Refs out of control, possible solutions

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Refs out of control, possible solutions

    This year has had more games decided on the refs than any in my memory.  To me this is a bad thing and although people complain about refs all the time, I feel as though people should be debating on possible solutions.  Once we figure out a couple of solutions, people will start calling the talk shows with the ideas.  That is how an idea is born.

    That said... here is the problem.  Refs are starting to become too involved in the outcomes of games.  Lawyers are becoming too involved in shaping how games are officiated.  What this solution is looking for are ways to take some of the game outcome out of the hands of refs and back to the players on the field.

    Here are my solutions to the problem and I ask for people to suggest their own or debate the ones presented.

    1.  Instant replay should be expanded to include penalties.  All instant replay rules stay in affect as is as each team gets the same number of challenges except they can replay penalties.  Reason why is that penalties that include pass interference is only limited to the distance that the QB can throw the ball in the air.  This could be a 50 yard penalty potentially and needs to be addressed.

    2.  Rules for pass interference calls should be limited to a minor and a major penalty.  There is too much judgement call right now as to intent and there is a lack of consistency with calls from ref to ref.  This means that they can still have some judgement input, but it can only be the foul assigned to a facemask... 5 yards for a minor and 15 for a major. 

    3.  Knee shots are more of a problem to the money making potential of a player than head injuries.  Head injuries cost the teams more money because of the lawsuit that they paid $750 million to settle.  Fines should not be given out or huge penalties for inadvertant head shots when a player is showing good form for a tackle.  Fines and big penalties should only be reserved for the player who spears or uses the crown of the head as a weapon and not for the player who hits facemask to facemask when making a perfect form tackle. 

    4.  All players should be required to wear an anti-concussion prevention helemet.  They exist and they work and it is a shame they are not required by the NFL because Riddell holds the equipment contract and doesn't make a good enough product.  If the NFL is to give out fines, they should give them out to the makers of the helmet that was in use in the NFL and sue them to make a better helmet that actually protects the head with modern technical advances built into the helmet.  This will keep players from fearing to play the game like it should... with good clean hits and good form tackles. 

    5.  Take out all the grey area with pass interference, defensive holding, illegal contact and allow the defenses to play defense.  All of these plays are either 5 or 15 yard calls depending on severity of major or minor and none are automatic first downs.  It is so cheap to have a QB on the 50, heave up a pass and the call gets the ball to the goal line... cut it out and just go 5 or 15 and no auto first down on all these calls.  It is even cheaper to have the same pass and a guy on the other side of the field gets called for illegal contact or defensive holding... limit the damage to 5 yards penalty for anything away from the play of the game.  None are auto first downs and should ever bail a team out of 3rd and 35.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    They miss more than they get right. I wouldn't call them out of control, I know they have been the reason for 3 of the 4 losses the Patriots have been given. they clearly need to define what PI's really are!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They miss more than they get right. I wouldn't call them out of control, I know they have been the reason for 3 of the 4 losses the Patriots have been given. they clearly need to define what PI's really are!

    [/QUOTE]

    The reason I consider them out of control is that you remember the calls.  You should never remember the calls, you should remember the play on the field.  We don't have a consistently called game right now and the steps I suggested are a beginning to solve the issue instead of making blanket statements or general complaints.

    When people start to pay good money to see a man in stripes call a game, then we can hear their names more.  Till then I want to remember the play on the field and not the guys who call the game. 

    We are moving into a dangerous area where games are being won on technicalities too much.  It was not the way the game was meant to be played. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They miss more than they get right. I wouldn't call them out of control, I know they have been the reason for 3 of the 4 losses the Patriots have been given. they clearly need to define what PI's really are!

    [/QUOTE]


    you guys should be 9-5 (at best) so dont look that gift horse

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:

    This year has had more games decided on the refs than any in my memory.  To me this is a bad thing and although people complain about refs all the time, I feel as though people should be debating on possible solutions.  Once we figure out a couple of solutions, people will start calling the talk shows with the ideas.  That is how an idea is born.

    That said... here is the problem.  Refs are starting to become too involved in the outcomes of games.  Lawyers are becoming too involved in shaping how games are officiated.  What this solution is looking for are ways to take some of the game outcome out of the hands of refs and back to the players on the field.

    Here are my solutions to the problem and I ask for people to suggest their own or debate the ones presented.

    1.  Instant replay should be expanded to include penalties.  All instant replay rules stay in affect as is as each team gets the same number of challenges except they can replay penalties.  Reason why is that penalties that include pass interference is only limited to the distance that the QB can throw the ball in the air.  This could be a 50 yard penalty potentially and needs to be addressed.

    2.  Rules for pass interference calls should be limited to a minor and a major penalty.  There is too much judgement call right now as to intent and there is a lack of consistency with calls from ref to ref.  This means that they can still have some judgement input, but it can only be the foul assigned to a facemask... 5 yards for a minor and 15 for a major. 

    3.  Knee shots are more of a problem to the money making potential of a player than head injuries.  Head injuries cost the teams more money because of the lawsuit that they paid $750 million to settle.  Fines should not be given out or huge penalties for inadvertant head shots when a player is showing good form for a tackle.  Fines and big penalties should only be reserved for the player who spears or uses the crown of the head as a weapon and not for the player who hits facemask to facemask when making a perfect form tackle. 

    4.  All players should be required to wear an anti-concussion prevention helemet.  They exist and they work and it is a shame they are not required by the NFL because Riddell holds the equipment contract and doesn't make a good enough product.  If the NFL is to give out fines, they should give them out to the makers of the helmet that was in use in the NFL and sue them to make a better helmet that actually protects the head with modern technical advances built into the helmet.  This will keep players from fearing to play the game like it should... with good clean hits and good form tackles. 

    5.  Take out all the grey area with pass interference, defensive holding, illegal contact and allow the defenses to play defense.  All of these plays are either 5 or 15 yard calls depending on severity of major or minor and none are automatic first downs.  It is so cheap to have a QB on the 50, heave up a pass and the call gets the ball to the goal line... cut it out and just go 5 or 15 and no auto first down on all these calls.  It is even cheaper to have the same pass and a guy on the other side of the field gets called for illegal contact or defensive holding... limit the damage to 5 yards penalty for anything away from the play of the game.  None are auto first downs and should ever bail a team out of 3rd and 35.



    the refs aren't out of control-this is just a product of technology making the viewer at home see EVERYTHING crystal clear from 10 different angles in super slo-mo...the refs are actually doing a good job and all this nonsense comes from the above plus 24 hr sports talk and simple minds...i would have thought after the Tuck Rule bs pats fans would NEVER get on an official again

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    In response to 42AND46's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They miss more than they get right. I wouldn't call them out of control, I know they have been the reason for 3 of the 4 losses the Patriots have been given. they clearly need to define what PI's really are!

    [/QUOTE]


    you guys should be 9-5 (at best) so dont look that gift horse

     

    [/QUOTE]


    really jints? how you figure?

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 42AND46's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They miss more than they get right. I wouldn't call them out of control, I know they have been the reason for 3 of the 4 losses the Patriots have been given. they clearly need to define what PI's really are!

    [/QUOTE]


    you guys should be 9-5 (at best) so dont look that gift horse

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Impossible.  9-5?  We got bagged vs the jets and panthers.  We should have 2 more or maybe 1 anyway

    Name another team bagged on the final play twice in one season.

    [/QUOTE]


    you forgot last week aganst Miami. The PI on Hooie that wasn't called.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    The book "Personal Foul" claims that basketball refs have, as a group, grudges against certain players that they want to ruin, against certain teams, and sometimes they're bought.  I can see all of this happening on the football field also. 

    Tom Brady is pretty good at getting the pressure applied to the refs when appropriate so that groups of refs become afraid of getting caught throwing games. 

    As a rule, it's safer throwing games in favor of the home crowd.

    One solution is to have a quick feedback system where refs get scored on Monday and Tuesday.  If the refs seem to be consistently messing up in favor of one team or the other they get black marks on their record.  The old Black Sox scandal was unearthed by reporters keeping track of unforced fielding errors.  The product on the field looked terribly fake, and it was.  Unfortunately the owners went on to bust at least one wrong guy.

    The most effective way to point-shave a game is by calling pass interference tight against one team and easy against the other team.  All cornerbacks and receivers have learned that a little hand-fighting will be tolerated, and sometimes a lot will be tolerated when the game is on the line.  It depends on the ref.  Those long-distance bombs to the end zone are the places where one call changes the game mightily, and everyone does a bit of hand fighting, so it's dead simple to toss one or two 40 yard pass interference flags on third down for one team and not for the other team.

    All of the spearing and diving for the knees will end when teams have to give draft choices as atonement for the cheap shots.  "You break it you pay for it."

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from FishTaco64. Show FishTaco64's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    Why exactly is defensive holding an automatic first down? Even if it's 3rd and 24, the five yard penalty is an automatic first down, absolutely ludicrous, especially considering how easy it is to get called for it. If the five yards results in a first down, fine....if not then replay the freaking down. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostatewarrior. Show bostatewarrior's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    I don't think they can fine refs so I would suggest jail time.  

    Throwing the flag, announcing the infraction, negotiating with the guilty teams coach and then announcing there is no penalty.......felony 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    In response to FishTaco64's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why exactly is defensive holding an automatic first down? Even if it's 3rd and 24, the five yard penalty is an automatic first down, absolutely ludicrous, especially considering how easy it is to get called for it. If the five yards results in a first down, fine....if not then replay the freaking down. 

    [/QUOTE]

    This is a huge gripe of mine as well... they should not get the automatic first down... if it is a more severe penalty it should be 10 yards or 15 yards... not an automatic first down.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    In response to melwitts' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ahhhh...Shoot them?

    [/QUOTE]

    Where is that Hernandez kid when you need him?  (too soon too soon)

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    In response to Paul_K's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The book "Personal Foul" claims that basketball refs have, as a group, grudges against certain players that they want to ruin, against certain teams, and sometimes they're bought.  I can see all of this happening on the football field also. 

    Tom Brady is pretty good at getting the pressure applied to the refs when appropriate so that groups of refs become afraid of getting caught throwing games. 

    As a rule, it's safer throwing games in favor of the home crowd.

    One solution is to have a quick feedback system where refs get scored on Monday and Tuesday.  If the refs seem to be consistently messing up in favor of one team or the other they get black marks on their record.  The old Black Sox scandal was unearthed by reporters keeping track of unforced fielding errors.  The product on the field looked terribly fake, and it was.  Unfortunately the owners went on to bust at least one wrong guy.

    The most effective way to point-shave a game is by calling pass interference tight against one team and easy against the other team.  All cornerbacks and receivers have learned that a little hand-fighting will be tolerated, and sometimes a lot will be tolerated when the game is on the line.  It depends on the ref.  Those long-distance bombs to the end zone are the places where one call changes the game mightily, and everyone does a bit of hand fighting, so it's dead simple to toss one or two 40 yard pass interference flags on third down for one team and not for the other team.

    All of the spearing and diving for the knees will end when teams have to give draft choices as atonement for the cheap shots.  "You break it you pay for it."

    [/QUOTE]

    I also see the pass intererence as well as 5 yard penalties that have automatic first downs being the two most impactful penalties when point shaving.  I suggested some solutions in the top post and I appreciate the feedback as this is my line of thinking as well.  It is clear that there is an increased amount of corruption in the officiating of the game on a wide scale.  To minimize this we must minimize the severity of penalties that the refs can enact.

    I did not suggest this above, but I also feel that if there is a pass interference call in the end zone a team should only be on the 1 yard line if the team was already in the red zone.  If they are outside the red zone is should be at least the 5 yard line or the extra point line.  The 1 yard line is almost an automatic touch down and can sway the game like no other call. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    In response to Paul_K's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The book "Personal Foul" claims that basketball refs have, as a group, grudges against certain players that they want to ruin, against certain teams, and sometimes they're bought.  I can see all of this happening on the football field also. 

    Tom Brady is pretty good at getting the pressure applied to the refs when appropriate so that groups of refs become afraid of getting caught throwing games. 

    As a rule, it's safer throwing games in favor of the home crowd.

    One solution is to have a quick feedback system where refs get scored on Monday and Tuesday.  If the refs seem to be consistently messing up in favor of one team or the other they get black marks on their record.  The old Black Sox scandal was unearthed by reporters keeping track of unforced fielding errors.  The product on the field looked terribly fake, and it was.  Unfortunately the owners went on to bust at least one wrong guy.

    The most effective way to point-shave a game is by calling pass interference tight against one team and easy against the other team.  All cornerbacks and receivers have learned that a little hand-fighting will be tolerated, and sometimes a lot will be tolerated when the game is on the line.  It depends on the ref.  Those long-distance bombs to the end zone are the places where one call changes the game mightily, and everyone does a bit of hand fighting, so it's dead simple to toss one or two 40 yard pass interference flags on third down for one team and not for the other team.

    All of the spearing and diving for the knees will end when teams have to give draft choices as atonement for the cheap shots.  "You break it you pay for it."

    [/QUOTE]

    Has this been tried in other leagues before?  How has this been suggested to work or are you just thinking this up now?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    the refs aren't out of control-this is just a product of technology making the viewer at home see EVERYTHING crystal clear from 10 different angles in super slo-mo...the refs are actually doing a good job and all this nonsense comes from the above plus 24 hr sports talk and simple minds...i would have thought after the Tuck Rule bs pats fans would NEVER get on an official again

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not getting on an official.  I am getting on the overall level of officiating across the NFL this year.  I am also getting on the calls that give an easy way to impact the outcome of a game from an official.  I agree that as fans we see the play from many angles and is why in my suggested improvements that the league expand the replay rule to include penalties from the refs.  This gives an in game check and balance vs. any corrupt officials.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    Replace Goodell, life in the NFL would be so much better...

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    Tedy B says get some younger,physically fit Refs that can keep up with the game.

    He makes a good point.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from fourjays30. Show fourjays30's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    None of this would help. Call the rules as they are written do not interpet what you think they mean. It's as bad as basktball with traveling and double dribbling. Stop the launching yourself at a player to get them down make them have to tackle with their arms and not launch. Call offensive line holding they way the rules are written. That one is for gints as if called correctly you would not have had the Tyree catch. Fines are not enough punishment for dirty play. Make it cost the team more in say like draft picks or a cap hit. Lastly if you have a questionable call on the field where all of the refs can't decide what happen after the flag is thrown go to a review.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    I'm not as familiar with the evaluation process of NFL officials as I should be to comment on it but since when has that mattered on this board?  Couple of thoughts in this regard:

    1) The quick turnaround on feedback on game performance seems sound.  Instant replay for refs - probably day after the game as was suggested.

    2) Mid season performance grades with clear guidance on what changes, if any, officials need to make.

    3) Post season comprehensive evaluation correlated directly to whether or not an official will be retained.

    Just a few hip shots. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from antibody. Show antibody's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    No more part-timers. I think it's long past time that the NFL employs people who's sole occupation is officiating. The league can certainly afford this. Also believe that there should be minimum physical, if not age requirements for on field officials.  

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    glasses??

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    There are TWO things you can't take out of the job of refereeing:

    #1 - the HUMAN element, as it comes with some subjectivity and, possibly, unconscious bias.

    #2 - split second decision making.  A referee can't stand there and rehash the play in his/her mind and decide if there was a penalty or not.  At game speed, a split second decision and most are correct.

    From the comfort of the couch, the camera angles of the play and with replays, it looks easy to do, doesn't it?  Look at it from field level and with all those bodies moving around.  May mean a totally different perspective for some here.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: Refs out of control, possible solutions

    In response to antibody's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    No more part-timers. I think it's long past time that the NFL employs people who's sole occupation is officiating. The league can certainly afford this. Also believe that there should be minimum physical, if not age requirements for on field officials.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Sounds great on paper but you would actually see a decline in quality IMO. These guys generally have highly successful careers (corporate VPs, business owners, lawyers, etc.) that are far more lucrative than refereeing. You would lose many of them. The same is true of their logical replacements, the top flight college refs. Add to that the fact that it takes 15-20 years of refereeing at the lower levels of the game; you start doing junior high games, then high school, then work you way up through the various levels of college ball up to the major conferences. Then and only , you might be considered for a shot at the NFL. So you are at least pushing 40 before you even get considered.

     

    The replacements refs from a couple years ago were not even top flight college guys; they were from the DII and DIII levels and were guys who had been passed over to even move up to the next level of college.  The top college refs weren't going to give up the possibility of getting an NFL job by crossing the picket line (so to speak).

     

     
  25. This post has been removed.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share