salary cap for Jets not so dire

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    salary cap for Jets not so dire

    While nothing was surprising today for those who follow this site I got the feeling that most of the fans were finally happy to see the Jets starting to take action with the teams roster. Here is a cut by cut rundown for the Jets and the impact on the cap:

    Calvin Pace- Of all the cuts this is probably the most impactful for the Jets. Though Pace was a below average pass rusher and overpaid for his role he was still a starting player that saw action on most of the teams defensive snaps. This move officially leaves the Jets without a starting outside linebacker on the team. 34 Outside Linebackers are expensive pieces to find in free agency but I am still of the belief that the Jets will transition almost exclusively to a 43 front which makes replacing Pace much easier. Cutting Pace saved the Jets $8.56 million in cap space as well as cash payroll.

    Bart Scott- Scott will probably be best known for his pro-wrestling esque “Cant Wait” speech following the thrilling victory the Jets had against the Patriots in the 2010 playoffs. That’s not entirely fair as Scott had two good seasons with the team even if he did not fill up the stat sheet, but his abrasive personality and behavior at times towards the media made him an unpopular player these last two years. Scott got old quickly and all the years of deep playoff runs I think caught up with his body in 2011. He was more or less a 50% down player this year and I think most felt that even that was too much action for him as better teams targeted him in the passing game as soon as he came onto the field. Cutting Scott saves the team $7.15 million.

    Eric Smith- A move made one year too late in my opinion. Smith is a valuable special teams player and spot starter but at a $3 million dollar salary there was no way to bring him back. There was a noticeable difference in overall team play when he was replaced this season.

    Jason Smith- Smith was the one contract that Jets had that really made their salary cap a bigger story than it ever should have been. A colossal bust with the Rams, Smith took a paycut in 2012 and in return was given a $12 million dollar salary in 2013 that would ensure his release to free agency. That was $12 million no team was ever going to pay and he carried a $0 dead money charge for the Jets so it was essentially money that was just on the books even though it was never going to be seen.

    Josh Baker- Baker was injured last season and that probably made the move happen now instead of after workouts. Baker was scheduled to earn $555,000.

    Overall- We have talked about these moves for a long time and they come as no surprise. It is why the Jets cap situation was always overblown and screamed “sour grapes” when stories were leaked that GMs did not want the job because of the cap. While the cap isn’t in great shape its not this nightmarish wreck that everyone painted it out to be. Cap hell is when you are forced to cut players who you don’t want to cut. Is anyone going to miss these players? No and its why stating that the Jets have an awful roster and are in cap hell just didn’t fit. The total dead money absorbed in these moves was $4,513,335, which is less than $1 million a player. For the Jets to have been in true cap hell they would have had to take over $10 million in cap charges for the dead weight. This was just housekeeping.

    All in all the Jets slashed $31,265,000 from their payroll today. Now you have to replace each one of those players with a lower cost player so the net cap effect of the moves is the creation of $29,240,000 in cap space. My estimates now have the Jets pegged at $118,213,761 in top 51 cap commitments and a cash payroll of $90,754,199. Based on a salary cap of $122 million, as rumored by Pro Football Talk, that leaves the Jets with $7,186,239 million in cap room after taking into account their $3.4 million dollar cap carryover from 2012.

    None of the moves made today preclude the Jets from bringing any of these players back at a later date. Since each player was either in the final proration year of his contract or had no prorated money in his deal avoiding the release has no effect on the cap charges for the players. Releasing the players now gives them the opportunity to go out and overtly interview with teams both before and during the meeting in Indianapolis. If the market is not there they will then have an opportunity to go back to New York and see if there is interest. Most likely the Jets would consider bringing back any of the players on minimum salary deals, which Pace, Scott, and Smith now can be qualified as.

    I would think the Jets harder job begins now. Unlike these players DT Sione Pouha has two years remaining in his contract making it, from a cap perspective, more important to keep him on the roster as long as possible while trying to reach a reasonable pay decrease for the year. I don’t think he can come back with $5 million in cash coming his way in 2013. You have to work to bring down the cap charges of Santonio Holmes who is in a situation where, if he wants to stay with the Jets and boast a top 5 type contract, he will need to take a paycut. If he refuses the Jets need to consider taking a big cap hit but cap savings by releasing him. Next will be determining if Mark Sanchez is better off carrying a lower cap cost in the present and carrying some money into the future. And of course you have Darrelle Revis who could be traded. Should be a fun few days….

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    While nothing was surprising today for those who follow this site I got the feeling that most of the fans were finally happy to see the Jets starting to take action with the teams roster. Here is a cut by cut rundown for the Jets and the impact on the cap:

    Calvin Pace- Of all the cuts this is probably the most impactful for the Jets. Though Pace was a below average pass rusher and overpaid for his role he was still a starting player that saw action on most of the teams defensive snaps. This move officially leaves the Jets without a starting outside linebacker on the team. 34 Outside Linebackers are expensive pieces to find in free agency but I am still of the belief that the Jets will transition almost exclusively to a 43 front which makes replacing Pace much easier. Cutting Pace saved the Jets $8.56 million in cap space as well as cash payroll.

    Bart Scott- Scott will probably be best known for his pro-wrestling esque “Cant Wait” speech following the thrilling victory the Jets had against the Patriots in the 2010 playoffs. That’s not entirely fair as Scott had two good seasons with the team even if he did not fill up the stat sheet, but his abrasive personality and behavior at times towards the media made him an unpopular player these last two years. Scott got old quickly and all the years of deep playoff runs I think caught up with his body in 2011. He was more or less a 50% down player this year and I think most felt that even that was too much action for him as better teams targeted him in the passing game as soon as he came onto the field. Cutting Scott saves the team $7.15 million.

    Eric Smith- A move made one year too late in my opinion. Smith is a valuable special teams player and spot starter but at a $3 million dollar salary there was no way to bring him back. There was a noticeable difference in overall team play when he was replaced this season.

    Jason Smith- Smith was the one contract that Jets had that really made their salary cap a bigger story than it ever should have been. A colossal bust with the Rams, Smith took a paycut in 2012 and in return was given a $12 million dollar salary in 2013 that would ensure his release to free agency. That was $12 million no team was ever going to pay and he carried a $0 dead money charge for the Jets so it was essentially money that was just on the books even though it was never going to be seen.

    Josh Baker- Baker was injured last season and that probably made the move happen now instead of after workouts. Baker was scheduled to earn $555,000.

    Overall- We have talked about these moves for a long time and they come as no surprise. It is why the Jets cap situation was always overblown and screamed “sour grapes” when stories were leaked that GMs did not want the job because of the cap. While the cap isn’t in great shape its not this nightmarish wreck that everyone painted it out to be. Cap hell is when you are forced to cut players who you don’t want to cut. Is anyone going to miss these players? No and its why stating that the Jets have an awful roster and are in cap hell just didn’t fit. The total dead money absorbed in these moves was $4,513,335, which is less than $1 million a player. For the Jets to have been in true cap hell they would have had to take over $10 million in cap charges for the dead weight. This was just housekeeping.

    All in all the Jets slashed $31,265,000 from their payroll today. Now you have to replace each one of those players with a lower cost player so the net cap effect of the moves is the creation of $29,240,000 in cap space. My estimates now have the Jets pegged at $118,213,761 in top 51 cap commitments and a cash payroll of $90,754,199. Based on a salary cap of $122 million, as rumored by Pro Football Talk, that leaves the Jets with $7,186,239 million in cap room after taking into account their $3.4 million dollar cap carryover from 2012.

    None of the moves made today preclude the Jets from bringing any of these players back at a later date. Since each player was either in the final proration year of his contract or had no prorated money in his deal avoiding the release has no effect on the cap charges for the players. Releasing the players now gives them the opportunity to go out and overtly interview with teams both before and during the meeting in Indianapolis. If the market is not there they will then have an opportunity to go back to New York and see if there is interest. Most likely the Jets would consider bringing back any of the players on minimum salary deals, which Pace, Scott, and Smith now can be qualified as.

    I would think the Jets harder job begins now. Unlike these players DT Sione Pouha has two years remaining in his contract making it, from a cap perspective, more important to keep him on the roster as long as possible while trying to reach a reasonable pay decrease for the year. I don’t think he can come back with $5 million in cash coming his way in 2013. You have to work to bring down the cap charges of Santonio Holmes who is in a situation where, if he wants to stay with the Jets and boast a top 5 type contract, he will need to take a paycut. If he refuses the Jets need to consider taking a big cap hit but cap savings by releasing him. Next will be determining if Mark Sanchez is better off carrying a lower cap cost in the present and carrying some money into the future. And of course you have Darrelle Revis who could be traded. Should be a fun few days….



    cant wait to see rusty go bats over this!  :  )

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    wait until the Jets follow thru to get $20-$30 million under the cap with the follow up moves;

    1. He will make a decision on backup QB Tim Tebow ($2.6 million base salary). The Jets will try to shop him at this week's scouting combine. The first day they can trade him is March 12, so they might keep him until then with the hope that they can swing a deal. Chances are, no one will bite, so they'll end up releasing him.

    2. He has to resolve the Darrelle Revis saga. The star cornerback is due a $1 million roster bonus on March 15, so you'd think they'd make a move before then. The Jets have three primary options: Let him play out his deal in 2013, extend his contract for mega-money or trade him. This will be one of the hottest stories at the combine.

    3. Idzik will approach a few players about restructuring their contracts. The most likely candidates are LB David Harris (team-high $13 million cap charge), WR Santonio Holmes ($12.5 million), CB Antonio Cromartie ($10.8 million), LT D'Brickashaw Ferguson ($10.7 million) and NT Sione Po'uha ($6.2 million).

    QB Mark Sanchez ($12.9 million) could be a candidate, but it doesn't make sense to push his money into future years, considering his tenuous position on the team. They can make a relatively clean break from him after 2013 if they keep his contract as is. There's a downside to restructuring. It's the credit card approach; you save now, but pay later. The Jets should try to avoid that as much as possible.

    4. Idzik will address his own free agents, ramping up talks with agents this week in Indianapolis. The Jets have 12 unrestricted free agents, including eight starters. They appear to be most interested in retaining DT Mike DeVito, TE Dustin Keller and perhaps S LaRon Landry, depending on his price. They also have to make a decision on two key restricted free agents, RT Austin Howard and TE Jeff Cumberland. They have to decide which tender to give Howard -- first-round ($2.9 million) or second-round ($2 million).

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    Jets are still going to find it difficult to bring in many quality free agents, but as you've been saying it's not a total disaster. Still, I'd much rather be in the Pats' situation. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Jets are still going to find it difficult to bring in many quality free agents, but as you've been saying it's not a total disaster. Still, I'd much rather be in the Pats' situation. 



     course, anyone would. the Jets are n the midst of a roster restructure, and will have $20-$30 million to do so. Will they restructure correctly? who knows. they may whiff on free agents and the draft.

    the point I am making, they will have financial flexibility the next 2 years to pull of this restructure, they will win 6-9 games next year, they are gearing up to 2015 with the Pats potentially post Brady.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    isnt this the part where I say;

    1) warnings were out

    2) I predicted this 3 years ago before anyone in the NFL even thought of it

    3) My IQ is 152

    4) point out your spell check mistakes

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    rkarp - yes the Jets cap wasn't as bad as it looked but you still have to look at it realistically. They cut enough players to get just enough cap for their draft. In doing so they cut 2 players that were starters last year (Pace, Scott) with maybe 1 player who might or might no be able to fill their role on the roster. They will need to replace both but can't unless through the draft because they don't have the cap right now. Then they cut a T when they were already very thin at T to begin with. It was a wise move but that's another area they won't be able to address unless through the draft or if other players get cut. They already have 12 FA's with 8 being starters so when you add it all together they lost 17 players with 10 being starters and only maybe half of those starting positions can be replaced with players currently on the roster and barely enough money to cover their draft picks, because they pick so high.

    Yes they can clear out even more space, Tebow would be the obvious (1mil), but they don't have a ton of players they can move to make a lot of space. Revis being the obvious trade (9mil) and Pouha being the cut (3.8mil). But, other then Tebow the others are already starters and what you save won't be able to replace what you cut. They could covert Sanchez's and Holmes money into guaranteed money to spread it out a little but then they'd run the risk of being in the same position next year without the ability to cut either. So, trading Revis seems like the best way to get space. Now other teams know you basically have to dump Revis so you are going to get dimes on the dollar in a trade and you will have freed up enough space to replace the FA's you could potentially lose.

    Anyway you slice it because of their cap situation they will lose starting caliber players and have to replace them with sub starter quality. Yes they are going to be able to fill out a roster but since they have gone on their initial spending spree a couple years back their team has been trending downward because of the cap mismanagement. They had to replace talent and depth with mediocre players at best and that will have to continue into this year as they will become a less talented team, yet again, because they don't have the resources to find proper replacements for those they needed to cut for cap space

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from quinzpatsfan. Show quinzpatsfan's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    Who cares the Jets suck, I have no problem talking about other teams but let's talk about relative ones.....  Well at least it's 2 easy wins for us!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    rkarp - yes the Jets cap wasn't as bad as it looked but you still have to look at it realistically. They cut enough players to get just enough cap for their draft. In doing so they cut 2 players that were starters last year (Pace, Scott) with maybe 1 player who might or might no be able to fill their role on the roster. They will need to replace both but can't unless through the draft because they don't have the cap right now. Then they cut a T when they were already very thin at T to begin with. It was a wise move but that's another area they won't be able to address unless through the draft or if other players get cut. They already have 12 FA's with 8 being starters so when you add it all together they lost 17 players with 10 being starters and only maybe half of those starting positions can be replaced with players currently on the roster and barely enough money to cover their draft picks, because they pick so high.

    Yes they can clear out even more space, Tebow would be the obvious (1mil), but they don't have a ton of players they can move to make a lot of space. Revis being the obvious trade (9mil) and Pouha being the cut (3.8mil). But, other then Tebow the others are already starters and what you save won't be able to replace what you cut. They could covert Sanchez's and Holmes money into guaranteed money to spread it out a little but then they'd run the risk of being in the same position next year without the ability to cut either. So, trading Revis seems like the best way to get space. Now other teams know you basically have to dump Revis so you are going to get dimes on the dollar in a trade and you will have freed up enough space to replace the FA's you could potentially lose.

    Anyway you slice it because of their cap situation they will lose starting caliber players and have to replace them with sub starter quality. Yes they are going to be able to fill out a roster but since they have gone on their initial spending spree a couple years back their team has been trending downward because of the cap mismanagement. They had to replace talent and depth with mediocre players at best and that will have to continue into this year as they will become a less talented team, yet again, because they don't have the resources to find proper replacements for those they needed to cut for cap space



    you are 100% correct...

    I simply point out the Jets will have $20-$30 million to re position the roster after being ridiculed the past 2 months that it was impossible. they will have another similar amount available next year

    I find it funny that Vollmer is being discussed on this board for signing with the Pats as low as $6 per to $8 per, yet JAson SMith who never played and is horrible, was cut saving $12 million, and you point to this as the Jets missing a tackle...

    I also have concerns about the PAts cap, with Brady set to earn $44mil the next 2 years, Vince on the wrong side of 30, MAnkins unable to stay healthy, tremendous resources in 2 TE's that cant stay on the field and Hern disappearing in big games. Never mind that perpetual black hole of a secondary.

    I think the advantage with the Pats is Kraft vs Woody, and BB obviously puts the PAts at a big advantage. I think it a mistake to short change Idzik, who is very, very bright.

    Will be interesting as it unfolds....and the big kicker is over the next 2-3 weeks as the Jets do get to $20-$30 million under, do they start to nibble at Pats free agents Arrington, Woody, Chung, Thomas et al....the Pats simply dont have the flexiblity to deal with Wes, Talib and Vollmer and re sign these value players....

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    I don't know what your fued is with whomever. I avoided this cap thing as I do I not care about any of it or the jets.

     

    However. The mere fact they had to do all that AND still have to do all the follow up moves you suggest seems to show me the flat out problem that they were in.

     

    They either had a problem or did not have a problem. The moves would seem to show they had a big problem no? No other way to look at it.

     

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    In response to LessPhatRex's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Jets are still going to find it difficult to bring in many quality free agents, but as you've been saying it's not a total disaster. Still, I'd much rather be in the Pats' situation. 

     



    Let history be your guide.  In 2009, after  moving on from the Favre injury, bringing in a new HC and in the midst of this yearly salary cap hell, they replaced 11 starters and finished with the NFLs best D, and a trip the the final 4.  Those who do not know history and bound to be ridiculed as Queenie is.

     



    OK so we will all try and remember that you are predicting that the Jets will go to the AFCCG game this upcoming season correct?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    rkarp - yes the Jets cap wasn't as bad as it looked but you still have to look at it realistically. They cut enough players to get just enough cap for their draft. In doing so they cut 2 players that were starters last year (Pace, Scott) with maybe 1 player who might or might no be able to fill their role on the roster. They will need to replace both but can't unless through the draft because they don't have the cap right now. Then they cut a T when they were already very thin at T to begin with. It was a wise move but that's another area they won't be able to address unless through the draft or if other players get cut. They already have 12 FA's with 8 being starters so when you add it all together they lost 17 players with 10 being starters and only maybe half of those starting positions can be replaced with players currently on the roster and barely enough money to cover their draft picks, because they pick so high.

    Yes they can clear out even more space, Tebow would be the obvious (1mil), but they don't have a ton of players they can move to make a lot of space. Revis being the obvious trade (9mil) and Pouha being the cut (3.8mil). But, other then Tebow the others are already starters and what you save won't be able to replace what you cut. They could covert Sanchez's and Holmes money into guaranteed money to spread it out a little but then they'd run the risk of being in the same position next year without the ability to cut either. So, trading Revis seems like the best way to get space. Now other teams know you basically have to dump Revis so you are going to get dimes on the dollar in a trade and you will have freed up enough space to replace the FA's you could potentially lose.

    Anyway you slice it because of their cap situation they will lose starting caliber players and have to replace them with sub starter quality. Yes they are going to be able to fill out a roster but since they have gone on their initial spending spree a couple years back their team has been trending downward because of the cap mismanagement. They had to replace talent and depth with mediocre players at best and that will have to continue into this year as they will become a less talented team, yet again, because they don't have the resources to find proper replacements for those they needed to cut for cap space

     



    you are 100% correct...

     

    I simply point out the Jets will have $20-$30 million to re position the roster after being ridiculed the past 2 months that it was impossible. they will have another similar amount available next year

    I find it funny that Vollmer is being discussed on this board for signing with the Pats as low as $6 per to $8 per, yet JAson SMith who never played and is horrible, was cut saving $12 million, and you point to this as the Jets missing a tackle...

    I also have concerns about the PAts cap, with Brady set to earn $44mil the next 2 years, Vince on the wrong side of 30, MAnkins unable to stay healthy, tremendous resources in 2 TE's that cant stay on the field and Hern disappearing in big games. Never mind that perpetual black hole of a secondary.

    I think the advantage with the Pats is Kraft vs Woody, and BB obviously puts the PAts at a big advantage. I think it a mistake to short change Idzik, who is very, very bright.

    Will be interesting as it unfolds....and the big kicker is over the next 2-3 weeks as the Jets do get to $20-$30 million under, do they start to nibble at Pats free agents Arrington, Woody, Chung, Thomas et al....the Pats simply dont have the flexiblity to deal with Wes, Talib and Vollmer and re sign these value players....

     




    The thing about Vollmer and Smith is that Vollmer is a starting caliber RT which usually fits in around $6-8mil per year range. With the right contract his cap hit for that first year could be $3-6mil which is a more then realistic possibility. Jason Smith on the other hand was the #2 pick before rookie contract were tamed in and he had a clause in his contract about being traded which boasted his cap number for the following year. Everyone knew it was a 1 year rental but still other then Ferguson who do they have at T? Howard and Ducasse are both worse then Cannon and having to cut any T serverly hurts them as Ducasse might as well not be on anyones roster. Smith was essentially a bandaid trying to hold together a gapping wound on the OL last year and it ddn't work in the least. They are going to have to find a way to plug that hole and as of today they can't do it via FA. So it leaves them with one starter (Ferguson), one decent backup (Howard) and one person I wouldn't trust to run a revolving door (Ducasse).

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    I don't know what your fued is with whomever. I avoided this cap thing as I do I not care about any of it or the jets.

     

    However. The mere fact they had to do all that AND still have to do all the follow up moves you suggest seems to show me the flat out problem that they were in.

     

    They either had a problem or did not have a problem. The moves would seem to show they had a big problem no? No other way to look at it.

     

     

     




    the Jets problem was poor player evaluation. this was where Tannenbaum failed. The players the Jets are losing are not good players any more (Scott, Pace) or never were (Greene, Smith)

    I dont fault the Sanchez contract, he was coming off 2 AFCCCG's and a 32TD season. He regressed, and lost most all of his security blankets. He didnt have the talent to overcome the injuries and misread of talent around him. HE is a systm QB and the system failed

    It would not surprise me if Idzik fills in with Arringtons, Woodys, Thomas's, Ahmed Bradhsaw types, stock piles draft choices, and lives and dies on his drafting accumen...shying away from the flash signings.

    who is to say they dont luck into a Russell Wilson in the 3rd or a TB in the 6th?

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    I don't know what your fued is with whomever. I avoided this cap thing as I do I not care about any of it or the jets.

     

    However. The mere fact they had to do all that AND still have to do all the follow up moves you suggest seems to show me the flat out problem that they were in.

     

    They either had a problem or did not have a problem. The moves would seem to show they had a big problem no? No other way to look at it.

     

     

     

     




     

    the Jets problem was poor player evaluation. this was where Tannenbaum failed. The players the Jets are losing are not good players any more (Scott, Pace) or never were (Greene, Smith)

    I dont fault the Sanchez contract, he was coming off 2 AFCCCG's and a 32TD season. He regressed, and lost most all of his security blankets. He didnt have the talent to overcome the injuries and misread of talent around him. HE is a systm QB and the system failed

    It would not surprise me if Idzik fills in with Arringtons, Woodys, Thomas's, Ahmed Bradhsaw types, stock piles draft choices, and lives and dies on his drafting accumen...shying away from the flash signings.

    who is to say they dont luck into a Russell Wilson in the 3rd or a TB in the 6th?

     




    It's possible they could but odds are they won't. Wilson only has one year under his belt, it was a great year, but Flutie also had a couple of good years and given Wilson's size there is the question if he can maintain the level of play. If he can then QB's like him found in the 3rd are a rarity. In TB's case, TB is the one in a million shot. There might never be another QB who will come close to TB found in the 6th again. So while possible it's not likely. Most QB's in the NFL are top 50 draft picks for a reason and there is a reason teams who grab QB's outside of the top 20 are usually looking to replace them within a couple of years.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    Well you were right - the Jets cut unproductive players and saved thirty million overnight. Kind of ruins this whole "salary cap hell" situation thing.

    This is what I'm probably going to regret saying...I wish we had went all in like them three years ago. I would gladly watch our team cut 6-7 unproductive, old and pretty much washed up players today, knowing that we would of had another Super Bowl. That's the difference between the Jets and us - the Jets were doomed from the start because they forgot the most important part....you can't go all in if you don't have a franchise quarterback. Even then, they almost made it to the Super Bowl - I have to think we would of won at least one more if we had taken that approach with Brady.

    The Jets huge mistake was resigning Sanchez - that was a real head scratcher - to me that was a ego move by Tannanbum and Rex. They wanted to prove they were right by selecting Sanchez as high as they did. What really would bother me if I were a Jet fan was the way Rex stood by Sanchez this season when a change should of been made - Rex put his ego ahead of the Jet's season last year. I would be outraged if I was a fan.

    I wonder if a guy like Calvin Pace would be a good fit here for cheap money?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    Just curious?

    What's the difference between the jest having to cut a number of players to get under the cap and the Pats situation.  There is a good chance none of the Pats high dollar free agents will not be cut, but not re-signed because of limited cap space. Same difference?

    Those players will ALSO have to be replaced if not re-signed, with a cheaper and probably not as good option.

    That money does not even come off the books as they are FA's.  They will have to spend $$.

    The Pats may have to replace or restructure some key players, too, as 18m to replace ~20 guys, with several of them being starters, is not great.

    So, who do the Pats trade or cut, in addition to losing some key FA's? 

    1, 10M guy or 3, 3m guys to create more cap?

    Who do they restructure to put the cap hit in 2014 or beyond?

    Something has to happen.  Right?

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    Well you were right - the Jets cut unproductive players and saved thirty million overnight. Kind of ruins this whole "salary cap hell" situation thing.

    This is what I'm probably going to regret saying...I wish we had went all in like them three years ago. I would gladly watch our team cut 6-7 unproductive, old and pretty much washed up players today, knowing that we would of had another Super Bowl. That's the difference between the Jets and us - the Jets were doomed from the start because they forgot the most important part....you can't go all in if you don't have a franchise quarterback. Even then, they almost made it to the Super Bowl - I have to think we would of won at least one more if we had taken that approach with Brady.

    The Jets huge mistake was resigning Sanchez - that was a real head scratcher - to me that was a ego move by Tannanbum and Rex. They wanted to prove they were right by selecting Sanchez as high as they did. What really would bother me if I were a Jet fan was the way Rex stood by Sanchez this season when a change should of been made - Rex put his ego ahead of the Jet's season last year. I would be outraged if I was a fan.

    I wonder if a guy like Calvin Pace would be a good fit here for cheap money?

     



    Did I miss the sarcasim of one of those two statements?

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    Just curious?

    What's the difference between the jest having to cut a number of players to get under the cap and the Pats situation.  There is a good chance none of the Pats high dollar free agents will not be cut, but not re-signed because of limited cap space. Same difference?

    Those players will ALSO have to be replaced if not re-signed, with a cheaper and probably not as good option.

    That money does not even come off the books as they are FA's.  They will have to spend $$.

    The Pats may have to replace or restructure some key players, too, as 18m to replace ~20 guys, with several of them being starters, is not great.

    So, who do the Pats trade or cut, in addition to losing some key FA's? 

    1, 10M guy or 3, 3m guys to create more cap?

    Who do they restructure to put the cap hit in 2014 or beyond?

    Something has to happen.  Right?

     



    No it is not the same difference.

    The Pats players they liked were able to play out  their contract at a "vlaue" the organization placed on them for their position. Whether or not they can reach a new deal with a player they wish to continue to keep at a "value" that still fits what they feel that player has to them is in question.

    The jets "cutting" a player means they had to cut a player they originally felt was of the value they signed them for as well as possibly still wanting to keep but had to make hard decisions because of salary cap reasons.

    Those are very different things.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    Well you were right - the Jets cut unproductive players and saved thirty million overnight. Kind of ruins this whole "salary cap hell" situation thing.

    This is what I'm probably going to regret saying...I wish we had went all in like them three years ago. I would gladly watch our team cut 6-7 unproductive, old and pretty much washed up players today, knowing that we would of had another Super Bowl. That's the difference between the Jets and us - the Jets were doomed from the start because they forgot the most important part....you can't go all in if you don't have a franchise quarterback. Even then, they almost made it to the Super Bowl - I have to think we would of won at least one more if we had taken that approach with Brady.

    The Jets huge mistake was resigning Sanchez - that was a real head scratcher - to me that was a ego move by Tannanbum and Rex. They wanted to prove they were right by selecting Sanchez as high as they did. What really would bother me if I were a Jet fan was the way Rex stood by Sanchez this season when a change should of been made - Rex put his ego ahead of the Jet's season last year. I would be outraged if I was a fan.

    I wonder if a guy like Calvin Pace would be a good fit here for cheap money?

     



    Did I miss the sarcaism of one of those two statements?

     

     




    No there is no sarcasm, there has been an on going argument regarding the salary cap for about three years now. Rusty was on the salary cap bandwagon before the lockout telling everyone on here that teams shouldn't spend because they will go into salary cap hell. The lockout came and went, yet nearly the entire league was in very very good salary cap position afterward. There were no drastic cuts of high profile free agents (like he said there would be) and there were no huge bargains to be had by teams that had not spent to the cap.

     

    The argument continued and continued...some believe the NFL salary cap is the most fluid thing in all of sports and you can spend, cut, restructure, trade yourself out of mistakes (like me). And some cry that it is a scary place that will destroy teams. I honestly can't remeber the last time a team went into "salary cap hell"...maybe the Ravens after their first Super Bowl win? They spent a year in salary cap hell, then they rebuilt it rather quickly and were in the thick of things for a decade.

    This is a very touchy subject by the way. I firmly believe that the NFL is the richest of all sports - this league can print their own money if they wanted to, that is how rich and powerful it is. There is nothing quite like an NFL tv contract - the owners are some of the richest and most powerful people on the planet or at least in this country...they control this salary cap. I believe that NFL owners are never ever going to do something that will hurt their business - "salary cap hell" or situations like it would hurt their business. With injuries like no other sport the salary cap needs to be a manipulated, increased and very fluid...and it is...the owners made it that way. Teams/owners need to compete to a certain degree - the salary cap in it's current design allows that. Just yesterday it was learned that the salary cap would  increase higher than anticipated, why? The owners looked around and decided they needed more money to run their business - they make the rules. I'm not saying as business men they think the cap should be 200 million, but they sure aren't going to stop signing players because their starting left tackle has a torn ACL and now all of a sudden they can't go out and field a team because of salary cap hell.

    If the cap goes up by 1 million, like it did yesterday, how much more can a team spend with that number with pro rated bonuses and a structured contract? Reasonably they can can stretch that 1 million into 3-5 million. The NFL is NOT like real life/business.

    As for Calvin Pace...he wouldn't make a good backup, spot starter in our 34 look?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    Just curious?

    What's the difference between the jest having to cut a number of players to get under the cap and the Pats situation.  There is a good chance none of the Pats high dollar free agents will not be cut, but not re-signed because of limited cap space. Same difference?

    Those players will ALSO have to be replaced if not re-signed, with a cheaper and probably not as good option.

    That money does not even come off the books as they are FA's.  They will have to spend $$.

    The Pats may have to replace or restructure some key players, too, as 18m to replace ~20 guys, with several of them being starters, is not great.

    So, who do the Pats trade or cut, in addition to losing some key FA's? 

    1, 10M guy or 3, 3m guys to create more cap?

    Who do they restructure to put the cap hit in 2014 or beyond?

    Something has to happen.  Right?

     

     



    No it is not the same difference.

     

    The Pats players they liked were able to play out  their contract at a "vlaue" the organization placed on them for their position. Whether or not they can reach a new deal with a player they wish to continue to keep at a "value" that still fits what they feel that player has to them is in question.

    The jets "cutting" a player means they had to cut a player they originally felt was of the value they signed them for as well as possibly still wanting to keep but had to make hard decisions because of salary cap reasons.

    Those are very different things.

     




    Well, that's something that is completely different,  besides Talib would not fall into that catagory being a half year rental that cost a pick.

     

    I'm talking about the $$$ it would take to re-sign or replace a lot of 1st and 2nd tier players.

    As it stands right now, the Pats don't have the $$$ to resign Talib, Welker and Vollmer, nevermind the Woody's and Edelmans and Ghost's in addition to that..

    They are going to have to let some, if not most of these guys go and replace them because they do not have the $$$ to resign all of them.

    That's no difference, except we are talking about not re-signing some as apposed to cutting them to have enough cap to re-sign some and replace others.

    If the Pats need to clear up and addition 10M to resign the ones they want to keep, they really have no choice but let others go, unless they can do it by restructuring.

    18M is not enough to replace 3 top tier guys and re-sign and, or replace  15 others.

    The jest got rid of some dead weight to produce cap.  Who do the Pats get rid of with significant savings, knowing they will also have to be replaced?

    Also, don't forget dead money.  The Pats are still paying for such" value" players as Ocho and several other "value" players that were cut.

    The truth is, both teams are going to have to let players go due to $$$$.

    What would you rather do, lose players you want to keep or dump some dead weight?

    I'd prefer not to lose the valuable, harder to replace, FA's, but that's just me.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    Well you were right - the Jets cut unproductive players and saved thirty million overnight. Kind of ruins this whole "salary cap hell" situation thing.

    This is what I'm probably going to regret saying...I wish we had went all in like them three years ago. I would gladly watch our team cut 6-7 unproductive, old and pretty much washed up players today, knowing that we would of had another Super Bowl. That's the difference between the Jets and us - the Jets were doomed from the start because they forgot the most important part....you can't go all in if you don't have a franchise quarterback. Even then, they almost made it to the Super Bowl - I have to think we would of won at least one more if we had taken that approach with Brady.

    The Jets huge mistake was resigning Sanchez - that was a real head scratcher - to me that was a ego move by Tannanbum and Rex. They wanted to prove they were right by selecting Sanchez as high as they did. What really would bother me if I were a Jet fan was the way Rex stood by Sanchez this season when a change should of been made - Rex put his ego ahead of the Jet's season last year. I would be outraged if I was a fan.

    I wonder if a guy like Calvin Pace would be a good fit here for cheap money?

     



    Did I miss the sarcaism of one of those two statements?

     

     




    No there is no sarcasm, there has been an on going argument regarding the salary cap for about three years now. Rusty was on the salary cap bandwagon before the lockout telling everyone on here that teams shouldn't spend because they will go into salary cap hell. The lockout came and went, yet nearly the entire league was in very very good salary cap position afterward. There were no drastic cuts of high profile free agents (like he said there would be) and there were no huge bargains to be had by teams that had not spent to the cap.

     

    The argument continued and continued...some believe the NFL salary cap is the most fluid thing in all of sports and you can spend, cut, restructure, trade yourself out of mistakes (like me). And some cry that it is a scary place that will destroy teams. I honestly can't remeber the last time a team went into "salary cap hell"...maybe the Ravens after their first Super Bowl win? They spent a year in salary cap hell, then they rebuilt it rather quickly and were in the thick of things for a decade.

    This is a very touchy subject by the way. I firmly believe that the NFL is the richest of all sports - this league can print their own money if they wanted to, that is how rich and powerful it is. There is nothing quite like an NFL tv contract - the owners are some of the richest and most powerful people on the planet or at least in this country...they control this salary cap. I believe that NFL owners are never ever going to do something that will hurt their business - "salary cap hell" or situations like it would hurt their business. With injuries like no other sport the salary cap needs to be a manipulated, increased and very fluid...and it is...the owners made it that way. Teams/owners need to compete to a certain degree - the salary cap in it's current design allows that. Just yesterday it was learned that the salary cap would  increase higher than anticipated, why? The owners looked around and decided they needed more money to run their business - they make the rules. I'm not saying as business men they think the cap should be 200 million, but they sure aren't going to stop signing players because their starting left tackle has a torn ACL and now all of a sudden they can't go out and field a team because of salary cap hell.

    If the cap goes up by 1 million, like it did yesterday, how much more can a team spend with that number with pro rated bonuses and a structured contract? Reasonably they can can stretch that 1 million into 3-5 million. The NFL is NOT like real life/business.

    As for Calvin Pace...he wouldn't make a good backup, spot starter in our 34 look?



    I was simply thinking those two statements are in direct conflict of each other.

    IF, Pace was let go because he was unproductive as you suggest then why would you want an unproductive player, even as a backup.

    That's the only reason I asked.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    Oh, I don't know? He's been hurt a lot so I can't say I recall him being much of anything for them, but he would come cheap I imagine. At 33, with his size, I figured maybe if there was someone out there that knew about him, could tell me if he could be a sub/roll type of guy. Listening to talk shows, most people say he was at least an average player for them. Truthfully he could always sign back with the jets for much less money, rather than take much less elsewhere and have to move.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    Just curious?

    What's the difference between the jest having to cut a number of players to get under the cap and the Pats situation.  There is a good chance none of the Pats high dollar free agents will not be cut, but not re-signed because of limited cap space. Same difference?

    Those players will ALSO have to be replaced if not re-signed, with a cheaper and probably not as good option.

    That money does not even come off the books as they are FA's.  They will have to spend $$.

    The Pats may have to replace or restructure some key players, too, as 18m to replace ~20 guys, with several of them being starters, is not great.

    So, who do the Pats trade or cut, in addition to losing some key FA's? 

    1, 10M guy or 3, 3m guys to create more cap?

    Who do they restructure to put the cap hit in 2014 or beyond?

    Something has to happen.  Right?

     

     



    No it is not the same difference.

     

    The Pats players they liked were able to play out  their contract at a "vlaue" the organization placed on them for their position. Whether or not they can reach a new deal with a player they wish to continue to keep at a "value" that still fits what they feel that player has to them is in question.

    The jets "cutting" a player means they had to cut a player they originally felt was of the value they signed them for as well as possibly still wanting to keep but had to make hard decisions because of salary cap reasons.

    Those are very different things.

     




    Well, that's something that is completely different,  besides Talib would not fall into that catagory being a half year rental that cost a pick.

     

    I'm talking about the $$$ it would take to re-sign or replace a lot of 1st and 2nd tier players.

    As it stands right now, the Pats don't have the $$$ to resign Talib, Welker and Vollmer, nevermind the Woody's and Edelmans and Ghost's in addition to that..

    They are going to have to let some, if not most of these guys go and replace them because they do not have the $$$ to resign all of them.

    That's no difference, except we are talking about not re-signing some as apposed to cutting them to have enough cap to re-sign some and replace others.

    If the Pats need to clear up and addition 10M to resign the ones they want to keep, they really have no choice but let others go, unless they can do it by restructuring.

    18M is not enough to replace 3 top tier guys and re-sign and, or replace  15 others.

    The jest got rid of some dead weight to produce cap.  Who do the Pats get rid of with significant savings, knowing they will also have to be replaced?

    Also, don't forget dead money.  The Pats are still paying for such" value" players as Ocho and several other "value" players that were cut.



    Well first I want to clear up something as I thought it might get confused.

    My "value" comment was not meant to suggest they got a discount signing in that sense of the word. My meaning is they set a value for a player/position. That is the "value" whether it turned out to be a value compared to how the player actually played was not my point.

    That is their fiscal philospohy, and it is sound.

    You are continuing to change from that premise however.

    Just focus on one player as to my point.

    Welker. They most likely want him but they have a figure(value) in mind to what he respresents at this point in time of his career as well as his projected role moving forwards in the next seasons perceived offensive vision.

    If Welkers $ demands do not fit that then he won't be here. I would say 90+% of the time the Ptriots to not clear space for others because they want to over reach or because they over reached in the past. (That admittdly is just finger in the air and I have no examples)

    In simplest terms I would argue that the amount they have available more than covers their perceived needs for the roles open to be filled using the "values" they have assigned to the positions.

    As far as Tlib, the rental, pick, etc. That is a whole other discussion.

    Now perhaps I misunderstood your original post but it seemd you were trying to say deciding whether to sign UFA's was the same as having to "cut" players still under contract.

    I still say they are very different.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: salary cap for Jets not so dire

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    I have to think we would of won at least one more if we had taken that approach with Brady.



    You should know better.  In 2007 we brought in Moss, Welker and Stallworth and gave out a huge contract to Adalius Thomas and we didn't win a SB.  Nothing is guaranteed in the NFL.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share