re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.

    rkarp - Mills hasn't been able to get separation in his 5 years in the league. Mills is a lower ranked JAG at best. For what Mills provides in the passing game either Smith or Yeatman would provide.

    I don't know why you think Mills can provide anything more then either of these younger players but Mills isn't making the team over either.

    I agree Smith's blocking hasn't been up to par but have you been watching Yeatman block? He's been very good at sealing the edge and getting out in front of the runner. Both need work but both are showing promise. BB just doesn't let guys with high promise go so why would he basically just release Smith and Yeatman (as you said they aren't making it through waivers so it's as good as being released) to downgrade to a much lesser version of Watson who's a JAG (Mills)? It makes no sense. I could see maybe letting one go but not both.
     
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    Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.

    rkarp - you're saying it's not Mills it's the teams he's been on as the reason he has a total of 9 rec in his entire career? Are you friends with Mills?

    If Mills was able to get better separation or be a better player he would have more opportunities. The lack of opportunities on teams that didn't have great TE's to begin with is indicative to the player Mills is. On top of that the worse the QB the more they tend to rely on shorter passes that utilize TE's. Just look at Sanchez and Keller for example, any Oak QB and Miller, 49er's and Davis, Clev and Watson. Even starting 3 games for a Phi team last year he only got 2 rec's. If he could get open don't you think they would have used him a bit better?

    Besides given that you have Hernandez as a receiving TE and Gronk as a red zone and blocking TE wouldn't it be wiser to have a 2nd blocking TE considering the amount of 2-3 TE sets we have been running instead of an undersized receiving only TE?
     
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    Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.

    In Response to Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.:
    Easy, tell Yeatmann he's got a place in the future of the Patriots but he has to go out and drop 2 passes and miss a block against Detroit so he can clear waivers for sure. no just kidding..but I bet it has been done before
    Posted by patsbandwagonsince76


    That's not fair to the guy.  BB only tosses plays and games with tried and true players.  Examples: 

    1.  Backup QB Doug Flutie kicked a pooch punt through the crossbars before halftime.  Does this sound like the coach wanted more points to eventually win the game?  No way.  Pooch-punting an extra point is a way of risking one point unnecessarily.

    2.  Later in that game, the winning pass was muffed.  It was a final week of the season, and losing the game got New England a worse seed but a better opponent.

    3.  On a punt from the 1 yard line, with the defense ready to bring it, the center hiked the ball far over the punter's head and out of the endzone.  The play is credited with helping New England win the game.

    4.  I think Brian Hoyer tossed some ridiculous passes last preseason.

    5.  I think Ryan Mallett tossed some ridiculous passes last game. 

    In Yeatman's case, first, the ruse might not work.  Second, it wouldn't be fair to the Patriots' long-term rep that if you sign with the Pats, you have a better chance at a job overall.
     
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    Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.

    If Lee Smith were to bust his rookie in the next game, yes, he'd go straight to IR and he'd be available in 12 months when he has learned the playbook.   BB can't be intentionally deceptive, but guess who gets a job on special teams the next two weeks?
     
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    Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.

    In Response to Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.:
    In Response to Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone. : A teams QB is not indicative on how they scheme to use a TE. BAsed on your assumption, Brady and the Pats TE's prove you incorrect. Mills did not start 3 games for the Eagles last year as Celek started 15 games, and with Vick as the QB his rcpts were down from 76 to 42. Having Jackson, Macklin and Avent as well as Celek does not leave any secondary TE with looks. I am not here to sell Mills on you. Obviously BB see's something you don't, and Smith and Yeatman are very much on the bubble. No another blocking TE is not paramount. Now that Light is back on the field, I have seen in practice that Solder is lining up as that 3rd blocking TE, creating additional roster flexibility.
    Posted by rkarp


    A good QB is going to find a receiver regardless but a bad QB will look to check downs and use their safety blankets (usually TE's), that isn't that hard to understand. A square is also a rectangle but a rectangle isn't always a square type of deal.

    If you check NFL.com he is listed as a 3 games starter for the Eagles, so I'm going to say I was right on that one. I also like how you say Brady finds his TE's but because Vick had to many options he never went to his TE. If Mills could get open I think Vick would have went to him more often.

    BTW BB brings in camp bodies all the time, it doesn't mean that they stick. Sometimes he brings them in just for competition and nothing else. He's admitted to doing just that. From what I've seen there is no way Mills makes the two over either of Smith or Yeatman.
     
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    Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.

    I think he be gone; we can do better at 53 man cut down time if BB wants another experienced TE.
     
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    Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.

    In Response to Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.:
    rkarp - Mills hasn't been able to get separation in his 5 years in the league. Mills is a lower ranked JAG at best. For what Mills provides in the passing game either Smith or Yeatman would provide. I don't know why you think Mills can provide anything more then either of these younger players but Mills isn't making the team over either. I agree Smith's blocking hasn't been up to par but have you been watching Yeatman block? He's been very good at sealing the edge and getting out in front of the runner. Both need work but both are showing promise. BB just doesn't let guys with high promise go so why would he basically just release Smith and Yeatman (as you said they aren't making it through waivers so it's as good as being released) to downgrade to a much lesser version of Watson who's a JAG (Mills)? It makes no sense. I could see maybe letting one go but not both.
    Posted by PatsEng


    yeatman is blocking like a beast on the plays ive seen
     
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    Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.

    yeatmann will clear waivers... nobody is gonna take the risk with a lacrosse player... only BB
     
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    Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.

    after tehy have seen them play i would not count on that
     
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    Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.

    In Response to Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.:
    In Response to Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone. : what exactly have you seen from Smith and/or Yeatman that translates into a roster spot? Blocking has not been good for either one. Smith hasn't practiced in quite a few sessions. Other than college game tape, what has Smith shown that impresses you? Yeatman as well? I see the physical potential, it is not yet translating onto the field. Both are not ready and roster spots aren't available.
    Posted by rkarp


    Smith I'll give you I haven't seen much truthfully. But, "Obviously BB see's something you don't" that's why he drafted him.

    With Yeatman I've seen him set the edge, pick up OLB blitzes, play in 2 and 3 TE sets with the 1st team, lead block for Ridley 5 yrds down the field, reverse field on a broken running play and toss a block to break Woodhead. Does he need some work, yep just as any UDFA does (see Arrington, BJGE, Neal) but I'd actually say Yeatman's done a better blocking job this pre-season then Hernandez has which makes him the 2nd best blocking TE on the team right now. Given that we are moving away from the spread package and closer to a 2 TE set with a balanced running game having the extra blocking TE over a 2nd receiving TE makes more sense. And please don't say Solder is going to be that extra blocker in the TE spot. Yes BB has worked him out there but he does that with all his T's. It's part of his heavy I need />ft package.

    Now explain to me in the last 5 yrs what about Mills has impressed you enough to say he should get a spot over either Yeatman or Smith?
     
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    Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.

    In Response to Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.:
    In Response to Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone. : Exactly what I was thinking 5.5 WR's - Ocho, Branch, Welker, Price, Edelman, Harna 3.5 TE's - Gronk, Smith, Yeatman, ndez
    Posted by PatsEng


    lol, i was like "who the hell is Harna".  Well played Sir.
     
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    Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.

    I never described either as a "beast"

    As you said you expect 3 TE's. When looking at BB he has looked long term esp in the TE spot where he typically carries a young prove it TE every year. If he wants to keep either and thinks as we do that neither will clear waivers odds are he'll keep the one with the most potential on the 53 man squad.

    True Crump might be back in that role but given BB's history of keeping young high potential TE's on the 53 man roster it seems more likely he keeps at least one of these guys. But, to dismiss both rooks based on 7 practices at the beginning of the season is a bit short sighted. If that was the case he would have let a number of promising rooks go every year yet it seems he holds on to as many as he can and gives them at least the year to prove themselves, sometimes at the expense of a vet.

    As you said they're not ready yet and well they are only rooks. I haven't seen a lot of rooks come out of pre-season ready. In the last couple of years the only ones that looked like they could start day one were Solder, Mayo, and Gronk. Other then those 3 everyone had issues they need to improve on coming out of camp from Butler at the bad end up to McCourty who was almost the RoY. 2 weeks is not the best sample size to make a judgement on a player, however, the 5 yrs on Mills is enough for me to say he's a JAG 3rd TE on bad to decent teams but for a team loaded like the Pats that has younger high potential TE's there just isn't room
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.

    rkarp, nice to get your opinion actually being at practice and games.
    i could not focus on a player or see them for multiple downs, only what the camera showed. when i saw him blocking, i called yeatman a beast. we will all see what bb decides to do in time. i'm less inclined to debate it. i like to give an opinion and appreciate what happens (and our fortune).

    peace guys
     
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    Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.

    I think unless Yeatman screws up bigtime in the next two preseason games, he makes the team...I also think, given Lee's pedestrian speed for a TE, but his size growth potential, strength and blocking ability, he might be a great OT in a year or two.....so if you see him suddenly grab his leg in either of the next two games, I think he'll be placed on IR and hidden for future use. Spending the next year lifting and getting bigger without losing what speed he has will make him a Steve Maneri clone...not bad.
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.

    In Response to Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.:
    it would also be interesting for those who feel Smith or Yeatman do make the team, who do you think does not make the team? For instance, if 3 TE's are on the roster, are 4 or 5 RB's on the team? 3 QB's? How many DL are on the team? Is Warren on the team? Is Mike Wright on the team? Etc....
    Posted by rkarp


    Well I do think it ends up with 4 RBs with Faulk on the PuP

    I also see only 5 WR's on the team. How you can justify it is that Hernandez is essentially a large WR so you're really carrying 3.5 TEs and 5.5 WRs. Players like Tate who hasn't shown proficiency like Price, lost Brady's trust at the end of last season, and his KR role has been impacted by the rules changes you have to look at would he as a 6th WR be a bigger contributor then a high potential TE for the run game in 2 and 3 TE sets. Given the more balanced attack approach a run blocking TE is more important then Tate's role at this point. When looking at Slater he's a great STer and could still keep that role but if Ihedigbo can provide the same gunning ability then his value as a STer and depth at S is more important then as a 7th WR.

    With Wright I think he's a tragic casualty of his concussion. He hasn't practiced yet so he could end up on the 6 week PuP but Haynesworth, Pyror, Love, Ellis, Warren, and even Carter (he has flexed inside on a couple plays) fills the same role as Wright with less injury risk. He gets squeezed out simply because of the amount of depth for his role and his inability to practice. I think he ends up on the PuP as insurance for injury

    if you want a brakedown here's how I see the roster breaking down, as of today:

    O - 25

    3 - QB's Brady, Mallett, Hoyer
    5 - WR's Ocho, Branch, Welker, Price, Edelman
    4 - TE's Gronk, Hernandez (TE/WR), Smith, Yeatman
    4 - RB's Vereen, Ridley, Woodhead, BJGE
    4 - T's Maneri, Solder, Vollmer, Light
    2 - C's Koppen, Wendell (C/G)
    3 - G's Mankins, Connoly, Ohrn (G/C)

    D - 25

    5 - CB's Bodden, Ras, McCourty, Butler, Arrington
    5 - S's Meri, Chung, Sanders, Brown, Ihedigbo
    6 - LB's Spike, Cunningham (LB/DE), Fletcher, Nin, Mayo, Guyton
    9 - DL's Anderson (DE/LB), Carter, Haynesworth, Wilfork, Ellis, Pyror, Love, Warren, Moore (DE/LB)

    ST - 3

    1 - K Gost
    1 - LS Katula
    1 - P Mesko

    6 week PuP - Brace, Wright, Deadrick, Faulk

    If you want another LB then you might only carry 4 S's or one less DL.
     
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    Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.

    In Response to Re: re: SMITH; does he make the roster, we try and hide him "injured" or is he gone.:
    Excellant list. Excellant team! Note that Wright cannot be placed on PUP as he has already practiced. I believe he is either on the team, IR'd or cut. I am unfamiliar with what Ihedigbo brings on ST...I think if carrying 5 WR's I prefer Slater due to ST, WR and DB in a pinch. Smith and Yeatman over White or Tate? Who is the KR? Price? Edelman?
    Posted by rkarp


    Ihedigbo was a good-great gunner for the Jets, very hard hitting S. Honestly the only reason I would say Ihedigbo over Slater is that we have much deeper and higher talent at WR then S so I like the extra safety but really they are interchangeable. Of course that could change once I see Ihedigbo this Sat as a gunner.

    As I said with Tate, because Hernandez is really a flex player it provides some good depth at WR. If we were a little more towards a spread O like in 07'-09' then Tate would remain on this list but being more balanced 1 blocking TE isn't enough and moving a extra T in limits the potential for play action release passes to TE's. I'd rather have the extra blocking TE then the extra WR. Even BB admitted that the day of having a specialist returner might be over. Someone like Price, Vereen, or even Butler might be able to fill this role. Heck with the shorten time to bring to ball up you might see KR's look more like PR's. In other words less speed guys returning kicks and more elusive runners

    With White, well he's never provided much as a LB. He's many a Izzo STer type. If given the choice though I'd rather have Slater over White. Given if Ihedigbo can make the team do we need a pure ST gunner to play maybe 8-10 plays a game when an extra blocking TE could provide depth in case of a Gronk injury and make our O more balanced with an aggressive running game? I look at it as the extra blocking TE greatly opens the O up for a more flexible and balanced attack which to me at least is more valuable then a ST gunner.

    Wright already practiced? Damn I was hoping he could be pupped because I haven't heard of him practicing yet. It would be tough to let him go but to keep him I think you'd have to give him one of the DLmans spots so who on my list do you release? Maybe, Warren but I do like what Warren gives.
     
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