salary cap hell, huh?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    Relax guys! We are the youngest team in the league! Well mostly because free agents we bring are busts and guys we draft aren't very good and we make no attempt to resign them and therefore have to be replaced with draft picks or more undrafted free agents that are barely 22 years old, but who's paying attention?! Certainly not rusty, truechamp or muzzle. We dah best! Well until Brady can't single handily win those playoff games against better built teams, but once again...who's paying attention? Who cares? It's all good, losing is fun and we are all spoiled entitled fans that should do nothing but be happy about making the playoffs with a hall of fame QB...anything else is unrealistic.

    Hell, second round picks shouldn't be counted on to do anything, in fact I heard Lombardi was brought here to convince Belichick to skip the second round all together.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     

     

    It appears that the way to avoid having to cut your expensive, high-quality players is never to sign them at all and instead hire the rookies and stopgap veterans right from the beginning. 

    Either approach leaves you with a roster full of rookies and stopgap veterans.  The only difference is that if you hire the expensive, high-quality veterans you have them on your roster for a year or two . . . and maybe that's the year or two when you win a Super Bowl, kind of like the Ravens did . . .  Wink

     



    Sounds good, except the Ravens didn't really do any of that. 

    [/QUOTE]

    You weren't refering to the Ravens when you said the following?

    No matter how you slice it, if you lose your two starting OTs, your DT and a valuable TE, and you're replacing them with rookies or stopgap veterans, that's not good. I suspect they won't lose all of them, but we'll see. 

    Yes, they actually haven't lost all those players, but that was the example you gave.

     

    The main point, though, is that the recommended antidote for having to cut expensive quality players because of the salary cap is not hiring the expensive quality players in the first place.  Either approach leaves you with a roster full of rookies and stop-gap veterans.  The only difference is one approach means you have the expensive quality players for a year or two and the other approach means you never have them.  I'd say having them, if even for a short time, isn't a problem, especially if they make you competitive in the playoffs while they're on the team. 

    If you have to cut all your good players, you end up with mediocre talent.  But if you never hire the good players, you start out mediocre and just stay that way.  The second approach just gets you to mediocre faster, without the interim stage of being talented.

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    Relax guys! We are the youngest team in the league! Well mostly because free agents we bring are busts and guys we draft aren't very good and we make no attempt to resign them and therefore have to be replaced with draft picks or more undrafted free agents that are barely 22 years old, but who's paying attention?! Certainly not rusty, truechamp or muzzle. We dah best! Well until Brady can't single handily win those playoff games against better built teams, but once again...who's paying attention? Who cares? It's all good, losing is fun and we are all spoiled entitled fans that should do nothing but be happy about making the playoffs with a hall of fame QB...anything else is unrealistic.

    Hell, second round picks shouldn't be counted on to do anything, in fact I heard Lombardi was brought here to convince Belichick to skip the second round all together.


    You're right. What good is winning the most regular season games the last decade only to lose in the playoffs. What? The Patriots have also won the most playoff games the last decade? Damn, there goes that argument.

    Oh well. I wish we were more like those better built teams you keep talking about. What teams are those again?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    In response to digger0862's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Relax guys! We are the youngest team in the league! Well mostly because free agents we bring are busts and guys we draft aren't very good and we make no attempt to resign them and therefore have to be replaced with draft picks or more undrafted free agents that are barely 22 years old, but who's paying attention?! Certainly not rusty, truechamp or muzzle. We dah best! Well until Brady can't single handily win those playoff games against better built teams, but once again...who's paying attention? Who cares? It's all good, losing is fun and we are all spoiled entitled fans that should do nothing but be happy about making the playoffs with a hall of fame QB...anything else is unrealistic.

    Hell, second round picks shouldn't be counted on to do anything, in fact I heard Lombardi was brought here to convince Belichick to skip the second round all together.

     


    You're right. What good is winning the most regular season games the last decade only to lose in the playoffs. What? The Patriots have also won the most playoff games the last decade? Damn, there goes that argument.

    Oh well. I wish we were more like those better built teams you keep talking about. What teams are those again?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The ones that have won Super Bowls and beaten us in the playoffs...you want me to list them?

    And what argument did you win by proving we have lost every year in the playoffs for ten seasons? Let me guess, I'm spoiled and crazy to want to win another Super Bowl rather than watch my team get punched in the face by better teams in the playoffs? Here's those teams, Broncos, Ravens, Giants, Jets, Ravens, no playoffs, Giants, Colts, Broncos. Fun for you, right?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to digger0862's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Relax guys! We are the youngest team in the league! Well mostly because free agents we bring are busts and guys we draft aren't very good and we make no attempt to resign them and therefore have to be replaced with draft picks or more undrafted free agents that are barely 22 years old, but who's paying attention?! Certainly not rusty, truechamp or muzzle. We dah best! Well until Brady can't single handily win those playoff games against better built teams, but once again...who's paying attention? Who cares? It's all good, losing is fun and we are all spoiled entitled fans that should do nothing but be happy about making the playoffs with a hall of fame QB...anything else is unrealistic.

    Hell, second round picks shouldn't be counted on to do anything, in fact I heard Lombardi was brought here to convince Belichick to skip the second round all together.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]
    You're right. What good is winning the most regular season games the last decade only to lose in the playoffs. What? The Patriots have also won the most playoff games the last decade? Damn, there goes that argument.

    Oh well. I wish we were more like those better built teams you keep talking about. What teams are those again?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The ones that have won Super Bowls and beaten us in the playoffs...you want me to list them?

    And what argument did you win by proving we have lost every year in the playoffs for ten seasons? Let me guess, I'm spoiled and crazy to want to win another Super Bowl rather than watch my team get punched in the face by better teams in the playoffs? Here's those teams, Broncos, Ravens, Giants, Jets, Ravens, no playoffs, Giants, Colts, Broncos. Fun for you, right?

    [/QUOTE]

    There is only 1 winner in the NFL every year. Every other team is a loser. Every player, coach, GM and owner will say the exact same thing

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to digger0862's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Relax guys! We are the youngest team in the league! Well mostly because free agents we bring are busts and guys we draft aren't very good and we make no attempt to resign them and therefore have to be replaced with draft picks or more undrafted free agents that are barely 22 years old, but who's paying attention?! Certainly not rusty, truechamp or muzzle. We dah best! Well until Brady can't single handily win those playoff games against better built teams, but once again...who's paying attention? Who cares? It's all good, losing is fun and we are all spoiled entitled fans that should do nothing but be happy about making the playoffs with a hall of fame QB...anything else is unrealistic.

    Hell, second round picks shouldn't be counted on to do anything, in fact I heard Lombardi was brought here to convince Belichick to skip the second round all together.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]
    You're right. What good is winning the most regular season games the last decade only to lose in the playoffs. What? The Patriots have also won the most playoff games the last decade? Damn, there goes that argument.

    Oh well. I wish we were more like those better built teams you keep talking about. What teams are those again?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The ones that have won Super Bowls and beaten us in the playoffs...you want me to list them?

    And what argument did you win by proving we have lost every year in the playoffs for ten seasons? Let me guess, I'm spoiled and crazy to want to win another Super Bowl rather than watch my team get punched in the face by better teams in the playoffs? Here's those teams, Broncos, Ravens, Giants, Jets, Ravens, no playoffs, Giants, Colts, Broncos. Fun for you, right?

    [/QUOTE]

    There is only 1 winner in the NFL every year. Every other team is a loser. Every player, coach, GM and owner will say the exact same thing

    [/QUOTE]

    That is absolutely true, but there are only a handful of teams with a quarterback on it that gives them a clear advantage over everyone else...we are one of those teams. If we had Mallett behind center I'd be just thrilled with winning one playoff game, and stacking up regular season wins, but I expected more from this bunch over the last decade. Again, I guess I'm just spoiled, but the days of Mallett (or whoever) are not that far off in the distance....I'll be just giddy over winning the AFC east then.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Relax guys! We are the youngest team in the league! Well mostly because free agents we bring are busts and guys we draft aren't very good and we make no attempt to resign them and therefore have to be replaced with draft picks or more undrafted free agents that are barely 22 years old, but who's paying attention?! Certainly not rusty, truechamp or muzzle. We dah best! Well until Brady can't single handily win those playoff games against better built teams, but once again...who's paying attention? Who cares? It's all good, losing is fun and we are all spoiled entitled fans that should do nothing but be happy about making the playoffs with a hall of fame QB...anything else is unrealistic.

    Hell, second round picks shouldn't be counted on to do anything, in fact I heard Lombardi was brought here to convince Belichick to skip the second round all together.

    [/QUOTE]

    I love the T-Baller's mentality expressed by a handful of posters on this board.  No, it's not OK to just make the playoffs every year only to get embarrassed in the playoffs.  That's a loser's copout.

    These are the same guys who think they succeeded because their mothers made them go to the Eighth Grade dance.  Sorry to break this to you guys but the winners were the guys out back making out with the hot chicks.

    I gladly would trade 5 playoff appearances for 1 Championship.  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I gladly would trade 5 playoff appearances for 1 Championship.  

    [/QUOTE]

    exactly my thoughts. +1

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:


    There is only 1 winner in the NFL every year. Every other team is a loser. Every player, coach, GM and owner will say the exact same thing



    That is absolutely true, but there are only a handful of teams with a quarterback on it that gives them a clear advantage over everyone else...we are one of those teams. If we had Mallett behind center I'd be just thrilled with winning one playoff game, and stacking up regular season wins, but I expected more from this bunch over the last decade. Again, I guess I'm just spoiled, but the days of Mallett (or whoever) are not that far off in the distance....I'll be just giddy over winning the AFC east then.

    [/QUOTE]

    I am right there with you mthurl.  There have been wasted years, bad signings, not taking advantage of the HOF QB they have.  The window is closing... going into last season damn near broke me with the Pats relying on so much inexperience and question marks on offense that I was sure would be the downfall of the season. 

    They had some very bad breaks on a defense that looked promising at the beginning of the season only to fall with injuries, exposing the lack of depth and talent in certain positions to where they weren't able to get off the field towards the end of the season when it matter most.  Turning to a offense led by a HOF QB who has to carry a unproven, inexperienced offense faced with injuries and lack of depth of their own. Same ol story at the end... just not enough talent to get to the Championship to win it all.

    I just hope the Pats can get the talent they need to put together one more magical season before # 12 hangs up the cleats, and then for one period of time this board can all celebrate together, no arguments, no finger pointing, just fill the forum with nothing but praise and celebration threads.  Until then....  We will argue amongst ourselves about what it will take to get there.  The lives of obsessed sports fans. LOL!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I gladly would trade 5 playoff appearances for 1 Championship.  

    [/QUOTE]

    exactly my thoughts. +1

    [/QUOTE]


    5?  That is a lot.  Especially now.  With the best Head Coach, best owner and a HOF QB I expect playoffs every season and a SB every now and then.  Call me spoiled, I don't care.. those have been my expectations since the last SB win.  And why not, this team has the best HC, Owner and a HOF QB.  Now if this was a team rebuilding, starting from scratch, no HOF QB then yes, I would take 5 years of no playoff appearances to get a SB win.  But that's not the situation here, not at the present moment, thank goodness. The thing that is discouraging is that they are there every year and can't add a couple more pieces to finish the job.  That is the problem.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I gladly would trade 5 playoff appearances for 1 Championship.  

    [/QUOTE]

    exactly my thoughts. +1

    [/QUOTE]

    Bingo.

    How do we do that again? 

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bingo.

    How do we do that again? 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    well we keep doing what we do and maybe hope for an injury free season and better postseason offensive perfomances.

    oh and if we make the SB make sure TYree isnt on the opposing team lol.

    honestly, looking back I would trade in 2005, 2006, 2010, 2012 for the 2007 victory without a doubt.

    that would've made the Pats the greatest dynasty ever. 4 rings in 7 years, 19-0 season

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bingo.

    How do we do that again? 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    well we keep doing what we do and maybe hope for an injury free season and better postseason offensive perfomances.

    oh and if we make the SB make sure TYree isnt on the opposing team lol.

    honestly, looking back I would trade in 2005, 2006, 2010, 2012 for the 2007 victory without a doubt.

    that would've made the Pats the greatest dynasty ever. 4 rings in 7 years, 19-0 season

    [/QUOTE]

    Joe, the 1st part of your statement contradicts the premise. You are correct though, we were 1 play away from a 4rth, a 5th, and even 6th SB win if you count the colts afc rip-off game in 06.

    I think some of these guys are suggesting that if we spent more on bigger names in free agency and "went for it" we would somehow guarantee ourselves a super bowl win even if it mortgages some of our seasons amd playoff trips.

    To me getting to the playoffs every year gives you the highest odds of winning another SB. Like you said, no tyree catch, no nink off sides, asante samuel holds onto the ball, no ellis hobbs b.s face guarding call in the endzone on a prayer play and we have 6 super bowl championships in 13 years. Doesn't sound very broken to me.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    Who do you think are? You are rom Texas and live in California with no NE roots whatsoever.

    Who do you seriously think you are? Many waited 40 years for a championship here being fans since 1960.

    You have no business running your mouth in here like some hick loser from Texas who now lives in California demanding SB rings delivered to your house in some right wing nutjob neighborhood in the sticks.

    Go away, Bandwagon Pink Hat.

    LMAO! 

    I'm a Pats fan, been one for 14 years, probably just as big and even bigger Pats fan then many who have been since 1960.  Hell, probably many of them don't even care anymore.  And I find a loyalty speech pretty funny coming from a guy who didn't even attend the game live to support your team last season when they played in your backyard.  So you can take that soap box that you are standing on and shove it in one of two places.  Got it?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]

    Joe, the 1st part of your statement contradicts the premise.

    [/QUOTE]

    I know, I'm not necessarily agreeing with their whole spend spend spend premise I just agreed with that one Tcal statement of 5years of no playoffs for one more ring.

    A lot of unlucky breaks and bs has gone down to hold down our dynasty but we are in it every year thanks to a GOAT HC and GOAT QB as well.

    injuries the last three years has been the biggest stopper to a title imo (Gronk in 2011, 2012, everyone this year)

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    LMAO! 

    I'm a Pats fan, been one for 14 years,

    [/QUOTE]

    didn't we get good like 14 years ago?

    fishy.

    just wondering, why does rusty always call you a bandwagon? whats the story

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Who do you think are? You are rom Texas and live in California with no NE roots whatsoever.

    Who do you seriously think you are? Many waited 40 years for a championship here being fans since 1960.

    You have no business running your mouth in here like some hick loser from Texas who now lives in California demanding SB rings delivered to your house in some right wing nutjob neighborhood in the sticks.

    Go away, Bandwagon Pink Hat.

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    LMAO! 

    I'm a Pats fan, been one for 14 years, probably just as big and even bigger Pats fan then many who have been since 1960.  Hell, probably many of them don't even care anymore.  And I find a loyalty speech pretty funny coming from a guy who didn't even attend the game live to support your team last season when they played in your backyard.  So you can take that soap box that you are standing on and shove it in one of two places.  Got it?

    [/QUOTE]

    Nice!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    LMAO! 

    I'm a Pats fan, been one for 14 years,



    didn't we get good like 14 years ago?

    fishy.

    just wondering, why does rusty always call you a bandwagon? whats the story




    Weren't you born like 14 years ago?  Did you know what football was when the Pats won their first SB?  Are you really a true fan since you didn't cheer for them back in the 60's?  Fishy!

    Oh, and I was a fan when the Patriots were 5-11.  So no, they werent good when I started following them.  Nice try, though.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    I don't think the teams we've brought to the playoffs since the 2009 season have been all that good.  Great QB, great coaching, but serious holes in talent.  That's why we were embarassed at home by the Ravens in 2009, beaten at home by the Jets of all teams in 2010, nearly beaten at home by the Ravens in 2011 and then beaten by a mediocre Giants team in the Super Bowl, beaten badly at home by the Ravens in 2012, and beaten badly by the Broncos on the road last year. Now injuries have played a role just about every year, but this team has been vulnerable to key injuries because the talent just hasn't been good or deep in too many positions.  A few key injuries, and the team greatly declines in competitiveness. 

    Now I said at the beginning of last season that I thought the team was as talented as it had been since 2007.  I still feel that way.  I think we're finally on the upswing, especially on defense.  However, this doesn't mean we didn't have some holes in 2013 that came back to bite us.  There were two in particular:

    Interior defensive line.  Most of us knew we were vulnerable there.  Sure, Wilfork and Kelly were both good players.  But both are getting old.  Wilfork has been on the field for too many snaps in recent years because of the lack of talent around him.  Many of us were worried he was due to breakdown.  Relying on Kelly (also old) and Armstead (known health issues) seemed risky.  We can say it was bad luck that both Wilfork and Kelly were hurt and Armstead didn't play, but it wasn't just bad luck.  The risk was clear right at the beginning of the season and the risk materialized.  We didn't have a good insurance plan to protect against a fairly obvious risk.

    Similarly, we haven't done a good job building our WR corp.  This has been a problem since 2009 and we continue not to get it right.  With Gronk and Hern, we are fine because the TEs compensate for the lack of quality WRs.  But Hern was a character risk and Gronk an injury one and we had no back up plan for losing them.  Bad luck that Hern went to jail and Gronk got hurt for the third year in a row?  Maybe, but the risks were clear and they materialized and we had no back up plan.  We let Welker go, we didn't keep Lloyd, and we just had untested rookies, an injury prone free agent (who, surprise, got injured), and Edelman.  We left ourselves vulnerable and got burned.  Is that just bad luck or is it bad planning?  If you live on a mountainside in California and don't buy insurance against fires and mudslides is it just bad luck when you lose everything you own?  The risk was a known one, so maybe you should have bought insurance . . . 

    The secondary now seems to be coming together, but prior to last year it was a similar mess.  We never had a plan for replacing Asante Samuel.  On the D line we let Seymour go (maybe not a bad decision) but did we have a plan to rebuild with anything other than duct tape and paper clips?

    These decisions have their consequences and they've left us with teams that can make the playoffs, but aren't all that competitive once they are in, except against fairly lame teams (Tebow's Broncos, the Texans, the Colts).  I appreciate what the Pats have done, producing winning seasons year after year, but I also have not seen a team that going into the playoffs I felt very good about.  Last year's team without the injuries would have been an exception, but the injuries are part of the game and the positions where they hurt the most (DT and WR/TE) were positions where the risks were evident before the season started. Not addressing those risks adequately left us particularly vulnerable when the risks materialized. 

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Weren't you born like 14 years ago?  Did you know what football was when the Pats won their first SB?  Are you really a true fan since you didn't cheer for them back in the 60's?  Fishy!

     

    Oh, and I was a fan when the Patriots were 5-11.  So no, they werent good when I started following them.  Nice try, though.

    [/QUOTE]

    actually i do remember watching all the super bowls. die hard c's b's and sox fan too. born into it i had no choice.

    i got lucky growing up with so much success.

    I'm actually wondering what your story is just because its probably legit but rusty of course denies it

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: salary cap hell, huh?

    haha I gotchu Russ I know you've told me it but I want to hear TFB's side just to give him a say here

     

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