Revis's assessment of Moss

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronf. Show ronf's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    This should be a special match up between Revis and Wayne. The best at their respective positions in my book! 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    Hey CASPORTS hows your Chargers doi...oh thats right, its Jan so they choke on a pickle again!!! LOL LOL LOL- You said 3 weeks ago you'd be back to rub it in our faces lol lol. Your such a D Bag, and most of you have no clue what your talking about. Mbeau your hoping on a guys p rick after two good years. And theres a real argument that Nnamdi and Woody are just as good , if not better. Their both more complete and Moss beat Woody a couple of times, and Harris. Clearly you dont watch football, if you had then you would had seen Coles and Wayne beat Revis multiple times. The Jokes play great team D, their great at read and attack not read and react like some team do. And BTW I was at the first game and Moss beat Revis more than his fair share of times. Brady was hit 21 times, and thats not including hurries. So morons like you , just look at the stat sheet and think Revis "shut him down" And one more thing out of 77 plays Revis only had Moss 7 times 1 on 1. thats not a "shut down corner" Stop listening to Stu Scott and try and think for yourself. LOL LOL CASPORTS the best team your suxazz Chargers had in years and they choke choke choke just like your sister does on my doodle dandy. HAHAHA  LOL LOL LOL  What happened to rubbing it in our faces loser?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    What I don't get is why Revis wants to refer to guys he shuts down as "dogs" or "slouches."

    Larry Holmes nearly equalled Rocky Marciano's streak of undefeated title defenses -- but all anybody ever remembers about him is that he beat up on an old and washed Muhammad Ali and then proceeded to dominate a collection of has-beens and never-wases (?).

    If I was Revis, and I was going to waste my time talking, I would go on and on about how guys like Moss and TO are as dominant as they've ever been . . .


    except when I come around.



    Give Green New Jersey guys credit for a willingness to run their mouths . . .

    but also mark them down for not knowing how to do it.




     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Casportsfan. Show Casportsfan's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    Shennenigan:

    First of all, Jerry rice was 24 years old when he was drafted and Randy Moss was 21. Obviously, it's a little hard to compare their careers by age.  Do we really have to analyze the 2 td margin that Moss held over Rice for the single season TD record, when Moss played 3 more games than Rice in 2007?  That is like comparing records set in the 1970's during 14 games with 16 game records.

    By using your logic, for the sake of argument, I state that Kurt Warner was/Is a significantly better QB than Tom Brady.  Compare their numbers based upon seasons played, with Warner stepping onto a perrenial loser his first season. For that matter, Brett Favre is better as well.  I think you can see immediately why that type of logic doesn't wash. 

    It doesn't wash because great players do much more than put up numbers; they make plays when it counts.  I always loved Dominique Wilkins, but I could never win an argument that he was better than Bird or Jordan during their time.  He didn't raise the level of the team around him or make any clutch plays.  Like Moss, he did have gaudy stats and a highlight reel full of big plays though.

    I honestly cannot believe that we are seriously debating whether Moss was/is better than Rice, but since you bring up statistics as the clearest measuring stick
    a couple things should be noted here:

    The league is significantly more geared towards the pass in the modern era than it was in the 1980's.  You verify that very simply with the "greatest show on turf", the 49 and 50 td seasons put up by Manning and Brady respectively in the 2000's, and the average league leaders in TD's thrown.  I believe Montanta had one of his best seasons in 1989, throwing for 26 tds.  Now, I'm not saying that the Moss', Harrisons' and Ochocincos of the league are putting up "inflated" numbers, but the league is completely different now than it was then (without going into specifics).  I'll let you shoot that down if you like, but the numbers speak for themselves. 

    It is also a statistical Myth that Rice always played on dominant teams.  Joe Montana had back surgery in 1986 and played a portion of that year.  In 1986 the 49ers 1985 the 49ers were a 10 win team that was hammered by the Giants.  Steve Young stepped in around 1990 and was primarily a running QB until he fully developed.  No one ever begins to think that Rice MADE these QB's into half of what they were. 


    Moss also lined up opposite a future hall of famer in Chris Carter, something that Rice never had with the exception of TO near the tail end of his time in SF.  Moss had a pro-bowl QB in Dante Culpepper (whose numbers compared very favorably the first couple of seasons to Steve Youngs'), and a solid run game with Horde/Smith.  He had plenty of talent surrounding him, so it's hard to buy your argument.  People act as if Moss was on an island fending for himself all those years in Minn.  Well, he wasn't.  We know what happened when he actually WAS (Oakland).

    Jerry Rice also had the best statistical season of his career at age 33, racking in 1,800+ yds and 100+ receptions.  He was actually increasing his production with age, but blew his knee out the following year.  We'll see if Moss puts up those kind of numbers next year at age 33. 

    Moss doesn't have Rices' hands (which strangely enough are pretty important for a receiver), he makes zero YAK unless you consider YAK yards that he gets when he is already passed a defender.  Ever see Moss turn a 5 yd pass into an 80 yd td?  Me neither.

    He can't run routes and get open like Rice, he doesn't fight for balls the way Rice did . . . . . Christ, there are just so many levels where the two do not compare and never will.  Rice could do it all; block, fight for the ball, catch everything thrown his way, turn a 5 yd pass into an 80 yd td, and burn you deep.

    Of those qualities, Moss excells at one; burning teams deep.

    Like I said, Moss is a good 6 very productive seasons behind catching Rices' reception record, his yards record, etc. etc.  But those are still just STATS.  They only go so far.

    When has Moss EVER made a clutch play?  I am still waiting for those insights.  I just can't ever remember him doing much of anything in a big game.

    You may have your opinion, but if ESPN posted a poll asking who is the best of all time, I am sure about 90% of the country votes Rice.
     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    Dear freidrichnipple --

    Two Things:


    1.  There is no such thing as a NY Jets Hater, as there is no such thing as a NY Jet.

    They play in New Jersey.

    2.  No one is angry at Green New Jersey -- the focusing of anger is not a problem. If you weren't such a phenomenal deusche, you would realize that most Pats fans are rooting for the Jests this weekend. Sadly -- it appears -- , you are a phenomenal deusche, and so you can't seem to see real life standing right in front of you. That's okay. I can't speak for the rest of my brethren, but I, personally, will forgive you for that, as you appear to be some kind of NY apologist and I can only assume, therefore, not particulary bright.

    I would love nothing more than to see Green New Jersey prevail this weekend. As a Pats fan, that is hard for me to say . . .   but given the circumstandes, I'm willing to say it.  Of course, you and I both know that no such thing is going to happen, as you and I both know (although only one of us is willing to admit it) that Green New Jersey is a joke (although not quite as funny a joke as Blue New Jersey).

    In closing, I would like to point out that none of us will miss you next week, after the hated Colts make your pathetic team look silly and you have nothing left to say.

    But don't despair, nipples  . . .    even though you, yourself will not have the courage to come back here after the Jests fall on their collective faces this weekend, rest assured that the world is full of internet cowards like you, and you will be well represented next season, when the Pats take the division again.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    New Jersey Green and New Jersey Blue.    I think that is most appropriate and laughable.  I guess I also will be routing for the Jersey Green team.  Until the Superbowl anyway.  Then it's for whoever will be playing against the Green Slime.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    It's actually kind of funny, because, if either Moss, or T.O. were Revis' age, he would get smoked by either of them. I can remember Moss torching Deion Sanders multiple times. Before Revis opens his mouth, he should chew on that thought.

    Well said.  You just took the words out of my mouth.  No one could guard these guys, not even in their prime, and certainly not Revis.

    Basically, Revis' comments smack of youth and ignorance.  Not a good way to be. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    I just got on here a couple minutes ago, but Im glad their are guys like poch on here to talk some sense . CASPORTS just hates 81, plain and simple. Im not a TO fan at all, but he is a top 5 rec ever. Im sorry this might sound stupid, but to an extent winning is overrated. Just because a guy doesnt have a ring doesnt mean he isnt one of the best players to ever put on a helmet. Since 2000 we've seen guys like Grossman, Dilfer, and Brad Johnson get and in some cases win the big one. Are they better than or on par with Manning, Favre, and Brees, of coarse not, not even close. Is Timmy Smith better than Barry Sanders because of his play in the SB? To that extent winning is overrated, if Anderson doesnt choke on a 38 yard fg then the Vikes get to the SB in 98' , which btw was a team led by 81. Make no mistake about that , that team had a couple of good players on D, but Moss led that team with his passion, and stats. Same thing in 07' , if Moss could play some D, or if SS doesnt have a terrible game than your looking at 4 time champs. And when it matter most Moss step up and made plays on that final drive and caught the would be game winning TD. And saying he chokes in the playoffs , well your either dumb or just showing how much you hate him, your a loser. Look at his stats, those are not the numbers of someone who "disappears in the playoffs" as you've said b4. Ask Tony Dungy why he brouht back the Tampa2 and he'll tel you because of Moss, plain and simple. QB's never use to throw the ball in double coverage the way they do now and the term "getting the ball at its highest point" was made popular because of the freak. And again CASPORTS your either a moron or just showing how much you hate 81 because hes taking MANY 5 yard catches to the house from 40, 50 yards away. Just off the top of my head I can think of several including a beautiful one against Tenn. , he took a 5 yard bubble screen all the way from 50 yards away. One of the best TD's you'll ever see is the one against Dallas, he stutter stepped in mid-run and faked out 2 Dallas defenders before putting up 6. And another one I can think of right now is a simaler run to the Tenn. TD, but against NO, both were just pure SPEED. Seriously if you've watched footbal at all then you would know this, so you either dont or havent watched, or your just a hater. Im going with a hater, just listening to you its quite evident that your a front-running coward which fits in perfectly to the hater mentality. And I never heard anyone say Moss is better than Rice, those words never came out of my mouth and I never seen anyone write that on here or anywhere. What Im saying is that Moss is clearly on his level, from the talent standpoint its not even close, hes faster, stronger and his hands are just as good. Again your either a moron or a hater if you say Moss doesnt fight for the ball, yes he doesnt come down with every ball, but TV doesnt lie and you dont put up his #'s by dogging it and letting defenders over power you. If you just dont like someone thats fine, everyone has those guys that they just dont like. As I said b4 TO has never been a guy I like, but saying he sux because he had a couple playoff games or because he drops some balls is just dumb. You never answered me CASPORTS which hotel are you staying at in MIA to watch your Chargers? Man, this is all LT needs, a ring and hes the best ever! LOL LOL I really cant believe how you like LT, but hate on Moss? Moss has and does perform in the playoffs and had a pretty good game in the only SB he played in.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    Randy Moss vikings highlights on youtube, you'll see things no reveiver has done or will do. From 60-70 yard bombs, to double and sometimes triple coverage catches for TD's, to catching balls on the line of scrimmage and just running past everyone. You'll see him beat Woodsen, Harris, Mckensize, Hall, and Barber on plays no other receiver has every made. Watch some of those videos and tell me he isnt the fastest of elite rec's, and tell me he isnt on par with JR.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from maninCA. Show maninCA's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    Pochen;

    Thankyou for the links, I am checking them out.

    You will find no argument from me that Moss is not an amazing athlete.  He is.  He is probably one of the most physically gifted players to ever play any position, period.  As I posted, he ran a 4.2 40 on a cold morning in Marshall his senior year, without stretching.  I believe he has a 44+ inch vertical too.  Combined with his length, that made him almost ungaurdable in his prime.

    I never said he was not amazing.  My response regarding Rice was to one of the posts here that proclaimed Moss "best in history".  My argument was that he is not.  Not by statistical measures, intangibles, or other areas that are critical to the WR position.

    It just flat out amazes me how many people give him a free pass on coasting here, saying "yeah he may coast sometimes, but he is so much better than everyone else . . . " THAT IS THE PROBLEM.  He has that much talent, and as a result, he's never had to push himself.  That becomes a problem when you play a guy like Revis, who challenges you.  If you are used to blowing people away (like Moss) your entire life, a guy comes along with equal talent respective to his position, and you get the results Moss got against the Jets this year when Revis handled him.

    Sure, I am aware of his post season numbers.  They are pretty good.  But those numbers are piled up against the Saints, Cardinals, Rams, etc., either subpar competition or teams that the Vikings had fallen substantially behind and were playing catchup.  What I am talking about are plays with the game on the line to propel his teams to championchips. There are none.

    Look at Moss' numbers in AFC/NFC title games, including the superbowl.  They are terrible.  In the 2007 AFC title game he was completely shut out.  In the 1999 NFC title game he caught two balls.  In the 2007 superbowl he was nonexistent until the final 5 minutes of the game.  5 catches for 75 yds and a TD is not a Randy Moss/big time/game changing type game in any event.  Compare Rices' numbers in any superbowl he played, possibly with the exception of the Raider SB when he was near 40.

    This is why you are supposed to be upset that he doggs it at times.  You just can't turn on and off competitve fire.  No great player ever does.  When you play like that, it shows up in those huge games or against players like Revis.  Those guys steal his heart early and eat it.

    I'll agree that Moss is the most physically talented receiver to ever play.  He can jump, he is ungodly fast, and if had any kind of work ethic he could bully guys with strength and undoubtedly could have become a great route runner.  The bottom line is, he didn't though, and so he does one thing well.

    It's pretty telling that when the Vikings needed a 4th and 10, they went to Chris Carter.  When the Pats need to close out a game or a 4th and 8, they go to Wes Welker.  This is what I am talking about.

    There is more to being great than physical gifts or stats.  You can't measure hands with stats, or the ability to fight for the ball, or fight for a first down or extra yds, or blocking, or route running.  He just doesn't really do any of those things on a consistent basis, and he sure isn't a leader regardless of what anyone posts.  On the Vikes Carter was the leader, on the Raiders Moss kept his mouth shut (I should know, I live here and watched his sulking interviews) and did even less on the field.  He quit on the field.  Several times.  Leaders NEVER do that, regardless of the situation.  Ever.

    I think he is an amazing talent, and a poor competitor.  That's the bottom line for me. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from maninCA. Show maninCA's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    For the people posting that Moss blew away Deion, please post the video of that.  I'd love to see it.  Deion was flat out the most dominant corner ever to play, and I never saw Moss or any other receiver handle him.  That must be some kind of a joke.

    Deion Sanders was the fastest man to ever play this game.  Period.  End of discussion.  The guy ran a 10.0 100 meter at Florida State.  He would have trained and competed in the Olympics if he had wanted too.

    He was also physical and the best corner to ever play.  He was physical, had an explosive change of gear, understood how to use his body and play the ball, and flat out had the natural instinctual feel of how to play the postion.  To beat Deion you had to have more than just pure speed.

    I'm not sure where some of you get these claims, that he would have "torched so and so" . . . . what an insult to Deion.  That's like saying Lebron would destroy Jordan in his prime.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from maninCA. Show maninCA's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    Pochen;

    Those videos are amazing.  Like I said, he is the most physically gifted receiver to ever play.  He's explosive, could jump, had pure break away speed, and made some amazing grabs. 

    It's too bad he doesn't have the work ethic and drive to go along with those skills.  If he had been out running routes 24/7, catching balls, and running hills, he'd have been the best ever.

    If he hadn't given up in Minnessota, given up in Oakland, and now . . . .(does he dog it in N.E or not?) he'd have everyones respect.  I gaurantee you, without a doubt, if the Pats did or do take a nose dive into the 8-8 range (hypothetically speaking), he's going to give up again.  He's going to quite on your team just like he did on those other teams.

    It's in his DNA not to compete. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    I'm guessing the CA stands for California which probably means an affinity for the 49ers.  The point is that no matter where you want to put Moss on the list of great WR's, he will be at the top.  He knows how to play WR, and anybody that sits back it their couch and say's "he needs to do this or that" doesn't know.  Moss produces results, he is a league leader every year. 

    As for your measurement of the immeasurables of leadership, and competitive drive, that is you're opinion.  I don't know Moss and I never played on a team with him so I prefer to stick to what we do know- he scores TD's and gets yards.  Perhaps I just get tired of hearing criticism that is abstract like "he needs to try harder, or go after the ball".  People think other receivers have better games like Ochocinco, Larry Fitzegerald, Reggie Wayne or Brandon Marshall.  Those guys have less yards and TD's than Moss this year (Fitz tied for 1st in TD''s with Moss but had less yards).  And this was a slow year for Moss.  They are not better every game but somehow worse for the season.  Those guys have bad games because WR's cannot truly take over a game if the defense commits to it.

    As for Revis, he is one of many players lately who is not satisfied to let people see he is great, he has to tell everyone how great he is.  I don't like it, I think it makes him look like a punk.  He is still great but now he will have a microscope on him now, and he will be on Sportscenter next time he gets burnt for a big play, and it will happen sometime. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from maninCA. Show maninCA's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    Shennenigan;

    I am guessing you are too young to have watched Rice play, and I can see liking Moss.  He is fun to watch. I'm still asking for a signature play from Moss in the clutch though.  No one has named one yet.  The only one I can remember was when I rooted for Vikes in the 1998 NFC Championchip game, and  Cunningham throws a jump ball in single coverage in overtime to Moss, about a 50 yd pass.  If he catches it they win.  He couldn't make the catch.  I said aloud, "you made that catch all year!" 

    SB in 2007.  2 deep balls to Moss at the end of the game.  Arguabley the most talented team to ever play. Hall of fame QB.  No excuses.  He didn't make the catch.  Instead of fighting for the ball, he waited for it to fall from the heavens .  You have to make the plays against the best teams, the best competition.  That is what makes a great player.  He just doesn't. 

    I just have zero memories of him doing anything in the big moment.  No rings.  A 15-1 team and a 16-0 team and no big plays in the moment, no rings.  Can't use the "he didn't have the talent around him" argument. 

    You are correct, I live in CA.  It's hard to understand what you are using to substantiate your claim.  You use stats as the measuring stick, but Rice owns nearly every record known to man.  I don't get it.

    Like I posted, if Moss stays healthy for about 6 more years, and stays very productive, he'll probably break the all-time TD receiving record.  That is the only record I can realistically see him breaking, at about age 37 or 38.  That may or may not happen, who knows, but it really doesn't support your position very well.

    Physically more gifted?  Sure.  

    Pochen;

    Truth be told, I do dislike Moss quite a bit, simply because I played from about age 9 through 21, and I don't like quitters.  I can also admit he is a first ballot hall of famer and the best talent to ever play.l  

    I can also say that he is amazing to watch when he puts his mind to it.  Those highlight reels are unreal.  It's just too bad he doesn't have that fire inside of him that makes him P----d when a guy like Revis gets in his mug.

     
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    ManinCA you cant have it both ways, if he puts up #'s in the postseason you cant say it was against chitty teams. Their playoff teams, are the jokes a chitty team, they got to at least the AFC champ game? And saying he performs in playoffs games, but not AFC/NFC champ games is a dumb argument, im sorry. Off the top of my head he had 75 and TD against the Falcons in one NFC champ game, thats not bad at all. And again saying he disappeared inthe SB is also stupid, did you watch it? He cant pass block than go run a fade pattern at the same time and when the oline did man up he did his job on that final drivr and caught the would be game winning TD. Thats a weak argument. And "dog it" in oakland, are you kidding me, thats the dumbest one of your arguments. How can he "dog it" if he cant get off the line, whoever was "trying" to play QB was sacked 120 times!!!!!!! Are you serious!!! He has Brooks, Walter, ISUCKO, Collins throwing to him in two years and their sacked 120 times and hes "dogging it". No help at all in terms of guys taking pressure off him at all. Sorry man , but those were weak arguments.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    And again maninca do a little research b4 you speak. The first game Moss beat Revis time and time again, beat him on prolly 60-70% of the plays. Brady was HIT 21 times, not including hurries. Look at the all 22 tape and you would have seen that. I was at that game and watched the tape on shows like playbook and nfl matchup and saw 81 beat him off the line and had steps on him. And one more thing out of 77 plays Revis only "mand up" on 7 plays. 7 out of 77, hardly a "shut down" corner! No corner in the league can cover 81  1 on 1, even at age 32. Moss in his prime beat guys like Woodsen, Harris, Hall , Mckensize, all guys on Revis' level. Woodsen and Harris were more complete and IMHO better.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from maninCA. Show maninCA's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    Pochen:

    That is EXACTLY what I am saying, to a tee.  Moss should own Revis or any DB.  It's too bad that he doesn't want too all the time.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SICOFITALL. Show SICOFITALL's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

                 7 out of 77 plays




    Thats how many times Revis had Moss 1 on 1! And again Moss beat him more than his fair share in the first game. I was at it and saw proof on tape. He was also beat by Coles ans Wayne, Wayne was overthrown twice b4 he was taken out. And CP just didnt find Coles most likely beacuse he either afraid of Revis or was pick n stick with ocho. Wacth a little tape, this guy can be beat. But keep ignoring me and listening to Stuart Scott.                     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    maninCA,

    I'm not too young to remember Rice.  I simply disagree that Moss doesn't try, or that he quits because he produces year in and year out.  I see you're point.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from maninCA. Show maninCA's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    Shennenigan;

    It's tough to argue with Moss' numbers.  He definitely produces year in and year out. I remember his signature game against the Cowboys his rookie year on Thanksgiving where he singlehandedly dominated the entire game.

    I kind of have the same feeling about Moss that I had about T.O.  When T.O was a Niner, I loved watching him play, but when he started to quit on the team, I just wanted him out.  I didn't care how hard he tried with other teams after that.

    Moss is great no doubt about it or need to debate that though.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronf. Show ronf's posts

    Re: Revis's assessment of Moss

    I agree with Sam-Adams. What makes Revis great is that he plays the the ball and the QB. Watch all the great CBs and they are focused on the QB. They have they're head around and playing the ball. Revis reminds me of Ty Law. He plays hard every down.He contests every pass. He jams the WR at the LOS. That is why he can call Moss out. The champions play every down with intensity. That is what keeps Moss from being a champion. Talent alone is not enough. You have to have fire and intensity to be a champion. You have to be a fierce competitor to be in the same league with guys like Jerry Rice! 
     

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