capwith the cap expecting a major increase in 2014. Solder can wait until after 2014 to sign, Wendell is not going to command a ton (think 2-3mil), so you are really talking about Talib, McCourty, and Spikes. Of the 3 Talib will cost the most but you certainly can fit both Spikes and McCourty in the 2014 year for under a $7mil cap hit for both combined, until the cap expands were their bas salary can increase (but no more than 30% the previous year by rule). Additionally, if they spend money wisely they will have over $17mil in dead money coming off the books in the next couple of years. That $17mil can be spread into the extensions provided they don't do dumb things like sign Haynesworth's, Fenana's, Ocho's, A. Wilson's anymore. There's plenty of room to fit our guys under the cap and add a couple of extra pieces too.

     

     

     

     

     y

     

     



    4. Cap update. One of the questions often posed by readers is: Why are the Patriots preserving cap space as the regular season is underway? The answer is to give the team flexibility to make moves such as this one, as the new money given to Ninkovich will cut into the team's current cap space. That's a worthwhile investment and good reason to be patient with available money. Prior to the Ninkovich deal becoming official, the Patriots have $7.148 in cap space.

     

     

     

     

     



    Getz, I read all over the place before week 1 they were ~$10mil under. They didn't really add anyone since then so I'm not sure how the number jumped from $10mil to $7.148mil so I'm a little hesistant to think which is the right number. I'll stick to the one that best supports my argument and the one I heard most often until now (honestly that's what we all do anyways). BTW they also got $1.34mil back from Fenana so you have to take that into account. There's also a report that Nink's extension didn't really do much for his current cap number. The main reason is that his current cap hit had 1.6mil in bonuses accounted. So it gets added to the extension bonuses and spread over the extension (including this year) and in essence increases hit cap hit by less than $1mil for this year. Rkarp said he heard talk it actually saves $1.4mil this year which could also be the case but safe to say it did effect his cap number by more or less around $1mil. Not exactly a cap buster on that one and not really a reason to have all that extra room if that's what you are trying to get at. However, if they extend say McCourty (~$2.3mil cap hit this year) there is a fair chance his cap hit could increase by more than $2mil which would be a good reason to keep that kind of extra money around. 

     

     

     



    The official number is available on the NFLPA web site.  Pats are currently listed as 7.4 million below.  

     




     

    How does 7.4mil cap room compare to the other teams in the league?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

     

    In response to Getzo's comment:

     

     

     

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to IndianaPatsFan's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Sorry to throw a wrench into the plans of the "just re-sign everybody" crowd, but there's this little obstacle called the salary cap. The Pats, like all NFL teams, have to make tough choices. Important players like Brady, Vollmer, Mankins, Gronk, Big Vince, and Mayo have received their big pay days, and other like Spikes, McCourty, Talib, Wendell, and Solder are coming due.

    We are free to throw out our opinions here, but we REALLY don't see the whole picture like the Patriots organization does.
    M H K

     

     

     

     

     



    They are currently 10mil under the capwith the cap expecting a major increase in 2014. Solder can wait until after 2014 to sign, Wendell is not going to command a ton (think 2-3mil), so you are really talking about Talib, McCourty, and Spikes. Of the 3 Talib will cost the most but you certainly can fit both Spikes and McCourty in the 2014 year for under a $7mil cap hit for both combined, until the cap expands were their bas salary can increase (but no more than 30% the previous year by rule). Additionally, if they spend money wisely they will have over $17mil in dead money coming off the books in the next couple of years. That $17mil can be spread into the extensions provided they don't do dumb things like sign Haynesworth's, Fenana's, Ocho's, A. Wilson's anymore. There's plenty of room to fit our guys under the cap and add a couple of extra pieces too.

     

     

     

     

     

     y

     

     

     



    4. Cap update. One of the questions often posed by readers is: Why are the Patriots preserving cap space as the regular season is underway? The answer is to give the team flexibility to make moves such as this one, as the new money given to Ninkovich will cut into the team's current cap space. That's a worthwhile investment and good reason to be patient with available money. Prior to the Ninkovich deal becoming official, the Patriots have $7.148 in cap space.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Getz, I read all over the place before week 1 they were ~$10mil under. They didn't really add anyone since then so I'm not sure how the number jumped from $10mil to $7.148mil so I'm a little hesistant to think which is the right number. I'll stick to the one that best supports my argument and the one I heard most often until now (honestly that's what we all do anyways). BTW they also got $1.34mil back from Fenana so you have to take that into account. There's also a report that Nink's extension didn't really do much for his current cap number. The main reason is that his current cap hit had 1.6mil in bonuses accounted. So it gets added to the extension bonuses and spread over the extension (including this year) and in essence increases hit cap hit by less than $1mil for this year. Rkarp said he heard talk it actually saves $1.4mil this year which could also be the case but safe to say it did effect his cap number by more or less around $1mil. Not exactly a cap buster on that one and not really a reason to have all that extra room if that's what you are trying to get at. However, if they extend say McCourty (~$2.3mil cap hit this year) there is a fair chance his cap hit could increase by more than $2mil which would be a good reason to keep that kind of extra money around. 

     

     

     

     

     



    The official number is available on the NFLPA web site.  Pats are currently listed as 7.4 million below.  

     

     

     




     

     

    How does 7.4mil cap room compare to the other teams in the league?



    https://nflplayers.com/reports/RunPublicReport.aspx?report=top51

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from getdrunkstupit. Show getdrunkstupit's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    talib is gone after this year.  don't kid yourselves

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to coolade2's comment:

     

     


    The official number is available on the NFLPA web site.  Pats are currently listed as 7.4 million below. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    How does 7.4mil cap room compare to the other teams in the league?

    [/QUOTE]

    Edited:
    Average today is 6.5.

     

    https://nflplayers.com/reports/RunPublicReport.aspx?report=top51

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

     

     


    The official number is available on the NFLPA web site.  Pats are currently listed as 7.4 million below. 

     

     

    How does 7.4mil cap room compare to the other teams in the league?

    [/QUOTE]

    Edited:
    Average today is 6.5.

     

    https://nflplayers.com/reports/RunPublicReport.aspx?report=top51

    [/QUOTE]
    thanks for getting that number, which is relevant since there is no obligation for teams to spend to the cap.

    Looking at the list, there are several teams in the 20mil under  ballpark with Jacksonville the dubious leader at 29 mil under ...?

    Safe to surmise that small market team like jax might have trouble making payroll... ?

    Patriots of course do not have that problem, but do have a prudent-to-a-fault business sense which pads their coffers for unknown emergencies, perhaps?

    Like....  ( please feel free to insert plausible scenario where the 7.4mil would be used).  I dunno,  injuries of course could happen , but you would think the cba would have provisions for that.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from fl+adam,. Show fl+adam,'s posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    emergency trades are the obvious 1st possibility.  Trying not to jinx things, but were a certain DT were to go out for the year the pats would be forces to go get someone, quick, and at great expense in $ and picks for sure.

     

    Even Brady has at least a competent backup...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to IndianaPatsFan's comment:

     

    Sorry to throw a wrench into the plans of the "just re-sign everybody" crowd, but there's this little obstacle called the salary cap. The Pats, like all NFL teams, have to make tough choices. Important players like Brady, Vollmer, Mankins, Gronk, Big Vince, and Mayo have received their big pay days, and other like Spikes, McCourty, Talib, Wendell, and Solder are coming due.

    We are free to throw out our opinions here, but we REALLY don't see the whole picture like the Patriots organization does.
    M H K

     



    Mayo is grossly overpaid and overrated. Up until 2012, he's been mediocre at best, a liability in coverage at worse. 2012 was a career year for him. He's been terrible (primarily against the run) so far in 2013. Mayo is a weak side 4-3 LB, not a hard position to replace. Spikes has been consistent against the run his whole career, plays the Mike, and brings a nastiness to the Pats D.

     

    If the Pats let Spikes walk and continue to overpay Mayo, it would be another blunder by the Pats GM.
     

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to PATSchampsSB's comment:

    re-sign Talib



    I would like to resign Spikes but I would Love to resign Talib!

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to CubanPete's comment:

    In response to IndianaPatsFan's comment:

     

    Sorry to throw a wrench into the plans of the "just re-sign everybody" crowd, but there's this little obstacle called the salary cap. The Pats, like all NFL teams, have to make tough choices. Important players like Brady, Vollmer, Mankins, Gronk, Big Vince, and Mayo have received their big pay days, and other like Spikes, McCourty, Talib, Wendell, and Solder are coming due.

    We are free to throw out our opinions here, but we REALLY don't see the whole picture like the Patriots organization does.
    M H K

     



    Mayo is grossly overpaid and overrated. Up until 2012, he's been mediocre at best, a liability in coverage at worse. 2012 was a career year for him. He's been terrible (primarily against the run) so far in 2013. Mayo is a weak side 4-3 LB, not a hard position to replace. Spikes has been consistent against the run his whole career, plays the Mike, and brings a nastiness to the Pats D.

     

    If the Pats let Spikes walk and continue to overpay Mayo, it would be another blunder by the Pats GM.
     

     



    Not a very insightful post. It is clear to coaches and scouts that Mayo is significantly more valuable a player than Spikes. I like Spikes a lot but he does not have the abilities of Mayo. That is one reason Mayo is a LEADER on this D and this team.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to portfolio1's comment:

    In response to CubanPete's comment:

     

    In response to IndianaPatsFan's comment:

     

    Sorry to throw a wrench into the plans of the "just re-sign everybody" crowd, but there's this little obstacle called the salary cap. The Pats, like all NFL teams, have to make tough choices. Important players like Brady, Vollmer, Mankins, Gronk, Big Vince, and Mayo have received their big pay days, and other like Spikes, McCourty, Talib, Wendell, and Solder are coming due.

    We are free to throw out our opinions here, but we REALLY don't see the whole picture like the Patriots organization does.
    M H K

     



    Mayo is grossly overpaid and overrated. Up until 2012, he's been mediocre at best, a liability in coverage at worse. 2012 was a career year for him. He's been terrible (primarily against the run) so far in 2013. Mayo is a weak side 4-3 LB, not a hard position to replace. Spikes has been consistent against the run his whole career, plays the Mike, and brings a nastiness to the Pats D.

     

    If the Pats let Spikes walk and continue to overpay Mayo, it would be another blunder by the Pats GM.
     

     

     



    Not a very insightful post. It is clear to coaches and scouts that Mayo is significantly more valuable a player than Spikes. I like Spikes a lot but he does not have the abilities of Mayo. That is one reason Mayo is a LEADER on this D and this team.

     




    I like them both and they clearly compliment each other . Re-sign your tough guy since he's the only edgy , bad asz you got to set the frkn tone.  Not sure how the rest of this board misses that. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to coolade2's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to coolade2's comment:

     

     


    The official number is available on the NFLPA web site.  Pats are currently listed as 7.4 million below. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    How does 7.4mil cap room compare to the other teams in the league?

     

     

    Edited:
    Average today is 6.5.

     

    https://nflplayers.com/reports/RunPublicReport.aspx?report=top51

    [/QUOTE]
    thanks for getting that number, which is relevant since there is no obligation for teams to spend to the cap.

    Looking at the list, there are several teams in the 20mil under  ballpark with Jacksonville the dubious leader at 29 mil under ...?

    Safe to surmise that small market team like jax might have trouble making payroll... ?

    Patriots of course do not have that problem, but do have a prudent-to-a-fault business sense which pads their coffers for unknown emergencies, perhaps?

    Like....  ( please feel free to insert plausible scenario where the 7.4mil would be used).  I dunno,  injuries of course could happen , but you would think the cba would have provisions for that.

    [/QUOTE]

    If you click the link again (as of Wed morning), you'll see the Pats' number has now dropped to 6.9 million.  That spreadsheet is updated three times a day, so it changes frequently.  I'm assuming the drop has something to do with Nink's deal, though I don't know for sure. 

    I think the Pats like to keep a little room to work with in case they decide to do a deal in season (like the Talib deal last year).   Plus, they also have to be thinking ahead to next season.  If they sign too many guys this year, they could end up with little room to maneuver down the road.  There are lots of factors. 

    The teams that are well below the cap will eventually have to spend some of that money because there is a floor too (I'd have to check when it comes into effect and how it's calculated to understand exactly how much pressure they're under to spend).  You may be right that some teams are trying to control expenses and hold off making payments until their revenues increase.  Other teams may be below simply because of where they are in their various rebuilding plans or because their contracts will accelerate in cost next year.  

    Overall, though, I'm comfortable with where the Pats are.  I don't buy for a moment that the Pats are cheap.  Kraft and Belichick just want to use their allowed cap space as wisely as possible. It's not a matter of saving money for Bob Kraft--it's a matter of managing their allowed budget smartly so they don't get in a position where they have no flexibility to adjust to changing conditions. 

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to coolade2's comment:

     

     


    The official number is available on the NFLPA web site.  Pats are currently listed as 7.4 million below. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    How does 7.4mil cap room compare to the other teams in the league?

     

     

    Edited:
    Average today is 6.5.

     

    https://nflplayers.com/reports/RunPublicReport.aspx?report=top51


    thanks for getting that number, which is relevant since there is no obligation for teams to spend to the cap.

    Looking at the list, there are several teams in the 20mil under  ballpark with Jacksonville the dubious leader at 29 mil under ...?

    Safe to surmise that small market team like jax might have trouble making payroll... ?

    Patriots of course do not have that problem, but do have a prudent-to-a-fault business sense which pads their coffers for unknown emergencies, perhaps?

    Like....  ( please feel free to insert plausible scenario where the 7.4mil would be used).  I dunno,  injuries of course could happen , but you would think the cba would have provisions for that.

    [/QUOTE]

    If you click the link again (as of Wed morning), you'll see the Pats' number has now dropped to 6.9 million.  That spreadsheet is updated three times a day, so it changes frequently.  I'm assuming the drop has something to do with Nink's deal, though I don't know for sure. 

    I think the Pats like to keep a little room to work with in case they decide to do a deal in season (like the Talib deal last year).   Plus, they also have to be thinking ahead to next season.  If they sign too many guys this year, they could end up with little room to maneuver down the road.  There are lots of factors. 

    The teams that are well below the cap will eventually have to spend some of that money because there is a floor too (I'd have to check when it comes into effect and how it's calculated to understand exactly how much pressure they're under to spend).  You may be right that some teams are trying to control expenses and hold off making payments until their revenues increase.  Other teams may be below simply because of where they are in their various rebuilding plans or because their contracts will accelerate in cost next year.  

    Overall, though, I'm comfortable with where the Pats are.  I don't buy for a moment that the Pats are cheap.  Kraft and Belichick just want to use their allowed cap space as wisely as possible. It's not a matter of saving money for Bob Kraft--it's a matter of managing their allowed budget smartly so they don't get in a position where they have no flexibility to adjust to changing conditions. 

     

    [/QUOTE]
     

    I did some more research trying to understand "dead money".   Some things are so convoluted it makes you go ... Wouldn't it be better if it was more straightforward?

    One question that came out of your post was the talib deal... how much did that trade affect the cap last year...?

    My earlier assumption that a resigning doesnt kill your cap space necessarily was proven by the nink deal only moving the cap # by 0.4mil .  (the detailed numbers are here:)

     

    http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=new-england-patriots&id=4749601&city=boston

     

    nink sure looks like a bargain but what a player he has become.  Talk about instincts and playmaking...  Reminds me of bruschi in that sense , nose for the ball,etc.

    This brings me to the relative value of different positions.  Nink at de /olb - 2m plus  mayo ilb-  4mil plus.  Talib CB 5mil.  Mcc...?  Spikes...? 

    My thought is get spikes to sign somewhere in the nink range.  This makes sense for a 2 down ilb since it is a more difficult position to play (and fill). Plus you get that infectious attitude.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to portfolio1's comment:

     

    In response to CubanPete's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to IndianaPatsFan's comment:

     

    Sorry to throw a wrench into the plans of the "just re-sign everybody" crowd, but there's this little obstacle called the salary cap. The Pats, like all NFL teams, have to make tough choices. Important players like Brady, Vollmer, Mankins, Gronk, Big Vince, and Mayo have received their big pay days, and other like Spikes, McCourty, Talib, Wendell, and Solder are coming due.

    We are free to throw out our opinions here, but we REALLY don't see the whole picture like the Patriots organization does.
    M H K

     



    Mayo is grossly overpaid and overrated. Up until 2012, he's been mediocre at best, a liability in coverage at worse. 2012 was a career year for him. He's been terrible (primarily against the run) so far in 2013. Mayo is a weak side 4-3 LB, not a hard position to replace. Spikes has been consistent against the run his whole career, plays the Mike, and brings a nastiness to the Pats D.

     

    If the Pats let Spikes walk and continue to overpay Mayo, it would be another blunder by the Pats GM.
     

     

     

     



    Not a very insightful post. It is clear to coaches and scouts that Mayo is significantly more valuable a player than Spikes. I like Spikes a lot but he does not have the abilities of Mayo. That is one reason Mayo is a LEADER on this D and this team.

     

     

     



    I look at data from PFF. They review game film and examine every play. Therefore the key is to pick the source(s) you trust the most. I trust them. They reveal stuff that doesn't make the box score. Take the Bucs game for example. The boxscore shows that Safety, Mark Barron, had a terrific game. He led the Bucs with 9 tackles, an INT, and a sack. PFF graded him at 0.1. Why? He allowed Dobson to get behind him in the end zone only for Brady to miss the mark. Earlier, he bit on a play fake and allowed one of two WRs to get behind him, deep, only for Brady to miss the mark again. If Brady didn't suck in that game, Barron would have been a laughingstock. Those plays don't make the boxscore.

     

    As for Mayo. He's been mediocre from 2008-2010:

    PFF Grades:

    2008 -11.1

    2009 -8.7

    2010 +0.1

    2011 +5.8

    2012 +17.1

    2013 -4.9 (dead last among 4-3 OLBs)

    Ironically, I wouldn't have gotten on this if Mayo hadn't started so poorly in 2013. Based on the totality of his career, he wouldn't be my first choice with the 10th overall pick, and I don't think he's worth the money he's making right now.

    As for Spikes:

    2010 +14.6

    2011 +6.2

    2012 +10.0

    2013 +1.6

    NOTE: Season scores are cumulative.

    That said, you respond with your own subjective opinions about coaches and leadership. Yeah, that's insightful.

    Speaking of "leadership" it was "clear" to Belichick that Patrick Chung should be taken over his teammate Jarius Byrd because Chung was a "leader" who "made the defensive calls". Other team leaders: Guss Scott, Dexter Reid, etc.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    Mayo's numbers got better when Spikes joined the team. I don't think it's a coincidence.

     

    ...the King of the Rumba Beat...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to CubanPete's comment:

    In response to portfolio1's comment:

     

    In response to CubanPete's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to IndianaPatsFan's comment:

     

    Sorry to throw a wrench into the plans of the "just re-sign everybody" crowd, but there's this little obstacle called the salary cap. The Pats, like all NFL teams, have to make tough choices. Important players like Brady, Vollmer, Mankins, Gronk, Big Vince, and Mayo have received their big pay days, and other like Spikes, McCourty, Talib, Wendell, and Solder are coming due.

    We are free to throw out our opinions here, but we REALLY don't see the whole picture like the Patriots organization does.
    M H K

     



    Mayo is grossly overpaid and overrated. Up until 2012, he's been mediocre at best, a liability in coverage at worse. 2012 was a career year for him. He's been terrible (primarily against the run) so far in 2013. Mayo is a weak side 4-3 LB, not a hard position to replace. Spikes has been consistent against the run his whole career, plays the Mike, and brings a nastiness to the Pats D.

     

    If the Pats let Spikes walk and continue to overpay Mayo, it would be another blunder by the Pats GM.
     

     

     

     



    Not a very insightful post. It is clear to coaches and scouts that Mayo is significantly more valuable a player than Spikes. I like Spikes a lot but he does not have the abilities of Mayo. That is one reason Mayo is a LEADER on this D and this team.

     

     

     



    I look at data from PFF. They review game film and examine every play. Therefore the key is to pick the source(s) you trust the most. I trust them. They reveal stuff that doesn't make the box score. Take the Bucs game for example. The boxscore shows that Safety, Mark Barron, had a terrific game. He led the Bucs with 9 tackles, an INT, and a sack. PFF graded him at 0.1. Why? He allowed Dobson to get behind him in the end zone only for Brady to miss the mark. Earlier, he bit on a play fake and allowed one of two WRs to get behind him, deep, only for Brady to miss the mark again. If Brady didn't suck in that game, Barron would have been a laughingstock. Those plays don't make the boxscore.

     

    As for Mayo. He's been mediocre from 2008-2010:

    PFF Grades:

    2008 -11.1

    2009 -8.7

    2010 +0.1

    2011 +5.8

    2012 +17.1

    2013 -4.9 (dead last among 4-3 OLBs)

    Ironically, I wouldn't have gotten on this if Mayo hadn't started so poorly in 2013. Based on the totality of his career, he wouldn't be my first choice with the 10th overall pick, and I don't think he's worth the money he's making right now.

    As for Spikes:

    2010 +14.6

    2011 +6.2

    2012 +10.0

    2013 +1.6

    NOTE: Season scores are cumulative.

    That said, you respond with your own subjective opinions about coaches and leadership. Yeah, that's insightful.

    Speaking of "leadership" it was "clear" to Belichick that Patrick Chung should be taken over his teammate Jarius Byrd because Chung was a "leader" who "made the defensive calls". Other team leaders: Guss Scott, Dexter Reid, etc.




    Gus Scott!  lol, Oh My! Two for one busts that year on safeties....

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to CubanPete's comment:

    As for Mayo. He's been mediocre from 2008-2010:

    PFF Grades:

    2008 -11.1

    2009 -8.7

    2010 +0.1

    2011 +5.8

    2012 +17.1

    2013 -4.9 (dead last among 4-3 OLBs)

    Ironically, I wouldn't have gotten on this if Mayo hadn't started so poorly in 2013. Based on the totality of his career, he wouldn't be my first choice with the 10th overall pick, and I don't think he's worth the money he's making right now.

    As for Spikes:

    2010 +14.6

    2011 +6.2

    2012 +10.0

    2013 +1.6

    NOTE: Season scores are cumulative.



    Spikes comes off the field in obvious passing situations which also happens to be his biggest weakness.  Comparing PFF grades between a player that doesn't come off the field and a player that gets to come off in unfavorable situations isn't apples to apples.  I like Spikes and would like to see him stay a Patriot, but to my knowledge PFF has no way to adjust for this discrepancy.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    Continuity from last year is one reason the D has started strong... Plus the key additions of rookies and Kelly.

     

    This should not be discounted.  If you have a winning combination.  Wrap your arms and legs around it and hold on for dear life.  Anybody enjoy winning 3 SBs in 4  years...?  Go and look at the turnover from year to year with the defense.  Not so much, eh?

    this is the point.  The stats and ratings back up what should be slapping people and BB upside the head... No need to mess around with the waiver wire and sh:t.  the unit is complete ... tweak the game plan , the pieces are there (finally).

    BB was in his crouch Sunday, doing his signature move... Shouting instructions to his D...  Love that...!

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to CubanPete's comment:

    In response to portfolio1's comment:

     

    In response to CubanPete's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to IndianaPatsFan's comment:

     

    Sorry to throw a wrench into the plans of the "just re-sign everybody" crowd, but there's this little obstacle called the salary cap. The Pats, like all NFL teams, have to make tough choices. Important players like Brady, Vollmer, Mankins, Gronk, Big Vince, and Mayo have received their big pay days, and other like Spikes, McCourty, Talib, Wendell, and Solder are coming due.

    We are free to throw out our opinions here, but we REALLY don't see the whole picture like the Patriots organization does.
    M H K

     



    Mayo is grossly overpaid and overrated. Up until 2012, he's been mediocre at best, a liability in coverage at worse. 2012 was a career year for him. He's been terrible (primarily against the run) so far in 2013. Mayo is a weak side 4-3 LB, not a hard position to replace. Spikes has been consistent against the run his whole career, plays the Mike, and brings a nastiness to the Pats D.

     

    If the Pats let Spikes walk and continue to overpay Mayo, it would be another blunder by the Pats GM.
     

     

     

     



    Not a very insightful post. It is clear to coaches and scouts that Mayo is significantly more valuable a player than Spikes. I like Spikes a lot but he does not have the abilities of Mayo. That is one reason Mayo is a LEADER on this D and this team.

     

     

     



    I look at data from PFF. They review game film and examine every play. Therefore the key is to pick the source(s) you trust the most. I trust them. They reveal stuff that doesn't make the box score. Take the Bucs game for example. The boxscore shows that Safety, Mark Barron, had a terrific game. He led the Bucs with 9 tackles, an INT, and a sack. PFF graded him at 0.1. Why? He allowed Dobson to get behind him in the end zone only for Brady to miss the mark. Earlier, he bit on a play fake and allowed one of two WRs to get behind him, deep, only for Brady to miss the mark again. If Brady didn't suck in that game, Barron would have been a laughingstock. Those plays don't make the boxscore.

     

    As for Mayo. He's been mediocre from 2008-2010:

    PFF Grades:

    2008 -11.1

    2009 -8.7

    2010 +0.1

    2011 +5.8

    2012 +17.1

    2013 -4.9 (dead last among 4-3 OLBs)

    Ironically, I wouldn't have gotten on this if Mayo hadn't started so poorly in 2013. Based on the totality of his career, he wouldn't be my first choice with the 10th overall pick, and I don't think he's worth the money he's making right now.

    As for Spikes:

    2010 +14.6

    2011 +6.2

    2012 +10.0

    2013 +1.6

    NOTE: Season scores are cumulative.

    That said, you respond with your own subjective opinions about coaches and leadership. Yeah, that's insightful.

    Speaking of "leadership" it was "clear" to Belichick that Patrick Chung should be taken over his teammate Jarius Byrd because Chung was a "leader" who "made the defensive calls". Other team leaders: Guss Scott, Dexter Reid, etc.




    Good post but the numbers are quite ambiguous, and hopefully not subjective.  I don't think mayo is that bad but if you accept that the numbers have some merit, at least spikes is playing well (which supports the premise of the thread.)

    The other point that stood out was that mayos numbers went up when spikes was on the team.  This is difficult to prove since they were not always on the field together, but intuitively you can see how having a bigger tougher guy next to you might elevate your confidence and maybe push you a bit.

    The paper pushers will point to mayo being a step faster which doesn't come into play always.  I think spikes gets off blocks better.  mayo is a great pure tackler. 

    This just in....  BOTH guys are good.

    Liked the point about "leadership".  When spikes put BALLARD on his back with that seemingly effortless hit to the chest(video is in this article:)

    http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1685136-how-can-brandon-spikes-earn-a-big-contract-for-2014

     

      That is leadership. The 4th and 1 stop last Sunday... same thing.  Hard clean hits. This next article talks about his motivation and closeness with coach Pepper Johnson.

     

    http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/the_blitz/2013/08/brandon_spikes_doesnt_care_about_the_contract_nobody_remembers

     

    Re-sign the guy.  Period.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rochrist. Show rochrist's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to CubanPete's comment:

     

    Mayo is grossly overpaid and overrated. Up until 2012, he's been mediocre at best, a liability in coverage at worse. 2012 was a career year for him. He's been terrible (primarily against the run) so far in 2013. Mayo is a weak side 4-3 LB, not a hard position to replace. Spikes has been consistent against the run his whole career, plays the Mike, and brings a nastiness to the Pats D.

     

    If the Pats let Spikes walk and continue to overpay Mayo, it would be another blunder by the Pats GM.
     




    Pretty rich to talk about Mayo being deficient in pass coverage in a thread talking about resigning Spikes. That guy couldn't cover a receiver in a wheelchair.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: re-sign Spikes

    In response to rochrist's comment:

     

    In response to CubanPete's comment:

     

     

     

    Mayo is grossly overpaid and overrated. Up until 2012, he's been mediocre at best, a liability in coverage at worse. 2012 was a career year for him. He's been terrible (primarily against the run) so far in 2013. Mayo is a weak side 4-3 LB, not a hard position to replace. Spikes has been consistent against the run his whole career, plays the Mike, and brings a nastiness to the Pats D.

     

    If the Pats let Spikes walk and continue to overpay Mayo, it would be another blunder by the Pats GM.
     

     

     




     

     

    Pretty rich to talk about Mayo being deficient in pass coverage in a thread talking about resigning Spikes. That guy couldn't cover a receiver in a wheelchair.




     

     

    Say that to his face, beatch... . Point being LBs often drop into coverage and patrol an area.  Spikes has decent hands and can elevate, but catch a ball near him and he thumps people big time.  He knows how to line them up.  See video in my last post and then check on shon green of the jets who ran into spikes last year (or was that '11)..  Ouch. 

     
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