Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsfan42. Show Patsfan42's posts

    Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/20/2010 3:50 PM EDT

    Good read...

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ross_tucker/08/20/mailbag/index.html?eref=sihp
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/20/2010 4:14 PM EDT

    I don't get his point.  The market dictates the price.  He was offered a top 3 money deal at that position and it didn't come before Evans and it wasn't near or above Evans's deal.

    Mankins is flat out wrong.

    As for Reed, he's a freaking Kicker. 

    The bottom line is, there is an unknown CBA deal on the table and teams are very conservative with them.  Mankins is a fool. That's what is troubling. He may have smashed his head too many times. He just threw out guaranteed millions and may miss a whole season as well.

    DUMB.   VERY DUMB. I'd be begging for that deal at this point.

    These are unique times to negotiating deals. Period.  There is no troubling trend.


     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/20/2010 4:35 PM EDT

    "I was asked to play '09 out, and that they would address the contract during the uncapped year. I'm a team player, I took them at their word, and I felt I played out an undervalued contract."

    He feels he should get paid more cauz he did his due, I don't think this gets resolved.

     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/20/2010 4:50 PM EDT

    He was offered a 5 year 35 million dollar deal.  It was 20% less than Evans and it came later.  Apparently, he also feels they should have ripped his rookie deal because he was a Pro Bowler.

    All irrational negotiating tactics and he lost.
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/20/2010 4:53 PM EDT

    sounds like Craft or Reese is a ly-er. The way Mankins tells it, I think Logan no speak with fork tongue.
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/20/2010 5:26 PM EDT

    I'm not a big fan of Ross Tucker, but he tells it pretty straight in his article.  There isn't much to dispute.  He was simply pointing out the problems that occur when teams make ambiguous statements that are not clearly defined to players, and the players/agents don't seek details and let their imaginations run wild.  I've had the exact same problem with employees in the past.  I've made statements like "I'm going to take care of you".  I'll never make such undefined statements anymore.  There were sometimes big differences between my idea of "taking care of you" and their idea.

    That's all Ross was saying.  When teams make statements that are so open for interpretation, nothing good can happen.  He places an equal amount of blame on the players and agents.  The agents should be smart enough to require more "unambiguous" information from the organization, and temper expectations if they don't receive it.
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/20/2010 5:26 PM EDT

    #1 - Two instances, two mind you, is a trend? 

    #2 - Maybe Mankins doesn't understand 'negotiation-speak' but his agent surely must.  If Mankins came away with the impression that he was going to get top-guard-in-the-league money based on those quotes attributed to the team then his agent's not doing his job.

    #3 - If Mankins sits out this year he's got more than a lost year problem.  He will not have earned enough playing time credit to become a UFA and New England will still own his playing rights.  Then what? Retire?

    #4 - Mankins is dumber than a bag of hammers.
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/20/2010 5:51 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend:
    He was offered a 5 year 35 million dollar deal.  It was 20% less than Evans and it came later.  Apparently, he also feels they should have ripped his rookie deal because he was a Pro Bowler. All irrational negotiating tactics and he lost.
    Posted by russgriswold

    depends on what the 20% is.  35 is only 60%+ of 56.  Don't know the guarantee.  Old stuff. 
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/20/2010 5:58 PM EDT

    I really don't care.  He talks about playing out his rookie contract like that is some great honor, instead of his obligation.  They didn't want to do an extension, that is their right.  They said they would "take care" of him, and he doesn't like it.  He makes it sound like it was his right NOT to play out the year last year.  It wasn't, because he was under contract.  I don't get how he is a hero for this.  And to me, he's already dead.  If he comes back, ok, but I'm already over it.  Learned my lesson on Ty Law and Lawyer Milloy.  Once a player starts talking this crap, cut him loose and get what you can.
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/20/2010 6:15 PM EDT

    If you have an agent that doesn't understand the concept of we'll take care of you and plans an attack against the establishment that paid him for a multi year contract , it's about time the player gets rid of him before he ruins his career.
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/20/2010 6:19 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend:
    Mankins is flat out wrong. Posted by russgriswold


    i agree. package him and maroney for a draft pick what the heck.
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/20/2010 6:32 PM EDT

    I hate this kind of verbal spillage.  "...points to a trend.", doesn't mean there is a trend but one could happen!  Let the imagination run wild. 

    I would have to agree with carawaydj.  You have to be careful of what you say and keep negotiations between the front office and the agent professional.  A lot of this might have been avoided if the sentence, "We'll take care of you." wasn't used.  The other thing is we as fans don't know how the contract was structured and the length of the contract might have had something to do with it.

    However this shakes out the Pats have learned a lesson from this one.
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/20/2010 7:16 PM EDT

    Bottom line is he's a guard.  They'll find someone else to play his position, they'll trade him for the best pick they can get, and they'll move on.  Mankins will hate the Patriots forever because they made him play out his rookie deal and "insulted" him with a fair deal.  

    I don't begrudge players trying to get all they can during their short career.  But the whining about millions of dollars doesn't resonate with the average fan.  When will the players understand that the Pats will cut bait with even their very best players and do it dispassionately?  Samuel, McGinest, Vrabel, Seymour?  Great Patriots, most went elsewhere when deemed expendable or not worth their salary demands.  Mankins is next.    
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/20/2010 7:21 PM EDT

    He's dead to me...let's move on.
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/20/2010 10:55 PM EDT

    didnt ross tucker play on the patriots briefly? maybe he has a bone to pick. as for mankins, just another sad example of a player being taken advantage of by his agent. that guy is killing his credibility and is risking not playing for two years in a row (if there is a lockout god forbid). somebody needs to talk some sense to that guy.
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/21/2010 10:58 AM EDT

    Light 3 super bowl rings, Neal 3 super bowl rings, Koppen 2 super bowl rings, Mankins ZERO SUPER BOWL RINGS
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/21/2010 12:48 PM EDT

    The handful of times I've read quotes from Mankins agent, Frank Bauer, the guy comes off sounding almost irrational. Way too many overly emotional comments; seemingly ready-to-fly-off-the-handle-at-any-moment type type of stuff. It's fun to read and definitely different than the usual Agent Speak...'cept he comes across as if he doesn't know which end is up. His most recent comments about the holdout, he damn-near broke into a "duty and honor" speech for Bob and Jonathan Kraft. From what I understand, he didn't even call back the Patriots with a response/counter-offer to their 5 yr./$35M proposal. And now he's flat-out butchered this situation. Bauer was hoping for Jahri Evans money; instead, with a lockout looming, he gets Mankins a lost season, and $0.00 out what should've been (at worst) $3.5M.
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/21/2010 2:06 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend:
    He was offered a 5 year 35 million dollar deal.  It was 20% less than Evans and it came later.  Apparently, he also feels they should have ripped his rookie deal because he was a Pro Bowler. All irrational negotiating tactics and he lost.
    Posted by russgriswold
    Are you sure about that Russ. Mankins Agent said 5 years was never on the Table, more like 6 years
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/21/2010 3:10 PM EDT

    5 mill a year for a guard. Tom Brady's base salary is 5 million dollars. 

    Let's see, if we add Tom's base salary with Logan's offered contract we'll get 10 million bucks as a base. Let's add Ty Warren's expiring 6 million dollars to that contract and we'll get 16 mill. 

    How's a 5 year 80 million dollar deal sound to you, Tom? 

    I wonder if we could ship Mankins off for a DE? 
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/21/2010 5:25 PM EDT

    Lets get a 7th round pick 4 him and get this bum off our back... thats all he's worth anyways.
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/21/2010 6:58 PM EDT

    Are you sure about that Russ. Mankins Agent said 5 years was never on the Table, more like 6 years
    Posted by patriots44

    It was 5 years added on to his tender. Here's the link.
    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2010/08/agent_patriots_2.html
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/21/2010 11:30 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend:
    In Response to Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend : depends on what the 20% is.  35 is only 60%+ of 56.  Don't know the guarantee.  Old stuff. 
    Posted by underdoggggg


    Evans' deal was for 7 years, or $8.1 million/year. If Mankins' offer truly was 5 years/$35 million, then Evans' deal was ~16% better on an annual basis.
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/22/2010 6:52 AM EDT

    Long contracts are beneficial to management but generally don't help players since management can cut the player any time to get out of the contract, but the player can't break the contract (without holding out for no pay).  The Pats were notorious for trying to sign rookies (who don't have lots of options to negotiate with other teams) to five and six year deals.  Generally, this allowed the Pats to get the services of a lot of good players in years five and six of their contracts at below-market prices.  But it caused resentment and contract problems when it came to renegotiating because the players felt they were owed something by the Pats for having played "cheap" for a year or two.  

    I think a lot of these contract problems will disappear if rookie contracts are limited to four years (which I think they are now).


     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/22/2010 7:39 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend:
    [QUOTE]sounds like Craft or Reese is a ly-er. The way Mankins tells it, I think Logan no speak with fork tongue.
    Posted by jbolted[/QUOTE

    Enjoy the pathetic Chargers epic fail season again as they, again, fail to live up to expectations.  And you spelled "Kraft" wrong.
     

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    Re: Ross Tucker (Inside the NFL): Logan Mankins squabble with Pats points to troubling trend

    posted at 8/22/2010 8:15 AM EDT

    Logan needs to GROW UP !
    Logan made his bed and now he can sleep in it.
    I think the Patriots will trade Mr. Mankins if
    they can receive a first round draft choice.

    You can be assured that Logan Mankins will NOT
    receive a better proposal than what the Patriots
    offered him.  I think Logan is stuck on this pride
    thing that is going to end up costing him MILLIONS!

    I have to admit that I am routing for that to happen.