RKarp or anyone camping tomorrow...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: RKarp or anyone camping tomorrow...

    In response to mthurl's comment:


    Outstanding Mel! And I thought we weren't going to hear much today. Your comments on Revis are very interesting - him being just a smart and natural player - because when you look at him physically he doesn't really standout, I've heard he's strong, but he doesn't necessarily look like it. So it makes sense that he is just this instinctive, natural, flowing player. Good assessment.


    I agree on Wilfork, I've seen him in camp before and you're right, he is just a huge specimen...very few guys that big.


    Some interesting comments on the tight end Jones, but who is the running back Jones?




    I believe Jones was signed last season during the season for the practice squad..he's 5-10/220, ran with a low center of gravity and doesn't give the D a big target with his running style and hits the hole quickly....from what I saw today he's ahead of Houston.


    BTW...while WR's are all pumping arms and legs, Revis looks like he's taking a casual walk in the park...absolutely placid style...you can tell he's in incredible shape...you'd have to be to move you body so easily and not move your upper body much to maintain balance and momentum...he just doesn't look like he's working hard but he's got ZERO wasted effort or motion.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_483130. Show user_483130's posts

    Re: RKarp or anyone camping tomorrow...

    In response to rkarp's comment:
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    In response to m. a. pat's comment:
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    In response to rkarp's comment:
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    In response to Cyberknot's comment:
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    rkarp-Is Boyce showing anything out there? He is the guy I am really hoping can make the team. You don't often see a receiver that solidly built with that kind of speed. Love those guys that can score from anywhere on the field.

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    Yes, Boyce stands out among these WR's. He is easily the most athletic and the fastest. IMO he does have the most upside of all the WR's. I don't understand the bubble talk about him. You simply don't give up on this type of talent aft 1 injury filled rookie year. The glimpses we saw showed what this guy can do. I think the team needs to find a way to put the ball in his hands 6-8 times a game. 

     

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    Boyce definitely looks like a special talent and I agree the Pats need to find a way to get him involved in the offense. My concerns with him: Can he stay healthy? Does he know the offense and understand how to adjust his patterns to get in sync with Brady?

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    You are 100% correct

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    In would add an excessive number of drops...he needs to work on that as well,

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: RKarp or anyone camping tomorrow...

    Thanks Mel and Karp, 

    I am most worried about online, Connolly rapt center and cannon at rg with Mayberry stork taking over is all I can hope foyr

    am worried about the lbs depth the next

    for some reason I am not worried about the wrs

    i am hoping jones at te becomes a monster


    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: RKarp or anyone camping tomorrow...

    In response to mellymel3's comment:


    In response to mthurl's comment:


    [QUOTE]


     


     


    Outstanding Mel! And I thought we weren't going to hear much today. Your comments on Revis are very interesting - him being just a smart and natural player - because when you look at him physically he doesn't really standout, I've heard he's strong, but he doesn't necessarily look like it. So it makes sense that he is just this instinctive, natural, flowing player. Good assessment.


     


    I agree on Wilfork, I've seen him in camp before and you're right, he is just a huge specimen...very few guys that big.


     


    Some interesting comments on the tight end Jones, but who is the running back Jones?


     


     




    I believe Jones was signed last season during the season for the practice squad..he's 5-10/220, ran with a low center of gravity and doesn't give the D a big target with his running style and hits the hole quickly....from what I saw today he's ahead of Houston.


     


     


    BTW...while WR's are all pumping arms and legs, Revis looks like he's taking a casual walk in the park...absolutely placid style...you can tell he's in incredible shape...you'd have to be to move you body so easily and not move your upper body much to maintain balance and momentum...he just doesn't look like he's working hard but he's got ZERO wasted effort or motion.


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    That's great to hear about Revis - think about what this guy did for the Jets - if he is that type of player for us we are golden. He will make the entire team better, I can't imagine what it will be like to have a guy that special on our defense.


    It sounds like Revis moves like Ken Griffy Jr used to hit a baseball...effortless.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: RKarp or anyone camping tomorrow...

    In response to mthurl's comment:
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    In response to mellymel3's comment:

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    Outstanding Mel! And I thought we weren't going to hear much today. Your comments on Revis are very interesting - him being just a smart and natural player - because when you look at him physically he doesn't really standout, I've heard he's strong, but he doesn't necessarily look like it. So it makes sense that he is just this instinctive, natural, flowing player. Good assessment.

     

     

     

    I agree on Wilfork, I've seen him in camp before and you're right, he is just a huge specimen...very few guys that big.

     

     

     

    Some interesting comments on the tight end Jones, but who is the running back Jones?

     

     

     

     

     

     

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    I believe Jones was signed last season during the season for the practice squad..he's 5-10/220, ran with a low center of gravity and doesn't give the D a big target with his running style and hits the hole quickly....from what I saw today he's ahead of Houston.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    BTW...while WR's are all pumping arms and legs, Revis looks like he's taking a casual walk in the park...absolutely placid style...you can tell he's in incredible shape...you'd have to be to move you body so easily and not move your upper body much to maintain balance and momentum...he just doesn't look like he's working hard but he's got ZERO wasted effort or motion.

     

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    That's great to hear about Revis - think about what this guy did for the Jets - if he is that type of player for us we are golden. He will make the entire team better, I can't imagine what it will be like to have a guy that special on our defense.

     

    It sounds like Revis moves like Ken Griffy Jr used to hit a baseball...effortless.

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    That's a big 10-4 - effortless and confident.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: RKarp or anyone camping tomorrow...

    I was concerned about revis in some ways

    he is hired gun, he may only be here one year, I was wondering if There was any hangover from hisbb comments and of course his injury

    i was silly and wrong on all of them, he may be a hired gun, but he is now our hired gun

    i don't think the supposed new emphasis on db int rules applies to him

    a few more years and he is an upper level HoFer
    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NCPatsFan1971. Show NCPatsFan1971's posts

    Re: RKarp or anyone camping tomorrow...

    Great Job Mel and everyone reporting from Training Camp.  


     


     


     


    I appreciate the reports from everyone able to get a first hand look at camp.  I remember visiting training camp back when it was at Bryant College in RI in the early 90's and that was a lot of fun.  Wish I could be up there with you guys.  :)


     


     


     


     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: RKarp or anyone camping tomorrow...

    In response to rkarp's comment:
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    I know, I sound like a broken record here, but a healthy Amendola is a difference maker.

    Go back and review either the tape, or the game stats on Dobson against the Steelers when he started to "get it"

    I don't want to sound like a homer, but I put Gronk, Edelman, Amendola, Dobson and Vereen at the top of the list when talking about a group of offensive passing weapons in the entire league, even higher than the broncos. 

    Let's simply say that if Boyce can break out to 20-25 catches this season, and he is the Pats 6th weapon, I would be very pleased. 

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    I agree, and to those saying this group doesn't look good because the 5th and 6th options in Boyce and KT are unkowns, I would say....what??? They are the 5th and 6th options!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: RKarp or anyone camping tomorrow...

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I agree, and to those saying this group doesn't look good because the 5th and 6th options in Boyce and KT are unkowns, I would say....what??? They are the 5th and 6th options!

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    Normally I'd agree but I think the main concern with most people is can Gronk stay healthy? Can Amendola stay healthy and provide more than he did last year? Is Edelman going to stay healthy or was last year more of a one off year? Is Dobson going to be ready for the start of the season, will that foot slow him down, and how much will missing a chunk of preseason hurt his development? Can Vereen stay healthy? All of these are legitimate concerns and given past history suggests the 5th and 6th options might play a much larger role then you are suggesting they would.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: RKarp or anyone camping tomorrow...

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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     You guys have to learn to temper your expectations.  Boyce is a fourth round pick who's done nothing yet.  Maybe he'll prove he can play, but saying that the Pats have a great receiving corp because of guys like Boyce and Thompkins is silly.  They have guys with some potential, but these guys are not yet great receivers . . . not even close. 

     

     

     

    From Patriots.com on today's practice:

     

     

     

    --Mallett’s deep ball to Boyce beating Browner down the left sideline was one of the few bright spots early in camp for the second-year receiver. He continues to have inconsistent hands, falls down sometimes and for a guy who is supposed to be a speedy deep threat seems to lack that extra gear to go after the ball when it’s in the air.

     

    --Kenbrell Thompkins had a bad drop on a backside slant on a throw from Brady in team action.

     

    --Those players not taking part included Aaron Dobson (foot/PUP), Matthew Slater (PUP), Jeremy Gallon (PUP),

     

     

     

    --Brandon LaFell has shown inconsistent hands to date in camp but made a pretty one-handed catch on a crossing route over the middle in group work with the quarterbacks.

     

     

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    I agree and this is why I dont get why everyone is all over KT when Boyce is doing the same and Dobson isnt even on the field. Every week that goes by and Dobson is on the sidelines, the more likely he start on PUP.

    My thing is this. Boyce was a 4th rounder so naturally he should be more talented than a UDFA, but he hasnt turned that talent into production yet and is further behind both Dobson/KT in terms of being comfortable in the system. This is what I was trying to tell Eng. All the negatives with KT have happened with Boyce as well at a higher rate. To date, No threads on Boyce. Boyce Needs to run routes better and be quicker at the line. Speed is nice but if you cant get past the jam....   KT needs to learn to catch with his hands more and stop letting balls get into his body and try to clamp them...But he is getting open consistently.

     

    Wozzy, I did see that Hightower IS getting some looks on 3rd down to rush the passer which Ive always thought he was good at. Rookie year did it but last year just covered. Liked to see Collins covering more and Hightower rushing. Collins can do both so he will be that Joker on the field, lining up everywhere, moving before the snap IMO. Big things expected from him.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: RKarp or anyone camping tomorrow...

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
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    I agree and this is why I dont get why everyone is all over KT when Boyce is doing the same and Dobson isnt even on the field. Every week that goes by and Dobson is on the sidelines, the more likely he start on PUP.

    My thing is this. Boyce was a 4th rounder so naturally he should be more talented than a UDFA, but he hasnt turned that talent into production yet and is further behind both Dobson/KT in terms of being comfortable in the system. This is what I was trying to tell Eng. All the negatives with KT have happened with Boyce as well at a higher rate. To date, No threads on Boyce. Boyce Needs to run routes better and be quicker at the line. Speed is nice but if you cant get past the jam....   KT needs to learn to catch with his hands more and stop letting balls get into his body and try to clamp them...But he is getting open consistently.

     

    Wozzy, I did see that Hightower IS getting some looks on 3rd down to rush the passer which Ive always thought he was good at. Rookie year did it but last year just covered. Liked to see Collins covering more and Hightower rushing. Collins can do both so he will be that Joker on the field, lining up everywhere, moving before the snap IMO. Big things expected from him.

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    The difference is, and just perception between me and you, I see Boyce as having more potential and you see KT as having more potential. Boyce couldn't stay healthy on the field last year. We have more evidence in terms of KT's ability to suggest he wasn't improving as the year went on and more evidence suggesting drops might be an issue. Getting open was an issue last year and from patriots.com was reported it's still an issue at times this camp. He's having an up and down camp much like he did last year. Not sure where you get the higher rate from though as I haven't heard as many issues with Boyce so far as I've heard with Thompkins, such as BB yelling at him for hitting the ground instantly and Thompkins leading the team in drops so far. If Dobson gets PuPed then yes it opens a spot for Thompkins, but if Dobson isn't PuPed he is fighting for the last spot and might be on the outside looking in if he doesn't make corrections to his game that got him benched prior to his injury.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: RKarp or anyone camping tomorrow...

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Thanks Mel and Karp, 

    I am most worried about online, Connolly rapt center and cannon at rg with Mayberry stork taking over is all I can hope foyr

    am worried about the lbs depth the next

    for some reason I am not worried about the wrs

    i am hoping jones at te becomes a monster


    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

    [/QUOTE]


    If this guy can stick at Tight end, I would love to see him over Hooman who has the body of a move tight end but barely gets any looks. Gronk at 6'7" and Jones at 6'8" would do wonders in the run game. I imagine more so on goal line. I dont see them keeping 3 TE's on active roster. I see Gronk/Hooman w/Jones/Watson/Williams fighting for a spot which puts D.J. williams in a bad spot as he isnt p/s eligible.

    Now if J.Jones keeps improving, maybe he warrants being on active roster. I would love to see him spelling Gronk during season to limit his hits.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: RKarp or anyone camping tomorrow...

    In response to PatsEng's comment:





     






    In response to TripleOG's comment:



     






    I agree and this is why I dont get why everyone is all over KT when Boyce is doing the same and Dobson isnt even on the field. Every week that goes by and Dobson is on the sidelines, the more likely he start on PUP.






    My thing is this. Boyce was a 4th rounder so naturally he should be more talented than a UDFA, but he hasnt turned that talent into production yet and is further behind both Dobson/KT in terms of being comfortable in the system. This is what I was trying to tell Eng. All the negatives with KT have happened with Boyce as well at a higher rate. To date, No threads on Boyce. Boyce Needs to run routes better and be quicker at the line. Speed is nice but if you cant get past the jam....   KT needs to learn to catch with his hands more and stop letting balls get into his body and try to clamp them...But he is getting open consistently.






     






    Wozzy, I did see that Hightower IS getting some looks on 3rd down to rush the passer which Ive always thought he was good at. Rookie year did it but last year just covered. Liked to see Collins covering more and Hightower rushing. Collins can do both so he will be that Joker on the field, lining up everywhere, moving before the snap IMO. Big things expected from him.






     








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    The difference is, and just perception between me and you, I see Boyce as having more potential and you see KT as having more potential. Boyce couldn't stay healthy on the field last year. We have more evidence in terms of KT's ability to suggest he wasn't improving as the year went on and more evidence suggesting drops might be an issue. Getting open was an issue last year and from patriots.com was reported it's still an issue at times this camp. He's having an up and down camp much like he did last year. Not sure where you get the higher rate from though as I haven't heard as many issues with Boyce so far as I've heard with Thompkins, such as BB yelling at him for hitting the ground instantly and Thompkins leading the team in drops so far. If Dobson gets PuPed then yes it opens a spot for Thompkins, but if Dobson isn't PuPed he is fighting for the last spot and might be on the outside looking in if he doesn't make corrections to his game that got him benched prior to his injury.




     




     






    No Eng, we are in agreement that Boyce has way more potential than KT but like I keep saying, BB doesnt keep players with potential over players with production so until Boyce starts producing, he is behind IMO.


     


     


     


     


    Everyone who has been at camp has said Boyce has not only dropped more balls but doesnt look comfortable in offense and also hits the ground. So while Boyce is talented, they are performing the same. BB will Keep the hard working KT over Boyce if all things are equal and they are last 2 but again, I dont see why both cant stick.


     


     


     


    For my money, KT is not going anywhere.


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


    Also, why do you expect so much from rookie WRs? How many have failed in the past? 2nd rounders like Jackson, #3rd rounders like Price who also was fast. Rookies dont usually get better down the stretch, they hit the rookie wall. Atleast he was healthy and contributing before injury, meanwhile Boyce has had 3 foot injuries in last year alone and it looks like a pattern. You should know this.


     


     


     


    This just In!  Defenders get paid Too. In fact, CBs get paid a lot. WR dont get open on every play!  lol


     


     


     


    You are getting your info from Rkarp who also doesnt think much of KT. If you read the whole board, everyone sais Boyce is struggling. KT looks the part and gets open, just has shaky hands.  Please show me where there is a tracker for the most dropped passes in camp so far..this is getting silly. We can both find reports, negative or positive but truth is, KT has been the better peformer so far. This is what I go by, not potential.


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


    At some point in the last couple of years your expectations have grown to ridiculous proportions. Knowing how hard it is to make it here, I would think KT would receive more praise than criticism for doing more as an UDFA than any of the recent WRs picked muched higher in the last 5 years here. He was asked to START last year instead of being the complimentary piece he should have been and naturally became overwhelmed. Need to add context to your analysis.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: RKarp or anyone camping tomorrow...

    In response to TripleOG's comment:


     




    No Eng, we are in agreement that Boyce has way more potential than KT but like I keep saying, BB doesnt keep players with potential over players with production so until Boyce starts producing, he is behind IMO.


    Everyone who has been at camp has said Boyce has not only dropped more balls but doesnt look comfortable in offense and also hits the ground. So while Boyce is talented, they are performing the same. BB will Keep the hard working KT over Boyce if all things are equal and they are last 2 but again, I dont see why both cant stick.


    For my money, KT is not going anywhere.


    Also, why do you expect so much from rookie WRs? How many have failed in the past? 2nd rounders like Jackson, #3rd rounders like Price who also was fast. Rookies dont usually get better down the stretch, they hit the rookie wall. Atleast he was healthy and contributing before injury, meanwhile Boyce has had 3 foot injuries in last year alone and it looks like a pattern. You should know this.


    This just In!  Defenders get paid Too. In fact, CBs get paid a lot. WR dont get open on every play!  lol


    You are getting your info from Rkarp who also doesnt think much of KT. If you read the whole board, everyone sais Boyce is struggling. KT looks the part and gets open, just has shaky hands.  Please show me where there is a tracker for the most dropped passes in camp so far..this is getting silly. We can both find reports, negative or positive but truth is, KT has been the better peformer so far. This is what I go by, not potential.





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    Sure he does McKenzie, Tate, Price, Bequette. He keeps potential around for 2-3 years even without production all the time. You just don't see their names called often so you tend to forget they are even on the team.


    I expect to see signs of improvement or at least some consistency. I saw it with Dobson but I saw Thompkins regress after NO. Not sure how after 6 weeks you can call that hitting a wall. If that's hitting a wall there is something wrong more than just being a rook.


    This just in that's a WR's job! You won't get open every play but Thompkins had issues getting open period last year. Some of that is being a rook but some of that is on Thompkins play, which is why BB started taking reps away and benched him prior to his injury.


    I got my info from Patriots.com which I would hope is a reliable source. Like, from Paul Perillo "If Thompkins stays healthy and consistent I think he has a chance to be a contributing player. Does that mean he'll be star? Probably not, but for an undrafted player that's still pretty good. My early impressions of him thus far in camp would be a continuation of what we saw last summer – he's had some real nice moments and others that haven't been as nice. He still seems to struggle with his consistency catching the ball, although he has turned in a number of difficult catches already in camp."


    So as I've said about him inconsistent and has ups and downs similar to last years camp. 


    As far as expectations I'm looking at this kid as needing to fight for a last roster spot as a kid who lost reps and was benched by mid season, you call him a smaller Andre Johnson and think he's a lock for the team. I think my expectations are closer inline to reality than yours right now.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: RKarp or anyone camping tomorrow...

    Like the Boyce/Thompkinds debate.  Good stuff - keep it coming.  The way I see it, KT has shown flashes but became inconsistent and dropped off later in the season.  Boyce, OTOH, was dinged up and never really showed much.  Not so much an inconsistency issue as getting comfortable/familiar with the offense. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: RKarp or anyone camping tomorrow...

    I think you have me all wrong on KT Triple. For some reason you have it in your head I have something personal against the guy which isn't the case. I understand he's your guy and you feel you need to defend him and take any downside as hating the guy but hear out my reasons.

    I think we carry 6 WR's this year. To me Edelman, Amendola, Slater, Dobson are locks. Knowing BB doesn't give up on higher draft picks after just 2 camps if the players can stay on the field and knowing Boyce's potential is higher than Thompkins (something you have admitted) I give him the 5th spot. That means for me it leaves LaFell, Gallon, Johnson, and Hooser (who's been gaining interest lately). LaFell is a vet with more production than Thompkins so if as you say it's about production then he gets the nod. He might even have a slight advantage due to the contract but for some reason I doubt BB would care about money and cut him anyways. If the rooks show they can be a big benefit in the return game (something we've been lacking for a while) that might give them an advantage over the 5th WR roster spot on the team. To me Thompkins regressed, lost reps, and was benched prior to injury so he has to show more this camp than more of the same he showed last camp. Considering 7 drops last year putting him the top 15 in the league with half as many looks as most of the players above him he has to show much more improvement in that area than what he's shown so far. If his trend of the same type of performance as last camp and still having drop issues remain, unless Dobson is PuPed I'm not sure he makes the team over LaFell or over the rooks if they can show they can improve the KR game. That's not hating the player or saying he sucks that's saying he might not benefit the team or have as much talent as other options for a roster spot.

    Trust me, I'm an engineer!

     

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