Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Army2LT. Show Army2LT's posts

    Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    Does anyone think the Lions can upset the Saints to give us a better selection come April?

    How about the Raiders going 8-8?  There seems to be a plethora of teams with that record.  It seems like we could be picking anywhere between 48-56.  Does anyone have a better idea how to narrow that one down?
     
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    Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    In Response to Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks:
    Does anyone think the Lions can upset the Saints to give us a better selection come April? How about the Raiders going 8-8?  There seems to be a plethora of teams with that record.  It seems like we could be picking anywhere between 48-56.  Does anyone have a better idea how to narrow that one down?
    Posted by Army2LT


    I think the Lions can put up 40 points against NO. They did lose 31-17 earlier this year, but kept shooting themselves in the foot. They have the offense to put up points, they defense is not as good as I thought it was.
     
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    Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    There are 7 teams (after the Cowboys/Giants game) who will be 8-8, not including playoff teams.  There are 12 teams with worse records.  So by that thought, the Raiders pick could be anywhere between 45-51.  

    Does anyone know if that is decided by coin flips or strength of schedule?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    I think we need to trade the Saints pick and get better value. We gave up slots if it remains this way.
     
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    Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    IMO Lions have to play disciplined football; Brees has to have a clunker as I don't think Stafford can outdual him in the Louisana Track  Dome.
     
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    Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    Philskiw1,

    How did we give up slots?  Wasn't it a 28th overall?  The only way we get a 28 or better is if the Saints beat the 49ers in the divisional round, right?
      
     
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    Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    Best case scenario is that we pick-

    #24(NO)
    #32
    #45(OAK)
    #64

    Most likely will be-

    #31 (NO)
    #32 
    #49 (OAK)
    #64

    Still not bad though.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    In Response to Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks:
    There are 7 teams (after the Cowboys/Giants game) who will be 8-8, not including playoff teams.  There are 12 teams with worse records.  So by that thought, the Raiders pick could be anywhere between 45-51.   Does anyone know if that is decided by coin flips or strength of schedule?
    Posted by Army2LT

    Strength of schedule is the first factor.  Here are the rules...

    TIE-BREAKING PROCEDURE FOR SELECTION MEETING

    1. Clubs not participating in the playoffs shall select in the first through 20th positions in reverse standings order.
    2. The Super Bowl winner is last and Super Bowl loser is next-to-last.
    3. The losers of the Conference Championship games shall select 29th and 30th based on won-lost-tied percentage.
    4. The losers of the Divisional playoff games shall select 25th through 28th based on won-lost-tied percentage.
    5. The losers of the Wild Card games shall select 21st through 24th based on won-lost-tied percentage.

    If ties exist in any grouping except (2) above, such ties shall be broken by strength-of-schedule. If any ties cannot be broken by strength-of-schedule, the divisional or conference tie-breakers, if applicable, shall be applied. Any ties that still exist shall be broken by a coin flip.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    In Response to Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks:
    Mark INgram done for the year.  Ridley looking like a hiddden gem especially with NOs 1st rounder next year.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII

    What does NO's pick and Ridley have to do with each other? I understand that Ingram was taken with that traded pick and Ridley is a RB but Ridley was taken as the second running back picked regardless if they traded the pick or not. So essentially the trade was for Vereen (virtually nonexistent this year, hopefully will play a bigger role for a 2nd round pick next year) and NO #1 this year which looks like it will be higher then the #1 that was traded. The trade is predicated on whether Vereen turns into a serviceable back or not, not how Ridley performs.

    It's also not to mention that Ingram wasn't the sure pick considering the Pats had concern with Ingrams injury to begin with. What if the pick was Jabaal Sheard or Brooks Reed like most people wanted?

     
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    Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    http://www.betvega.com/nfl-strength-of-schedule/

    I'm not smart enough to figure this one out.  Do they switch every round, or does that only happen when coin flips decide the first round?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Army2LT. Show Army2LT's posts

    Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    In Response to Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks:
    In Response to Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks : What does NO's pick and Ridley have to do with each other? I understand that Ingram was taken with that traded pick and Ridley is a RB but Ridley was taken as the second running back picked regardless if they traded the pick or not. So essentially the trade was for Vereen (virtually nonexistent this year, hopefully will play a bigger role for a 2nd round pick next year) and NO #1 this year which looks like it will be higher then the #1 that was traded. The trade is predicated on whether Vereen turns into a serviceable back or not, not how Ridley performs. It's also not to mention that Ingram wasn't the sure pick considering the Pats had concern with Ingrams injury to begin with. What if the pick was Jabaal Sheard or Brooks Reed like most people wanted?
    Posted by PatsEng


    I think what he's trying to say is not only did we get a first round pick, we also selected a better RB 45 picks after Ingram was taken.
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    In Response to Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks:
    http://www.betvega.com/nfl-strength-of-schedule/ I'm not smart enough to figure this one out.  Do they switch every round, or does that only happen when coin flips decide the first round?
    Posted by Army2LT

    they switch every round.  I'll figure this out and post once I do.  Tabulating the SOS for the 8-8 teams now...
     
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    Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    In Response to Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks:
    In Response to Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks : they switch every round.  I'll figure this out and post once I do.  Tabulating the SOS for the 8-8 teams now...
    Posted by Faucetman



    Thanks Faucetman, much appreciated.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    In Response to Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks:
    In Response to Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks : I think what he's trying to say is not only did we get a first round pick, we also selected a better RB 45 picks after Ingram was taken.
    Posted by Army2LT

    Except we didn't get a 1st round pick. It cost us a 1st to get that 1st which give or take a couple of position (looks like take) is the same position we sold. And if you are saying that NO had to spend a higher pick to get a worse back that what does that say that we had to trade back not spending a high pick on a position of need and drafting a worse back this year before getting Ridley? You can say that about a lot of things and positions though, for example Maroney, Watson, Cunningham.... I never compare picks unless a trade directly affects players we could of had verses what was taken (ie Johnson over Jennings) or if we took the wrong player directly infront of the right player (ie Cunningham over Dunlap) otherwise it will drive you mad thinking about the hidden gems you missed or flops you passed over.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    In Response to Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks:
    In Response to Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks : Ridley is an SEC lead back from a top notch program and although not an exact mirror of Ingram's style, has some power and size, with great production there. He wasn't a Hesiman Trophy winner or even a candidate, but is a very nice draft pick to develop. I like how BB took two RBs, because we'll need two to develop, and one is close in skill set, if not better for our offense (pass catching, solid blocking) as well as dodging Ingram as an optioin with his questionable knee issue as a senior. I don't understand why you're confused. NE passed on INgram, got two RBs to develop and secured NOs 1st rd pick. It's basically a fleecing.  Barring Ingram morphing into Emmit Smith, I don't see how you can't agree. I liked Reed or Sheard as an option too, but if BB was moving to a 4-3 then those two don't fit.  At the time, we did not know he would be switching.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII



    The reason I'm confused is because you are comparing NO taking Ingram and us Ridley when one didn't affect the other from happening. 

    Yes NO spent a 1st to get him and I'd say if Vereen proved to be a serviceable back this year that it's fair to compare Vereen to Ingram but not Ridley and Ingram. Frankly if Vereen doesn't develop and we get nothing from NO's pick this year then what's the net result from Ingram and what we ended up with? Absolutely no difference and Ridleys performance one way or another won't affect that.
     
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    Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    In Response to Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks:
    Yes, we got NOs 1st rd pick in 2012.  WIth a rookie cap in place, BB is now armed with 2 1st rd picks, to possibly target a player they covet in the top 10 and not be affected by cost as much.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII

    And there was a rookie cap this year too. Not to mention late round 1st's don't cost anything to begin with.

    All it does though is make it much more difficult to trade up to a top 10 pick since there is a rookie cap not a lot of teams would be willing to give up a top 10 pick for a couple late 1st picks

    Those draft pick value charts are useless now for top 10 picks so don't look at it as being good value anymore for those teams to trade

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    In Response to Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks:
    True, but which approach do you prefer?  Do you really want to go into a draft with no 1st rd pick? BB would be strung up here if he traded a 1st rd pick just because he had a hard on for a draft prospect. I love the approach.  Vereen looks good to me, he just lost the battle with Ridley on a team that isn't running much and didn't have a rookie camp to try to develop quicker. If BB does trade up for a player they love at DE, for example, in 2012's draft, and that player is a gem for years like a Seymour, how could you not like the move?
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII

    I didn't like NO's approach to move into the late 1st by giving up their 1st next year. But, I'm also not to fond of trading back in a draft that has a lot of talent in a position of need. For example how many pass rushers who have had 5+ sack seasons in their first 2 years has BB passed up on? If you could of had a Sheard or Reed this year going into the playoffs how would you not like that move?

    It's a fine line you have to walk and unfortunately the rules or trading have changed. 2 picks in the last 4-6 picks in the 1st won't get you in the top 10 anymore, and maybe not even in the top 15. Just to move up 10 spots will cost you Oak's 2nd and a 1st because of the rookie cap. The best thing they can do is hope they can pull of another 49ers trade because at this point unless they hit on both those 1st or Vereen turns out to be the perfect compliment (which he could or couldn't at this point) to Ridley then there wasn't a player they could have with their current assortment of picks if they didn't make the NO's trade in the first place

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    Philskiw1,

    How did we give up slots?  Wasn't it a 28th overall?  The only way we get a 28 or better is if the Saints beat the 49ers in the divisional round, right

    My bad I thought it was pick 24 but that was NO's natural pick.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Saints and Raiders 2012 draft picks

    Here's the deal.  We have to wait to see if the NYG or DAL joins this group.  I didn't figure out where they would stand.  Right now it looks like pick 48 but could be +/- 1 from there...

    Pick Order Round 1SOS
    13ARI0.469
    14PHI0.488
    15NYJ0.500
    16Oak0.506
    17SD0.508
    18CHI0.527
    Pick Order Round 2SOS
    46PHI0.488
    47NYJ0.500
    48Oak0.506
    49SD0.508
    50CHI0.527
    51ARI0.469
     
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