Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATinPA. Show PATinPA's posts

    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    Stats aside NE's front rarely gets the push alot of other teams get, and the DB's are getting turned around and losing the ball in the air. I don't know if it is scheme or skill related, but its not working and come the playoffs its a killer. I am just holding out hope that the new defense and new players start to gel.
     
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    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    "Griddy" or "punch in the mouth" aside the thing that bothers me over the last few years is the total epic letdowns. The playoff loss to Indy up 24-3, the Superbowl in 07, the loss this past weekend, and countless other times they jump on a team and don't step on their throats. When NE loses.... and luckily not too often recently, it has been totally gutwrenching loses!!! and the loss to the Jets in the playoffs last year after dominating just a few weeks before.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    In Response to Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse':
    [QUOTE]"Griddy" or "punch in the mouth" aside the thing that bothers me over the last few years is the total epic letdowns. The playoff loss to Indy up 24-3, the Superbowl in 07, the loss this past weekend, and countless other times they jump on a team and don't step on their throats. When NE loses.... and luckily not too often recently, it has been totally gutwrenching loses!!! and the loss to the Jets in the playoffs last year after dominating just a few weeks before.
    Posted by PATinPA[/QUOTE]

    That's called 'having the killer instinct' and it's hard, if not impossible, to teach. You have it or you don't. It's why teams like Baltimore and San Diego can make a lot of noise but never put things away to win a ring.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    Its one thing to build up a good lead and let your defense get turnovers and it looks great.  I will admit, last year we did a lot of this, but to say we were Gritty last year, smashmouth??  No, thats false.  When was our last Gut Check Win?

    Im talking about a game that is in doubt and we overcome the odds or adversity to either come back and win or we score to win after the other team has tied it.  We are not a tough team that fights thru adversity and havent been for a while.  last time this happened and we won it was against Green Bay when Connolly and Arrington bailed us out.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    In Response to Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse':
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse' : Ridley was a 3rd round pick, not that high. Are you confusing him with Share Vereen?
    Posted by murghkhor[/QUOTE]

    A top half third round pick, while also picking another RB in the second is a high pick if you ask me for what they're trying to do.... then when you look at the whole situation why draft two RB's?  My point is they want to run more... point blank.....

    So yes they dedicated a lot into the back field... easy to see.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    In Response to Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse':
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse' : A top half third round pick, while also picking another RB in the second is a high pick if you ask me for what they're trying to do.... then when you look at the whole situation why draft two RB's?  My point is they want to run more... point blank..... So yes they dedicated a lot into the back field... easy to see.
    Posted by Getzo[/QUOTE]

    Bingo. Good point. We made a lot of strides last year when compared to the offense we were bitching about in 2009. I'm sure we'll make some more strides this year as well. Belichick can't dump O'Brien now and change an entire system. Maybe later with another QB but not with Brady. He has no choice but to let O'brien grow into his role, take his lumps, and learn from the mistakes going forward.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    If you need more clarification. 

    Director of Player Personnel Nick Caserio confirmed that RB Steven Ridley "made the most of his opportunity" in Week 3.

    The Patriots want Ridley to continue to show improvement and "develop a level of consistency" before he becomes a weekly fixture atop the depth chart. "Last week was basically the first game he played a decent amount," said OC Bill O'Brien. "He has a long way to go, just like any rookie as it relates to the overall scheme and what to do." We expect Ridley's role to increase at BenJarvus Green-Ellis' expense, but this is likely to remain a committee attack dictated by matchups and game flow.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    Wow, I cant believe those guys were allowed to speak
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    In Response to Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse':
    [QUOTE]Wow, I cant believe those guys were allowed to speak
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    You gotta think though, that many of us on here said the samethings....

    It's obvious.  Even though people like 1966 think we're dumb for saying it. 
    One day later.. look what is posted. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    In Response to Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse':
    [QUOTE]So, our SB dynasty bend but don't breaks were "finesse" then?
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    The superbowl dynasty teams were not true bend but don't break defenses. They blitzed on a fairly consistent basis and they played "bump and run" not "no bump and trail" or "turn around and run ten to fifteen yards downfield then pick someone up".
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jbolted. Show jbolted's posts

    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    The LBs for your Pats better stop Run DMc, thats the key to this game.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    One Patriots player is clearly a "finesse" player, and that would be Danny Woodhead.  Woodhead survives because, often as not, no one can see him coming to a particular hole.  Wes Welker is small, but everybody knows what play he's going to run and they just can't physically catch up to him, so that's not much of a finesse.  That's athleticism.  Welker's play was featured in ProFootballFocus.com, where he cut inside, then cut back outside, and this time the defender simply fell down, so Welker caught his pass and romped into the endzone.

    The quarterback on any particular team has skills and is supposed to stand in the pocket, but at 6'4" and 225 he's a bit stronger than average.

    Gronk is not a finesse player.  He's an extra tackle.  He catches passes in part because he pushes people around, and he's guarded by a linebacker because otherwise he'll easily push a safety out of the RB's way.  He's a strength player.  When Hernandez is on the field he's not a finesse wide receiver.  He just lines up there at times and then bodies cornerbacks out of the play.  Neither BJGE or Ridley is a finesse player.  BJGE is not elusive or fast; he just plows forward.

    Nate Solder was not drafted to be a finesse player.  He led the college ranks in knockdowns.  Logan Mankins is one of the least finessing players in the NFL.  He keeps hitting people until they get tired. 

    Patrick Chung was drafted to be rough, in the tradition of Brandon Meriweather.  All of the linebackers are heavy by NFL standards.  Brandon Spikes was drafted to run into the hole and hit the ball carrier. 

    Vince Wilfork is an enormous player who bull-rushes, and Albert Haynesworth just crushes his way through the shoulders of ordinary offensive linemen. 

    "Finesse" as an insult doesn't fit the Patriots.  They do play up-tempo offense, but that just wears out opposing defenses quicker. 

    Mr. McClain is free to insult the players all that he wants, until the game's final whistle.  He's also welcome to join the Sunday night bridge game, no hard feelings. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from startrightnow. Show startrightnow's posts

    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    McClain needs to worry about his own individual play , which hasn't been that good. His decision making and coverage skills show a lack of preparation ,  no surprise considering the coaching staff there.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from boomerst3. Show boomerst3's posts

    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    The Sox fired Tito today. Why? He lost his ability to coach the team. The players are not listening. I think the same may be happening with Belichick. You cant replace the whole team, but you can replace the coach. Last title 2004. 7 years ago. Thats ancient history, fans. This is a new era. Get a new coach. Not cause BB isn't great. Because it is not working with the team. He isn't making the adjustments. He was on the sidelines while the team lost a 21-0 lead against Buffalo. If you get the glory, you get the blame. Time for BB to go, and someone will get a great coach and maybe win a title. But not the Pats they suck on defense. Why didn't BB get more defensive players in the draft? He is displaying some human qualities
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    In Response to Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse':
    [QUOTE]The Sox fired Tito today. Why? He lost his ability to coach the team. The players are not listening. I think the same may be happening with Belichick. You cant replace the whole team, but you can replace the coach. Last title 2004. 7 years ago. Thats ancient history, fans. This is a new era. Get a new coach. Not cause BB isn't great. Because it is not working with the team. He isn't making the adjustments. He was on the sidelines while the team lost a 21-0 lead against Buffalo. If you get the glory, you get the blame. Time for BB to go, and someone will get a great coach and maybe win a title. But not the Pats they suck on defense. Why didn't BB get more defensive players in the draft? He is displaying some human qualities
    Posted by boomerst3[/QUOTE]

    What a statement!!! If only Francona could, "coach" better then Bucholtz wouldn't have gone down, Beckett wouldn't have sprained his ankle, and our starting pitching staff wouldn't have averaged a 9 era through the most important month of the season.

    Phenomenal post. You should be a sports anchor...what am I talking about, you probably already are.
     
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    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    Fire Belichick and hire who Urban Meyer ? Have Spurrier run the spread 60 % of the time so he can make the BCS. Fire a guy in September for going 2-1. Last time I checked coaches still get paid for winning. Belichick does need an OLB to do some work though and I don't much care wear what school he went to.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from startrightnow. Show startrightnow's posts

    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    In Response to Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse':
    [QUOTE]The Sox fired Tito today. Why? He lost his ability to coach the team. The players are not listening. I think the same may be happening with Belichick. You cant replace the whole team, but you can replace the coach. Last title 2004. 7 years ago. Thats ancient history, fans. This is a new era. Get a new coach. Not cause BB isn't great. Because it is not working with the team. He isn't making the adjustments. He was on the sidelines while the team lost a 21-0 lead against Buffalo. If you get the glory, you get the blame. Time for BB to go, and someone will get a great coach and maybe win a title. But not the Pats they suck on defense. Why didn't BB get more defensive players in the draft? He is displaying some human qualities
    Posted by boomerst3[/QUOTE]


    I'm not sure if your saying this for attention , either it's just a dumb statement. First of all , I still remember the first championship like it was yesterday , nevermind 7 years ago. Since he started coaching the Pats , this franchise has won more than any other in pro sports. Year in , year out , the Pats are contenders. Weve gone to 4 and won 3 superbowl's. What exactly are you bitc hing about? Seriously come back when your entire post actually makes sense.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    In Response to Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse':
    One Patriots player is clearly a "finesse" player, and that would be Danny Woodhead.  Woodhead survives because, often as not, no one can see him coming to a particular hole.  Wes Welker is small, but everybody knows what play he's going to run and they just can't physically catch up to him, so that's not much of a finesse.  That's athleticism.  Welker's play was featured in ProFootballFocus.com, where he cut inside, then cut back outside, and this time the defender simply fell down, so Welker caught his pass and romped into the endzone. The quarterback on any particular team has skills and is supposed to stand in the pocket, but at 6'4" and 225 he's a bit stronger than average. Gronk is not a finesse player.  He's an extra tackle.  He catches passes in part because he pushes people around, and he's guarded by a linebacker because otherwise he'll easily push a safety out of the RB's way.  He's a strength player.  When Hernandez is on the field he's not a finesse wide receiver.  He just lines up there at times and then bodies cornerbacks out of the play.  Neither BJGE or Ridley is a finesse player.  BJGE is not elusive or fast; he just plows forward. Nate Solder was not drafted to be a finesse player.  He led the college ranks in knockdowns.  Logan Mankins is one of the least finessing players in the NFL.  He keeps hitting people until they get tired.  Patrick Chung was drafted to be rough, in the tradition of Brandon Meriweather.  All of the linebackers are heavy by NFL standards.  Brandon Spikes was drafted to run into the hole and hit the ball carrier.  Vince Wilfork is an enormous player who bull-rushes, and Albert Haynesworth just crushes his way through the shoulders of ordinary offensive linemen.  "Finesse" as an insult doesn't fit the Patriots.  They do play up-tempo offense, but that just wears out opposing defenses quicker.  Mr. McClain is free to insult the players all that he wants, until the game's final whistle.  He's also welcome to join the Sunday night bridge game, no hard feelings. 
    Posted by Paul_K


    Paul, I think you did a great job of highlighting the players who make up the team, and I agree these guys are mostly tough by nature...Heck Wes Welker might be the smallest receiver in the league but not many would disagree that he is also one of the toughest...however it remains that we are still a finesse offense because of the plays that we run and not because of the roster.

    Would you agree with this notion? When push comes to shove we have trouble getting a tough yard and have for the past few seasons? I believe this is because we rely on our crutch too much(the shotgun quick strike) when we should in fact show diversity and play a smash mouth ground game more often. I think we stubbornly force our pass offense into a coverage that says not to. I personally think this is the reason we are recognized as a finesse offense by the players who make up the NFL.

    I sure wish that would change.
     
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    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    In Response to Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse':
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse' : Bingo. Good point. We made a lot of strides last year when compared to the offense we were bitching about in 2009. I'm sure we'll make some more strides this year as well. Belichick can't dump O'Brien now and change an entire system. Maybe later with another QB but not with Brady. He has no choice but to let O'brien grow into his role, take his lumps, and learn from the mistakes going forward.
    Posted by apdynasty23[/QUOTE]

    Yeppers, I was hoping that the new additions to our DL would have a trickle/domino effect with our secondary.  Meaning, better pressure/pass rush - the less reliance we have on secondary - possibly increasing the odds of turnovers or getting ball back into our offense's hands.
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from HaverhillBob. Show HaverhillBob's posts

    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    Every QB we have faced this year has a higher QBR against us than their season average.  How is that possible?  We made Henne into a top 10 QB. 
     
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    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    In Response to Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse':
    [QUOTE]It has.  5 INTs in 3 games and two dropped INTs.  Their sacks are up from last year, as are hurries, generally speaking. Mark Anderson is pretty good on 3rd and long situations as a Colvin type. They entered last week, 8th in the NFL.  I am not saying it's a relentless, great pass rush, but they are improved here in this area as opposed to Week 3 in 2010. Let's stick to the facts and try to realize our D just faced two of the best offenses in the AFC. If we had faced Jax like the Jets did, maybe we'd look better. lol
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    First off all, dropped INTs are called incomplete passes. The are the foul-ball HR of the defensive back.

    Okay, sticking to the facts. They had zero sacks against the Bills (when one in the 4th quarter could have changed the outcome of that game) and the gave up career high passing yards to Chad Henne. The Dolphins are probably worse than the Jaguars so those games are a wash in the standings/statistics.
     
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    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

         McClain has in essence called the Pats a bunch of "wussies". We'll see if he's right tomorrow. 
     
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    Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse'

    In Response to Re: Rolando McClain: Patriots are 'finesse':
    [QUOTE]It has.  5 INTs in 3 games and two dropped INTs.  Their sacks are up from last year, as are hurries, generally speaking. Mark Anderson is pretty good on 3rd and long situations as a Colvin type. They entered last week, 8th in the NFL.  I am not saying it's a relentless, great pass rush, but they are improved here in this area as opposed to Week 3 in 2010. Let's stick to the facts and try to realize our D just faced two of the best offenses in the AFC. If we had faced Jax like the Jets did, maybe we'd look better. lol
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    True. Our first 10 games will be fairly challenging...tougher than last year, anyway. We were number 1 with takeaway/giveaway ratio last year. #4 this year. Not too bad, still early. W/o brady's 4 INT...we'd be sharing #1.

    So, the intent was to improve our 3rd down defensive effeciency. What do the facts say about that.  In our game vs. Miami, we did fine on 3rd downs, not so well on 4 down.

    In San Diego, we sucked on 3rd down (7-11).

    Did okay w/ the Bills at (4-11)

    and we are giving up lots of passing yards (#32) in conjunction with pts given. (27th).  Right now we are justifying those poor stats with things like: we won 2 out of 3 games, Chargers and Bills are offensively good (thus far), garbage time.

    But I think we both agree that there's a lil work to be done on the coaching side (game management, play calling), and execution wise (better pass rush, improving at safety position, CBs improving play vs. last year).
     
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