Roughing the quaterback

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mjdkid100. Show mjdkid100's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    Yapple I remember that, its such a fine line to decide what to do.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2009. Show Evil2009's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    I guess we should feel lucky after that bogus TD reversal in the Raiders/Chargers game. They could have done the same thing to Watson.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pochen23. Show pochen23's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    It is still pretty iffy on the second call. I know alot of you argue that the whistle blew before he throw the QB down, but honestly, do you think the players can hear the whistle? There are often times you see players keep running after the whistle blew, it is not that they hussle, but it is that they can't hear it. You are watching the game on the TV set, which the whisle is directly hooked to the mic. But in reality, it is very noisy on the field, especially when the crowds cheer for the would be sack on that play.

    For those who think the players can hear whistle in that situation, there is a fact. You see those superbowl halftime show, where fans gather on the field (they are not real ticket holders, they are just there for the halftime, they don't get to watch the game other than showing up in the half). It was said to be the worst experience as they don't allow you to watch the game at all, and all the ppl were just standing by the first half to go out there during the half time. And the worst thing is, when you are out there, you can't hear a thing coming out of the singer's mouth. Yes, you can't hear anything down there, it's how loud it is down there. After the show, the fans were rushed off the field and sent home afterwards.

    True story. So don't think the players can hear the whistle, they can't in situation like that. I am pretty sure if AD could hear it he would have let go. It is loud, and when you are so focus you can't hear anything.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BrooklineRob. Show BrooklineRob's posts

    Re: Roughing the quarterback

    Questionable calls on Wilfork and Thomas.  No malice or intent on either of them.  But there were questionable calls all night that hurt both teams. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Roughing the quarterback

    In Response to Re: Roughing the quarterback:
    Questionable calls on Wilfork and Thomas.  No malice or intent on either of them.  But there were questionable calls all night that hurt both teams. 
    Posted by BrooklineRob


    I'll tell you what was questionable: Those clown costumes the officials were wearing.

    Yikes!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BrooklineRob. Show BrooklineRob's posts

    Re: Roughing the quarterback

    In Response to Re: Roughing the quarterback:
    In Response to Re: Roughing the quarterback : I'll tell you what was questionable: Those clown costumes the officials were wearing. Yikes!
    Posted by prairiemike


    The Refs looked like they were going to school at Hogwarts.  Not exactly a manly uniform. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Stupideeediot. Show Stupideeediot's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    In Response to Re: Roughing the quaterback:
    In Response to Re: Roughing the quaterback : Both of those were in the rule book prior to Brady joining the league. You are not allowed to hit the quarterback at or below the knees. At what point did Wilfork hit Edwards below the knees?? With his hands as he wrapped him up?? I don't want these ticky tack calls determining the outcome of games.
    Posted by bsun70


    Wilfork didn't hit the quarterback below the knees and therefore his hit had absolutely nothign to do with BRady. 

    Wilfork hit a quarterback in the front who wasl ooking right at him and grabbed him around the waste then slid down as the QB moved back.

    With BRady he was blindsided by a Chiefs player who was on the ground and lunged directly at Brady's knee.

    If people can't see the many differences there I feel sorry for them.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Stupideeediot. Show Stupideeediot's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    In Response to Re: Roughing the quaterback:
    In Response to Re: Roughing the quaterback : Wilfork didn't hit the quarterback below the knees and therefore his hit had absolutely nothign to do with BRady.  Wilfork hit a quarterback in the front who wasl ooking right at him and grabbed him around the waste then slid down as the QB moved back. With BRady he was blindsided by a Chiefs player who was on the ground and lunged directly at Brady's knee. If people can't see the many differences there I feel sorry for them.
    Posted by Stupideeediot


    My main issue with the Thomas penalty is actually that they called it 'roughing the passer' saying he piledrove the QB.  If anything at all it might be  called a late hit which is what most poeple on here assumed the call was.  But again to be clear they did NOT call Thomas for hitting the QB late, they called him jsut for hitting the QB.

    If they at least called it 'unnecessary roughness late hit' then it might make sense. But the refs completely disgraced football by citing him specifically for a QB related penalty.  By stating that , they admit if it was a HB or WR he threw down then they wouldn't have made the call. Does that make sense ?

    Further there was no piledrive or throw down.  The QB went down on his back at the same time as Thomas.What they tried to do was make another statement (as if we needed it) that tackling QB's will nto be tolerated in the league.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from RobertBro. Show RobertBro's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    I'd like an explanation of what exactly the call was on each of these (e.g. low hit, late hit, etc.) so we can see if they make any sense.  It's pretty clear that Wilfork's hit was neither low nor late.  On Adalius' sack, the whistle first blew (a single tweet) as he was starting to turn and bring Edwards down.  It wasn't a loud, multiple tweet and there was no reason for the play to be blown dead at that moment.  Edwards was not in the process of throwing the ball, he was a ball carrier and he was not just going to the ground, he was trying to break a tackle.  And Adalius was already in the process of tackling him in a way that minimized any risk of injury.  I'd really like to hear the reasoning behind both the early whistle and the roughing call. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    They couldn't call it a late hit.  Thomas was the one who sacked the QB.  He had him in the grasp.  The whistles blew and then he pile drove the qb.  That doesn't get called if the whistles had not blown. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    In Response to Re: Roughing the quaterback:
    I guess we should feel lucky after that bogus TD reversal in the Raiders/Chargers game. They could have done the same thing to Watson.
    Posted by Evil2009


    Those plays were eerily similar.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    In Response to Roughing the quaterback:
    Can we discuss the 2 ridiculous calls in tonights game? Is this how the game is going to be called for the rest of the year? I'm all for protecting the QB, but that was aweful.
    Posted by bsun70


         The call against Vince Wilfolk was absurd. But, I could understand the call on Thomas. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    In Response to Re: Roughing the quaterback:
    I thought I heard the whistle blow before AD threw him to the ground.  It was a careless mistake for a vet.  Did AD get a second roughing call shortly later, when the Bills QB guy scrambled to his right and threw an incomplete pass out of bounds?  Cause right after that I looked up and it was 1st down somehow.
    Posted by themightypatriotz


    I've got to find that replay. I didn't hear a whistle at all. I could be wrong, but that is what really draws my ire. If Thomas doesn't put a spin on, like he did against Favre last season, and Edwards wiggles away people go crazy.

    If there was a whistle then it was a bit much, but even remembering it, there really wasn't time for a whistle. It was a very quick play.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ShiningWizard. Show ShiningWizard's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    It was a bogus call.  If the officials don't blow the whistle and Edwards won't go down you have to do whatever is necessary to bring him down.  It's not like A. Thomas speared him, hit his helmet or took out his legs on the play.  Complete BS.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from existentialparquet. Show existentialparquet's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    In Response to Re: Roughing the quaterback:
    I didn't hear the whistle on the AT sack, so I thought it was a good play the entire time. I'l ltake your words on it though that the whistle had blown. The Pats need to be smarter than that--especially with a questionable D product right now.
    Posted by BernieCarbo75

    The Pats need to be smarter than you?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yapple. Show Yapple's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    Ben Dreith would be proud.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubbakilla. Show bubbakilla's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    they should put mini skirts on these guys. that way they can sue for harassment when "molested" by a wilfork or thomas in the future. bet the ACLU and EEOC would jump at this! 

    seriously, pats have enough rules in their image... the tuck rule, camgate, wilfork rule (how contracts get structured, no more 6 year rook deal), (future) seymour rule (cant trade guys so close to the season startg, will b a deadline)... last nite, the brady rule almost came bak to haunt us! wilfour's hit was on the border (of the waist) at worse but he clearly wrapped his hands around the qb, didnt drive or spear him... next time, he should jump to bat the bat the ball down? or keep crawling to the qb? on the other hand, got no beef with penalty on AD though. he should have just stood there in a fierce clinch. edwards wasnt trying to free himself. to refs' credit on that last AD hit which was right on the borderline, where he shoved edwards to ground as he was releasg the ball, they kept the flag in their pockets.  
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from sonieboy. Show sonieboy's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    In Response to Re: Roughing the quaterback:
    In Response to Re: Roughing the quaterback : The thing is that it was a clarification of an existing rule. The clarification said that a player on the ground cannot lunge at the QB below the knee. The exception being is he is blocked or fouled into the QB. It is as if they added a sentence to any to any existing law that included something that was already included in the law. "Drivers must not travel faster than the posted speed limit. CLARIFICATION: Drivers with mustaches must not travel faster than the posted speed limit unless they are being pushed by another car." And, they still got it wrong. I actually thought the flag was for grounding at first as I saw nothing wrong with Wilfork's hit. It was only after Wilfork started reacting...
    Posted by EnochRoot
    EnochRoot, I agree 100% with your final statement as that is exactly what I thought.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    In Response to Re: Roughing the quaterback:

    I believe the original rule - after the Carson Palmer hit - was that you could intentionally hit a player at or below the knee unless blocked into the QB.  I believe the Brady rule is actually new in that a player cannot lunge at a QB from the ground.   They may crawl or stand and continue their pursuit, but not lunge to hit.  The Palmer rule was more about player coming from an upright or standing position and intentionally "going low". I'd imagine the NFL will say something about this call.

    Posted by underdogg

     

    Here is the original rule as written from the 2006 Rule Book:

     

    Rule 12, Section 2, Article 12: A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him.

     

    Here are the addenda from 2009:

     

    Note 1: A defender cannot initiate a roll or lunge and forcibly hit the passer in the knee area or below, even if he is being contacted by another player.

    Note 2: It is not a foul if the defender swipes, wraps, or grabs a passer in the knee area or below in an attempt to tackle him.

     

    It isn't a new rule. It is, as 50 million articles on the Internet call it, a clarification. 

    It also demonstrates that Pollard's hit was illegal as he was a rushing defender who hit a player who had both feet on the ground at the knee.

     

    Just take half a second to look things up please instead of perpetuating ignorance.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsGhost. Show RedsGhost's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    For the few that have said "he should've stopped at the whistle", watch it again. He was in the process of throwing Edwards to the ground. Unless he can cease gravitional pull or levitate, he COULDN'T have stopped therefore the call was BS.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from paob. Show paob's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    In Response to Roughing the quaterback:
    Can we discuss the 2 ridiculous calls in tonights game? Is this how the game is going to be called for the rest of the year? I'm all for protecting the QB, but that was aweful.
    Posted by bsun70

    Upon review, when you have the announcers in the booth screaming bad call, its' a bad call! Wilfork tackled Edwards above the knees, the back judge was in the endzone to Wilfork's left and Edward's right, no more than twelve feet away and they still made the wrong call. As for Thomas' hit, that's debatable. 

    This was a frustrating game to watch. Granted the end result was a win, but the learning curve has to be steep before game 2 against the Jets.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    In Response to Re: Roughing the quaterback:
    the call on thomas was correct....the whistle had blown as thomas was wrapping up edwards...play over....there was no need to throw edwards to the ground at that point...unbelievable how gruden, trrico and jaworski all missed that 1 as they were whining about the call as well...
    Posted by Pamola707


    Don't you wish the whistle had blown in Super Bowl XLII?  And if you were a player who was holding Eli Manning, wouldn't you throw QB's to the ground now no matter what?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    Bottom line: It's a contact sport!  The roughing on Adalius Thomas led to a Bills TD that almost put the game out of reach.  15 yards and a first down on a 3rd down play has a HUGE impact on the game.

    Also, to anyone who HASN'T ever played full contact football in full pads, try to hear a whistle blowing as the crowd screams WHILE YOU DRAG SOMEONE DOWN.  I think anyone who's ever done a decent workout before knows that your senses decrease as you focus on the physical stress at hand (in this case, dragging Edwards down)
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    In Response to Re: Roughing the quaterback:
    In Response to Re: Roughing the quaterback : Don't you wish the whistle had blown in Super Bowl XLII?  And if you were a player who was holding Eli Manning, wouldn't you throw QB's to the ground now no matter what?
    Posted by NickC1188

    Interesting point.

    Maybe AD can carry a video of that on an iPod onto the field and show it to the ref if they blow a whistle again. (Just to be sure, I am not dissing you. I think it is a good point about how AD would perceive this. Just wondering how to get the message to the refs.)

    Also, if I were AD I would, no matter where I saw him, grab Eli and throw him into the ground. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Stupideeediot. Show Stupideeediot's posts

    Re: Roughing the quaterback

    I think some peopel in this thread are still getting somethign wrong.

    Thomas was not called for a late hit, he was called for roughing the passer.  Therefore whether the whistle blew or not was irrelevant. By specifically calling it 'roughing the passer' the refs are contending that the penalty occured strictly because he was tackling the QB. 

    So the question would be whether he 'piledrove' the QB. I personally didn't think so. I think he PULLED the QB down with him as he was going down.  It did not look like Edwards was in any danger of physical injury form the play and it should be noted that it didn't look like EDWARDS stopped for any whistle either. They whistled the play dead for 'being in the grasp' but Edwards refused to listen to that and lookedl ike he was going to throw the ball anyway.  So Thomas did what the league tells players to do and that's keep playing.

    I consider a lot of late hits as bogus as the hookslide rule for QB's . It's become so frequent that peopl are called for roughing the passer on hookslides that defenders now shy away from QB's who are running. QB's know this and fake a slide atempt all the time to make defenders scared to tackle them.  IMO any motion that looks like a QB MIGHT start to slide should be treated similar to a balk in baseball and result in a penalty on the QB for illegal procedure of some kind. QB's should not be allowed to further abuse the league rules that already baby them.

    So even though as I said this was treated as roughing the passer NOT a late hit ... if it WAS al te hit I would argue that if Edwards is going to continue to try and throw a pass AFTER a ref blows the play dead for 'in the grasp' then defenders should be allowed to hit Edwards.
     
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