Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    In Response to Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down:
    [QUOTE]...unless of course you aren't an avid Pat fans, in which case the replay doesn't show anything clearly.  He definitely bobbles the ball, but it doesn't seem to show exactly where he gains control...
    Posted by JulesWinfield[/QUOTE]

    Jules is right (and Nick is right, too). You leave the game in the officials' hands at your peril in Indy -- well, anywhere, really. It was the wrong play, and it was DEFINITELY the wrong formation. Samuel Morse was thinking of that exact play when he invented the telegraph.












     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sam-Adams. Show Sam-Adams's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    Faulk said in the post game that he didn't juggle the ball. I still haven't seen all the angles of the play to see if he made it or not. Has anyone else?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BrooklineRob. Show BrooklineRob's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    For me, I was p*ssed off that Bill went for it at first, but then I though more about the loss. I realized that the Pats turned it over twice in the red zone and failed to score a TD after Wilhite's interception.  So if they could've gotten 1-2 more FGs or at least another TD with primo field position, they never would have had to worry about going for it on 4th down.

    This team had many, many chance to put the Colts away but the Colts persevered.  They could've created their own destiny but folded when it counted.  Hardly BB's fault that Maroney fumbled or that Brady threw a bad pass that was picked.  This was a TEAM loss.  

    Get ready for the Jets.   
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sam-Adams. Show Sam-Adams's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    In Response to Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down:
    [QUOTE]For me, I was p*ssed off that Bill went for it at first, but then I though more about the loss. I realized that the Pats turned it over twice in the red zone and failed to score a TD after Wilhite's interception.  So if they could've gotten 1-2 more FGs or at least another TD with primo field position, they never would have had to worry about going for it on 4th down. This team had many, many chance to put the Colts away but the Colts persevered.  They could've created their own destiny but folded when it counted.  Hardly BB's fault that Maroney fumbled or that Brady threw a bad pass that was picked.  This was a TEAM loss.   Get ready for the Jets.   
    Posted by BrooklineRob[/QUOTE]

    Exactly my point BRob, they went away from what was working and that lies with the coaches. It wasn't the last couple minutes that killed them, it was losing momentum earlier in the 4th. I think they thought they had enough to coast home and lost and couldn't.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Freeney93. Show Freeney93's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    you guys keep forgetting that you must have possession of the ball PLUS TWO FEET DOWN before forward progress is awarded.  It's just like a sideline catch in that regard.  He has both feet in the air, bobbling the ball. After securing the ball, 1 foot is on the ground. He is then hit and pushed back, keeping his other foot from hitting the ground (it's still in the air). As he's falling back, his 2nd foot finally touches the turf, with the ball clearly at the 29-29.5 yard line (the blow by Bullitt kept the 2nd foot from coming down while the ball was still over the 30 yard line).   I don't see how you think this was a blown call.  I think you are forgetting to look at his feet, which are vital in this play.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    In Response to Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down:
    [QUOTE]Is it where the ball is or the foot?  I know that Faulk's feet were over the line when he had full controll of the ball....but he was leaning and facing Brady...so I am not sure if the Ball broke the plane.....
    Posted by m1020us[/QUOTE]
    As I saw it, his forward foot could not be seen.  His rear foot was down, behind the 30 as he was securing the ball.  His first touch of the ball was not possession.  His second was and he was being driven back at that time and his foot was down behind the 30. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    Freeney and Jules......

    LOOK at the replays which CLEARLY shows Faulk at least a half to a yard BEYOND the 30 yard line, BOTH feet on the ground.  There is an angle that clearly shows he caught the ball and is DRIVEN BACK by the defender to inside the 30, where the ball got placed.  Also, pay attention to the lineman right next to the play.  With Faulk BACK to him and the Colt defender on Faulk making the tackle, the lineman was signaling "bobbling the ball" during the hit and catch.  How did he SEE THAT? 

    Jules, you never cared for the Pats and enjoyed seeing them lose, so you'll make no effort to give ANY Pats fan comfort.

    Freeney.. as a Colt fan, you will NEVER admit the Colts got some gifts from the zebras in a victory.  All you will ever do is say the losing team's fans are whining. Any word otherwise, is admitting that some of your Colts victories are tainted with VERY favorable calls. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    In Response to Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down : Until I see a replay from another angle, I don't really have much of a choice but to say they ran the wrong play. I already said it in another board: I wish there was another camera angle.
    Posted by NickC1188[/QUOTE]

    It is clear from the Colts sideline high camera angle. He lands with his foot on the 30 with his body and ball bent from the hip towards the 31. The defender is also in contact with him at this point so he should have gotten forward progress there. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    In Response to Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down:
    [QUOTE]For me, I was p*ssed off that Bill went for it at first, but then I though more about the loss. I realized that the Pats turned it over twice in the red zone and failed to score a TD after Wilhite's interception.  So if they could've gotten 1-2 more FGs or at least another TD with primo field position, they never would have had to worry about going for it on 4th down. This team had many, many chance to put the Colts away but the Colts persevered.  They could've created their own destiny but folded when it counted.  Hardly BB's fault that Maroney fumbled or that Brady threw a bad pass that was picked.  This was a TEAM loss.   Get ready for the Jets.   
    Posted by BrooklineRob[/QUOTE]

    Not true by any stretch.

    They had other opportunities, yes. As did the Colts.

    The play that they made when it counted was this 4th and 2. The right spot makes the difference in this game. They had the lead. They had the yardage. They would have run out the clock. The spot was out of their hands.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sam-Adams. Show Sam-Adams's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    In Response to Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down : Not true by any stretch. They had other opportunities, yes. As did the Colts. The play that they made when it counted was this 4th and 2. The right spot makes the difference in this game. They had the lead. They had the yardage. They would have run out the clock. The spot was out of their hands.
    Posted by EnochRoot[/QUOTE]

    Where did you see that angle? I didn't see it during the game or post?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    Been all over NFL network. Obviously Polian didnt know about it or it would have been destroyed instantly......
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    The thing that is the saving grace for this questionable call (not so much for me but for pats fans) is that the league instituted challenge ability for exactly such a thing. 

    Did they challenge that call?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    In Response to Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down : Where did you see that angle? I didn't see it during the game or post?
    Posted by Sam-Adams[/QUOTE]

    They are the ones they have been showing and can easily be found on the NFL Network. I have the HD broadcast on DVR and I can go through frame by frame which helped me. 

    One is the camera on the Colts side of the field at a high angle at around the Pats 20 (I don't know where they place the cameras.) The other is the end zone view. The one from the upper angle sideline shows that he lands and is contacted by the receiver and that his body (with the ball) is bent over the 30 toward the 31. The end zone angle shows that he has possession of the ball before his left foot hits the 30. Both show the defender in contact with him. Combined, they show it was a reception with forward progress past the 30.

    I did see a third angle briefly on ESPN. It was still from the Colts sideline and looked to be about field level around the Colts 40 or the 50. You couldn't tell much from it.



     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    Totally disagree Root, especially watching from the endzone view.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    Youtube "Deion Sanders fourth down".  They all say he had the first.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    Replays that I've seen don't show sh*t.

    Was there no camera operating on the other side of the field?

    I've seen the same one from the high offensive right and another one from downfield behind the defense.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from JulesWinfield. Show JulesWinfield's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    Boy, some of you guys are taking this to a new level!  Frame by frame?  I wonder if there was anyone shooting the play from a grassy knoll near the stadium that would have had a better angle?!  I don't have the NFL network and obviously must not have seen the angle some are referring to, b/c all the angles I saw were pretty impossible to tell where the man had control...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    Jules - for some - not all - there is a real inability to see beyond these 2 plays. 

    The PI was a 50/50 call and receivers are taught to play it that way and no one here would argue against the call if Moss had gotten it. 

    The Spot of the 4th and 2 was seen by a ref from the best angle possible.  Additionally, Faulk never got his forward foot down until after his back foot had come down and he had been pushed backward.  The spot was, well, spot on. 

    What pats fans should be asking is:

    How is it that we scored 24 in the first 20 minutes and only 10 in the next 40?
    How is it that we got 2 manning ints in the second half and could not capitalize more than we did? 
    How is it that we gave up 21 points in the 4th? 
    The pats got the game they wanted, played the game they wanted and still lost.  Does Belichick ask himself, if we play this team again, how do we beat them?  Take away just one of the 3 big plays resulting in 21 points (of which Anthony Madison was held on the Welker punt return), how do we beat the colts?  
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    I heard Herm Edwards say on ESPN he wouldn't have gone for it on fourth and 2, he would have punted.  So at least we know for sure BB made the right call now.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from NEGAME. Show NEGAME's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    In Response to Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down:
    [QUOTE]I heard Herm Edwards say on ESPN he wouldn't have gone for it on fourth and 2, he would have punted.  So at least we know for sure BB made the right call now.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]

    Too funny!! Herm only wishes he could ever been in the position to have to make that kind of decision.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    In Response to Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down:
    [QUOTE]I heard Herm Edwards say on ESPN he wouldn't have gone for it on fourth and 2, he would have punted.  So at least we know for sure BB made the right call now.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]

    Easy on Hermm.

    How many coaches do you know who can parlay a 2-14(or was it 3-13?) record into a long-term deal with another team?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostatewarrior. Show bostatewarrior's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    In Response to Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down:
    [QUOTE]Youtube "Deion Sanders fourth down".  They all say he had the first.
    Posted by themightypatriotz[/QUOTE]


    Thanks for that Mighty.  You're right; Sanders, Mariucci and Eisen all say that Faulk made the first down. Good slow motion showing he had put the ball away and was over the 30 and was driven back by the DB.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZClRvZugOVU
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    In Response to Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down:
    [QUOTE]I heard Herm Edwards say on ESPN he wouldn't have gone for it on fourth and 2, he would have punted.  So at least we know for sure BB made the right call now.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]
    Yeah Herm is the quintessential sports commentator. He takes over 2 playoff teams and turns them into the worst teams in the NFL in no time.The guy is a magician. 

    "Nothing up my Sleeve...Presto" - Bullwinkle J. Moose
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    In Response to Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down:
    [QUOTE]Boy, some of you guys are taking this to a new level!  Frame by frame?  I wonder if there was anyone shooting the play from a grassy knoll near the stadium that would have had a better angle?!  I don't have the NFL network and obviously must not have seen the angle some are referring to, b/c all the angles I saw were pretty impossible to tell where the man had control...
    Posted by JulesWinfield[/QUOTE]

    This has been my point, Jules.

    Included among the people who couldn't see when control was established was the official who ultimately spotted the ball.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from hammer400. Show hammer400's posts

    Re: Replay clearly shows Faulk made first down

    The ball doesn't have to "cross a plane" unless it's the goal line . . .it is where Faulk's forward progress was stopped. As stated, he clearly was beyond the first down marker with the ball in control. A little home cooking here. In my opinion it was the right call with an inacutrate spot of the ball. It is a major bummer.
     
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