Roth

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    Re: Roth

    In Response to Re: Roth:
    [QUOTE]Finally....someone prepared to talk about Roth! Hey, thanks for getting back to football!
    Posted by PMacPatFan[/QUOTE]

    how can we get back to football when your a new poster and you have Patfan in your name????  Who are you really!!!!!  Phat Rex, McCheater, Rusty!!!! (no wait Rusty doesn't talk football).  MVP is that you!!!
     
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    Re: Roth

    In Response to Re: Roth:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Roth : I pity you, Phat Rex.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    HAHA, a fair response from someone that just got bitchslapped with common sense and logic.  Rock on MR. T.
     
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    Re: Roth

    In Response to Re: Roth:
    [QUOTE]Let us know when McCheaters/Phat Rex and yourself post at the same time,a dn then mayb you'll have a leg to stand on.  UNtil then, maybe explain why you lied when you said your Patsman 2 handle went dormant. lmao Patsman and Patsman2 were obviously banned names because you were caught with those as Phat Rex during the season. No one is buying it. Your atttitude, approach and even the typing style is the same. Exposed.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    Patsman and patsman2 were banned names because you were caught with those during the season?  HUH???  Sorry that makes no sense as why they would be banned.  Never been banned like you Rusty sorry. 

    The more you post the less sense you make. I am done with you for the day.  You are dismissed.
     
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    Re: Roth

    In Response to Re: Roth:
    [QUOTE]UD6, I didnt say his didnt go dormant, I said mine didnt.  Also, did I say those 2 were the same person?  I think not, so read what I said before jumping into a reply.
    Posted by gln826[/QUOTE]

    I know what you said.  Logic simply suggests that if your account didn't go dormant, then his shouldn't either, which is why I said what said.  Further, I said the mods sometimes don't operate logically and they could have deleted the account based on their own whims. 

    I thought I was fairly clear in my comment.
     
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    Re: Roth

    In Response to Re: Roth:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Roth : I didn't give up, merely went to go do something with the kiddos.  Then again, you do have a habit of saying and seeing things that aren't true. Your responses are mostly opportunities to get in a dig with Rusty or Tex or Brady or BB and the Pats as a whole. (trolling) Thanks for bring attention your thread response.  Having 2100+ posts on another teams forum in less than a year is quite odd and only solidifies my impression of you. In responses to your deflected statements. I do not believe Dung knew nothing about taping teams especially since it's legal.  Therefore I think he is a liar. I also do not believe Dung didn't know about or condone any thing his expert signal stealer was doing, to include taping.   He was the head coach and is responsible for what is happening outside of the lines too.  Why have a safe cracker on the payrol if you never plan on cracking safes. He knew exactly what was going on, if not, he's the only HC in the World that didn't. As far as Rusty goes, LOL. He does not need my help.  His does a fine job of slapping you around all by his lonesome. And if you didn't appreciate me calling you out for being a troll, well all I can say is, don't act like one.  I'm sure I'm not the first or last to do so. I call it as I see it!
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    Rusty, Tex, and BB, yes I give them sh*t.  Not really Brady, because I happen to think he is a great QB-top 2 in the league with very little, if anything, separating the two.  I may bust on a stetson ad or an Uggs ad, but that's all in fun.  No different than those who make fun of Manning's ads or people who might call Dungy, Dung. 

    As for the pats, I only bust on them as it relates to Belichick.  Kraft has demonstrated he is a great owner who knows when to step in and when to step aside.  

    Now back to our old discussion.  As it regards Dungy we are not simply talking about taping (all teams tape the game).  We are talking about teams specifically using a cameraman on the field to tape opposing coaches signals.  Are you saying Dungy was lying when he said he knew nothing about it? 

    As it regards Dungy and Mudd - First, we know that certain methods of stealing signals are legal.  The method employed by the pats was not.  The Pats had a chance to refrain from their method after a likely warning (due to being caught by the pack) and a memo.  They chose not to heed the warnings, and were dealt with.  Being good at deciphering signals vs. authorizing illicit methods for obtaining them are two monumentally different things.  As I said before, if Weis, Crennel, McDaniel, and Mangini were not punished for being assistants during the illicit taping period, then why would you have a problem with Mudd? 

    further, as Dungy said, he knew nothing about the taping.  If he didn't know about it, then how would he know about Mudd having done it many many years before he was with the colts.  And if they were not employing the illicit Patriots methods themselves, then why would Dungy have any problem having Mudd on his staff.  Mudd is known as one of the best oline coaches in all of football.  That's the reason for having him on staff. 

    Finally, as to your impression of me, why should I care?  You may call me whatever you like.  Its a free world.  I just want to make sure you don't somehow regard yourself as better than me when you do things like call Dungy, Dung.  That's not really appropriate behavior for one attempting to claim some kind of high ground.  Know what I mean? 
     
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    Re: Roth

    is it illegal to stand in the endzone and tape the opposing teams signals

    dung is a homophobe- he wouldnt care much for sanchez
     
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    Re: Roth

    In Response to Re: Roth:
    [QUOTE]It has more to do with money than being "impressed".  They like Roth according to the reports. Apparently NE had a price he was ok with and then he shopped it around and now wants the Lawson type money. The more time goes by, the more his price will have to come down. Negotiating 101. If he does love the 3-4, he won't be going to Arizona, Seattle or New Orleans. Or Denver, for that matter. I think BB knows he has the leverage on price here. I do find it interesting he wants a 1 year deal, clearly telling teams he'll use them for a shift in the market in the 2010 FA period.  If I am Rosenhaus, I don't advertise it that way. Roth is clearly talented and would be a beast in the 3-4 alignment here, now that Ellis and Haynesworth have signed on. BB just paid Ellis 4 mil for his last season, essentially to play some spot roles in different alignments, so Roth would be in a similar role at OLB.  But, now he's not a 4-3 DE option here with Andre Carter in the mix. 3 mil is a tad too high. NE is obviously under 3 mil per if that offer is even still there. This D would be loaded beyond belief if he came on board, though. It's already arguably the best and deepest Front 7 in the AFC if not the NFL. This add would make it that much better and more versatile. Just offer 2 mil for 2011 and then  just sell him on the idea that people like Ellis and Carter aren't going to be around past 2012. Then, work in an higher salary in the next 2 years of a deal. Something like that.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    the REAL beauty of having Roth on the team is that you DON'T NEED TO CHANGE PERSONNEL to go from 4-3 to 3-4

    the 3: Ellis, Wilfork, Warren
    the 4: Roth, Mayo, Spikes/Guyton/Cunningham

    and Roth AND Cunningham can both shift to DE.  Guyton would have to learn 3-4 OLB or Cunningham would have to learn 4-3 OLB for this to work, but I do remember Guyton getting reps at OLB against Seattle a few years ago.
     
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    Re: Roth

    In Response to Re: Roth:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Roth : Rusty, Tex, and BB, yes I give them sh*t.  Not really Brady, because I happen to think he is a great QB-top 2 in the league with very little, if anything, separating the two.  I may bust on a stetson ad or an Uggs ad, but that's all in fun.  No different than those who make fun of Manning's ads or people who might call Dungy, Dung.  As for the pats, I only bust on them as it relates to Belichick.  Kraft has demonstrated he is a great owner who knows when to step in and when to step aside.   Now back to our old discussion.  As it regards Dungy we are not simply talking about taping (all teams tape the game).  We are talking about teams specifically using a cameraman on the field to tape opposing coaches signals.  Are you saying Dungy was lying when he said he knew nothing about it?  As it regards Dungy and Mudd - First, we know that certain methods of stealing signals are legal.  The method employed by the pats was not.  The Pats had a chance to refrain from their method after a likely warning (due to being caught by the pack) and a memo.  They chose not to heed the warnings, and were dealt with.  Being good at deciphering signals vs. authorizing illicit methods for obtaining them are two monumentally different things.  As I said before, if Weis, Crennel, McDaniel, and Mangini were not punished for being assistants during the illicit taping period, then why would you have a problem with Mudd?  further, as Dungy said, he knew nothing about the taping.  If he didn't know about it, then how would he know about Mudd having done it many many years before he was with the colts.  And if they were not employing the illicit Patriots methods themselves, then why would Dungy have any problem having Mudd on his staff.  Mudd is known as one of the best oline coaches in all of football.  That's the reason for having him on staff.  Finally, as to your impression of me, why should I care?  You may call me whatever you like.  Its a free world.  I just want to make sure you don't somehow regard yourself as better than me when you do things like call Dungy, Dung.  That's not really appropriate behavior for one attempting to claim some kind of high ground.  Know what I mean? 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    Every coach in the league knew about it.  Don't paint Dungy as being so innocent and naive

    Heck, HERM EDWARDS WAVED TO THE CAMERAMAN.  When asked about SpyGate, he just said it required a little extra preparation because you knew the Pats were simply better at stealing signs than most other teams.  Brad Childress even backed this up before the game against the Vikings last year.

    Del Rio, Marty Morhenwig, and Jack Del Rio have all corroborated stories of bad communications in Gillette Stadium.

    Just like the Steelers and Patriots have both corroborated stories on how the Colts pipe in crowd noise (ONE NEEDS ONLY LOOK IN THE STANDS TO SEE ALL THE COLTS FANS NOT CHEERING OUT LOUD OR EVEN OPENING THEIR MOUTHS WHEN THEIR STADIUM GETS LOUD - I'm endlessly amused when they show the stands of apathetic Colts "fans" on TV on big third downs not cheering but somehow producing epic noise)

    Get off your high horse.  Belichick only broke rules because he couldn't change them like Polian did
     
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    Re: Roth

    Anyone know with all the wheeling and dealing where the Pats stand as far as Cap space goes?  Do they have any room to even sign Roth at this point.  Who goes to make room if they dont?
     
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    Re: Roth

    They all knew Nick?  How do you know this? 

    And the noise piping thing - don't you think its silly to accuse the colts of something that the pats business partner, CBS, has already said was their fault and not the result of noise being piped in? 

    Finally, you've brought this up before about fans not cheering.  I'll be happy to challenge you on that.  You see even if there were a few fans that you saw, not cheering, they were likely in the wine and cheese box seats.  While most, including the gentrified, cheer, some may not.  But a few are not going to affect the sound level and beyond that its likely that the most noise was created in the upper deck nearest to the domes roof allowing that sound to bounce off the roof down onto the field.  

    Man that place was loud.  Was in the upper deck corner for the Steelers 05 playoff game and was actually concerned that my eardrums were going to burst it was so loud.  No amount of alcohol could stop the headache I got from the noise.  
     
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    Re: Roth

    In Response to Re: Roth:
    [QUOTE]They all knew Nick?  How do you know this?  And the noise piping thing - don't you think its silly to accuse the colts of something that the pats business partner, CBS, has already said was their fault and not the result of noise being piped in?  Finally, you've brought this up before about fans not cheering.  I'll be happy to challenge you on that.  You see even if there were a few fans that you saw, not cheering, they were likely in the wine and cheese box seats.  While most, including the gentrified, cheer, some may not.  But a few are not going to affect the sound level and beyond that its likely that the most noise was created in the upper deck nearest to the domes roof allowing that sound to bounce off the roof down onto the field.   Man that place was loud.  Was in the upper deck corner for the Steelers 05 playoff game and was actually concerned that my eardrums were going to burst it was so loud.  No amount of alcohol could stop the headache I got from the noise.  
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    Multiple coaches have said they were well aware of systems to steal signals, chief among these being Jimmy Johnson, three time Super Bowl winner, who said he had a nice conversation on how to do it with former Chiefs front office men back in the day.  Bill Cowher, the guy whose teams got beat by the Patriots twice in AFC Championship Games during the alleged "cheating" era, has come out in defense of the Patriots saying that the game is played on the field, a clear concession that the Patriots' taping of signals offered little discernable advantage over writing them down.

    You're telling me that Polian and Dungy were so poorly informed?  Please - THAT'S naive, especially when less successful coaches like Del Rio, Morhenwiig, and Martz were privvy to the strange goings on in Foxborough

    And I'll gladly accept the attention on the Pats also possibly piping crowd noise BECAUSE I'M NOT HOLIER THAN THOU LIKE YOU ARE.
     
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    Re: Roth

    its an established fact. every nfl fan agrees the colts cheated piping in noise.
    everybody knows that the colts try to manipulate the rules through the competition committee to give their cheating team an unfair advantage

    In Response to Re: Roth:
    [QUOTE]They all knew Nick?  How do you know this?  And the noise piping thing - don't you think its silly to accuse the colts of something that the pats business partner, CBS, has already said was their fault and not the result of noise being piped in?  Finally, you've brought this up before about fans not cheering.  I'll be happy to challenge you on that.  You see even if there were a few fans that you saw, not cheering, they were likely in the wine and cheese box seats.  While most, including the gentrified, cheer, some may not.  But a few are not going to affect the sound level and beyond that its likely that the most noise was created in the upper deck nearest to the domes roof allowing that sound to bounce off the roof down onto the field.   Man that place was loud.  Was in the upper deck corner for the Steelers 05 playoff game and was actually concerned that my eardrums were going to burst it was so loud.  No amount of alcohol could stop the headache I got from the noise.  
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Roth

    Here's a guy who's actually grounded enough to be honest:
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/09/colts-gonzalez-nfl-players-use-hgh-could-be-10-could-be-100-or-more/

    Other people juicing?  Loose enforcement of rules?  Scapegoats?! :-O

    As if Shawne Merriman and Brian Cushing was the only one juicing... please.
     
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    Re: Roth

    You are right Dogg.  I concede.
    Dung knew nothing about the competition taping signals. (despite it being his job to know about his competitors)
    He also knew nothing about his coordinators reputation (despite his reputation for stealing signals)
    He also knew nothing about Mudd doing anything illegal (despite it being his job to manage hid crew.)
    My only question to you is what the fvck did he know?
    Oh, yeah, he knew BB was a bad boy after the fact.  Pure genius!
    Perhaps that explains why he is no longer a NFL coach and prefers to spend his time talking about other teams. (that he apparently knows nothing about).
    Now, I'm going to take the advise of Tex and spend some time with my kids while I am on vacation and they are going back to school soon. Is that ok?
     
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    Re: Roth

    clay matthews, james harrison are clearly both juicers
     
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    Re: Roth

    In Response to Re: Roth:
    [QUOTE]They all knew Nick?  How do you know this?  And the noise piping thing - don't you think its silly to accuse the colts of something that the pats business partner, CBS, has already said was their fault and not the result of noise being piped in?  Finally, you've brought this up before about fans not cheering.  I'll be happy to challenge you on that.  You see even if there were a few fans that you saw, not cheering, they were likely in the wine and cheese box seats.  While most, including the gentrified, cheer, some may not.  But a few are not going to affect the sound level and beyond that its likely that the most noise was created in the upper deck nearest to the domes roof allowing that sound to bounce off the roof down onto the field.   Man that place was loud.  Was in the upper deck corner for the Steelers 05 playoff game and was actually concerned that my eardrums were going to burst it was so loud.  No amount of alcohol could stop the headache I got from the noise.  
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure if you've been to a game in the dome but I have. I sat on the very top and the sound coming from behind me was deafening yet other then a half dozen rows of people sitting down eating food there was only speakers behind me. You could also hear as if on track that the cheering all had the same sound as if a play button was hit to start a track over and over again everytime it got loud. Live cheering doesn't start the same way every time regardless of position of ball. The game I went to I saw far more people sitting down and eating to create that much noise.

    Isn't it funny though that CBS took blame yet it seems they only pump noise in for the Colts games since I don't hear nearly the same amount of noise for any other game they broadcast?

    Trust me the Colts pumped in noise and were accused of pumping in noise well before the CBS incident yet they haven't had an issue or accusation after. Could that be because the decibel level has dropped significantly since the league put microphones in near the speakers to check the accusations?
     
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    Re: Roth

    In Response to Re: Roth:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Roth : Multiple coaches have said they were well aware of systems to steal signals, chief among these being Jimmy Johnson, three time Super Bowl winner, who said he had a nice conversation on how to do it with former Chiefs front office men back in the day.  Bill Cowher, the guy whose teams got beat by the Patriots twice in AFC Championship Games during the alleged "cheating" era, has come out in defense of the Patriots saying that the game is played on the field, a clear concession that the Patriots' taping of signals offered little discernable advantage over writing them down. You're telling me that Polian and Dungy were so poorly informed?  Please - THAT'S naive, especially when less successful coaches like Del Rio, Morhenwiig, and Martz were privvy to the strange goings on in Foxborough And I'll gladly accept the attention on the Pats also possibly piping crowd noise BECAUSE I'M NOT HOLIER THAN THOU LIKE YOU ARE.
    Posted by Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188[/QUOTE]

    Nick - we've already been through this.  We know that other coaches have said they knew about it or tried it, but I don't recall any of them being the coach of the colts from 01-08, do you?  We also know JJ fingered a dead man for info on the technique.  Why not go with what Dungy said, or do you also think he is a liar, and if so why?  Because of this?  

    Finally why I am "holier than thou" when you simply don't have sh*t on my team?  I'd have a little respect for the whine if, for instance, you had no money and were stealing to put food on the family table and I said, don't steal.  But the pats shenanigans have nothing to do with that kind of desparation.  Paranoia, yes.  Desperation, no. 

    Calling someone holier than thou is simply a feeble attempt to make yourself feel better.  
     
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    Re: Roth

    In Response to Re: Roth:
    [QUOTE]You are right Dogg.  I concede. Dung knew nothing about the competition taping signals. (despite it being his job to know about his competitors) call it a flaw of Dungy's if it makes you feel better.

    He also knew nothing about his coordinators reputation (despite his reputation for stealing signals) Mudd wasn't the colts coordinator.  He was their oline coach, but that's beside the point.  Mudd's reputation as a line coach is impeccable.  According to Johnson his acumen for stealing signals is quite good too, but I doubt you get a job on that skill set alone or even at all.

    He also knew nothing about Mudd doing anything illegal (despite it being his job to manage hid crew.) Did Mudd do something illegal?  I thought Johnson, from a dead guy, said Mudd was the best at stealing signals.  I thought we established that stealing signals wasn't illegal.  I thought we established that the methods used by the pats to do so was.  Assuming, Mudd's bosses used the same methods and Mudd simply did as he was told to keep his job, I thought we established that the likes of Crennel, Weis, McDaniel, Mangini, etc. were held blameless for the pats acts while assistants.  If so, then why indict Mudd, who's only been accused with the most circumstantial of evidence?  sssttttrreeetttcchhh.   

    My only question to you is what the fvck did he know?
    Its a valid question, and one you'd have to ask him, although he said he knew nothing. 
    Oh, yeah, he knew BB was a bad boy after the fact.  Pure genius!
    Not really he said that.  I took it as more he was disappointed given all the success the pats had had previously and how they would be questioned going forward. 

    Perhaps that explains why he is no longer a NFL coach and prefers to spend his time talking about other teams. (that he apparently knows nothing about).
    Actually, I think he walked away on his own terms.  He hoped to be around his family a little more and work with prisoners, etc. 

    Now, I'm going to take the advise of Tex and spend some time with my kids while I am on vacation and they are going back to school soon. Is that ok?
    Absolutely.  Kids are much better than wasting time with me.  Have a great vacation.  Hope you are enjoying.  Cape Cod is one of my favorite places. 

    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Roth

    with mannings broken neck, the colts are going to have pump more noise in than ever if they want to win
     
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    Re: Roth

    There is no question they pumped in noise. The comments came from media people, with no real ties to the Pats.  Had been like that for years. We al laughed when other teams started publicly claiming it as well. That's why it was funny. 
    OK - now is this opinion, because it sounds like you are stating it as fact, and I think its important for you to be able to clarify. 

    Ed Werder from ESPN reported it himself on the heels of his coverage of the Steelers and Colts game there back in 2005.
    He reported what?  Claims? or facts? 

    Whether or not the report of the guy who talked about the ins and outs how Polian/Dungy orchestrated it to be done (after the infamous 2007 game where NE was mysteriously flagged for a franchise record 147 yards of penalties during their run at a perfect season) is completely accurate or not, you have to wonder why that information was offered up or why it was so specific of how it was done.
    You mean the outsoucred security guard with intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the colts covert operations?  That guy?  

    The fact is, in every dome, the noise has a natural fluctuation.

    Meanwhile in Indy, it goes from quiet or relatively quiet to a very sharp inflection in very loud noise, which is almost impossible to do unless everyone is doing it at the exact same time.
    You may say that if you are watching on TV and depending on where the mics are located. 

    I believe this is what you are referring to, PatsEng.

    If true with how they had recorded noise and then pressed a button to trigger it to come out the PAs on the ceiling, where it was noticed by media members, we'll probably never know now.

    They have a new stadium and it's unlikely they'd risk anything like that now.
    Has nothing to do with risk at all.  In fact, if the colts were to do something like that, now would be the time.  Lucas Oil Stadium is significantly larger without a substantial increase in seating.  The RCA dome had seats built very close to the field including how far out the upper deck went.  Additionally, the dome itself was "low" allowing sound to bounce and get down to the field quickly.  The current stadium is huge comparatively. 
     
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    Re: Roth

    In Response to Re: Roth:
    [QUOTE]with mannings broken neck, the colts are going to have pump more noise in than ever if they want to win
    Posted by patthepatriot666[/QUOTE]

    ahahahahhaa... awesome.
     

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