Real issue with Pats offense

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats-bilbo. Show Pats-bilbo's posts

    Real issue with Pats offense

    No matter who the receivers are, who the running backs are the play of the O-line determines the success or lack of success of the Pats, especially in the playoffs.

    If you look at all the AFC title and superbowl loses you will see that the reason the pats lost was mostly due to the O-line getting manhandled and the Pats struggled to give Brady time and run the ball.

    You can say that Brady missed an open receiver or a reciever dropped a ball but the fact is that when the O-line dominates or at least controls the D-line and Linebackers of the oppostiion, the Pats have a much better chance to win.

    Same can be said for the D-line also, when we get no pressure on the quarterback the D-backs have a hard time and usually fail. The games the Pats loose you will see little impact to the opposing offense by the D-line. 

    I think the key to building the team next year and for years to come is to find the key O-line and D-line players. 

    We need impact players on the D-line that can disrupt the opposing O's game plan. We need some better impact players at DeT and One End. We need to put pressure on the opposing D's offense and force them to be uncomfortable.

    With time and a little space, the Offenses skill positions can hurt the opposing D. Of course having better receivers and healthy Gronk make it easier, but even with the people we have, if Brady has time, he will kill the opposing D. So not saying we don't need improvement in skill positions, only saying that If the O-line was better in big games we would have a much better chance of winning.

    This has probably all been said before, but for this off season, I would really like to see Pats iimprove their O-line and D-line. They are not the glamour picks but they are essential to us winning big games. When the lines are playing solid and pressuring the opponent we are winning no matter the receiver or DB.

    Hope that the new O-line coach can build a mold a more dominant group and that GM BB gives him some better tools to build from. Scarnecchia was a magician and made every player better. BB needs to get the new guy some better players.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    I agree the game is won or lost in the trenches but I'd say they need the weapons too. I don't care how good the OL was this past game we weren't going to win with the receiver core we had at that time. Just no one to throw to. When your 2nd best receiving options signed around x-mas then you are in trouble. The rooks need to step it up, they need another TE who can stay healthy, and they need a legit RZ threat/outside the numbers threat on the O. If they can get that it will makes things easier. Luckily OL doesn't cost nearly as much in resources to fix so imo a vet signing and a mid round draft pick should do wonders but they need to fix the D and get some weapons on the O otherwise we aren't going anywhere

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to PhatVirgin's comment:

    In response to Pats-bilbo's comment:



    Brady is pretty mortal when harassed. Been saying the OL and DL need to be shored up in a huge way.  For the OL, gotta pick some players that can not only protect Brady - but can help block for the run w/o always needing help from TEs/RBs for protection or run blocking.



    You can replace Brady's name with any QB in the league, especially the pocket passers.  If you are not a Kaepernick or Newton, when the pocket breaks down, most do not have the legs to still make a play. Every game what do you hear about defeating a QB like Manning, Brees or Brady?  Put pressure on them.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats-bilbo. Show Pats-bilbo's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    I agree we need more WR weapons, but if you look at 2007 superbowl. The line did not protect Brady and we had good WR weapons. The result was poor offensive performance. We need to give Tom time to throw, he will hit open receivers if he feels he is comfortable and has time. No matter who the receivers are.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to Pats-bilbo's comment:

    I agree we need more WR weapons, but if you look at 2007 superbowl. The line did not protect Brady and we had good WR weapons. The result was poor offensive performance. We need to give Tom time to throw, he will hit open receivers if he feels he is comfortable and has time. No matter who the receivers are.



    I agree I just see it as an easy fix type of deal.

    Mankins, Vollmer/Cannon, Solder are givens and they should be able to hold there own with no issue (provided health). The real concern is RG and C. If they can get a good C I'm less concerned with RG as Connolly does a good enough job if he doesn't have to pull double duty or they might be able to move Cannon inside where he's actually done a good job the few times they tossed him in there. If they go RG then you can move Connolly to C where he's a slight upgrade to Wendell but again if you get a stronger RG with Mankins I have less concern about the C.

    My man concern is there were a lot of times this year where Brady held the ball forever and couldn't find someone to get it to. While the OL might be fixed with a single starting caliber player we'll still see coverage sacks if no one can get open and this is really concerning. It's concerning because Dobson has had trouble getting separation, Edelman who knows if he'll be resigned, Amendola doesn't look nearly as everyone thought he'd be, and Boyce is still a massive question mark. With Vereen and Gronk unable to stay healthy for long stretches who does Brady have that will get open on a regular basis. Before he had a Branch, and a Givens, and a Welker all of which had an ability to find open spots and break off routes to get into those spots. That might be harder to find then an OL player in the end.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to Pats-bilbo's comment:

    No matter who the receivers are, who the running backs are the play of the O-line determines the success or lack of success of the Pats, especially in the playoffs.

    If you look at all the AFC title and superbowl loses you will see that the reason the pats lost was mostly due to the O-line getting manhandled and the Pats struggled to give Brady time and run the ball.

    You can say that Brady missed an open receiver or a reciever dropped a ball but the fact is that when the O-line dominates or at least controls the D-line and Linebackers of the oppostiion, the Pats have a much better chance to win.

    Same can be said for the D-line also, when we get no pressure on the quarterback the D-backs have a hard time and usually fail. The games the Pats loose you will see little impact to the opposing offense by the D-line. 

    I think the key to building the team next year and for years to come is to find the key O-line and D-line players. 

    We need impact players on the D-line that can disrupt the opposing O's game plan. We need some better impact players at DeT and One End. We need to put pressure on the opposing D's offense and force them to be uncomfortable.

    With time and a little space, the Offenses skill positions can hurt the opposing D. Of course having better receivers and healthy Gronk make it easier, but even with the people we have, if Brady has time, he will kill the opposing D. So not saying we don't need improvement in skill positions, only saying that If the O-line was better in big games we would have a much better chance of winning.

    This has probably all been said before, but for this off season, I would really like to see Pats iimprove their O-line and D-line. They are not the glamour picks but they are essential to us winning big games. When the lines are playing solid and pressuring the opponent we are winning no matter the receiver or DB.

    Hope that the new O-line coach can build a mold a more dominant group and that GM BB gives him some better tools to build from. Scarnecchia was a magician and made every player better. BB needs to get the new guy some better players.



    Unveiling the All-Bruschi TeamTedy Bruschi [ARCHIVE ESPNBoston.com | January 24, 2014

     

    When you look around in the huddle and the game is on the line, you want players who are fighters next to you.

     

    Bigger, stronger, faster doesn't apply. I've seen plenty of those guys wilt when the pressure is at its highest.

     

    What are you going to do when facing adversity and a play needs to be made? The second annual All-Bruschi Team recognizes the players who made plays for their team in those situations throughout the 2013 season.

     

    You won't see many of these guys, if any of them, on TV commercials. Not yet. But they are the backbone of their team, players that I truly enjoyed watching this year. They aren't highly celebrated, but they're the flag carriers you need in order to win games.

     

     

     

    OFFENSIVE LINEMENWHY THEY MADE THE TEAMNew England Patriots 

    Offensive lines are usually the closest positional groups on a team. They win together and they go down together, so I'm recognizing them together. The Patriots' offensive line did it all this season. The Patriots were ranked in the top 10 in rushing and passing, and it starts up front where, after the ball is snapped, if there's a breakdown along the offensive line the play has no chance. This offense is complex and this line has had to change its identity on a week-to-week basis. Whatever game-plan coordinator Josh McDaniels dials up, this offensive line can adapt. Put it all together and this is what you get: The gritty play of center Ryan Wendell, the aggressiveness of left guardLogan Mankins, the workmanlike play of Dan Connolly, the keep-it-loose bookend work of left tackle Nate Solder and the resilient Marcus Cannon at right tackle. They overcame the loss of right tackle Sebastian Vollmer, and Mankins even moved to left tackle to cover for the injured Solder against the Ravens in Week 16. This group may have been the most valuable unit of this team, but don't ask them. They'd rather just drink a brewski. 

     

     

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense


    I put Bruschi's article up about the Pats O line being the strongest unit on the team because he is correct and they have been the strongest unit on this team for the majority of our 13 years of dominance. However, no matter how great a unit is, if they are put in a position to fail, they will struggle.

    We have passed 285 attempts to 113 rushes in our last 6 playoff losses. Out of those 113 rushes only 66 have come in power sets where the o line can be the aggressors., where they can push forward instead of playing on their heels. By passing 285 times against great to dominate pass rushing front 7s like the gints, jets, ravens and even broncos, we put our o line into a bad position, and therefore put Tom Brady in a bad position...as his offensive numbers have shown in these losses. 15.5 ppg scored on offense in 6 playoff losses. One dimensional pass heavy finesse offense = struggling at the LOS against dominate pass rushers....

     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxrockursox. Show soxrockursox's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense


    That article isnt showing  alot yards per run,when they ran it,what the score was T.O.P on both sides of the all.Was the run being stopped?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:


    I put Bruschi's article up about the Pats O line being the strongest unit on the team because he is correct and they have been the strongest unit on this team for the majority of our 13 years of dominance. However, no matter how great a unit is, if they are put in a position to fail, they will struggle.

    We have passed 285 attempts to 113 rushes in our last 6 playoff losses. Out of those 113 rushes only 66 have come in power sets where the o line can be the aggressors., where they can push forward instead of playing on their heels. By passing 285 times against great to dominate pass rushing front 7s like the gints, jets, ravens and even broncos, we put our o line into a bad position, and therefore put Tom Brady in a bad position...as his offensive numbers have shown in these losses. 15.5 ppg scored on offense in 6 playoff losses. One dimensional pass heavy finesse offense = struggling at the LOS against dominate pass rushers....



    Yep.

    Once you see the numbers in black and white, it's disturbing.  It really is.  My only quibble is why is Brady signing off on that style of offense if he fails in it?   If Brady simply demanded a run game early and often, he'd get it. He doesn't, so they fall into the trap of thinking he can go without it, if he blesses gameplans, which he does.

    It's not like he doesn't have input in the gameplans.  Of course he does.  Chalk up his preference of the shotgun spread on WEEI radio in 2010, and it's clear why this keeps happening.

    So, just over half of the 113 total runs in those losses were in power sets. Again, disturbing.

    Them passing well over double the rate of running is also disturbing.



    I think it is clear that the coaching staff abandons the run at the 1st sign of adversity, not the QB. Brady doesnt tell what players to come into the game. McD and BB do(although evertime the offense is on the field I see BB on 1 knee coaching the defense but..). Brady makes the best reads he can with the personnel that he is given BY THE COACHES. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to PhatVirgin's comment:

    Brady isn't signing off on anything.  BB is the one dictating/managing game plans, offensive/defensive schemes. Brady has always been a model team player doing as he is instructed to. If it's a lousy game plan due to personnel weakness - that falls on BB's shoulders.



    Why does a lousy game plan have to be due to a personnel weakness. Did we have bad runningbacks this year? No. Did the Broncos stop the run the 1st 2 run plays? Yes. Does that mean keep gunning with little receiving weapons and try to win a gunfight against the best offense in nfl history? 

     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    I'm sure BB would love to know the reasons. I wish I knew the reasons. It was hard to sit there watching that Denver game knowing it was a pizz poor effort by all involved....and at the worst possible time.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    I'm sure BB would love to know the reasons. I wish I knew the reasons. It was hard to sit there watching that Denver game knowing it was a pizz poor effort by all involved....and at the worst possible time.



    EXACTLY!  All the way up to the AFCCG, the team, overall, was performing well to over come all the injuries they have endured throughout the season to get to that game.  To fall, literally, completely flat in that game is a mystery.  But, it happens and we all walk away scratching our heads.

     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcherbrook. Show Fletcherbrook's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    I'm sure BB would love to know the reasons. I wish I knew the reasons. It was hard to sit there watching that Denver game knowing it was a pizz poor effort by all involved....and at the worst possible time.



    EXACTLY!  All the way up to the AFCCG, the team, overall, was performing well to over come all the injuries they have endured throughout the season to get to that game.  To fall, literally, completely flat in that game is a mystery.  But, it happens and we all walk away scratching our heads.



    DId you see Talib go down or not?  How many injuries did you think the D could sustain this year to Pro Bowlers and s hut down the greatest offense, stastically, in NFL history?

    On offense, well, who leads that side of the ball?  

    #12.

    Take it up with him. He looked as ready to get on his private jet with Giselle as I've ever seen him about mid way through the game.



    34-17 pats going away? ummm...ok.

    BB's horrendous game plan. His fastball was flat For that game. Sorry...but true.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    I'm sure BB would love to know the reasons. I wish I knew the reasons. It was hard to sit there watching that Denver game knowing it was a pizz poor effort by all involved....and at the worst possible time.



    EXACTLY!  All the way up to the AFCCG, the team, overall, was performing well to over come all the injuries they have endured throughout the season to get to that game.  To fall, literally, completely flat in that game is a mystery.  But, it happens and we all walk away scratching our heads.



    DId you see Talib go down or not?  How many injuries did you think the D could sustain this year to Pro Bowlers and s hut down the greatest offense, stastically, in NFL history?

    On offense, well, who leads that side of the ball?  

    #12.

    Take it up with him. He looked as ready to get on his private jet with Giselle as I've ever seen him about mid way through the game.



    Your problem, Rusty.. you focus only on Brady..  I see this as a TEAM failure.  Yes, they lost Talib, but, Talib is ONE player, what about the rest of the D?  Like the D-line to put pressure on Manning. Getting some turnovers.  You forgot, I guess, that Brady's stat line for the AFCCG was BETTER than the division game against the Colts.  Which game did they lose?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    BB looked as defeated as TB that game. 

    Brady certainly has struggled in AFCCG for sure. no doubt

    but BB constructs this team and has final in everything right Russ? 

    If so, he needs to step up and run the ball more. Cuz guess what I think BBqanted to throw vs. Denver too . Bb made the gameplan as well he even said so himself 

    blame goes to everyone for not running the bbaall

    brady needs to step up too

     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from msteven. Show msteven's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    Wendell was one of the worse passblocking centers in the league.  The offense need youth along the line.  They were beaten up in several games but got lucky and came back in the second half of many games.  They need to retool the OL and DL.  The WR corps will get better.  They will get a couple of TE's to help.  The running back situation is strong.  LB's are solid.  The secondary will need a safety to replace gregory and a CB to replace Talib.  There are a lot of holes to fill but the first hole needs to be the OL.  Mankins is getting long in the tooth.  Soldier and Volmer are strong.  Cannon provides a good backup.  After that, there is nothing special.  I still look back at the Denver game and think our defense did ok.  They held the Broncos to a reasonable score.  The Offense was the problem.  They could not run the ball becouse they were beaten at the line.  They could not pass the ball becouse Brady had no time.  Even in 2007, the biggest problem for the offense was lack of throwing time.  The last superbowl, Brady was getting sacked in the endzone on the first play of the game. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bungalow-Bill. Show Bungalow-Bill's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:


    I put Bruschi's article up about the Pats O line being the strongest unit on the team because he is correct and they have been the strongest unit on this team for the majority of our 13 years of dominance. However, no matter how great a unit is, if they are put in a position to fail, they will struggle.

    We have passed 285 attempts to 113 rushes in our last 6 playoff losses. Out of those 113 rushes only 66 have come in power sets where the o line can be the aggressors., where they can push forward instead of playing on their heels. By passing 285 times against great to dominate pass rushing front 7s like the gints, jets, ravens and even broncos, we put our o line into a bad position, and therefore put Tom Brady in a bad position...as his offensive numbers have shown in these losses. 15.5 ppg scored on offense in 6 playoff losses. One dimensional pass heavy finesse offense = struggling at the LOS against dominate pass rushers....



    Thanks, BB.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    Brady's not just one of the guys obviously but BB lets the game plans pass for use. He doesn't go against them.

    like Isaid, no doubt Brady needs better AFCCG performances as well

    but I do agree once Talib went down I think we knew the game was over

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share