Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    i hope BB picks two d-lines with the 17th and 28th picks, get an OLB in the second round
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    tat,
    Here's my current take:

    Quinn- is probably off the board by 17, IMO.

    Von Miller- Is too small to play OLB in their scheme and looks like a sub package/pass rush specialist only type in their scheme.  Solid player, but probably not a good fit for them.  I also think he could be off the board by 17.

    Ayers- A lot of mixed reviews out there.  I think the consensus is the kid has all the tools and shows an excellent size/speed/athleticism combo, but may not be a difference maker.  Personally, I wasn't impressed when I say him play.

    Kerrigan- Is a guy that I've been on since week 1 of the college season.  He's definitely a "Patriot Type", IMO.  Good size 6-4 255, big motor, smart kid that makes a ton of plays behind the LOS.  He's not the best athlete and their are questions about his ability to transition to the 3-4 OLB position.  I'll be interested to see his triangle numbers and how he operates in space at the combine.

    Smith- I haven't see him play, but word is the kid is extremely athletic, but a bit raw.  I'll have to research him further, but on the surface is a kid that looks like a possiblity.  There's also been talk about him going before 17.

    Jordan- Is a kid that I'm big on.  Not sure I see him playing OLB as he's nearly 290 pounds, but he does look like a big strong, quick, athletic and versatile lineman (scheme diverse with the ability to play both 3-4  and 4-3 alignments) that could impact up front.  He also has good bloodlines as his father Steve was pro-bowl TE with the Vikings.

    My pick for the OLB position is Brooks Reed 6-3 357 from Arizona.  I've written a lot about him since seeing him play for the first time on Nov 6 against Stanford, but this kid is legit, IMO.  Could have the best motor in this class, great first step/burst of the snap, violent hands, good quicks.  He also looked pretty good standing up during SB practice.  I think they target him in Rd 2-3.

    Another kid I like is:

    Thomas Keiser (6-5 250) from Stanford- Has the size that BB looks for, new to the position after moving from DE when Stanford moved to the 3-4 but had a solid first year with 5.5 sacks and 9.5 TFL.  Smart kid and brings it on every down.  He does provide some scheme versatility if they run some 4-3 sub-packages as he was a 1st Team Freshman All-American at DE in 2008 with 6 sacks and 7 TFL and followed that up with 8 sacks and 15 TFL in 2009.  I look forward to researching this kid further to get a better read on his first step and ability to operate in space/coverage. He's probably a Rd 3-4 kid.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    "My pick for the OLB position is Brooks Reed 6-3 357 from Arizona."

    I think you meant 6-3 257.  Although I'd love to see a 357 lb dude try to play LB
    Cool
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsfan038. Show Patsfan038's posts

    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    In Response to Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick:
    [QUOTE]tat, Here's my current take: Quinn- is probably off the board by 17, IMO. Von Miller- Is too small to play OLB in their scheme and looks like a sub package/pass rush specialist only type in their scheme.  Solid player, but probably not a good fit for them.  I also think he could be off the board by 17. Ayers- A lot of mixed reviews out there.  I think the consensus is the kid has all the tools and shows an excellent size/speed/athleticism combo, but may not be a difference maker.  Personally, I wasn't impressed when I say him play. Kerrigan- Is a guy that I've been on since week 1 of the college season.  He's definitely a "Patriot Type", IMO.  Good size 6-4 255, big motor, smart kid that makes a ton of plays behind the LOS.  He's not the best athlete and their are questions about his ability to transition to the 3-4 OLB position.  I'll be interested to see his triangle numbers and how he operates in space at the combine. Smith- I haven't see him play, but word is the kid is extremely athletic, but a bit raw.  I'll have to research him further, but on the surface is a kid that looks like a possiblity.  There's also been talk about him going before 17. Jordan- Is a kid that I'm big on.  Not sure I see him playing OLB as he's nearly 290 pounds, but he does look like a big strong, quick, athletic and versatile lineman (scheme diverse with the ability to play both 3-4  and 4-3 alignments) that could impact up front.  He also has good bloodlines as his father Steve was pro-bowl TE with the Vikings. My pick for the OLB position is Brooks Reed 6-3 357 from Arizona.  I've written a lot about him since seeing him play for the first time on Nov 6 against Stanford, but this kid is legit, IMO.  Could have the best motor in this class, great first step/burst of the snap, violent hands, good quicks.  He also looked pretty good standing up during SB practice.  I think they target him in Rd 2-3. Another kid I like is: Thomas Keiser (6-5 250) from Stanford- Has the size that BB looks for, new to the position after moving from DE when Stanford moved to the 3-4 but had a solid first year with 5.5 sacks and 9.5 TFL.  Smart kid and brings it on every down.  He does provide some scheme versatility if they run some 4-3 sub-packages as he was a 1st Team Freshman All-American at DE in 2008 with 6 sacks and 7 TFL and followed that up with 8 sacks and 15 TFL in 2009.  I look forward to researching this kid further to get a better read on his first step and ability to operate in space/coverage. He's probably a Rd 3-4 kid.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]


    "My pick for the OLB position is Brooks Reed 6-3 357 from Arizona."
    You probably ment 257 and not 357, but it will be awesome to see a 357 lb OLB, dropping into coverage!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tagandtrade. Show tagandtrade's posts

    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    In Response to Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick:
    [QUOTE]tat, Here's my current take: Quinn- is probably off the board by 17, IMO. Von Miller- Is too small to play OLB in their scheme and looks like a sub package/pass rush specialist only type in their scheme.  Solid player, but probably not a good fit for them.  I also think he could be off the board by 17. Ayers- A lot of mixed reviews out there.  I think the consensus is the kid has all the tools and shows an excellent size/speed/athleticism combo, but may not be a difference maker.  Personally, I wasn't impressed when I say him play. Kerrigan- Is a guy that I've been on since week 1 of the college season.  He's definitely a "Patriot Type", IMO.  Good size 6-4 255, big motor, smart kid that makes a ton of plays behind the LOS.  He's not the best athlete and their are questions about his ability to transition to the 3-4 OLB position.  I'll be interested to see his triangle numbers and how he operates in space at the combine. Smith- I haven't see him play, but word is the kid is extremely athletic, but a bit raw.  I'll have to research him further, but on the surface is a kid that looks like a possiblity.  There's also been talk about him going before 17. Jordan- Is a kid that I'm big on.  Not sure I see him playing OLB as he's nearly 290 pounds, but he does look like a big strong, quick, athletic and versatile lineman (scheme diverse with the ability to play both 3-4  and 4-3 alignments) that could impact up front.  He also has good bloodlines as his father Steve was pro-bowl TE with the Vikings. My pick for the OLB position is Brooks Reed 6-3 357 from Arizona.  I've written a lot about him since seeing him play for the first time on Nov 6 against Stanford, but this kid is legit, IMO.  Could have the best motor in this class, great first step/burst of the snap, violent hands, good quicks.  He also looked pretty good standing up during SB practice.  I think they target him in Rd 2-3. Another kid I like is: Thomas Keiser (6-5 250) from Stanford- Has the size that BB looks for, new to the position after moving from DE when Stanford moved to the 3-4 but had a solid first year with 5.5 sacks and 9.5 TFL.  Smart kid and brings it on every down.  He does provide some scheme versatility if they run some 4-3 sub-packages as he was a 1st Team Freshman All-American at DE in 2008 with 6 sacks and 7 TFL and followed that up with 8 sacks and 15 TFL in 2009.  I look forward to researching this kid further to get a better read on his first step and ability to operate in space/coverage. He's probably a Rd 3-4 kid.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    I am concerned about Kerrigan's ability to rush on the outside because he does not have ideal speed for a rushing tweener... unless he has uncany strength and Leverage like James Harrison I think the jury is still out on him being successful in our system.

    If Von Miller drops because of SIZE alone i hope BB takes him, because i am sure he can gain 15 pounds just like Mayo did.

    I am going to check out those cats you just mentioned, the standord kid sounds promissing because he already made the move well
     
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    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    In Response to Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick:
    [QUOTE]"My pick for the OLB position is Brooks Reed 6-3 357 from Arizona." I think you meant 6-3 257.  Although I'd love to see a 357 lb dude try to play LB
    Posted by siestafiesta[/QUOTE]

    Ha, yeah, 257.  Sure woulda be interesting to see Gilbert Brown run around in space.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    Miller has a great Senior Bowl and will probably wow scouts at the combine.  Regardless of his weight he'll probably go high.  Looks to fit a 4-3 better than a 3-4.  Pat fans won't have to worry about him being around 17 to cloud the issue.

    Playing at DE is Jordan who can not be blocked one on one.  It's going to take two.  Another player who a lot of folks were talking about that I didn't think would be there for the Pats.  To bad.  Scratch one off the wish list.
     
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    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    In Response to Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick : I am concerned about Kerrigan's ability to rush on the outside because he does not have ideal speed for a rushing tweener... unless he has uncany strength and Leverage like James Harrison I think the jury is still out on him being successful in our system. If Von Miller drops because of SIZE alone i hope BB takes him, because i am sure he can gain 15 pounds just like Mayo did. I am going to check out those cats you just mentioned, the standord kid sounds promissing because he already made the move well
    Posted by tagandtrade[/QUOTE]


    I'll be curious to see how Kerrigan tests out at the combine in regards to his 10 yard split and triangle numbers. 

    Sure speed is a valuable trait, but it's not everything. I don't think Miller will fall due to size as a 4-3 would be more than happy to have him.

    I don't remember Mayo having to gain 15 pounds.  He was 6012 242 at the 2008 combine and is listed at 6-1 245 today.  He may have put on weight between freshman and junior year but it's not like he was drafted at 230 and is now 245.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    i would be fine if we managed to get von miller, houston, or Brooks Reed.  I still think one of our biggest needs is DE though.  watts and/or wilkerson would amazing.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from townie68. Show townie68's posts

    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    Sam Acho DE from Texas had a good Senior Bowl and looks like an OLB. He isn't a first rounder but could be a value on the second day. He has decent size at 6-3 260 and had 8 sacks this past season.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from kebbe. Show kebbe's posts

    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    Of the the OLB's frenquently mentioned in this forum it would be terrific if the Pats land one or two(preferably two) of these OLB's:Reed,Smith,Houston or Acho in the 2nd or 3rd round.I love Kerrigan's constant effort but I do question how we would perform in space,picking up a back or tight end in coverage.You can forget Miller unless the Pats trade up,way up and probably Ayers and Quinn as well,neither of whom I'd trade up to get due primarily to different attitude questions(though both are physically talented).Biele and Keiser,both flying under the radar and with geat motors but perhaps not as physically gifted,in terms of speed,quickness and the ability to drop into coverage,as the others.  
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    Quinn needs work technique wise. The guy has a great burst but he alone uses his speed to beat them if were taking a pass rusher I want someone with an array of moves aka Justin Houston.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    The way I'm looking a it the first 3-4 rounds should focuses entirely on the OL and the front 7.

    I'm huge on defense and would rather see the team back in the top 10 again then being the #1 scoring O again.

    Under that I'm thinking if they can grab either Smith or Kerrigan at #17, at #28 Wisniewski, Wilkerson at #33, #60 take Sands, at #74 take Reed, and at #92 take Gilbert.

    Then resign G Warren and getting back Wright and T Warren we would have a killer front 7 that puts us back into a top 10 D again and replaces either Mankins or Neal with Wisniewski (depending on if Mankins resigns) while you find a long term one next season or a good project like Rackley later in the draft moving Wisniewski to C after Koppens contract is up. It also lets you move Vollmer to LT and Gilbert can take over for Kaczur half way through the season at RT.

    Drool fantasy draft for me but I know it wouldn't happen. I think it would set us up for years though
     
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    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    In Response to Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick : I am concerned about Kerrigan's ability to rush on the outside because he does not have ideal speed for a rushing tweener... unless he has uncany strength and Leverage like James Harrison I think the jury is still out on him being successful in our system. If Von Miller drops because of SIZE alone i hope BB takes him, because i am sure he can gain 15 pounds just like Mayo did. I am going to check out those cats you just mentioned, the standord kid sounds promissing because he already made the move well
    Posted by tagandtrade[/QUOTE]
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jader. Show jader's posts

    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    not to worry! BB will trade out of #17, #28 and maybe #33. He want 40 players from rd 4 and beyond
     
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    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    Pats should move up to get Von Miller. He's a 3 down OLB. He is a difference maker. He will be a perrenial pro bowler. Size issue??? He's the same size as Lawerence Taylor. Speed, speed, speed. He explodes into the QB. He runs down fast running backs on the opposite side of the field. Phenomenal balance. Drops into coverage well. A talent that comes once a generation. IMO, he's worth the 17th, and 28th pick. Lofty praise, I know. Give this talent to coach Bill, and see what happens. Very well could be the next LT. Who was LT's defensive coordinator during his prime years with Giants?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tagandtrade. Show tagandtrade's posts

    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    In Response to Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick : I'll be curious to see how Kerrigan tests out at the combine in regards to his 10 yard split and triangle numbers. 

    True those are the biggest tests for this type of player, but the blazing speed would not hurt if he had a mean first step he could get around the edge before the tackle positions himself to seal the pocket... You are right though speed is not everything at this position.

    Sure speed is a valuable trait, but it's not everything. I don't think Miller will fall due to size as a 4-3 would be more than happy to have him. I don't remember Mayo having to gain 15 pounds. 

    When he was first mocked on this board and others he was 230
    http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jerod-mayo?id=776
    Before Combine: Hgt: 6021, Wgt: 230, 40YD: 4.59-4.67-4.78 ... 01/05/11 - LB Jerod Mayo led the NFL with a career-high 193 tackles in 2010 and also had two ...

    You are right as usual because draftscout.com updated the post combine #'s and he weight in the 240's...

    Why I relied on ESPN or NFL.com is beyond me
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    In Response to Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick:
    [QUOTE]Pats should move up to get Von Miller. He's a 3 down OLB. He is a difference maker. He will be a perrenial pro bowler. Size issue??? He's the same size as Lawerence Taylor. Speed, speed, speed. He explodes into the QB. He runs down fast running backs on the opposite side of the field. Phenomenal balance. Drops into coverage well. A talent that comes once a generation. IMO, he's worth the 17th, and 28th pick. Lofty praise, I know. Give this talent to coach Bill, and see what happens. Very well could be the next LT. Who was LT's defensive coordinator during his prime years with Giants?
    Posted by westga[/QUOTE]

    Von Miller is projected as a top 10 if not a top 5. Teams that could take him ahead of us Car #1, Bills #3, Ari #5, Clev #6, SF #7, Tenn #8, Minn #12, Det #13, Stl #15

    Now that's on heck of a 3-8 that could use a OLB like him and many have other needs that can be filled by some of the top talents in the draft. So if you want to grab him you'll have to jump ahead of whoever is going to take him and pay a bundle to do it. Since you have no clue who that is the best bet is to take him you'll want to go as high as #5 with Ari and get ahead of the pack. Now if there is a rookie cap the draft value chart is thrown out of the window as those higher picks are much more valuable but for right now it's a good judge of a trade. #5 is worth 1,700, #17 is worth 950 and #28 is worth 660 so you'd be about 100 short or about a 2nd next year or our 3rd this year. But, provided there is a rookie cap that extra pick would most likely become our 2nd with those 1st. Now if he makes it through the top 10 to get to #11 or #12 #17 and #33 would most likely get it done.

    But there is something you should consider  well before trading any number of picks for 1 player. In the 1st and 2nd when the Pats have drafted for the front 7 or OL not including 10' draft they are 8-10. To me they only really missed on Klemm and I would consider Hill and Brace half misses because well Hill showed potential but sadly his life was taken to soon and Brace has also been a solid rotational player but needs improvement. The jury is still out on Spikes and Cunningham but it looking good right now. Not to mention that of those 5 were pro-bowlers with Warren who many considered should have been. Vollmer is also looking good to make his way to a pro-bowl if given a chance to play LT. I would say that a 50/50 shot at a Pro-bowler in the front 7 or OL players with some good G's and front 7 players in this draft is more valuable then a single player. Why trade multiple picks when you have over a 80% shot of getting a starter with any of those picks?

    (Pro-Bowlers: Seymour 1st, Light 2nd, Wilfork 1st, Mankins 1st, Mayo 1st  Misses: Klemm 2nd Half Misses: Hill 2nd due to death RIP, Brace)




     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from cbdam. Show cbdam's posts

    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    In Response to Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick:
    [QUOTE]The way I'm looking a it the first 3-4 rounds should focuses entirely on the OL and the front 7. I'm huge on defense and would rather see the team back in the top 10 again then being the #1 scoring O again. Under that I'm thinking if they can grab either Smith or Kerrigan at #17, at #28 Wisniewski, Wilkerson at #33, #60 take Sands, at #74 take Reed, and at #92 take Gilbert. Then resign G Warren and getting back Wright and T Warren we would have a killer front 7 that puts us back into a top 10 D again and replaces either Mankins or Neal with Wisniewski (depending on if Mankins resigns) while you find a long term one next season or a good project like Rackley later in the draft moving Wisniewski to C after Koppens contract is up. It also lets you move Vollmer to LT and Gilbert can take over for Kaczur half way through the season at RT. Drool fantasy draft for me but I know it wouldn't happen. I think it would set us up for years though
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    patseng,
       some of the draft pros have winiewski going before 28 and smith going before 17.

      mb, if we get reed in 3rd or late 2nd, who you got at 17, 28, 33?

     
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    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    In Response to Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick:
    [QUOTE]Pats should move up to get Von Miller. He's a 3 down OLB. He is a difference maker. He will be a perrenial pro bowler. Size issue??? He's the same size as Lawerence Taylor. Speed, speed, speed. He explodes into the QB. He runs down fast running backs on the opposite side of the field. Phenomenal balance. Drops into coverage well. A talent that comes once a generation. IMO, he's worth the 17th, and 28th pick. Lofty praise, I know. Give this talent to coach Bill, and see what happens. Very well could be the next LT. Who was LT's defensive coordinator during his prime years with Giants?
    Posted by westga[/QUOTE]

    Von Miller is not a 3 down LB in BB's 3-4 scheme, he'd get mauled in the run game.

    Von Miller is a situational pass rusher/sub package guy in NE's 3-4.

    I'll disagree with your opinion, he's not worth 17 and 28.  See point one and two.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from westga. Show westga's posts

    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    Normally, I would agree. Not this time though. Miller is a rare talent. Not just All Pro talent, but MVP type skills. A game changer. The Pats have stockpiled solid young players, now is the time to get the special player. The player that will propel them to championships.
     
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    In Response to Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick : patseng,    some of the draft pros have winiewski going before 28 and smith going before 17.   mb, if we get reed in 3rd or late 2nd, who you got at 17, 28, 33?
    Posted by cbdam[/QUOTE]

    This is true but some also don't. I pefer to look at ranges. Most believe Smith will fall into the 8-18 range so the likely hood of Smith falling to the Pats isn't great but still exists. For Wisniewski most have him falling into the 25-40 range which put the Pats right up front to grab him. Most also have Kerrigan falling between 13-25 so again the Pats seem in a good spot to land at least 1 of if not 2 of those 3 with the first 2 picks. Even up to the hour of the draft I usually found the best way to judge where a player is going to fall is take the best 10 sources (right now before the combine I only trust 6) and throw out the earliest and the lastest then you can figure about where that players range is and where abouts he'll fall depending on needs of teams in or around that range
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from tagandtrade. Show tagandtrade's posts

    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    Aldon Smith looks like he would be the most practical pick for the patriots system. His frame is pretty interesting, he has girth and thickness with a huge wing span but he is not very wide (shoulder to shoulder).

    I think this is a benefit as his narrow physique allows him to knife in on the run and bend around the edge.

    Looks like he did his best work twisting and stunting up the middle
     
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    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    In Response to Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick : Von Miller is not a 3 down LB in BB's 3-4 scheme, he'd get mauled in the run game. Von Miller is a situational pass rusher/sub package guy in NE's 3-4. I'll disagree with your opinion, he's not worth 17 and 28.  See point one and two.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    Agreed. Von Miller looks more like a Jerry Hughes type to me.  Looks great, might work, but I am not sure it's worth the risk, especially in a 3-4 that is predicated on Run D first.

    BB does not botch 1st rd picks.  He's usually conservative and will likely be seeking out the character/intelligence factors yet again for the D Line slot.

    How these guys interview, their background and projected upsides will be huge in deciding on taking the OLB position at 17, I think.

    This is why I think Kerrigan fits the best for any OLB choice at 17.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ShiningWizard. Show ShiningWizard's posts

    Re: Scouting OLB for the 17th pick

    I'd like to throw Jeremy Beal's name into the mix.  He's got ideal size for the position at 6'3 267lbs and is a very instinctive player.  Probably the best all around prospect at OLB for 3-4 teams.  He's got a great motor and is very strong at the point of attack.  Although he's not an elite pass rusher with a wide array of moves like V. Miller or Quinn, he can collapse a pocket in a hurray and sets the edge in the running game with his power and strength.  What impresses me most though is his ability to drop back into coverage and play in space.  He's got very fluid hips and good closing speed.  Guys like Aldon Smith, Robert Quinn and Von Miller may get more hype, but Beal could have more impact right away because there's less of learning curve with him.  He's coming into the league having already played primarily out of a 2 pt stance as on OLB.  However, he adds value in that he could play on 3rd down as DE in a nickel sub package. 
     

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