Run defense: what's the solution?!

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    Agreed and a playoff caliber QB will exploit that, with his arm, feet or both like Cam Newton did.  

     



    Cam is a one of a kind talent.  There is no other QB in the NFL that could make some of the plays he did against us.  If we see him again it will be in the SB so I wouldn't worry about it too much!

     



    Yeah, but Cam's ability is something other teams have. Seattle has that, as does SF.

    An offense with the ability to make big plays within a really conservative game plan is something that has frustated this defense in the past. 

    Cap, Rusell Wilson/PA Golden Tate, et al. 

    If you can keep NE's offense on the sideline, and eek out a few big plays (what Carolina did) while playing conservative football ... it puts the onus on the NE defense to force a mistake. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Cam is a one of a kind talent.  There is no other QB in the NFL that could make some of the plays he did against us.  If we see him again it will be in the SB so I wouldn't worry about it too much!



    You don't have to be fleet of foot to run for five yards against a D line that can't contain, Alex Smith or Russell Wilson could do the same, moreover it wasn't just Cam Newton running for third down conversions, their backs got third downs at will.  

    Low scoring games, teams that play ball control, teams that don't turn the ball over, these are the teams that can beat us.  Not trying to be a negative nancy, but the original poster asked the question and this is real talk.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:

    I don't have any gameplan for KC because we don't play them.

    All I am saying is, KC can beat Denver next week. From there, KC needs to lose one more, with us running the table, as we should, and then 1 seed is ours.

    As for your handwringing on the Run D, the Run D was just fine the last 2 games with Sopaga playing the more snaps than he did last night.

    You seem to be getting confused with how BB tailors a gameplan with his personnel and how to best slow or dupe the opponent.

    Last night was a classic, an absolute classic BB gameplan.  I figured you would have been all over it appreciating it. Most Pats fans don't get what I am even talking about.

    Like, moron Bustchise, would normally be in here saying "Moreno ran for 200 yards" and "your run D stinks", and that's because he doesn't get what BB does or was doing last night.

    BB opened up the door and Gomer walked right through it. Gomie just didn't know someone was standing on the other side with a hammer. 



    The run D is one team away from dead last in the NFL, there's no sugar coating that or writing it off to gameplanning that only you seem to understand.  

    I've been posting here for close to two decades, I'm pretty sure I understand a thing or two...

     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:

    Obviously you don't. Our team went to the SB with this supposed "31st ranked" D in 2011.

    I don't go by rankings. I go by what I see.

    I know what I see. That is two back to back ingenius gameplans by BB.  The refs screwed us in Carolina and Ridley fumbled for that loss, where last night, BB was in Gomer's head.

    What did Gomer have, like 175 yards passing? lol

     

    The defense was ranked 15th in 2011, not 31st, myself and the rest of the NFL go by points not yards.  

    You don't win games because you got the most yards, you win because you got the most points and prevented the other team from getting points.  

    Points scored, points against and turnovers are the most important stats in football, everything else just tells the story.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!

    I thought last night was a battle of wills between Manning and BB. BB said I am going to give you all you want on the ground, but I am going to stop the Pass. Manning said, ok, I am going to run at will, until you try and stop the run, and then I am going to throw TD's. BB never wavered. He gave the Broncos the run game all night. He shut down the pass game until the final drive...and then brilliantly made Manning not only play the Pats defense, but the elements as well in OT

    That said, I still thought Vellano and to a certain degree Jones were over matched. But perfect game plan by BB...we saw polar opposites on defense with in 1 week...Carolina game and last night BB rolled out 100% different defenses and both worked to perfection, even though the outcome of the Carolina game did not go Pats way

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    I thought last night was a battle of wills between Manning and BB. BB said I am going to give you all you want on the ground, but I am going to stop the Pass. Manning said, ok, I am going to run at will, until you try and stop the run, and then I am going to throw TD's. BB never wavered. He gave the Broncos the run game all night. He shut down the pass game until the final drive...and then brilliantly made Manning not only play the Pats defense, but the elements as well in OT

    That said, I still thought Vellano and to a certain degree Jones were over matched. But perfect game plan by BB...we saw polar opposites on defense with in 1 week...Carolina game and last night BB rolled out 100% different defenses and both worked to perfection, even though the outcome of the Carolina game did not go Pats way



    I don't think he gave them the run, rather he left it up to his front three or four to contain the run and committed everyone else to the pass.  If Chris Jones and Vellano were Wilfork and Kelly the D line would have stuffed the run without any help and the Patriots would likely be undefeated right now.

    Vellano was undrafted and plays that way, Chris Jones was a late round pick and plays that way, works fine for now but in the playoffs we'll be hard pressed to find teams with regular season weaknesses.  

    My preseason pick to win the Super Bowl was the Patriots and nothing has changed, but I won't pretend that it hasn't gotten substantially more difficult without Wilfork, Collinsworth was saying the same exact thing last night when the camera was pointed at Vince in his warmups.

    I have to get to the supermarket, be back later to see if our resident deadhead has come up with a reason why dead last is actually a good thing?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!

    Lots of good stuff... so all this begs the question:

    "Outside of players on the roster stepping up, is there any more talent out there the Pats can get to shore up the middle of the D?"

    I ask because is the team "stuck" with what it has now, if so, what bodes for the rest of the season when it comes to the run D?

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Angel-of-Light. Show Angel-of-Light's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!

    Stop the pass first and let the opposing O run all day. Eventually they will get tired or injured. Hey, it worked yesterday!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:

    So, where are we ranked on points right now? What did the D allow, 24 points?

    Overall, brilliant gameplan from BB.  Let the Broncos run the ball and think they can win by doing that. Brilliant.



    We are currently ranked 9th, we were ranked 2nd when Vince and Kelly were healthy... we're trending in the wrong direction.  

    It has everything to do with DT's, which coincidentally has everything to do with run defense, pretend like there's no difference between Wilfork/Kelly and Vellano/Jones if you like, but realize that it is a completely ridiculous notion.

    The original poster asked how we might improve at run defense, my answer is simple, find an upgrade to Vellano.  The guy is a turnstile...

    I just realized I was arguing with Rusty.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!


    they baited Peyton to run. they were gonna give up the run, sadly i think they didnt plan on 7 ypc but hey, besides the short fields they never let Moreno run down the whole field down our throats. BEND DONT BREAK BABY

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!


    I know one thing, if we the same game plan used last night was used against Seattle, say in the Super Bowl in cold Jersey, Marshawn Lynch might have had 400 yards rushing. Then again, we have BB coming up with gameplans so we should be good. 

    I say give Forston a shot as a run stuffer. Big body and looks strong to me. Vellano and jones are huge effort guys, but ar clearly out matched physically.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!

    The Patriots turned the ball over three times and allowed 280 rushing yards yet they still beat argueably the best team in the NFL and you're looking for solutions?

    The Patriots aren't very good (due to injuries) but neither is anyone else (due to injuries). They can beat anyone, anytime, anywhere.

     
  16. This post has been removed.

     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!


    Take the wind and make 'em throw!

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:

    They aren't very good? What on earth? If you want no good, go look at 75% of the rest of the league.

    Lots of bad or mediocre.


    They aren't very good. They aren't the '85 Bears. They aren't the '89 49ers. They aren't the '04 Patriots. Compared to those teams they aren't very good.

    What you missed in my post above is that the Patriots are the best team in the NFL in 2013 imo.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:



    WHo said Jones and Vellano are better than Vince Wilfork or Tommy Kelly?  

    Show me the yards allowed on the ground in the games Sopaga played in the midde for us. 

    Thanks.

    PS We aren't arguing, I am slowly leading you down a path to show how much of a short sighted knee jerk reaction your premise is.  There is a difference. lol



    Your inference as well as many other posters here is that the Patriots haven't missed a beat since Wilfork and Kelly went on the IR because Vellano and Jones are excellent replacements.  Digger's reality is closer to the truth, the remainder of the defense is greater than the sum of it's parts in relation to the rest of the league. 

    There's nothing knee jerk about a reaction I've stuck to since Wilfrok got hurt and you and others told me not to sweat it because Vellano was doing very good.  Total BS, the defense may be playing well, but against teams who's strengths are power running and ball control we are vulnerable, unless of course the offense can score more than the opponent. 

    The only path you're leading me down Rusty is the one where I eventually put you on "ignore" because this will devolve into name calling by you.  Saying undrafted Joe Vellano is no drop off from the premier nose tackle in the NFL, probably of his generation is a joke, not accepting that we have plummeted from 2nd to 9th best defense in the league because of his loss is even more silly.  When Carolina needed a 3rd and 5 they got it easily, whether it was Newton, Tolbert or Williams running.  Sopaga played against Carolina, for all the good that did. 

    There's a huge difference between a 350 pound, 5x Pro Bowl, 1st round draft pick Vince Wilfork and an undrafted, barely 300 pound Joe Vellano, that we're even discussing this says more about your stubborn nature than it does about the truth.  You stated Vellano was a good player the day after Vince got hurt and you'd rather be right than simply face the facts.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sobchack. Show Sobchack's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!

    If the Pats jump out to early leads, it will force opponents to throw more.  I think BB will figure out a plan on a game-to-game basis.  Give credit to Del Rio for surprising BB with a run heavy O plan - it   exposed a problem bigger than we thought it was.

    So, I don't expect someone to run for 200 yds on us again, unless it's garbage time.

    As we know,  2 years ago the 31st ranked pass D held up well pretty well in the SB.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:



    WHo said Jones and Vellano are better than Vince Wilfork or Tommy Kelly?  

     

    Show me the yards allowed on the ground in the games Sopaga played in the midde for us. 

    Thanks.

    PS We aren't arguing, I am slowly leading you down a path to show how much of a short sighted knee jerk reaction your premise is.  There is a difference. lol

     



    Your inference as well as many other posters here is that the Patriots haven't missed a beat since Wilfork and Kelly went on the IR because Vellano and Jones are excellent replacements.  Digger's reality is closer to the truth, the remainder of the defense is greater than the sum of it's parts in relation to the rest of the league. 

     

    There's nothing knee jerk about a reaction I've stuck to since Wilfrok got hurt and you and others told me not to sweat it because Vellano was doing very good.  Total BS, the defense may be playing well, but against teams who's strengths are power running and ball control we are vulnerable, unless of course the offense can score more than the opponent. 

    The only path you're leading me down Rusty is the one where I eventually put you on "ignore" because this will devolve into name calling by you.  Saying undrafted Joe Vellano is no drop off from the premier nose tackle in the NFL, probably of his generation is a joke, not accepting that we have plummeted from 2nd to 9th best defense in the league because of his loss is even more silly.  When Carolina needed a 3rd and 5 they got it easily, whether it was Newton, Tolbert or Williams running.  Sopaga played against Carolina, for all the good that did. 

    There's a huge difference between a 350 pound, 5x Pro Bowl, 1st round draft pick Vince Wilfork and an undrafted, barely 300 pound Joe Vellano, that we're even discussing this says more about your stubborn nature than it does about the truth.  You stated Vellano was a good player the day after Vince got hurt and you'd rather be right than simply face the facts.




    Good post Wozzy.  But of course Rusty will turn it into a name calling session full of lies and deflection. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    I would rather find solutions to getting better which is what I assume BB is thinking as well considering he preaches to get better every week.  I hope AJ Francis or Siliga on the practice squad can contribute something.  

    And as if on cue, Pats bring some beef up from the practice squad.  

    Sealver Siliga has some mass, let's hope he proves to be a force...

    Guess I may have had a point after all huh Rusty? 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Run defense: what's the solution?!

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    The run defense was 9th in the NFL when Wilfork and Kelly were still healthy, but we we're also the 2nd best defense overall in the NFL; the Jests tool has no clue what he's talking about.

    That being said, we are really bad against the run, currently we rank 31st in rushing attempts against, 31st in rushing yards and 26th in yards per attempt.  The drop from the top ten is because of the loss of Vince and Kelly.  DT is the only weakness on this defense.

    That being said we are still the 9th best defense in the NFL, substantially better than our last two Super Bowl appearances when we were ranked 15th and we still can improve.  Our pass defense is really good even with all the injuries and rotating guys in and out.  I think if we can find someone to replace Vellano as a starter our defensive rank could start rising again...



    Here's a great thread where I tell Rusty that Vellano is the problem and tells me not to worry, Soapoga is the answer... wrong.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share