Revisiting the punter decision

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Revisiting the punter decision

    I know some here don't put much stock in the position but after a 1/4 of the season I think it is working out to date based on production and economics factored in. Once the bad weather rolls in we should get a better idea how this decison worked out.

     

    Allen -    Rank 19/17   22 Punts     Long  65     AVG  44.9    NET  40.1    Inside 20  8

    Mesko - Rank  32/27   20 Punts     Long  52     AVG  41.9    NET  37.6   Inside 20  2  

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    I see it purely from an economic point of view, but yes, the switch in punters seems to be a non-issue.  Some say that Mesko was going to make a lot of money as a FA, and I just couldn't see the Pats throwing big money his way.



     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Angel-of-Light. Show Angel-of-Light's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    Not sure if that's related or not, but I am pleased with the Pats field goal unit this year. Ghost made a number of difficult kicks this year (including game winning kick). Love Mesko's character and skill, but this looks like another smart decision by BB which will benefit the team in the long run. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    the economics came into play NEXT YEAR. The Pats were faced with a decision to either pay Mesko or find some one better than Allen NEXT YEAR. The issue isnt who has better stats after 4 games. The issue is who do you want back there in December in a playoff game.

    I believe Allen has potential and was all for trying to stash him on the PS for this year. I also have read much exageration on what a P will be paid next year with the Colquitt contracts thrown out there...I say no one knows what the FA punter market will bear next year.  

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    Not sure that a PS stash would have worked out given the vulnerability for sn@tch by another team.  Doubt he would have made it there to begin with and if he did doubtful he would have remained there long.  

    With respect to the comparison, it may be a bit earlier but the guy sure looks good thus far.  Cold weather punting will indeed tell the tale.

     

    (And I can't believe the word sn-a-tch is a deal breaker on BDC - rather silly)

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    the economics came into play NEXT YEAR. The Pats were faced with a decision to either pay Mesko or find some one better than Allen NEXT YEAR. The issue isnt who has better stats after 4 games. The issue is who do you want back there in December in a playoff game.

    I believe Allen has potential and was all for trying to stash him on the PS for this year. I also have read much exageration on what a P will be paid next year with the Colquitt contracts thrown out there...I say no one knows what the FA punter market will bear next year.  



    It's all about cap flexibilty and not over investing in a position where you can still get good value at the league minimums. They drafted ghost and let Vinaiteri walk, drafted Allen and let mesko walk...both were due to having a solid young kicker available in the draft to replace a kicker slated to hit the market and double or triple his salary...Just another example of Belichecks ability to manipulate the cap without sacrificing production. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    Punting is an area that usually has some of the more misleading stats. For example a player could have a huge average but if he outkicks the coverage does it really matter (and yes Allen outkicked the coverage the 1st couple games but has since learned to put more air time to allow the coverage to get under it). Also a low average isn't indicative to anything as certain teams have a way to get to the 50 more often which means the punter shortens the punt to drop it by the 10 (something Mesko was great at last year). Not to mention the net is almost completely dependant on the ability of the coverage to get to the punt and tackle as inside the 20 stats are dependant on the O getting to at least mid field to give the punter a shot at inside the 20's numbers. After game 1 two things scared me about Allen vs what I saw with Mesko in the past. 1) Allen was outkicking his coverage, he has since started to put more air under the ball and lets the coverage catch up and 2) that Allen was a bad directional punter, which remains a concern right now. The thing about the 2nd punt is if you can't kick directionally inside the 20's then you are giving more room for the return to work with allowing a chance for a great return. Mesko was always good at driving the kick to one side or the other and keeping it inbounds. Clearly Allen hasn't figured out how to do this yet as they have him kicking dead center of the field on every punt. And the few times they tried to have him direct it he shorted it on the sideline. Time will tell if BB made the right choice but it was a bit confusing the way BB loves field position that he'd cheap out over a punter.


    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    Mesko better rub that leg down cause he's going to punt 100 times + this year as good as the Steelers are. I dont have a problem losing kickers if you don't count Robbie Gould.  He could have been the hero that Vinitari is.

     

     

    Now you got the easy part done telling me about it.

    Does that handshaped bruise on your back hurt?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    I know some here don't put much stock in the position but after a 1/4 of the season I think it is working out to date based on production and economics factored in. Once the bad weather rolls in we should get a better idea how this decison worked out.

     

    Allen -    Rank 19/17   22 Punts     Long  65     AVG  44.9    NET  40.1    Inside 20  8

    Mesko - Rank  32/27   20 Punts     Long  52     AVG  41.9    NET  37.6   Inside 20  2  

     



    You have to remember that last year, Mesko was top 3 in terms of the fewest number of attempts for a starting punter. Punts are probably inversely related to how prolific one's offense is. Last year, the Patriots were certainly in the top 3 offenses - therefore, there were fewer situations where punting was needed.

    With one quarter gone for this season, Allen already has the same number of attempts that Mesko had the entire 2012 season. The only stat that appears significant is the inside the 20 count; which is to Allen's credit.

    Looks like Allen is holding his own.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    More bandwidth wasted on punters, really? A bigger non-issue I can't think of. They're all the same. Mesko was good, this guy looks fine. Nothing to see here.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    I know some here don't put much stock in the position but after a 1/4 of the season I think it is working out to date based on production and economics factored in. Once the bad weather rolls in we should get a better idea how this decison worked out.

     

    Allen -    Rank 19/17   22 Punts     Long  65     AVG  44.9    NET  40.1    Inside 20  8

    Mesko - Rank  32/27   20 Punts     Long  52     AVG  41.9    NET  37.6   Inside 20  2  

     



    The problem with stat comparisons is that they exist in different conditions.

    Allen has a stronger leg, and gets better hang time than Mesko, but there is one stat that's telling...

    TOUCHBACKS!

    Mesko is a better directional punter than Allen. That alone make Mesko better.

    TBs - Allen 4 Mesko 0

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    More bandwidth wasted on punters, really? A bigger non-issue I can't think of. They're all the same. Mesko was good, this guy looks fine. Nothing to see here.



    Muzzy, I think the issue is did the Pats weaken the team THIS YEAR because of the cap NEXT YEAR?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    More bandwidth wasted on punters, really? A bigger non-issue I can't think of. They're all the same. Mesko was good, this guy looks fine. Nothing to see here.

     



    Muzzy, I think the issue is did the Pats weaken the team THIS YEAR because of the cap NEXT YEAR?

     



    Answer: No. They will not win or lose more games this year (or ever) because they switched punters. Head trainer might be more important.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    More bandwidth wasted on punters, really? A bigger non-issue I can't think of. They're all the same. Mesko was good, this guy looks fine. Nothing to see here.



    What happened on the final punt of Super Bowl 39?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    Is it just me or did the Pats have horrible field position most of the Atlanta game, and a lot of other games so far?  And is it just me or have a lot of our punts been going into the endzone?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    More bandwidth wasted on punters, really? A bigger non-issue I can't think of. They're all the same. Mesko was good, this guy looks fine. Nothing to see here.




    well, yes and no.  Punting can be pretty important when the offense is struggling; or especially when it comes to field position.

    Sure, ST doesn't get the attention as QB/WRs - but the Patriots can ill afford to have a punter shank a punt on one's own 5 yard line or can't consistently get the ball inside opponents 20 (vs. starting at the 20 because it was punted in the end zone).

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    In response to themightypatriots' comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    More bandwidth wasted on punters, really? A bigger non-issue I can't think of. They're all the same. Mesko was good, this guy looks fine. Nothing to see here.

     



    What happened on the final punt of Super Bowl 39?

     



    Nothing that changed the outcome of the game as far as I can tell. And if it did, it wouldn't prove anything except that you can win a Super Bowl with an average punter like Josh Miller. Or the guy before him, or Tom Tupa or Joe Shmo.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    In response to CubanPete's comment:

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

     

    I know some here don't put much stock in the position but after a 1/4 of the season I think it is working out to date based on production and economics factored in. Once the bad weather rolls in we should get a better idea how this decison worked out.

     

    Allen -    Rank 19/17   22 Punts     Long  65     AVG  44.9    NET  40.1    Inside 20  8

    Mesko - Rank  32/27   20 Punts     Long  52     AVG  41.9    NET  37.6   Inside 20  2  

     

     



    The problem with stat comparisons is that they exist in different conditions.

     

    Allen has a stronger leg, and gets better hang time than Mesko, but there is one stat that's telling...

    TOUCHBACKS!

    Mesko is a better directional punter than Allen. That alone make Mesko better.

    TBs - Allen 4 Mesko 0

     

     




    I don't think Allen is better yet but anyone can cherry pick stats to make their point.

    Mesko has 2 punts inside the 20 Allen has 8.

    Mesko has had over half of his punts returned which points to hang time or lack thereof where Allen has had less than 20% of his punts returned while having more punt attempts.

    we can cherry pick stats all day to make our points. The premise to the OP was to point out  that to date the chnge hasn't hurt yet. It also can't be judged in total until we see Allen punt in some type of bad weather.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tenace4life. Show tenace4life's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    In response to themightypatriots' comment:

    Is it just me or did the Pats have horrible field position most of the Atlanta game, and a lot of other games so far?  And is it just me or have a lot of our punts been going into the endzone?




    Allen has 8 inside the 20 and almost all occured when Slater was the gunner.  When the punter puts the ball down inside the 10 someone has to stop it from going into the end zone and right now the Pats have a rookie doing that . . . that is why I said they should look at picking up Stallworth, he is a good gunner and he can fill in if Tompkins or Dobson get hurt.  I don't think enough people appreciate the job that Slater does on this team and they miss him big time on special teams.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    In response to tenace4life's comment:


    Allen has 8 inside the 20 and almost all occured when Slater was the gunner.  When the punter puts the ball down inside the 10 someone has to stop it from going into the end zone and right now the Pats have a rookie doing that . . . that is why I said they should look at picking up Stallworth, he is a good gunner and he can fill in if Tompkins or Dobson get hurt.  I don't think enough people appreciate the job that Slater does on this team and they miss him big time on special teams.

     



    ST just gets no respect.....lol Laughing

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from tenace4life. Show tenace4life's posts

    Re: Revisiting the punter decision

    It does from Bill . . .

    http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/patriots/content/20130929-patriots-journal-slater-makes-the-trip-to-atlanta-despite-injury.ece

     

     
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