Recent draft history suggests....

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOTBLITZ. Show HOTBLITZ's posts

    Recent draft history suggests....

    1.17 OL  Nate Solder  Colorado  from OAK (Richard Seymour)
    2.01 DB  Ras-I Dowling  Virginia  from CAR
    2.24 RB  Shane Vereen  California  from NO
    3.09 RB  Stevan Ridley  Louisiana State  from HOU
    3.10 QB  Ryan Mallett  Arkansas  from MIN
    5.07 OL  Marcus Cannon  Texas Christian  from HOU
    5.28 TE  Lee Smith  Marshall   
    6.29 LB  Markell Carter  Central Arkansas  from NYJ through PHI
    7.16 DB  Malcolm Williams  Texas Christian  from OAK
     2010
    1.27 DB  Devin McCourty  Rutgers  from DAL
    2.10 TE  Rob Gronkowski  Arizona  from CHI through TB and OAK
    2.21 LB  Jermaine Cunningham  Florida   
    2.30 LB  Brandon Spikes  Florida  from MIN through HOU
    3.26 WR  Taylor Price  Ohio  from DAL
    4.15 TE  Aaron Hernandez  Florida  from SF through DEN
    5.19 P  Zoltan Mesko  Michigan  from HOU
    6.36 OL  Ted Larsen  North Carolina State  Compensatory Pick
    7.01 OL  Thomas Welch  Vanderbilt  from STL through WAS
    7.40 DL  Brandon Deaderick  Alabama  Compensatory Pick
    7.41 DL  Kade Weston  Georgia  Compensatory Pick
    7.43 QB  Zac Robinson  Oklahoma State  Compensatory Pick
     2009
    2.02 DB  Patrick Chung  Oregon  from KC
    2.08 DL  Ron Brace  Boston College  from OAK
    2.09 DB  Darius Butler  Connecticut  from GB
    2.26 OL  Sebastian Vollmer  Houston   
    3.19 WR  Brandon Tate  North Carolina  from NYJ through GB
    3.33 LB  Tyrone McKenzie  South Florida  compensatory pick
    4.23 OL  Rich Ohrnberger  Penn State  from BAL
    5.34 OL  George Bussey  Louisville  compensatory pick
    6.25 LS  Jake Ingram  Hawaii  from BAL
    6.34 DL  Myron Pryor  Kentucky  compensatory pick
    7.23 WR  Julian Edelman  Kent State  from MIA through JAC
    7.25 DL  Darryl Richard  Georgia Tech   
     2008
    1.10 LB  Jerod Mayo  Tennessee  from NO
    2.31 DB  Terrence Wheatley  Colorado   
    3.15 LB  Shawn Crable  Michigan  from NO
    3.31 QB  Kevin O'Connell  San Diego State   
    4.30 DB  Jonathan Wilhite  Auburn   
    5.18 WR  Matt Slater  UCLA  from TB
    6.31 LB  Bo Ruud  Nebraska   
     2007
    1.24 DB  Brandon Meriweather  Miami  from SEA
    4.28 DL  Kareem Brown  Miami   
    5.34 OL  Clint Oldenburg  Colorado State  compensatory pick
    6.06 LB  Justin Rogers  Southern Methodist  from ARI
    6.28 DB  Mike Richardson  Notre Dame   
    6.34 RB  Justise Hairston  Central Connecticut  compensatory pick
    6.35 OL  Corey Hilliard  Oklahoma State  compensatory pick
    7.01 LB  Oscar Lua  Southern California  from OAK
    7.37 OL  Mike Elgin  Iowa  compensatory pick
     2006
    1.21 RB  Laurence Maroney  Minnesota   
    2.04 WR  Chad Jackson  Florida  from GB; trade 2006 2.20, 3.11
    3.22 TE  David Thomas  Texas   
    4.09 TE  Garrett Mills  Tulsa  from DET
    4.21 K  Stephen Gostkowski  Memphis   
    5.03 OL  Ryan O'Callaghan  California  from OAK
    6.22 DL  Jeremy Mincey  Florida   
    6.36 OL  Dan Stevenson  Notre Dame  compensatory pick
    6.37 DL  Le Kevin Smith  Nebraska  compensatory pick
    7.21 DB  Willie Andrews  Baylor   
     2005
    1.32 OL  Logan Mankins  Fresno State   
    3.20 DB  Ellis Hobbs  Iowa State  from BAL; trade picks 2005 2.32 plus rec'd draft pick 2005 6.21, 2006 3rd Round (TBD)
    3.37 OL  Nick Kaczur  Toledo  compensatory pick
    4.32 DB  James Sanders  Fresno State   
    5.34 LB  Ryan Claridge  Nevada-Las Vegas  compensatory pick
    7.16 QB  Matt Cassel  Southern California  from Minnesota through N.Y. Jets and Oakland
    7.41 TE  Andy Stokes    compensatory pick
     2004
    1.21 DL  Vince Wilfork  Miami  from BAL; trade draft pick BAL used to select QB Kyle Boller (2003)
    1.32 TE  Ben Watson  Georgia   
    2.31 DL  Marquise Hill  Louisiana State   
    3.32 DB  Guss Scott  Florida   
    4.17 DB  Dexter Reid  North Carolina  from NO; trade S Tebucky Jones (2003) plus rec'd draft pick 2003 3.14
    4.32 RB  Cedric Cobbs  Arkansas   
    5.32 WR  P.K. Sam  Florida State   
    7.32 DB  Christian Morton  Illinois   
     2003
    1.13 DL  Ty Warren  Texas A&M  from CHI; trade drafts picks 2003 1.14 and 6.20 (was from NYJ; trade draft pick 2003 1.04 plus rec'd 2003 1.22 and 4.19 (was from WAS; compensation WR Laveranues Coles))
    2.04 DB  Eugene Wilson  Illinois  from HOU; trade draft picks 2003 2.09 and 3.11 plus rec'd 2003 4.20
    2.13 WR  Bethel Johnson  Texas A&M  from CAR; trade draft picks 2003 2.18 and 4.23
    4.20 DL  Dan Klecko  Temple  from HOU; trade draft picks 2003 2.09 and 3.11 plus rec'd 2003 2.04 (was compensatory pick)
    4.23 DB  Asante Samuel  Central Florida  from DEN; trade draft picks (was from CAR; trade draft picks (was from NE; trade draft pick 2003 2.13 plus rec'd 2003 2.18))
    5.29 OL  Dan Koppen  Boston College  from TEN; trade draft picks
    6.28 QB  Kliff Kingsbury  Texas Tech  from TEN; trade draft picks
    7.20 TE  Spencer Nead  Brigham Young   
    7.25 LB  Tully Banta-Cain  California  from NO; trade S Tebucky Jones (was from IND; trade RB Ricky Williams (2002))
    7.29 DL  Ethan Kelley  Baylor  from TEN; trade draft picks
     2002
    1.21 TE  Daniel Graham  Colorado   
    2.33 WR  Deion Branch  Louisville   
    4.19 QB  Rohan Davey  Louisiana State   
    4.28 DL  Jarvis Green  Louisiana State   
    7.26 RB  Antwoine Womack  Virginia   
    7.42 WR  David Givens  Notre Dame   
     2001
    1.06 DL  Richard Seymour  Georgia   
    2.17 OL  Matt Light  Purdue   
    3.24 DB  Brock Williams  Notre Dame   
    4.01 OL  Kenyatta Jones  South Florida   
    4.24 TE  Jabari Holloway  Notre Dame   
    5.32 LB  Hakim Akbar  Washington   
    6.17 TE  Arthur Love  South Carolina State   
    6.37 DB  Leonard Myers  Miami   
    7.16 K  Owen Pochman  Brigham Young   
    7.39 LB  T.J. Turner  Michigan State   
     2000
    2.15 OL  Adrian Klemm  Hawaii   
    3.14 RB  J.R. Redmond  Arizona State   
    4.33 OL  Greg Robinson-Randall  Michigan State   
    5.12 TE  Dave Stachelski  Boise State   
    5.32 DL  Jeff Marriott  Missouri   
    6.21 DB  Antwan Harris  Virginia   
    6.33 QB  Tom Brady  Michigan   
    6.35 DL  David Nugent  Purdue   
    7.20 LB  Casey Tisdale  New Mexico   
    7.33 RB  Patrick Pass  Georgia   
     1999
    1.28 LB  Andy Katzenmoyer     
    2.15 RB  Kevin Faulk  Louisiana State   
    3.30 DB  Tony George     
    6.11 DB  Marcus Washington     
    7.21 QB  Michael Bishop     
    7.35 WR  Sean Morey  Brown   
     1998
    1.18 RB  Robert Edwards  Georgia   
    1.22 DB  Tebucky Jones  Syracuse   
    2.22 WR  Tony Simmons  Wisconsin   
    2.24 TE  Rod Rutledge  Alabama   
    3.20 RB  Chris Floyd     
    3.22 DL  Greg Spires  Florida State   
    4.23 DL  Leonta Rheams     
    5.22 LB  Ron Merkerson     
    6.23 RB  Harold Shaw     
     1997
    1.29 DB  Chris Canty     
    2.29 DL  Brandon Mitchell  Texas A&M   
    3.01 RB  Sedrick Shaw     
    3.29 DB  Chris Carter     
     1996
    1.07 WR  Terry Glenn  Ohio State   
    2.06 DB  Lawyer Milloy  Washington   
    3.25 LB  Tedy Bruschi  Arizona   
    4.24 DL  Chris Sullivan     
    5.17 DL  Christian Peter  Nebraska   
    6.28 RB  Marrio Grier     
    6.39 DL  Devin Wyman     
    7.07 TE  Lovett Purnell     
     1995
    1.23 DB  Ty Law  Michigan   
    2.25 LB  Ted Johnson  Colorado   
    3.10 RB  Curtis Martin  Pittsburgh   
    3.24 DB  Jimmy Hitchcock     
    6.24 RB  Dino Philyaw     
    7.26 DB  Carlos Yancy     


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I would say aside from 2010 BB the GM has a far from perfect draft record. I also read on Patriots.com that NE has had more draft picks in the past 5 years the any other team in the league. I am certainly not implying BB is a bad GM as he has nailed free agency more often then not. I would however say his drafting for the most part leaves much to be desired..

    Please feel free to show me if and where I'm wrong...


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    Who said his draft record was "perfect" here?    Threads like yours are annoying.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOTBLITZ. Show HOTBLITZ's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    In Response to Re: Recent draft history suggests....:
    [QUOTE]No one asked you to post.. Just more proof of BB riding brady's coatails.

    Without TB did you know BB has a losing record?
    Posted by HOTBLITZ[/QUOTE]
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    No one asked you to start another of the same thread that we already have 10 of right now, either.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    Damn BB for that 98' draft... oh wait he didn't have anything to do with that draft?

    BB has had some really good drafts and some really bad drafts. Clearly he's a better coach then GM but he's nether as bad nor as good as some people make him out to be. It's one of those catch 22 situations where if BB the GM didn't have BB the coach or Brady as QB then his flaws would be magnified but on the same note BB the coach and Brady need players to work with so BB the GM does provide at least players that fill roles and allow them to continuing winning
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Army2LT. Show Army2LT's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    Wow, look at all that movement.  That's crazy.  I knew BB likes to make trades but that is ridiculous.  Only 4 times over the past 3 years did he stay put and select a player with an original pick (not including compensatory picks).


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    BB's twelve drafts (2000 through 2011) were generally pretty good.  But he had a bit of a lull in production from 2006 through 2008 and maybe even in 2009 (that one's debatable).  I think 2006 was his worst draft because there were a number of good players taken after the Pats' first and second picks that did very well in the NFL.  2007 was a much weaker draft class and BB was smart to trade some of those picks away for Moss and Welker.  Still, it wasn't a greatly productive draft other than Merriweather (who was only a so-so choice in retrospect).  Mayo was a good choice in 2008, but the Giants probably got better value in later rounds (Slater excepted), which is painful considering the Super Bowl loss.  In 2009, trading away the Clay Matthews pick for Butler and Tate seems, with hindsight, like a poor decision--but on draft day it probably seemed like a good gamble.

    BB's generally done a great job as GM, but these drafts weren't stellar and it's why some of us are more comfortable labeling him "very good" or "above average" rather than falling for the "best ever in history" hyperbole. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    Pro,

    What I find funny about the 2006 draft is that I think this was the draft where BB did what most of the fans here wanted to see. He went after the top rated offensive players on the board. I distinctly remember it being rumored that the Colts were absolutely taking Maroney if we hadn't a few picks earlier. We then went after the combine king Chad Jackson, took David Thomas(captain of the national champions) then a versatile H-back in Garret Mills, followed by the best kicker in the draft.

    He went all offense and with the exception of David Thomas( I think) they were all highly toted "Mel Kiper" guys and it turned out to only produce one "Patriot" type player in Ghost.

    Point being if we could dig up some 2006 post draft threads I bet you would find lots of people thinking BB just hit a home run!

    Hindsight gives us the rare opportunity to cast judgment on that draft.

    Anyway it would cool if somebody could post a similar list from other successful teams.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    It is extraordinary how crystal clear things appear in hindsight.  I distinctly remember the Maroney pick in particular being widely praised and yet now we see it viewed as one of BB's 'bad picks'.  Butler was also touted by many as a really solid pick; Tate was acknowledged as a find in the 3rd round if a bit of a flyer, primarily because of his knee. 

    I think if you were to break down every team, year by year, pick by pick, since 2000 you'd find BB to be among the most successfull GMs in the league in that regard.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from batou. Show batou's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    Please see this excellent post from Shenanigan on a comparison of BBs drafting vs. rest of NFL.  Very insightful.


    http://www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a9690Discussion%3a6b34969a-fcc3-4b74-b05b-1067808ce54b

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    Yep, he applied some pretty fair criteria as measurement of draft success and BB looks to be among the best.  Despite those who dispute the criteria, I think that's a pretty fair summation.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    You have to compare BB's drafts to the rest of the NFL over the same time period. That's the only way to truly measure success vs. failure vs. mediocrity, etc.

    I'm pretty sure if that exercise were undertaken, BB's overall draft success rate would clock in somewhere in the Top 10, if not the Top 5.

    Alas, some people will only be happy with perfection, or slightly less than perfection. (Maybe a 95% success rate would satisfy them?)

    Regarding 2006: yes, Maroney and Jackson were very highly touted players coming out in that draft and many, many Pats fans that I know were ecstatic when BB made those selections.

    Draft = a complete crapshoot.

    You just never know how these college guys will turn out once they hit the big time.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    In Response to Re: Recent draft history suggests....:
    [QUOTE]Pro, What I find funny about the 2006 draft is that I think this was the draft where BB did what most of the fans here wanted to see. He went after the top rated offensive players on the board. I distinctly remember it being rumored that the Colts were absolutely taking Maroney if we hadn't a few picks earlier. We then went after the combine king Chad Jackson, took David Thomas(captain of the national champions) then a versatile H-back in Garret Mills, followed by the best kicker in the draft. He went all offense and with the exception of David Thomas( I think) they were all highly toted "Mel Kiper" guys and it turned out to only produce one "Patriot" type player in Ghost. Point being if we could dig up some 2006 post draft threads I bet you would find lots of people thinking BB just hit a home run! Hindsight gives us the rare opportunity to cast judgment on that draft. Anyway it would cool if somebody could post a similar list from other successful teams.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]


    No doubt . . . Maroney looked great at UM before the draft and Jackson looked great in workouts. 

    Drafts are (as hardright says above) a bit of a crap shoot.  I really think overall BB has done quite well, particularly when you take into account the picks he was starting with.

    Still, there are reasons the team has some big weaknesses at some positions, and those weaknesses come in large part from some weaker drafts in this 2006 to 2009 period.  Does it make BB a "bad" GM? Far from it.  But even if it's just a bit of bad luck it still has an impact on the quality of the team BB can field.  
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    After much internal struggle with this whole "Bill Belichick is the best GM of all time!" raging debate, I've decided to change my assessment of him over the last five years to good GM - rather than average. I've made my change based off of where we've been picking over the last 5 years and injuries to some players that would of made him look better (Pryor, Wright, Bodden).

    Also I've made the bump up to good based off of the extra money we've had under the salary cap the last two seasons..7 million last and the 12 we have now. I'm still not sure having extra cap space is a positive (where the extra money could of been invested into a very good player), but enough people seem to be in agreement that extra cap space=awesome. I'm also assuming they will spend the extra cap space we DO have as of now on some high quality defensive player they will acquire in trade or sign.

    Furthermore I would like to give special attention (and thanks) to both Rusty and True champ for opening up my eyes a little bit. This is all.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    I didn't know the Pats drafted Chris Canty, kind of wish they still had him!
    The 2007 draft looks REAL ugly now that Meriweather is gone; but most of those years he was pretty successful. 2000-2005 was outstanding for the most part. Many big contributors on there.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    The Chris Canty they had was an undersized and, we fans later learned, under talented defensive back, not Chris Canty the DL. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    Gotcha, thanks for the info, I didn't think he was drafted that long ago...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from paularnold. Show paularnold's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    Have most people here actually looked at the previous drafts and who the Patriots could have drafted instead or are they just looking at players and saying they were good or not.  When looking at the drafts from 2006 and on, there are plenty of misses in the bottom of the first and top of the second rounds, generally where the Patriots have been picking.  Some of those drafts were very lean, and the Patriots didn't pick very well.

    Also, when looking at the second round in 2009, the Patriots had 4 choices in that round.  They hit with Chung and Vollmer and missed with Brace and Butler.  When examining that round I find 9 quality players out of 32 picks, and considering the Pats drafted 2 of them that means the rest of the league went 7 for 28 or 25% success rate.  The Pats were 50%.  It's a little soon to dismiss players from the 2010 draft class especially since they didn't have a real offseason last year (McCourty was not the only player to have a very good rookie campaign followed by a down year - Roger Saffold comes quickly to mind).  But looking at the second round if they never get anything else out of Cunningham, the Patriots still went 2/3 with Gronk (an all Pro in his second season) and Spikes.  This is a great draft.

    People who think that the Patriot's draft is a failure unless they add a future hall of famer will obviously be disappointed with almost every draft and would call any GM in the game a bad one.  If you objectively look at each draft and what the Patriots came out of the draft with relative to what talent was available when they picked, BB does pretty well for himself.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    Captain, trust me, that you don't remember this guy is a very good thing.  I shudder every time I remember that Bobby Grier drafted this guy in the first round.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    Can he or Canty? He can't.
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from drfreni. Show drfreni's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    Anyone who thinks that BB is a poor GM and drafts poorly, then you need to read WAR ROOM by Michael Holley.  It explains the Maroney and Chad Jackson picks.  BB didn't want them to begin with.  The pats whole scouting dept. told him not to pick either of them. He did anyway based on some outside opinions.  BB learned his lesson, STICK TO THE PROGRAM.  I doubt we will see mutiple High round busts again from him.

    Also, in in 20/20 hindsight let's give credit where credit is due.  Gronk, Hernandez, McCourty, Spikes, Mesko and even Cunningham is a hell of a draft.  Anyone who thinks differently has no clue about football and the gamble in every draft. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from drfreni. Show drfreni's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    Oh, I forgot Brandon Deaderick.  Also, has been a starter at some point and was a late rounder  6th or 7th.  That is a great draft class ( with all the others I mentioned in the previous post). period.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mgraham. Show mgraham's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    In Response to Re: Recent draft history suggests....:
    [QUOTE]Anyone who thinks that BB is a poor GM and drafts poorly, then you need to read WAR ROOM by Michael Holley.  It explains the Maroney and Chad Jackson picks.  BB didn't want them to begin with.  The pats whole scouting dept. told him not to pick either of them. He did anyway based on some outside opinions.  BB learned his lesson, STICK TO THE PROGRAM.  I doubt we will see mutiple High round busts again from him. Also, in in 20/20 hindsight let's give credit where credit is due.  Gronk, Hernandez, McCourty, Spikes, Mesko and even Cunningham is a hell of a draft.  Anyone who thinks differently has no clue about football and the gamble in every draft. 
    Posted by drfreni[/QUOTE]

    I think the most underrated pick was Mesko  rd 5.  He is a field position asset, in almost always making the opponent go 80+
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from drfreni. Show drfreni's posts

    Re: Recent draft history suggests....

    In Response to Re: Recent draft history suggests....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Recent draft history suggests.... : I think the most underrated pick was Mesko  rd 5.  He is a field position asset, in almost always making the opponent go 80+
    Posted by mgraham[/QUOTE]

    I agree.  Major upgrade over the guys that preceded him. 
     
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