Real issue with Pats offense

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    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
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    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
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    I put Bruschi's article up about the Pats O line being the strongest unit on the team because he is correct and they have been the strongest unit on this team for the majority of our 13 years of dominance. However, no matter how great a unit is, if they are put in a position to fail, they will struggle.

    We have passed 285 attempts to 113 rushes in our last 6 playoff losses. Out of those 113 rushes only 66 have come in power sets where the o line can be the aggressors., where they can push forward instead of playing on their heels. By passing 285 times against great to dominate pass rushing front 7s like the gints, jets, ravens and even broncos, we put our o line into a bad position, and therefore put Tom Brady in a bad position...as his offensive numbers have shown in these losses. 15.5 ppg scored on offense in 6 playoff losses. One dimensional pass heavy finesse offense = struggling at the LOS against dominate pass rushers....

    [/QUOTE]

    Yep.

    Once you see the numbers in black and white, it's disturbing.  It really is.  My only quibble is why is Brady signing off on that style of offense if he fails in it?   If Brady simply demanded a run game early and often, he'd get it. He doesn't, so they fall into the trap of thinking he can go without it, if he blesses gameplans, which he does.

    It's not like he doesn't have input in the gameplans.  Of course he does.  Chalk up his preference of the shotgun spread on WEEI radio in 2010, and it's clear why this keeps happening.

    So, just over half of the 113 total runs in those losses were in power sets. Again, disturbing.

    Them passing well over double the rate of running is also disturbing.

    [/QUOTE]

    Re: I there is a big black cloud hanging over the Patriots organization.

    posted at 1/26/2014 8:58 PM EST

    • DeadAhead2
    • Posts: 2192
    • First: 1/6/2014
    • Last: 1/27/2014

    In response to m. a. pat's comment:
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    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
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    In response to m. a. pat's comment:
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    In response to NEGAME2's comment:
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    and he's not going to rot he's going on trial  this could be the biggest trial ever with the most coverage  Big time NFL franchise--second only to Cowboys-- HOF coach and quarterback, so many questions about decisions made  yawn my a s s  you all just wait and see!!

    [/QUOTE]


    Things could get ugly for the Pats' organization. There will be a lot of public scrutiny going on and we all know how BB loves distractions.

    Could the coach / GM be called as a character witness for AH after signing him to a big money contract?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    My god are you a moron.   No. BB will not be called as GM and coach of an NFL team who had nothing to do with Aaron Hernandez's adult decisions off the football field.

    This is one of the dumbest troll threads I've seen in a while.   

    [/QUOTE]


    And I've also got a learning disability. Settle down and stop your name calling.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    If you have a learning disability, you shouldn't be posting here. You should be working on your disability by reading books and working with a counselor to help with that.

    [/QUOTE]


    The learning disability is not understanding most of your arguments. The specific one is you've been blaming Brady for the Pats' failures since 2007.

    Yet on the other hand you've been calling Belichick the greatest coach and GM of all time. Explain why BB has kept Brady since 2007 and recently signed him to an extension.

    Are you basically calling BB an idiot while also praising him? Makes no sense and that is the basis of my disability.

    Do you see the flaw in your thinking?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Does BB play the QB position? What QB could be have gotten to improve from Brady in the last 7 or so years?

    Ok, so he didn't take Rodgers. Oh wait, we just won a SB in 2004, so we were picking last and didn't have a crack to Rodgers in the 1st rd of the 2005 draft.

    bawhahahh

    Is it that difficult for you?   BB is the best coach in NFL history and at this rate, the best GM who ever lived, but you can't hold the hand of your HOF QB who makes the mistakes in games HE is responsible for.

    BB is not responsible for Brady's brain or physical actions as the QB. Brady is.

    Very simple.

    This town and the media have given Brady a pass for so long on this stuff, you actually do not even believe the data I post to back his poor play is real.

    Guess what? It is!  It's flippin' real!  lmao

    [/QUOTE]


    Getting a little excited are you? Didn't Brady and the Pats' O give the team the lead in the 2007 and 2011 super bowls only to have the defense give it away in the last few minutes of each game?

    Also BB could have traded Brady after the 2007 or 2011 SB's for a king's ransom of players and picks. Yet he decided to keep Brady with all these flaws you keep bringing up.

    If Brady is the problem according to you, the coach / gm is the bigger problem. Your thinking and comprehension is quite flawed.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, BB should have traded Brady back in 2007 as the league MVP, when he got Moss and Welker in here, or in 2009 with Brady off a blown out ACL and DUE A NEW HUGE DEAL INTO THE LOCKOUT. As if people wouldn't have thought he was crazy?  You implying BB could have even attempted to do that is moronic and disingenuous at best.

    Go away, troll.

    [/QUOTE]


    Name calling as usual when you can't think your way out of something. Have a good night!

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    People who see things in black and white feature low IQs.

    In your world BB had to have traded Brady after 2007 to be able to defend against future Brady choke jobs in AFC title games.

    You're a genius, kiddie!
    wow you just called yourself a person of low IQ!!!!

     
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    Re: Real issue with Pats offense


    Dont get mad at me cause you lie and were caught.How are your legs feeling?Must be tried with all the back pedeling.

     
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    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
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    In response to soxrockursox's comment:
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    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
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    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
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    I put Bruschi's article up about the Pats O line being the strongest unit on the team because he is correct and they have been the strongest unit on this team for the majority of our 13 years of dominance. However, no matter how great a unit is, if they are put in a position to fail, they will struggle.

    We have passed 285 attempts to 113 rushes in our last 6 playoff losses. Out of those 113 rushes only 66 have come in power sets where the o line can be the aggressors., where they can push forward instead of playing on their heels. By passing 285 times against great to dominate pass rushing front 7s like the gints, jets, ravens and even broncos, we put our o line into a bad position, and therefore put Tom Brady in a bad position...as his offensive numbers have shown in these losses. 15.5 ppg scored on offense in 6 playoff losses. One dimensional pass heavy finesse offense = struggling at the LOS against dominate pass rushers....

    [/QUOTE]

    Yep.

    Once you see the numbers in black and white, it's disturbing.  It really is.  My only quibble is why is Brady signing off on that style of offense if he fails in it?   If Brady simply demanded a run game early and often, he'd get it. He doesn't, so they fall into the trap of thinking he can go without it, if he blesses gameplans, which he does.

    It's not like he doesn't have input in the gameplans.  Of course he does.  Chalk up his preference of the shotgun spread on WEEI radio in 2010, and it's clear why this keeps happening.

    So, just over half of the 113 total runs in those losses were in power sets. Again, disturbing.

    Them passing well over double the rate of running is also disturbing.

    [/QUOTE]

    Re: I there is a big black cloud hanging over the Patriots organization.

    posted at 1/26/2014 8:58 PM EST

     

    • DeadAhead2
    • Posts: 2192
    • First: 1/6/2014
    • Last: 1/27/2014

     

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    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
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    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
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    In response to m. a. pat's comment:
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    In response to NEGAME2's comment:
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    and he's not going to rot he's going on trial  this could be the biggest trial ever with the most coverage  Big time NFL franchise--second only to Cowboys-- HOF coach and quarterback, so many questions about decisions made  yawn my a s s  you all just wait and see!!

    [/QUOTE]


    Things could get ugly for the Pats' organization. There will be a lot of public scrutiny going on and we all know how BB loves distractions.

    Could the coach / GM be called as a character witness for AH after signing him to a big money contract?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    My god are you a moron.   No. BB will not be called as GM and coach of an NFL team who had nothing to do with Aaron Hernandez's adult decisions off the football field.

    This is one of the dumbest troll threads I've seen in a while.   

    [/QUOTE]


    And I've also got a learning disability. Settle down and stop your name calling.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    If you have a learning disability, you shouldn't be posting here. You should be working on your disability by reading books and working with a counselor to help with that.

    [/QUOTE]


    The learning disability is not understanding most of your arguments. The specific one is you've been blaming Brady for the Pats' failures since 2007.

    Yet on the other hand you've been calling Belichick the greatest coach and GM of all time. Explain why BB has kept Brady since 2007 and recently signed him to an extension.

    Are you basically calling BB an idiot while also praising him? Makes no sense and that is the basis of my disability.

    Do you see the flaw in your thinking?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Does BB play the QB position? What QB could be have gotten to improve from Brady in the last 7 or so years?

    Ok, so he didn't take Rodgers. Oh wait, we just won a SB in 2004, so we were picking last and didn't have a crack to Rodgers in the 1st rd of the 2005 draft.

    bawhahahh

    Is it that difficult for you?   BB is the best coach in NFL history and at this rate, the best GM who ever lived, but you can't hold the hand of your HOF QB who makes the mistakes in games HE is responsible for.

    BB is not responsible for Brady's brain or physical actions as the QB. Brady is.

    Very simple.

    This town and the media have given Brady a pass for so long on this stuff, you actually do not even believe the data I post to back his poor play is real.

    Guess what? It is!  It's flippin' real!  lmao

    [/QUOTE]


    Getting a little excited are you? Didn't Brady and the Pats' O give the team the lead in the 2007 and 2011 super bowls only to have the defense give it away in the last few minutes of each game?

    Also BB could have traded Brady after the 2007 or 2011 SB's for a king's ransom of players and picks. Yet he decided to keep Brady with all these flaws you keep bringing up.

    If Brady is the problem according to you, the coach / gm is the bigger problem. Your thinking and comprehension is quite flawed.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, BB should have traded Brady back in 2007 as the league MVP, when he got Moss and Welker in here, or in 2009 with Brady off a blown out ACL and DUE A NEW HUGE DEAL INTO THE LOCKOUT. As if people wouldn't have thought he was crazy?  You implying BB could have even attempted to do that is moronic and disingenuous at best.

    Go away, troll.

    [/QUOTE]


    Name calling as usual when you can't think your way out of something. Have a good night!

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    People who see things in black and white feature low IQs.

    In your world BB had to have traded Brady after 2007 to be able to defend against future Brady choke jobs in AFC title games.

    You're a genius, kiddie!
    wow you just called yourself a person of low IQ!!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah. I am well known for not using critical thinking skills, doing my homework on things, and being right most of the time.

    I always knee jerk a reaction to everything. LMAO

    Ugh.

    Please don't procreate, SoxSux

    [/QUOTE]

    Haha we all ready know you are well known for not thinking you didnt need to tell us that.

     
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    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    Let's see.....most people with brains that actually function realize that games are won & lost in the trenches...this can not be argued. Skill players don't mean jack without a win on the line....whether it's on offense or defense.

    These same people seem to realize that this is a TEAM sport, and putting all the blame on one person is beyond ridiculous. But somehow, this makes some people feel better.

    Then we have one of the world's most idiotic posters trying to convince us that it's all Brady's fault. And we continue to laugh at his delusional rantings. It's only been going on for what...3-4 years now?

    Some things never change. Hey Rusty...did TB ever steal your girlfriend? Boink your mom? This ever lasting man hate for one of the best of all time has grown tiresome....there just has to be another reason to hate Mr Brady as you do. Get help....your stupidity is just downright scary...

     
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    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to Pats-bilbo's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    No matter who the receivers are, who the running backs are the play of the O-line determines the success or lack of success of the Pats, especially in the playoffs.

    If you look at all the AFC title and superbowl loses you will see that the reason the pats lost was mostly due to the O-line getting manhandled and the Pats struggled to give Brady time and run the ball.

    You can say that Brady missed an open receiver or a reciever dropped a ball but the fact is that when the O-line dominates or at least controls the D-line and Linebackers of the oppostiion, the Pats have a much better chance to win.

    Same can be said for the D-line also, when we get no pressure on the quarterback the D-backs have a hard time and usually fail. The games the Pats loose you will see little impact to the opposing offense by the D-line. 

    I think the key to building the team next year and for years to come is to find the key O-line and D-line players. 

    We need impact players on the D-line that can disrupt the opposing O's game plan. We need some better impact players at DeT and One End. We need to put pressure on the opposing D's offense and force them to be uncomfortable.

    With time and a little space, the Offenses skill positions can hurt the opposing D. Of course having better receivers and healthy Gronk make it easier, but even with the people we have, if Brady has time, he will kill the opposing D. So not saying we don't need improvement in skill positions, only saying that If the O-line was better in big games we would have a much better chance of winning.

    This has probably all been said before, but for this off season, I would really like to see Pats iimprove their O-line and D-line. They are not the glamour picks but they are essential to us winning big games. When the lines are playing solid and pressuring the opponent we are winning no matter the receiver or DB.

    Hope that the new O-line coach can build a mold a more dominant group and that GM BB gives him some better tools to build from. Scarnecchia was a magician and made every player better. BB needs to get the new guy some better players.

    [/QUOTE]

         Amen, brother. The OL needs to be upgraded. Wendell and Connelly must be replaced. If Vollmer can't go anymore, a RT must be found...as Cannon is best suited to play RG. On the DL, the Pats need a monster DT who can collapse the pass pocket. Vince Wilfolk is 33 and coming off a serious injury. A replacement needs to be found. 

     

     
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    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I put Bruschi's article up about the Pats O line being the strongest unit on the team because he is correct and they have been the strongest unit on this team for the majority of our 13 years of dominance. However, no matter how great a unit is, if they are put in a position to fail, they will struggle.

    We have passed 285 attempts to 113 rushes in our last 6 playoff losses. Out of those 113 rushes only 66 have come in power sets where the o line can be the aggressors., where they can push forward instead of playing on their heels. By passing 285 times against great to dominate pass rushing front 7s like the gints, jets, ravens and even broncos, we put our o line into a bad position, and therefore put Tom Brady in a bad position...as his offensive numbers have shown in these losses. 15.5 ppg scored on offense in 6 playoff losses. One dimensional pass heavy finesse offense = struggling at the LOS against dominate pass rushers....

    [/QUOTE]

    Yep.

    Once you see the numbers in black and white, it's disturbing.  It really is.  My only quibble is why is Brady signing off on that style of offense if he fails in it?   If Brady simply demanded a run game early and often, he'd get it. He doesn't, so they fall into the trap of thinking he can go without it, if he blesses gameplans, which he does.

    It's not like he doesn't have input in the gameplans.  Of course he does.  Chalk up his preference of the shotgun spread on WEEI radio in 2010, and it's clear why this keeps happening.

    So, just over half of the 113 total runs in those losses were in power sets. Again, disturbing.

    Them passing well over double the rate of running is also disturbing.

    [/QUOTE]

    Brady signing off? Surely you mean bb...bb signs off on everything. Didn't you read all the articles about his micro managing style? The offense runs the way it does because bb wants it that way. Period, end of story. To think otherwise, that Brady has some type of full autonomy to just do what he wants is just ignorance. 

    You come on here and all you do is speculate about Brady running the show. Doesn't it make more sense given bb's style that he would have the final word? C'mon Russ, time to prove again how smart you are. 

     
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    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    BB looked as defeated as TB that game. 

    Brady certainly has struggled in AFCCG for sure. no doubt

    but BB constructs this team and has final in everything right Russ? 

    If so, he needs to step up and run the ball more. Cuz guess what I think BBqanted to throw vs. Denver too . Bb made the gameplan as well he even said so himself 

    blame goes to everyone for not running the bbaall

    brady needs to step up too

    [/QUOTE]

    1. You have to admit that when Talib went down, the key chip in attempting to slow down the Denver offense, that would have had a mental drop on the D.  That said, I actually felt they battled as best they could.  There was no quit.  BUt, it had to mentally affect them. It had to have. Anyone who has played sports, where something like that goes down, you react naturally even if you focus on acting like a certain player didn't matter.  Players do matter.

    2. Brady has not stepped up in an AFC title game since 2004.  Even in 2006, his play in he second half was not good. SO, this has been a problem for a long, long time.

    And when I see Brady missing wide open receivers in an offensive style he publicy said he preferred, I want to know when that is going to stop?

    I thought for sure, if there was ONE season where it would be literally impossible for it to happen again, it would be this one. That's why I said even with Gronk hurt, this may work out for the best since Brady would go all binky on the team again. No Gronk, RBs lighting it up, O Line beaslty and blocking so well together, etc.

    But, it all came crashing down due to Brady preferring to come out attacking via the air instead of the ground. Look at the patterns.  vs Cleveland or @ Miami?  All were offensive games that were shotgun spread based/pass happy and we either lost them or barely won (onside kick vs the Browns at home?).  

    BB doesn't come in and tell McDaniels "this is the gameplan" to McD and Brady. They all talk it over and exchanges their thoughts. This isn't some dictatorship here.  Brady can basically control the gameplan here.  I've seen him actually put plays into a playbook with BB accepting it.   THat was 2009!  So, enough with this Brady is "just one of the guys'.

     

    Do you really think John Fox comes into a dimly lit room and tells Manning what he's going to do on game days?

    LMAO

    [/QUOTE]

    yes, there is a general plan I am sure. Fox probably confers with the OC and manning. Once on the field, I am sure manning does what he needs to within the context of the plan or what is working that day. 

    Your weak attempt to take any blame off bb who is uultimately responsible is bordering on obnoxious. I thought you were smart? You said so yourself.

    if Brady isn't following the plan, and bb keeps him in, it's bb's fault.

    if Brady is following the plan and it isn't working, it's bb's fault.

    if brady doesn't listen to bb and hasn't done so over the past 5-6 years, its bb's fault for not replacing him. 

    Like a CEo, bb has ultimate responsibility. If Brady constantly repeats mistakes, doesn't execute and has been doing so for so many years as you say, then its on bb for sticking with him.

     
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    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    In response to msteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Wendell was one of the worse passblocking centers in the league.  The offense need youth along the line.  They were beaten up in several games but got lucky and came back in the second half of many games.  They need to retool the OL and DL.  The WR corps will get better.  They will get a couple of TE's to help.  The running back situation is strong.  LB's are solid.  The secondary will need a safety to replace gregory and a CB to replace Talib.  There are a lot of holes to fill but the first hole needs to be the OL.  Mankins is getting long in the tooth.  Soldier and Volmer are strong.  Cannon provides a good backup.  After that, there is nothing special.  I still look back at the Denver game and think our defense did ok.  They held the Broncos to a reasonable score.  The Offense was the problem.  They could not run the ball becouse they were beaten at the line.  They could not pass the ball becouse Brady had no time.  Even in 2007, the biggest problem for the offense was lack of throwing time.  The last superbowl, Brady was getting sacked in the endzone on the first play of the game. 



    So, then why are we passing so much with lesser passing weapons?

    Are you people this dumb? Why would any of the OL be better if Gronk and Hern in particular are not on the field?

    So, if Wendell isn't doing well down the middle, why aren't we playing to his strengths and running behind his superb run blocking skills? Wendell is also not old.

    We did it for a month and ran amuck, and then we don't use it vs a feeble Denver D Line, where KNighton looks like a cross between Wilfork in his prime and Warren Sapp?

    When will it end?! When?!  

    Brady!  Someone get a hold of Brady! For the love of god!

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's bb's job...obviously he isnt doing it very well...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
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    In response to agcsbill's comment:
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    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:
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    I'm sure BB would love to know the reasons. I wish I knew the reasons. It was hard to sit there watching that Denver game knowing it was a pizz poor effort by all involved....and at the worst possible time.

    [/QUOTE]

    EXACTLY!  All the way up to the AFCCG, the team, overall, was performing well to over come all the injuries they have endured throughout the season to get to that game.  To fall, literally, completely flat in that game is a mystery.  But, it happens and we all walk away scratching our heads.

    [/QUOTE]

    DId you see Talib go down or not?  How many injuries did you think the D could sustain this year to Pro Bowlers and s hut down the greatest offense, stastically, in NFL history?

    On offense, well, who leads that side of the ball?  

    #12.

    Take it up with him. He looked as ready to get on his private jet with Giselle as I've ever seen him about mid way through the game.

    [/QUOTE]


    Well, first, Talib's second half of the season was not as good as his first half. Even if Talib does not go down the Pats still lose that game all day long. It was a complete and total systemic failure. I will never profess to know why but I know what I saw.

     
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    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
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    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
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    I put Bruschi's article up about the Pats O line being the strongest unit on the team because he is correct and they have been the strongest unit on this team for the majority of our 13 years of dominance. However, no matter how great a unit is, if they are put in a position to fail, they will struggle.

    We have passed 285 attempts to 113 rushes in our last 6 playoff losses. Out of those 113 rushes only 66 have come in power sets where the o line can be the aggressors., where they can push forward instead of playing on their heels. By passing 285 times against great to dominate pass rushing front 7s like the gints, jets, ravens and even broncos, we put our o line into a bad position, and therefore put Tom Brady in a bad position...as his offensive numbers have shown in these losses. 15.5 ppg scored on offense in 6 playoff losses. One dimensional pass heavy finesse offense = struggling at the LOS against dominate pass rushers....

    [/QUOTE]

    Yep.

    Once you see the numbers in black and white, it's disturbing.  It really is.  My only quibble is why is Brady signing off on that style of offense if he fails in it?   If Brady simply demanded a run game early and often, he'd get it. He doesn't, so they fall into the trap of thinking he can go without it, if he blesses gameplans, which he does.

    It's not like he doesn't have input in the gameplans.  Of course he does.  Chalk up his preference of the shotgun spread on WEEI radio in 2010, and it's clear why this keeps happening.

    So, just over half of the 113 total runs in those losses were in power sets. Again, disturbing.

    Them passing well over double the rate of running is also disturbing.

    [/QUOTE]

    Brady signing off? Surely you mean bb...bb signs off on everything. Didn't you read all the articles about his micro managing style? The offense runs the way it does because bb wants it that way. Period, end of story. To think otherwise, that Brady has some type of full autonomy to just do what he wants is just ignorance. 

    You come on here and all you do is speculate about Brady running the show. Doesn't it make more sense given bb's style that he would have the final word? C'mon Russ, time to prove again how smart you are. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Umm, what articles on his micromanaging style? By whom? Which anti-BBite in the media wrote those this past week? LOL

    When I see BB on one knee coaching the D and McDaniels calling plays and Brady with full autonomy, that is not micromanaging.

    Please learn the definitions of words you choose to use here, please.

    BB is not an offensive coach. In BB's interview with Cowher, he said Brady is the toughest player he's ever had to coach. 

    Try to use actual, tangible primary sourced material for once like that.

    You might win a debate for once. lmao

    [/QUOTE]

    Nice try Russ. You casually misinterpret the Cowher interview to push your agenda. He said Brady was the hardest to coach because he is the most prepared, sometimes more so than bb himself...

    pi am referring to the Dante stallworth article and others on bb's management styleHe like you, I am also inferring some of this by what I see and hear. 

    Why is bb taking a knee with the defense? Do you see any other coaches doing that regularly? Surely a championship caliber team deserves a better DC than Patricia? Maybe then, bb could keep his head and eyes on the game.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I put Bruschi's article up about the Pats O line being the strongest unit on the team because he is correct and they have been the strongest unit on this team for the majority of our 13 years of dominance. However, no matter how great a unit is, if they are put in a position to fail, they will struggle.

    We have passed 285 attempts to 113 rushes in our last 6 playoff losses. Out of those 113 rushes only 66 have come in power sets where the o line can be the aggressors., where they can push forward instead of playing on their heels. By passing 285 times against great to dominate pass rushing front 7s like the gints, jets, ravens and even broncos, we put our o line into a bad position, and therefore put Tom Brady in a bad position...as his offensive numbers have shown in these losses. 15.5 ppg scored on offense in 6 playoff losses. One dimensional pass heavy finesse offense = struggling at the LOS against dominate pass rushers....

    [/QUOTE]

    Yep.

    Once you see the numbers in black and white, it's disturbing.  It really is.  My only quibble is why is Brady signing off on that style of offense if he fails in it?   If Brady simply demanded a run game early and often, he'd get it. He doesn't, so they fall into the trap of thinking he can go without it, if he blesses gameplans, which he does.

    It's not like he doesn't have input in the gameplans.  Of course he does.  Chalk up his preference of the shotgun spread on WEEI radio in 2010, and it's clear why this keeps happening.

    So, just over half of the 113 total runs in those losses were in power sets. Again, disturbing.

    Them passing well over double the rate of running is also disturbing.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think it is clear that the coaching staff abandons the run at the 1st sign of adversity, not the QB. Brady doesnt tell what players to come into the game. McD and BB do(although evertime the offense is on the field I see BB on 1 knee coaching the defense but..). Brady makes the best reads he can with the personnel that he is given BY THE COACHES. 

    [/QUOTE]

    That's in the game.  That's fine. I want to know why on 3rd and 2, Slater comes in and Brady feels like he has to lob it up for grabs to him. I get that is a McDaniels choice, but it's also a Brady choice.  That's a playcalling discussion. That's on McD and Brady.   That has nothing to do with BB.

    That's absolutely on McDaniels there, but why does Brady feel the need to do that if he has the full autonomy he has?

    I get Tony Carter sucks, but Matt Slater is not a starting WR in this league.

    As for the pre-game or overall philosophy, it just seems like they overthink what they think the other team might think the Pats will do.  BB has part responsibility with this, sure.  I've never said anything different.  But, Brady can also chime in knowing the run game is why that team had been blowing people out for a month.

    Once I heard Troy Brown, amongst others say "don't be surprised if they come out throwing", I cringed. It means they took the bait of Chris Harris going down and are getting away from their current bread and butter (the run game and wearing Ds down).

    Again, over-thought.

    I don't want that over-management of which sthey should use.  Use what you are good at. I want a run game attempted, some power sets, motion, in line TEs, some check downs, screens, etc, to draw the LBs in.    That is what I want every damn game until the D shows they can defend that.  If they can, just go to your shotgun spread stuff as a plan B. Mix in some hurry up with it, and there is your fallback.  We don't even attempt what we're good at?

    And these turds on here who see Blount subbed in and out for oblgigatory, predictable runs can't see that those really don't count as attempting to establish a run, because you're moving Vereen and Blount on and off, which is the tell. If they simply would use two back sets, this would eliminate or help to eliminate that problem.

    I think their pass happy gameplan would have been fine with Gronk out there because Denver's D sucks, but since Denver had no Gronk to worry about, it actually played into their hands.

    We did them a favor by not doubling Knighton, not running inside and outside, and not doing what I just laid out above.

    The idea should have been to wear them down with the run. It was a low scoring game throught the first half, too. Take away the chintzy calls against us (Hooman PI and Logan Ryan's phantom hold), and you have got it close at halftime, possibly something like 10-6 (or better) vs the 13-3 it was.

    From there, you would have hoped you could open it up a bit off playaction and score some points.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Real talk here russ. 1st off, I absolutely agree that bringing in blount and the heavy formation for a 2nd down stuff on back to back opening drives was complete garbage and the very definition of our pas heavy finesse offensive philosophy,  but blaming Brady for throwing to slater is ticky tack.  

    It was a designed play call, you and I both know this. Slater was option 1,2 and 3 with a crossing danny as the safety valve. Unfortunately Danny was open as I remember it which would have been for a 1st down, but Brady saw his option in single coverage as the play was called for! Let those words settle bud.

    They put Brady in that position. These guys you argue with don't want  to try and understand that, they want to bash you because you deserve it for trying to pin this all on Brady when it has been our coaching philosophy to go pass heavy finesse. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I put Bruschi's article up about the Pats O line being the strongest unit on the team because he is correct and they have been the strongest unit on this team for the majority of our 13 years of dominance. However, no matter how great a unit is, if they are put in a position to fail, they will struggle.

    We have passed 285 attempts to 113 rushes in our last 6 playoff losses. Out of those 113 rushes only 66 have come in power sets where the o line can be the aggressors., where they can push forward instead of playing on their heels. By passing 285 times against great to dominate pass rushing front 7s like the gints, jets, ravens and even broncos, we put our o line into a bad position, and therefore put Tom Brady in a bad position...as his offensive numbers have shown in these losses. 15.5 ppg scored on offense in 6 playoff losses. One dimensional pass heavy finesse offense = struggling at the LOS against dominate pass rushers....

    [/QUOTE]

    Yep.

    Once you see the numbers in black and white, it's disturbing.  It really is.  My only quibble is why is Brady signing off on that style of offense if he fails in it?   If Brady simply demanded a run game early and often, he'd get it. He doesn't, so they fall into the trap of thinking he can go without it, if he blesses gameplans, which he does.

    It's not like he doesn't have input in the gameplans.  Of course he does.  Chalk up his preference of the shotgun spread on WEEI radio in 2010, and it's clear why this keeps happening.

    So, just over half of the 113 total runs in those losses were in power sets. Again, disturbing.

    Them passing well over double the rate of running is also disturbing.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think it is clear that the coaching staff abandons the run at the 1st sign of adversity, not the QB. Brady doesnt tell what players to come into the game. McD and BB do(although evertime the offense is on the field I see BB on 1 knee coaching the defense but..). Brady makes the best reads he can with the personnel that he is given BY THE COACHES. 

    [/QUOTE]

    That's in the game.  That's fine. I want to know why on 3rd and 2, Slater comes in and Brady feels like he has to lob it up for grabs to him. I get that is a McDaniels choice, but it's also a Brady choice.  That's a playcalling discussion. That's on McD and Brady.   That has nothing to do with BB.

    That's absolutely on McDaniels there, but why does Brady feel the need to do that if he has the full autonomy he has?

    I get Tony Carter sucks, but Matt Slater is not a starting WR in this league.

    As for the pre-game or overall philosophy, it just seems like they overthink what they think the other team might think the Pats will do.  BB has part responsibility with this, sure.  I've never said anything different.  But, Brady can also chime in knowing the run game is why that team had been blowing people out for a month.

    Once I heard Troy Brown, amongst others say "don't be surprised if they come out throwing", I cringed. It means they took the bait of Chris Harris going down and are getting away from their current bread and butter (the run game and wearing Ds down).

    Again, over-thought.

    I don't want that over-management of which sthey should use.  Use what you are good at. I want a run game attempted, some power sets, motion, in line TEs, some check downs, screens, etc, to draw the LBs in.    That is what I want every damn game until the D shows they can defend that.  If they can, just go to your shotgun spread stuff as a plan B. Mix in some hurry up with it, and there is your fallback.  We don't even attempt what we're good at?

    And these turds on here who see Blount subbed in and out for oblgigatory, predictable runs can't see that those really don't count as attempting to establish a run, because you're moving Vereen and Blount on and off, which is the tell. If they simply would use two back sets, this would eliminate or help to eliminate that problem.

    I think their pass happy gameplan would have been fine with Gronk out there because Denver's D sucks, but since Denver had no Gronk to worry about, it actually played into their hands.

    We did them a favor by not doubling Knighton, not running inside and outside, and not doing what I just laid out above.

    The idea should have been to wear them down with the run. It was a low scoring game throught the first half, too. Take away the chintzy calls against us (Hooman PI and Logan Ryan's phantom hold), and you have got it close at halftime, possibly something like 10-6 (or better) vs the 13-3 it was.

    From there, you would have hoped you could open it up a bit off playaction and score some points.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Real talk here russ. 1st off, I absolutely agree that bringing in blount and the heavy formation for a 2nd down stuff on back to back opening drives was complete garbage and the very definition of our pas heavy finesse offensive philosophy,  but blaming Brady for throwing to slater is ticky tack.  

    It was a designed play call, you and I both know this. Slater was option 1,2 and 3 with a crossing danny as the safety valve. Unfortunately Danny was open as I remember it which would have been for a 1st down, but Brady saw his option in single coverage as the play was called for! Let those words settle bud.

    They put Brady in that position. These guys you argue with don't want  to try and understand that, they want to bash you because you deserve it for trying to pin this all on Brady when it has been our coaching philosophy to go pass heavy finesse. 

    [/QUOTE]

    On the first drive, Vereen was the back on first down and Blount on second down.  On the second drive, Blount was in for both first and second downs. With Blount in on three plays in those two drives, they ran twice and passed once. 

     

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    Honestly, I think the "real issue with the Pats' offense" were defenses that were willing to be aggressive at the LOS and not worry too much about the downfield passing game.  I'll have to watch more film to really be sure, but looking at a random sample of offensive plays (both good and bad), it seems that the Pats really struggled against aggressive LBs or defenses that kept their DBs close to the LOS.  I saw a lot of LBs getting through gaps on stretch plays and making tackles from the backside.  In the Cinncinati game, the stretch blocking schemes on play action passes were easily defeated by aggressive LBs and DLs (Brady was sacked three times on play action passes). In the Miami loss and the Cleveland game, it seemed like both teams sent LBs and DBs aggressively at the LOS at the snap. And Denver loaded the box and kept its LBs just a few yards off the LOS most of the first half.  In contrast, Baltimore played much more conservatively, dropping it's LBs and letting them read and react. Again, I haven't studied the film all that carefully, but my impressions from watching some film was that aggressiveness from the LBs in particular, with lots of upfield and horizontal movement and less dropping back or holding position to read and react, gave the Pats' offense a lot of trouble. 

     

     

     

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    Running games can't be measured until the game is over. Running the ball is a commitment that you need to stick with no matter if you lose 2 yds or gain 3 yds. There aren't many teams in todays NFL with the mindset to make the run game work no matter what. It's handled like a dalliance.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense


    did you guys know that all 6 of Tom Bradys tds passesin our 3 SB victories came off of play action fakes?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Real issue with Pats offense

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I put Bruschi's article up about the Pats O line being the strongest unit on the team because he is correct and they have been the strongest unit on this team for the majority of our 13 years of dominance. However, no matter how great a unit is, if they are put in a position to fail, they will struggle.

    We have passed 285 attempts to 113 rushes in our last 6 playoff losses. Out of those 113 rushes only 66 have come in power sets where the o line can be the aggressors., where they can push forward instead of playing on their heels. By passing 285 times against great to dominate pass rushing front 7s like the gints, jets, ravens and even broncos, we put our o line into a bad position, and therefore put Tom Brady in a bad position...as his offensive numbers have shown in these losses. 15.5 ppg scored on offense in 6 playoff losses. One dimensional pass heavy finesse offense = struggling at the LOS against dominate pass rushers....

    [/QUOTE]

    Yep.

    Once you see the numbers in black and white, it's disturbing.  It really is.  My only quibble is why is Brady signing off on that style of offense if he fails in it?   If Brady simply demanded a run game early and often, he'd get it. He doesn't, so they fall into the trap of thinking he can go without it, if he blesses gameplans, which he does.

    It's not like he doesn't have input in the gameplans.  Of course he does.  Chalk up his preference of the shotgun spread on WEEI radio in 2010, and it's clear why this keeps happening.

    So, just over half of the 113 total runs in those losses were in power sets. Again, disturbing.

    Them passing well over double the rate of running is also disturbing.

    [/QUOTE]

    Brady signing off? Surely you mean bb...bb signs off on everything. Didn't you read all the articles about his micro managing style? The offense runs the way it does because bb wants it that way. Period, end of story. To think otherwise, that Brady has some type of full autonomy to just do what he wants is just ignorance. 

    You come on here and all you do is speculate about Brady running the show. Doesn't it make more sense given bb's style that he would have the final word? C'mon Russ, time to prove again how smart you are. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Umm, what articles on his micromanaging style? By whom? Which anti-BBite in the media wrote those this past week? LOL

    When I see BB on one knee coaching the D and McDaniels calling plays and Brady with full autonomy, that is not micromanaging.

    Please learn the definitions of words you choose to use here, please.

    BB is not an offensive coach. In BB's interview with Cowher, he said Brady is the toughest player he's ever had to coach. 

    Try to use actual, tangible primary sourced material for once like that.

    You might win a debate for once. lmao

    [/QUOTE]


    LOL!!!!!!!   DH, he said he's hard to coach because Brady is smarter than him.

    Try using the source, BB's words, correctly!

     
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