RIP NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dwhite1220. Show dwhite1220's posts

    Re: RIP NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF

    In response to RockScully's comment:
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    In response to HonkeyTonkman's comment:
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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    Nobody was telling the South they had to end slavery at the outset of the Civil War. But the Missouri Compromise created the state of Maine which was actually Massachusetts prior to that in order to keep the precarious slave/free state balance when Missouri was admitted. The South rightly saw that eventually as territories became states in the west their reprehensible institution would be ending. So they made a break for it.

    As far as Robert E. Lee, few realize he was offered command of all union forces at the time the Civil War was looming. And few realize he was eventually stripped of his US citizenship and that it was only restored in 1975.

    And few realize that "Old Blood and Guts" came from a long line of Confederate military fighters.

     

    RIP General Blackhead

    [/QUOTE]No the Civil war was fought over trade money and power, all rich people on either side had slaves.I expect better from you jerry.


    [/QUOTE]

    "All"? That's completely false.    The South was mostly agrarian so they had to have slaves to survive, in their minds.

    I am sure there are metrics out there by population in terms of how many slaves were on farms/plantations in comparing each part of the country, but there is no way "all" rich people had slaves in the North. Sorry.

     

    [/QUOTE] Fact: Over 80 % of the Southners who fought in the war DIDN'T own slaves. It was a rich man's war. Lincoln would've kept slavery to stop the war and apease the South, but they were to stupid/arrogant and bent for war.


     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: RIP NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF

    Norman Scwarzkopf was the right leader in the right place at the right time.  By all accounts, an extraordinary general.  

    May I suggest, however, that to generalize that all generals are/were like him is off the mark.  I've served under a number of admirals and each was unique, had his own leadership and management style and possessed his own distinctive personality traits.  There's no reason to believe that generals are any different.

    I'd be astonished if Patton lasted 5 minutes today if his personality were anything like I've read about or seen portrayed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from krismk. Show krismk's posts

    Re: RIP NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF

    Attention Readers

    Please remain in your seats. This thread has been hijacked and is being flown to Mid-19th century America.

    No one will be hurt, but if you cooperate and follow the debate, I swear you will be bored to death.

    Flight attendants...please assist with the passenger's comfort by splashing hot coffee, tea or ice water into their eyes.

    Remain calm and no one will get hurt. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: RIP NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RockScully's comment:
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    The South didn't want to be told what to do, basically needing to invest in inventions and equipment, stemming from the dawn of the Industrial Revolution. That's pretty much the long and short of it.

    To this day, there is an anti-Yankee sentiment down here which is kind of awkward at this point.

    Proud people with their traditions, but they'll never hide behind the disgrace that was wanting to keep slavery intact, just a measly 150 years ago.

    Always wondered if not for Lincoln's guts and heroics, just when would have slavery ended? Scary to think about.

    [/QUOTE]


    The North wasn't always kind after and during their victory.

    Lincoln ended slavery out of desperation. But, being a Republican that would have been his eventual goal.

    [/QUOTE]

    No countries or enemies/post war recovery belligerents were. 

    That concept only started post World War I and the Versailles Treaty (1919), which Hitler and the Germans used as their excuse for their totalitarian behavior in the 1920s and into the 1930s.

    Since WWII, it's now common for the victor to actually build up their previous enemy, where the learning tool from that was the Versailles Treay and how it didn't really allow Germany, in partciular, to rebuild.

     

    [/QUOTE]



    The Versailles Treaty imposed much more than simply restrictions on Germany's military. The reparations it also demanded were widely hated and rather severe considering Germany was a barely beaten foe.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: RIP NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The South didn't want to be told what to do, basically needing to invest in inventions and equipment, stemming from the dawn of the Industrial Revolution. That's pretty much the long and short of it.

    To this day, there is an anti-Yankee sentiment down here which is kind of awkward at this point.

    Proud people with their traditions, but they'll never hide behind the disgrace that was wanting to keep slavery intact, just a measly 150 years ago.

    Always wondered if not for Lincoln's guts and heroics, just when would have slavery ended? Scary to think about.

    [/QUOTE]


    The North wasn't always kind after and during their victory.

    Lincoln ended slavery out of desperation. But, being a Republican that would have been his eventual goal.

    [/QUOTE]

    No countries or enemies/post war recovery belligerents were. 

    That concept only started post World War I and the Versailles Treaty (1919), which Hitler and the Germans used as their excuse for their totalitarian behavior in the 1920s and into the 1930s.

    Since WWII, it's now common for the victor to actually build up their previous enemy, where the learning tool from that was the Versailles Treay and how it didn't really allow Germany, in partciular, to rebuild.

     

    [/QUOTE]



    The Versailles Treaty imposed much more than simply restrictions on Germany's military. The reparations it also demanded were widely hated and rather severe considering Germany was a barely beaten foe.

    [/QUOTE]

    Militarily they may not have  beaten badly but their morale was crushed. It was only going to get worse the longer the war went. All their allies were gone and the Americans were just really getting started. Germany may have survived another year at most. Their economy was in horrible shape and it was only going to get worse. They wanted Woodrow Wilson to save them but the British and French had no intention of allowing that to happen.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from krismk. Show krismk's posts

    Re: RIP NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF

    GEN Schwartzkopf was known as "The Bear" .."Stormin Norman" was CNN BS

     Like Patton, you either loved him or hated him depending on whether you were a subordinate, a peer or his superior.

    He earned respect and was an effective officer, a good soldier, and a great American.

    We need to produce more soldiers like him.

     

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: RIP NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF

    In response to krismk's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    GEN Schwartzkopf was known as "The Bear" .."Stormin Norman" was CNN BS

     Like Patton, you either loved him or hated him depending on whether you were a subordinate, a peer or his superior.

    He earned respect and was an effective officer, a good soldier, and a great American.

    We need to produce more soldiers like him.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    It'll be hard to produce them like that. He was a product of the Vietnam war and it's effect on the Army he loved. He was one of those guys that rebuilt the US military into the force it is today. The failure of vietnam created a cadre of leaders who swore they would never let it happen again. In the 80's the geneva convention was taught to everyone in the military and it was considered important. These guys would not tolerate torture because of the negative effects it had on the Army's reputation even if it is effective at times. Stuff like My Lai ate at these guys. Everyone who has served in the Army or the Marines today owes it to guys like Schwarzkopf that they are held in such high esteem today. I remember the term "baby killer" and normal people agreeing with it, not just hippees..

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from krismk. Show krismk's posts

    Re: RIP NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF

    In response to ccnsd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to krismk's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    GEN Schwartzkopf was known as "The Bear" .."Stormin Norman" was CNN BS

     Like Patton, you either loved him or hated him depending on whether you were a subordinate, a peer or his superior.

    He earned respect and was an effective officer, a good soldier, and a great American.

    We need to produce more soldiers like him.

     

     

     [/QUOTE]

    It'll be hard to produce them like that. He was a product of the Vietnam war and it's effect on the Army he loved. He was one of those guys that rebuilt the US military into the force it is today. The failure of vietnam created a cadre of leaders who swore they would never let it happen again. In the 80's the geneva convention was taught to everyone in the military and it was considered important. These guys would not tolerate torture because of the negative effects it had on the Army's reputation even if it is effective at times. Stuff like My Lai ate at these guys. Everyone who has served in the Army or the Marines today owes it to guys like Schwarzkopf that they are held in such high esteem today. I remember the term "baby killer" and normal people agreeing with it, not just hippees..

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I've been there


    I can't speak for our current soldiers. These men and women have things more complicated, and I think, more difficult, because of the instant media coverage and second guessing.  Historically, low intensity conflict (vietnam/80 years war) requires better trained or veteran soldiers.

     

     

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