Recovering after a HOF QB.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Recovering after a HOF QB.

    Looking at the history of the game, most times when a Hall of Fame QB has departed a franchise times were hard for some years. The big exception that comes to mind is the 9ers who barely lost stride when Young took over for Montana. Of course when Young left the axiom took hold with a vengeance.

    Next time you want to stomp on Brady for throwing 2 TDs and 1 INT in the Super Bowl (see the thread "fun SB facts" for a clue), wrap your head around what it has almost invariably been like for teams when a guy like him is gone.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    Brady will be a very tough act to follow; I don't think anyone with 1/2 a football brain would dispute that.  He's a rare combination of talent, brains, intensity and dedication to his craft.  However, I don't see the team dropping out of playoff contention because of it.  Recognizing that Babe dismisses the 2008 season (11-5 but missed playoffs) as a specious example, I see it is as evidence that the team will continue to be a winning proposition.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    Agreed, ATJ. Nice to see intelligent people calling out Babe and challenging his sickness in defense of Tom Brady 365/24/7.

    After 3-4 years under his belt, my hope is Mallett can be a Rodgers type in development once Brady is ready to move out to LA.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    I'd think Favre to Rodgers is just as 'big' an exception as Montana to Young, considering Rodgers as already won at many SB's as Young did and has won 42 games his 1st 4 seasons compared to Young's 48 despite taking over a mediocre team and not the Montan/SB dynasty roster pre-NFL free agency.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    In Response to Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.:
    [QUOTE]Agreed, ATJ. Nice to see intelligent people calling out Babe and challenging his sickness in defense of Tom Brady 365/24/7. After 3-4 years under his belt, my hope is Mallett can be a Rodgers type in development once Brady is ready to move out to LA.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    As do we all.

    Ideally, you don't want to end up like so many teams do, blowing their wad on some rookie who is just as likely to be David Klingler as Aaron Rodgers (and it's interesting that Rodgers, himself, dropped like a stone in the first round, proving once again that NFL personnel types don't really know any more about this stuff than most of us).

    Of course, we have no idea what Mallety may or may not turn out to be, but the knocks on him -- apart from his immobility -- were not football-related, and it's reasonable to expect the kid to do some growing up in Brady's shadow. That's the hope at any rate, but the bottom line is that there simply aren't enough even marginal quarterbacks to go around. In a league where the Matt Cassels of the world are making the Pro Bowl, I'm not looking for much outside the very top echelon of quarterbacks. You can blast Babe all you want -- heaven knows he's an easy enough target -- but he's right about that 2008 season. That was a team that should have gone undefeated the previous year and they beat exactly one . . .   one . . .   team with a winning record: An Arizona team that had already clinched and didn't even show up in the snow. They won in spite of Matt Cassel, not because of him. Now, you can decide for yourself what that might or might not mean about Tom Brady, but you can place me firmly in the camp that has Matt Cassel wildly over-rated.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    No.

    Matt Cassel isn't too far off from the talent level of an Aaron Rodgers.  The difference between Rodgers and Cassel is, Rodgers played 4 years in college and has had 1 OC this entire time.  He's also superior in some technical areas to this point, but that has a lot to do with his progression in one system, patience with the organization and a LOADED offensive cast.

    Cassel has had 3 total OCs since 2008, now 4 starting in 2012.  That's 4 OCs in 5 years.

    GB is LOADED and has a much better pass blocking, to boot.

    The similaritis between a Rodgers and a Cassel:

    1. Mature, good leadership.
    2. Deliberate decision making in the pocket/know when to unload the ball.
    3. Good football IQ.
    4. Accurate passing.

    Now, clearly Rodgers is superior with a ring, etc, but also very clearly, a Rodgers had a much better development and path taken due to how he was handled. 

    How can a guy who had two Pro Bowl years (2008, Favre was not the AFC Pro Bowler in 2008, and 2010) in two differing systems (not by much with McDaniels and Weis), be "wildly overrated"?  KC is a rebuilding franchise, basically health and a Left Tackle away from locking down that division and making a legit run. Think Houston last year.  

    Houston finaly finds a core group that has been implemented, some continuity and stability and now look at them. If Houston wins a SB and Schaub has a knockout year, is he then on Aaron Rodgers level?  What if Cassel does it?

    Rodgers learned for 2 years behind Favre and had some bumps in 2008 and even 2009, before his breakout year in YEAR 5 in the same system with a loaded cast.

    What I look for is the skill set that a Brady possesses. Rodgers has it. Cassel has it, but he's not quite the Rodgers level of talent. As we just saw, with our own QB in the last 2 SBs, stats are meaningless when it matters.

    Finally, pretending a 47-7 blistering by NE over Arizona in 2008 is somehow not tied to how NE was playing as an offense with Cassel in Devember is ludicrous. It was very clear that Cassel was vastly improved from earlier in the year. The sack totals allowed prove this alone.

    As for Mallett:  Maturity is a question, but his arm and athleticism isn't.  We shall see.  It's all going to be on him at some point here in the future. I give Brady 2 more years for sure here.  We'll see where Brady is after 2013, but I remember Pats fans being completely obtuse when it came to the career realities of Harrison, Vrabel and Bruschi after the 2007 season. I thought Bruschi was done after 2007, but he played just that one more year.  Vrabel regressed fast in 2008 and was pretty much done after 2009.

    This stuff sneaks up quick.  Fans need to be prepared regardless of what Brady wants or says, just like with what Manning wants or says right now.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    Don't really want to blast anyone actually.  I simply see 2008 as an example of how a team, when properly constructed, prepared and coached, can perform in the absence of a star QB.  I thought Matt Cassel did an above average job when called upon in 2008.  I think Hoyer would perform at least as well.  And, Mallett, jury still out though it may be, has the potential to be successful at the QB position in this league.  My point: life as we know it will not come to an end when TB calls it a day.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    You weren't blasting him, just being a normal, objective Pats fan.  Rarity around here.

    Matt Cassel hadn't taken a snap in almost a decade (since high school) and what he did in 2008 was actually quite impressive.  He could have quit long before midseason when he started to really turn and grow into the offense.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    Rusty I don't think Cassel is as bad as some people are making him out to be here.  But to say he isn't that far off from Aaron Rodgers' talent level just makes you look like a huge homer.  Sure Rodgers has had the benefit of good receivers and a consistent system, but he also has a cannon for an arm and is more accurate and mobile than Cassel.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    Brady is a top 5 qb in this league and it will hurt but as long as BB is here, and Kraft owns the team they will still be elite. 11-5 with a guy who hadn't played since high school is pretty good. To say it was because of an easy schedule is a joke, anyone who has watched the NFL realizes just how difficult it is to win, no matter who the opponent is. 
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    In Response to Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.:
    [QUOTE]Brady will be a very tough act to follow; I don't think anyone with 1/2 a football brain would dispute that.  He's a rare combination of talent, brains, intensity and dedication to his craft.  However, I don't see the team dropping out of playoff contention because of it.  Recognizing that Babe dismisses the 2008 season (11-5 but missed playoffs) as a specious example, I see it is as evidence that the team will continue to be a winning proposition.
    Posted by ATJ[/QUOTE]


    Be ready for a VERY rude awakening.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    In Response to Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.:
    [QUOTE]Agreed, ATJ. Nice to see intelligent people calling out Babe and challenging his sickness in defense of Tom Brady 365/24/7. After 3-4 years under his belt, my hope is Mallett can be a Rodgers type in development once Brady is ready to move out to LA.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    Your's is a MAD MAD MAD MAD MAD World. You think guys like Rodgers come along all the time. Some of these teams have been waiting around for decades to get an elite QB.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    In Response to Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.:
    [QUOTE]I'd think Favre to Rodgers is just as 'big' an exception as Montana to Young, considering Rodgers as already won at many SB's as Young did and has won 42 games his 1st 4 seasons compared to Young's 48 despite taking over a mediocre team and not the Montan/SB dynasty roster pre-NFL free agency.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    Good point. That was a rare transition as well. It can happen. It's just about a 98% chance it won't.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    brady is great......and yes i, as well as all pats fans, will hate to see him go....but dont use this as a crutch for his poor performances in the playoffs recently......he seems to have flipped the script from his first few years in the league.....he is now an awesome regular season qb and an average playoff qb.....i liked it when it was the other way around.....three rings before the wheels were turned.....zero since
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    In Response to Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.:
    [QUOTE]No. Matt Cassel isn't too far off from the talent level of an Aaron Rodgers.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    You are absolutely certifiably world-class nuts.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mgraham. Show mgraham's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    Rodgers/ Cassell comparison

    on the surface you would have to say "what"

    but untill his knee injury and at that time (pre Rodgers super bowl!) I would say they WERE comparable. Cassell was also very mobile ,ala Rodgers. I think he had 6 rushing TDs with the Pats and also had 4,5 maybe more with KC.  I want to see how a healthy Cassell does next year with a healthy Jamaal Charles and Tony Moeake.

    what I would like to see: Peyton actually signs with KC .. would  Pete Carroll want his second stringer back now? He is better than Whitehurst or Jackson!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    In Response to Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.:
    [QUOTE]brady is great......and yes i, as well as all pats fans, will hate to see him go....but dont use this as a crutch for his poor performances in the playoffs recently......he seems to have flipped the script from his first few years in the league.....he is now an awesome regular season qb and an average playoff qb.....i liked it when it was the other way around.....three rings before the wheels were turned.....zero since
    Posted by redsoxfan94[/QUOTE]


    You've become spoiled. You have plenty of company. Brady's SB numbers are as good in the last two as they were in the first one.

    Three rings before all the clutch defenders Parcells and Carrol stocked the team with got old.

    Brady has 5 rings if the D can stop Eli Manning on the last drive of 2 SBs. The same Eli who is a career 82 QB but has put up a 96 in two SBs against the Pats' D. FACTS.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    In Response to Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Recovering after a HOF QB. : You've become spoiled. You have plenty of company. Brady's SB numbers are as good in the last two as they were in the first one. Three rings before all the clutch defenders Parcells and Carrol stocked the team with got old. Brady has 5 rings if the D can stop Eli Manning on the last drive of 2 SBs. The same Eli who is a career 82 QB but has put up a 96 in two SBs against the Pats' D. FACTS.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    obviously we're spoiled.....but if brady steps it up against the giants in the last two super bowls, he has 5 rings.......scoring 14 and 19 points wont win you many games.....regardless of who is on your defense 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mgraham. Show mgraham's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    In Response to Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Recovering after a HOF QB. : You've become spoiled. You have plenty of company. Brady's SB numbers are as good in the last two as they were in the first one. Three rings before all the clutch defenders Parcells and Carrol stocked the team with got old. Brady has 5 rings if the D can stop Eli Manning on the last drive of 2 SBs. The same Eli who is a career 82 QB but has put up a 96 in two SBs against the Pats' D. FACTS.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Parcells / Carroll clutch defenders

    Law, McGinnest, Milloy ( only 1 SB) Bruschi, Ted Johnson ( maybe 2).. Granted 2 HOFrs

    who is the Carrol / Grier guy here?

    BB  non clutch Defenders w 2 rings

    Harrison  Vince,  Seymour,  Eugene Wilson, Vrabel,,Samuel, ted washington, Ty warren,Randal Gay,Jarvis Green, Chatam, Colvin , Phifer( i was surprised) 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    Cassel isn't that far off from Rodgers!!!??? Hahahaha! Oh my, we all knew you had some serious issues, but man this one is almost as good as...McCourty is in the same league as Revis...Alex Smith is better than Brady...Merriweather is the third best safety in the AFC...Just give the ball to BJGE and we win...blame everything on the shot gun spread and Brady...Salary Cap Hell...

    I could go on. 
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    In Response to Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.:
    [QUOTE]Cassel isn't that far off from Rodgers!!!??? Hahahaha! Oh my, we all knew you had some serious issues, but man this one is almost as good as...McCourty is in the same league as Revis...Alex Smith is better than Brady...Merriweather is the third best safety in the AFC...Just give the ball to BJGE and we win...blame everything on the shot gun spread and Brady...Salary Cap Hell... I could go on. 
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    Skill set wise, absolutely.  Cassel's 2010 season proves this.  Put Cassel in GB and he's doing Rodgers-type numbers.

    In 2009, Rodgers second season in GB he did 30 and 9.

    In 2010, in Cassel's second season in KC, he did 27 and 7.  Umm, I am pretty sure that's close. If Weis stayed in KC, Charles and Moeaki didn't get  hurt and they had a legit LT, absolutely he isn't far off from Rodgers level.

    Stats, facts and contexts really hurt irrational dumbos.

    MCourty had a better rookie year than Revis. Absolutely.  That's not even debatable.  McCourty had one of the best rookie years of any CB in NFL history, as a matter of fact.

    And yes, only morons believe the salary cap doesn't exist and doesn't matter in the NFL. lol

    Are you Dan Snyder's kid? bawahaah

    WE could go on and on with how stupid you are. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    In Response to Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.:
    [QUOTE]Rodgers/ Cassell comparison on the surface you would have to say "what" but untill his knee injury and at that time (pre Rodgers super bowl!) I would say they WERE comparable. Cassell was also very mobile ,ala Rodgers. I think he had 6 rushing TDs with the Pats and also had 4,5 maybe more with KC.  I want to see how a healthy Cassell does next year with a healthy Jamaal Charles and Tony Moeake. what I would like to see: Peyton actually signs with KC .. would  Pete Carroll want his second stringer back now? He is better than Whitehurst or Jackson!
    Posted by mgraham[/QUOTE]

    Cassel's two good years were against an at the time very weak AFC and NFC West divisions. Cassel was stinking things up before injury last year. His TD/INT ratio outside those two weak schedule years is 26/25. I called the Chiefs' good year in 2010 based on schedule and their bad in 2011 based on the same. The later right here on this site.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Recovering after a HOF QB.

    To all of the "Cassel-is-Rodgers-ites".  

    Has anyone heard about the Packers inquiring about Manning? 


    'nuff said.
     

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